Sniping needs to be balanced

[wolfstriked 143]

Just reduce the ranges as it is a game and leveling the playing field is needed and makes for a funner time.Getting in close and sniping....yes you now need to get closer but you will still have the advantage against non-snipers.The variable zoom scopes should go IMO as its a game and we need to make some errs in realism to allow people to run around in fear of infected and not just fear of far away snipers on rooftops.I do like different scope magnifications for different scopes though.

Edited December 11, 2012 by wolfstriked

[Larry F 29]

But they also make a very loud noise and attract like 100 more zombies, this combined with the ammo being rare makes it okay in my opinion. But i personally think the sniping should be like on ACE where you need to manually adjust the scope according to the range of the target and strength of the wind. I think something like this would add a nice learning curve to sniping in game, meaning more people would stray away from it. Thats my opinion anyways :P

[‮spacecaps 101]

Zombies aren't a challenge. I'm sniping people with Lee Enfield (a "dinnerbell") from any rooftop and I don't give a fuck about them.

Regarding .50 vs smaller caliber sniper rifles: why M107 and AS50 are compatible with a backpack? There were times when this wasn't the case. You had to choose between backpack and M107 (and AS50/AS50 TWS couldn't be obtained legitimately since helicrashes were broken). IMO this was awesome and balanced. Today the choice between M24 and M107 isn't really a choice, in terms of effectiveness. You just recieve a better gun for free; that's a poor design decision I suppose.

Edited December 11, 2012 by KizUrazgubi

[Dreygar (DayZ) 178]

Just reduce the ranges as it is a game and leveling the playing field is needed and makes for a funner time.Getting in close and sniping....yes you now need to get closer but you will still have the advantage against non-snipers.The variable zoom scopes should go IMO as its a game and we need to make some errs in realism to allow people to run around in fear of infected and not just fear of far away snipers on rooftops.I do like different scope magnifications for different scopes though.

Not to sound cliche but if you think this game is about balancing and leveling the playing field.. then I feel you are playing the wrong game.

[Dreygar (DayZ) 178]

Zombies aren't a challenge. I'm sniping people with Lee Enfield (a "dinnerbell") from any rooftop and I don't give a fuck about them.

Regarding .50 vs smaller caliber sniper rifles: why M107 and AS50 are compatible with a backpack? There were times when this wasn't the case. You had to choose between backpack and M107 (and AS50/AS50 TWS couldn't be obtained legitimately since helicrashes were broken). IMO this was awesome and balanced. Today the choice between M24 and M107 isn't really a choice, in terms of effectiveness. You just recieve a better gun for free; that's a poor design decision I suppose.

People never cease to amaze me. They think the solution to everything is to remove features or tweak them to their liking. I think choosing between a backpack and an M107 is pretty retarded, as realistically you can have both, so I am glad you can in the game. You're right though that some choices are a no brainer, but in terms of using an M24 over an M107 currently the M107 wins. Though if the sounds of the M107 were fixed then there would be some pretty distinct differences, that being sound signature.

Which brings up another thing. Sounds in the game need to be fixed, along with Zombies awareness. (Not making them faster/hit harder as some would suggest) If you're on a rooftop, shooting your dinnerbell.. Zombies shouldn't climb ladders but they should advance to your location via the sound. At that point they should pick up on your SCENT... and never leave the location. You might have a hoarde of zombies. So great, you just trapped yourself with no way out. THAT, is how it should be treated.

Same with a sniper in the hills, zombies should investigate the sound... causing the sniper to move... If they are within scent... they will investigate that... Snipers will never be able to sit in one location.

[‮spacecaps 101]

People never cease to amaze me. They think the solution to everything is to remove features or tweak them to their liking. I think choosing between a backpack and an M107 is pretty retarded, as realistically you can have both, so I am glad you can in the game.

Well, when the realism conflicts with balance, I'm choosing balance. Cutting features obviously isn't the only solution, but adding features that make the choice non-existent (ALICE vs Czech packs, .50 vs anything else) isn't helping either. In fact it's opposite and it needs to be balanced. Inability to wear backpack and to use M107 at the same time made M107 a specialized weapon and created a new feature, contributing to game diversity. Killing this specialization didn't introduce anything new into the game. I realize that it's just my opinion, of course.

Not to sound cliche but if you think this game is about balancing and leveling the playing field.. then I feel you are playing the wrong game.

Why not? This is an objective of any sane game design, and DayZ already did a lot in this direction. It's a game, not reality. Many things that are essential IRL would be just plain boring in a game. By the way, Namalsk did an awesome job with its coldness in balancing the sniping (and any camping in general), and I think this is far more interesting, hardcore and survival-centric than the situation in Chernarus.

Edited December 12, 2012 by KizUrazgubi

[Agent 42 0]

Couple things to be used to balance snipers

1) Recoil, almost non-existant when sniping.

2)Possibility of being scope bit (

) when firing too fast, would cause you to unscope/cause shakes due to pain

3) Vapor trails, and no I am not talking lines of smoke through the sky, but the real kind of vapor trails. It would just be a line of distortion in the air. Would only affect 776 and higher.

Those are all you can do. Everything else is tactics on your end.

Tactics to avoid being shot

1) Do NOT drop and crawl in a field when being shot at, just gives the sniper more time to line up a second shot, just run like hell to the nearest cover.

2) Cover, not bushes, COVER. Get some concrete inbetween you and that 50. cal.

3) Leapfrogging, when you have two people being fired on, have one spray in the snipers location with a high rof weapon, other runs, the one who ran sprays, etc.

4) Zombies, pay attention to them.

[Dreygar (DayZ) 178]

Well, when the realism conflicts with balance, I'm choosing balance. Cutting features obviously isn't the only solution, but adding features that make the choice non-existent (ALICE vs Czech packs, .50 vs anything else) isn't helping either. In fact it's opposite and it's need to be balanced. Inability to wear backpack and to use M107 at the same time made M107 a specialized weapon and created a new feature, contributing to game diversity. Killing this specialization didn't introduce anything new into the game. I realize that it's just my opinion, of course :)

Why not? This is an objective of any sane game design, and DayZ already did a lot in this direction. By the way, Namalsk did an awesome job in that with its coldness. It actually helped balancing the sniping (and any camping in general), and in my opinion this is far more interesting than the situation in Chernarus.

Namalsk is a horrible map, and that is my opinion. Rocket has a vision for the game, and he does not want to sacrifice that vision to cater to anyone; that is the beauty of this indie-type development compared to big game developers who just care about profit.

Day Z became popular because of its diversity and difficulty in its approach, so obviously that has some meaning. It might not be an 11 million subscriber like WoW, but who cares.

An M107 has purpose in the game, it is a great anti-vehicle weapon and can be used against personnel.

[‮spacecaps 101]

have one spray in the snipers location with a high rof weapon

By the way, rate of fire doesn't mean much in ARMA as it does in real life. IRL high RoF is almost always better than a precise shot, for lots of different reasons. In the game, you don't need the balls of steel to risk your life under the inaccurate fire. While the tactics itself is good (have one guy distracting the sniper), in DayZ reality the sniper will just shoot you while you're trying to spray your 7.62s. In ARMA, a single precise shot is almost always better than spraying, that's why many people choose Lee Enfield over AK or M16.

[Dreygar (DayZ) 178]

Couple things to be used to balance snipers

1) Recoil, almost non-existant when sniping.

You can't post a video of a moron shooting a .50 caliber sniper rifle and think that is how recoil works. He is firing from an unsupported prone position, for one. M107 uses a Bipod which pretty much eliminates all recoil when fired from prone. Secondly he's a wimp.

[dekartz 315]

By the way, rate of fire doesn't mean much in ARMA as it does in real life. IRL high RoF is almost always better than a precise shot, for lots of different reasons. In the game, you don't need the balls of steel to risk your life under the inaccurate fire. While the tactics itself is good (have one guy distracting the sniper), in DayZ reality the sniper will just shoot you while you're trying to spray your 7.62s. In ARMA, a single precise shot is almost always better than spraying, that's why many people choose Lee Enfield over AK or M16.

Wat. A single precise shot tends to always be better than spraying. Real life or otherwise. Especially when you take into ammo management into consideration.

[Dreygar (DayZ) 178]

Wat. A single precise shot tends to always be better than spraying. Real life or otherwise. Especially when you take into ammo management into consideration.

I think he's speaking in terms of range. A sniper in Arma really isn't going to care that you're putting down supressive fire and will probably take you out... Where as taking precise aim shots at the sniper will cause a better reaction.

[dekartz 315]

I think he's speaking in terms of range. A sniper in Arma really isn't going to care that you're putting down supressive fire and will probably take you out... Where as taking precise aim shots at the sniper will cause a better reaction.

Ah, that makes more sense. And generally suppressive fire only really works when you have a team that's suppressing and moving to different vantage points.

[Agent 42 0]

You can't post a video of a moron shooting a .50 caliber sniper rifle and think that is how recoil works. He is firing from an unsupported prone position, for one. M107 uses a Bipod which pretty much eliminates all recoil when fired from prone. Secondly he's a wimp.

The video was not for recoil, it was to show what being scope bit is.

[Jony_RocketInMyPocket 172]

Snipers in theory are pretty balanced as is. The problem is with duping. When every 12 year old and his mother has an M107, then you're gonna have a bad time.

[Dreygar (DayZ) 178]

The video was not for recoil, it was to show what being scope bit is.

Being "scope bit" happens to morons. I've seen it happen with stupid people shooting M16s even with the carrying handle smacking them in the face. It's because improper technique. Wouldn't like this feature to happen in a game.

[‮spacecaps 101]

Snipers in theory are pretty balanced as is. The problem is with duping. When every 12 year old and his mother has an M107, then you're gonna have a bad time.

Another problem is that it's hard to not to find an AS50 after a couple hours of wandering around Stary Sobor, because of the shared hive and 4-hour server restart schedule. And it's quite easy to find a camp with a spare .50 by running along the map border.

In practice, M24 is the rarest sniper rifle in the game, I love it and I usually can't find one.

Edited December 12, 2012 by KizUrazgubi

[doodleisbrutal 33]

in my opinion i was really angry when bf3 added reflecting scopes, it was to easy to get killed as a sniper, even when you were in the dark with no lights you would see it, i highly doubt its realistic as well.

[Agent 42 0]

Being "scope bit" happens to morons. I've seen it happen with stupid people shooting M16s even with the carrying handle smacking them in the face. It's because improper technique. Wouldn't like this feature to happen in a game.

Yeah, but I hope Dayz SA will have some sort of experience feature. No man would be able to pick up a 50. cal, zero it, and snipe people from 1000 meters in real life with no prior experience. Being scope bit happens if you are inexperienced, etc.

[032125 (DayZ) 91]

First of all, there is no balance in DayZ. Dean just reiterated this in an interview yesterday; so balance arguments are right out the window.

Second, DayZ is absolutely biased towards external knowledge. Again, Dean has pointed this out numerous times; the classic example being that the stars in the skybox are accurate (to Eastern Europe apparently, Orion sits differently from where I sit) and anyone with a knowlege of orienteering can use them in lieu of a compass.

Third, bipods stabilize the rifle by isolating the rifle from user movement. They do not eat recoil (assuming you're using the bipod correctly, you will be loading into it, not hanging back on it). Your body eats the recoil in a proper prone position, down your back and out through your toes.

Fourth, any .50cal rifle with a decent brake recoils about like 3inch turkey loads. An ill-placed Mosin hurts more. The AI AS-50 has a decent brake, so anyone who is used to shooting big bore civilian rifles should need no special training to use the .50cal.

Fifth, how on earth could someone get kissed by a 5.56 rifle? There's almost no recoil... in fact the Army teaches nose to charging handle in basic training, because A. it's an index point that any doofus can remember and B. there is almost no recoil on a 5.56 rifle.

Sixth, I love that realistic sniping video, but I've never noticed any wind effect on ballistics in ARMA. Is that something that they added as well? If windage had to be accounted for in DayZ you'd find a lot of people giving up on long range shooting altogether. Elevation is easy-peasy; windage is the devil, especially across valleys.

Edited December 12, 2012 by 032125

[Roac 19]

(*For BF3, not DayZ)

PROBLEM SOLVED!!!

Attach ACOG/Any other fast aiming scope to the sniper rifle. Most do ALOT of damage at close range, or you could always hipfire with the semi-auto snipers. Sure it'll piss off everybody, or you could stop sniping in a game where Recon has next to no point. With the exception of spawning soldiers and providing motion sensor support. Supression/ammo/Vehicle Buster is already covered by the Support class, Medics are obviously front line soldiers, etc.

So unless you're using a shotgun or AS-Val (etc) you probably aren't getting a very high SPM. In fact, the only good sniper i have ever seen in a game was on the other team sniping everyone as they got into our helicopter... from across the map.

Edited December 12, 2012 by Roac

[dekartz 315]

Roac. You brilliant bastard you've GOT IT

[‮spacecaps 101]

First of all, there is no balance in DayZ. Dean just reiterated this in an interview yesterday; so balance arguments are right out the window.

And still he continues to balance the game, removing all thermal sights is the obvious example. Because there are words you say on public, and there's just plain common sense you need to really get things done. Rocket is the drama queen, you should've see him at some hackers forum after the first ever DayZ banwave.

I've never noticed any wind effect on ballistics in ARMA. Is that something that they added as well? If windage had to be accounted for in DayZ you'd find a lot of people giving up on long range shooting altogether. Elevation is easy-peasy; windage is the devil, especially across valleys.

Yes, some ACE features were supposed to be integrated into DayZ, iirc

Edited December 12, 2012 by KizUrazgubi

[032125 (DayZ) 91]

Yes, some ACE features were supposed to be integrated into DayZ, iirc

That makes me happy.

[dekartz 315]

Unfortunately it's quite untrue.

As far as I'm aware the devs of ACE have expressed that they do not wish their work whether in whole or in part to be added to DayZ