Adding RPG Elements

[Sonicdahedgie 31]

Simple enough. I don't mean adding heavy RPG elements though. I don't want classes where you start out as a doctor, or a leveling up system where a plume of golden light shoots from your cock whenever you reach a new arbitrary level. I'm talking very minor stuff.

1) Over time, your character become better at rationing out food and water, requiring less of it over time. Now a days people tend to eat much more than they need, and wouldn't even know what "Hungry" really feels like. Asyour guys survives the apocalypse, he learns how much food his body REALLY needs, and how much of his hunger is just his psyche.

2) Panicking. The more time your character is introduced to situations that make him panic, the less panicked he becomes. Under no circumstances should panicking be REMOVED from the player, but there should be a reqard for continuing to survive life-threatening situations

3) Accuracy. Here's one of the bigger ones. The more you use your gun, the more accurate you get with it. However, as in real life, getting better with a gun requires throwing THOUSANDS of rounds down range. So simply popping zombies wouldn't help you a ton. I was thinking there could actually be shooting targets you could make/find, then set them up and by spending time actually practicing shooting in game, your character would shoot better.

4) Books/Knowledge. This is one I'm wrestling with, wondering if it would be a good addition or not, but can't decide. I'm thinking of finding books that teach you to do things more proficiently. bandaging someone, giving blood transfusions, stuff like that. There would most definitely be a cap on knowledge for stuff, maybe 3-4 books, and you have to have read prerequisite books to get the higher stats.

_________

All of these suggestions, for the most part, are fairly under the hood and don't directly interface with the game. At the "max level," the bonuses should give you some sort of advantage, but not by much. More so, there should be no way to check how high you are progressing with stats. The last thing I want is for a person to be thinking, "Oh man, just 10 more shots and I level up my pistol skills."

The point of these is to provide the player a reason to actually fear death, and giving you props for surviving as long as you can. Any more bonus idea, or tweaking of my given ones is welcome and appreciated.

[Dreygar (DayZ) 178]

1) Over time, your character become better at rationing out food and water, requiring less of it over time. I'd honestly prefer a system that required you nurioushment via the activity you are doing. If your character isn't doing very much, not exerting themself then they won't require as much food/water depending also on the weather conditions.

2) Panicking. The more time your character is introduced to situations that make him panic, the less panicked he becomes. I don't want things like this to be forced on character controls... Honestly during player engagements, something I'm still new to. My heartrate is pumping and I'm hoping I can land a good shot, or flank him before he flanks me, etc. There is enough going on for me as the player than the need to include restrictions on my controls/ingame player.

3) Accuracy. Here's one of the bigger ones. The more you use your gun, the more accurate you get with it. However, as in real life, getting better with a gun requires throwing THOUSANDS of rounds down range. Seeing as how ammunition might be rare it might be difficult to get shooting practice, and I don't think it would take thousands of rounds to familiarize yourself with a firearm. First time I ever fired a weapon was during my Army training. We practiced sight pictures, trigger squeeze, etc without live ammunition. We then zeroed our weapon, we spent a couple mags practicing.. then we went on to weapon qualification. Qualified expert.

4) Books/Knowledge. This is one I'm wrestling with, wondering if it would be a good addition or not, but can't decide. I think the more you do something the better you should get at it. Bandage 10 wounds and you learn to stop bleeding faster, etc.. Unfortunately that is kind of like a level system but there has to be some type of structure within it to make it complex. If items are going to be craftable you aren't going to come out the gate making some awesome melee weapon, but it's going to be pretty crude and probably not very effective. The more you work on it the better. Books about automechanics that helps you diagnoise a car issue to better repair, etc... Knowledge that can be gained and expanded on, but upon death all wiped clean along with everything else.

Edited December 10, 2012 by Dreygar

[Sonicdahedgie 31]

1) Over time, your character become better at rationing out food and water, requiring less of it over time. I'd honestly prefer a system that required you nurioushment via the activity you are doing. If your character isn't doing very much, not exerting themself then they won't require as much food/water depending also on the weather conditions.

This is already happens. I'm suggesting something different.

2) Panicking. The more time your character is introduced to situations that make him panic, the less panicked he becomes. I don't want things like this to be forced on character controls... Honestly during player engagements, something I'm still new to. My heartrate is pumping and I'm hoping I can land a good shot, or flank him before he flanks me, etc. There is enough going on for me as the player than the need to include restrictions on my controls/ingame player.

Panicking is already a part of the game. It is a status effect that happens to you when you get to close to zombies attacking you. Your character starts breathing heavily, and hunger and thirst start draining rapidly. At no point in time did I suggest taking control away from the player.

3) Accuracy. Here's one of the bigger ones. The more you use your gun, the more accurate you get with it. However, as in real life, getting better with a gun requires throwing THOUSANDS of rounds down range. Seeing as how ammunition might be rare it might be difficult to get shooting practice, and I don't think it would take thousands of rounds to familiarize yourself with a firearm. First time I ever fired a weapon was during my Army training. We practiced sight pictures, trigger squeeze, etc without live ammunition. We then zeroed our weapon, we spent a couple mags practicing.. then we went on to weapon qualification. Qualified expert.

Yes, familiarizing yourself with a weapon is not hard. I've taken the army qualification without being in the army. It's easy. A TON of people can pass it. And those that can't can have their problems fixed by a few simple tips on correcting posture. But getting BETTER from that point is much much much harder.

4) Books/Knowledge. This is one I'm wrestling with, wondering if it would be a good addition or not, but can't decide. I think the more you do something the better you should get at it. Bandage 10 wounds and you learn to stop bleeding faster, etc.. Unfortunately that is kind of like a level system but there has to be some type of structure within it to make it complex. If items are going to be craftable you aren't going to come out the gate making some awesome melee weapon, but it's going to be pretty crude and probably not very effective. The more you work on it the better. Books about automechanics that helps you diagnoise a car issue to better repair, etc... Knowledge that can be gained and expanded on, but upon death all wiped clean along with everything else.

Pretty much spot on what I was saying.

My text is in bold.

[Happymrsnowman 52]

I'd honestly prefer a system that required you nurioushment via the activity you are doing. If your character isn't doing very much, not exerting themself then they won't require as much food/water depending also on the weather conditions.

valid. Either way works

2) Panicking. The more time your character is introduced to situations that make him panic, the less panicked he becomes. I don't want things like this to be forced on character controls... Honestly during player engagements, something I'm still new to. My heartrate is pumping and I'm hoping I can land a good shot, or flank him before he flanks me, etc. There is enough going on for me as the player than the need to include restrictions on my controls/ingame player.

You misunderstand. This is already IN THE GAME. Your character shakes, loses thirst and hunger faster when in combat. All OP is saying is it should not be removed.

3) Accuracy. Here's one of the bigger ones. The more you use your gun, the more accurate you get with it. However, as in real life, getting better with a gun requires throwing THOUSANDS of rounds down range. Seeing as how ammunition might be rare it might be difficult to get shooting practice, and I don't think it would take thousands of rounds to familiarize yourself with a firearm. First time I ever fired a weapon was during my Army training. We practiced sight pictures, trigger squeeze, etc without live ammunition. We then zeroed our weapon, we spent a couple mags practicing.. then we went on to weapon qualification. Qualified expert.

You sir are a savant. I have been shooting for over 10 years and I can tell you that looking at pictures and handing the gun did NOT make me accurate. SHOOTING made me accurate. Perhaps not THOUSANDS of rounds, but hundreds. When I first got one of my pistols, it took 200-300 rounds for me to learn the characteristics of that weapon, its handling, where its shots went etc. Also, a standardized military training with an army issued firearm will be nothing like practice with some junker weapon you pick up in a barn or even a home.

4) Books/Knowledge. This is one I'm wrestling with, wondering if it would be a good addition or not, but can't decide. I think the more you do something the better you should get at it. Bandage 10 wounds and you learn to stop bleeding faster, etc.. Unfortunately that is kind of like a level system but there has to be some type of structure within it to make it complex. If items are going to be craftable you aren't going to come out the gate making some awesome melee weapon, but it's going to be pretty crude and probably not very effective. The more you work on it the better. Books about automechanics that helps you diagnoise a car issue to better repair, etc... Knowledge that can be gained and expanded on, but upon death all wiped clean along with everything else.

Of course on death, everything resets. I really think the mechanic should be so subtle as to not be noticeable by the player. Veteran survivalist players will notice themselves being slightly more effective but they will not be able to quantify it. Thats the purpose here, to give the player small, almost imperceptible perks that reward them for survival. There will be no SET way to achieve this quantifiably. Just playing the game.

[Dreygar (DayZ) 178]

You misunderstand. This is already IN THE GAME. Your character shakes, loses thirst and hunger faster when in combat. All OP is saying is it should not be removed.

Maybe I did, though I do not notice my character panick. I hear him breath heavy when I'm moving around but that's about it. Maybe my sound settings aren't high enough? I just don't want to have my weapon sway uncontrollably because I encountered a zombie.

You sir are a savant. I have been shooting for over 10 years and I can tell you that looking at pictures and handing the gun did NOT make me accurate. SHOOTING made me accurate. Perhaps not THOUSANDS of rounds, but hundreds. When I first got one of my pistols, it took 200-300 rounds for me to learn the characteristics of that weapon, its handling, where its shots went etc. Also, a standardized military training with an army issued firearm will be nothing like practice with some junker weapon you pick up in a barn or even a home.

Well, I can certainly say there are people who definitely struggle with the concept in one form or another. I've seen people who can sit at the range all day and can't even hit a 25 yard target. I wouldn't classify a pistol as a difficult weapon to shoot, generally used for short range with really good accuracy.

I do agree you need some knowledge and practice, especially using rifles ... you would also have to zero the weapon to you. Which means you'd have to reset all the sights and shoot at your desired range trying to close the sights into a grouping. Though I think that would be a little complicated/too indepth.

You could make it simple like pacing out 100 yards, grouping together a few shots on some random object; burnt out car, etc and the game then calibrates it.

Of course on death, everything resets. I really think the mechanic should be so subtle as to not be noticeable by the player. Veteran survivalist players will notice themselves being slightly more effective but they will not be able to quantify it. Thats the purpose here, to give the player small, almost imperceptible perks that reward them for survival. There will be no SET way to achieve this quantifiably. Just playing the game.

No matter what you do, if you include something like this there will have to be a certain threshold for the game to "advance" you, whether it tells you or not. Then it's just going to be added on a wiki page. "If you want to get better at X, just do Y so many times."

If it's going to be so subtle that you don't really notice it... then I don't think there is a point to it being in the game. I like the idea of players being able to do whatever they want in the game but I think a player should have some automotive knowledge before repairing an engine. Whether they gain that knowledge from books, doing basic automotive repairs (changing tires, glass, whatever other minor repairs and so on up the tier of difficulty). and so on.

From watching the interviews with Rocket, he really strikes me as an against the grain type of person; which I like. I hate the mainstream ways of gaming these days and I'm hoping for something new, exciting, full of depth. If it's going to be DayZMod+Plus+ then I'm going to be thoroughly disappointed.

[pawlzz 18]

I think this game has a too little timespan to make realistic learning effects (day zero). And I'm heavily against that (you didn't mention it either) the stats should be not erased by death.

I don't think it's so game changing, but I would accept very slight, non-trackable and levelless skill progresses.

It's a very risky point here, because some changes could really be a game-changer, what (in my opinion) would be fatal. You can go test it but I hope people will be very careful with it.

Edit: I personally think we have player progression right now. When you play the game continuesly, you can play it better. This is some bad-ass player progression line :)

...and I think it's enough.

Edited December 10, 2012 by Pawlzz

[Failbait 60]

This all already happens naturally -

1) You learn when to feed or water your character. How long you can go.

2) I am much calmer in combat than when I started playing Dayz.

3) I am a much better shot than when I began playing Dayz

4) I know where everything is, the damage values of guns, and what building spawns what loot. How's that for book knowledge?

This already happens automatically, and that's what makes the game so GOD DAMNED SPECIAL. It doesn't need the artificial mechanics you suggest, and is MUCH better without them.

[Dreygar (DayZ) 178]

This all already happens naturally -

1) You learn when to feed or water your character. How long you can go.

2) I am much calmer in combat than when I started playing Dayz.

3) I am a much better shot than when I began playing Dayz

4) I know where everything is, the damage values of guns, and what building spawns what loot. How's that for book knowledge?

This already happens automatically, and that's what makes the game so GOD DAMNED SPECIAL. It doesn't need the artificial mechanics you suggest, and is MUCH better without them.

Except the game doesn't have a crafting system in place (Suggested for SA) and the current vehicle repair is pretty silly. Some things do not require artificial mechanics as you mentioned and should be left to trial and error. Though some of the more advanced things should have a degree of individual character progression. Crafting, Repairs, and Medical being some of the top things.

Edit: I'm sure you've used the DayZ Wiki at some point, so I highly doubt you learned every aspect of the game from the game itself.

Edited December 10, 2012 by Dreygar

[Bribase 251]

I'm really torn about this. While Failbait's post is valid, anything that adds another layer of gameplay, anything that makes your character more precious and a greater loss to you if he dies the better.

We have character progression in the form of loot and vehicles but the significance of it has diminished when well organised squads can come and pick you up and get you back in the battle with your equipment intact. Even lone wolves can hoof it to their camp to load up again. The significance of a persistant character is not what it used to be.

The key to this is to give you character something like a memory/identity of some kind that is erased on death and grows as they play. While this will always be a little inorganic its a welcome trade off for making your character feel like an investment of time and a risk to lose.

[pawlzz 18]

This all already happens naturally -

1) You learn when to feed or water your character. How long you can go.

2) I am much calmer in combat than when I started playing Dayz.

3) I am a much better shot than when I began playing Dayz

4) I know where everything is, the damage values of guns, and what building spawns what loot. How's that for book knowledge?

This already happens automatically, and that's what makes the game so GOD DAMNED SPECIAL. It doesn't need the artificial mechanics you suggest, and is MUCH better without them.

This is exactly my point! The same thing goes with PvP/friendly stuff and clan structures. It all belongs to the players. This makes the game so beautiful.

Thank you. :)

Edited December 10, 2012 by Pawlzz

[Dreygar (DayZ) 178]

This is exactly my point! The same thing goes with PvP/friendly stuff and clan structures. It all belongs to the players. This makes the game so beautiful.

Thank you. :)

So I guess you're opposed to having some ingame created clan patch to put on your clothing to signify your clan?

No one is suggesting that the game be run by anything other than the players. Though it needs depth, and tools to make it even better than what it is. On that same note there should be some player progression/skill involved with certain activities. Just finding a tool box and engine parts should not be the extent of difficulty needed to fix a car.

[psylnz 34]

No to all 4. I like my game consequences based on my decisions, not on my stats.

[logan23 118]

What we could do is have the progression of the bonus which is not major to be tied to 2 things

1- How long the player is alive

2- How often they perform the skill to be better in it.

By suing the 2 factors this will mean doing a fix over and over like grinding will not get you that bonus.

How it would work:

Player and friends find a car and fix it but believe they can damage and fix it over and over and get the bonus but they might reach the threshold for the bonus but then the code looks at how long a player is alive.

EX. Lets say you need to be alive for 2 weeks or 4 weeks (this would all be worked out by testing).

This keeps players from what they would say POWER LEVELING through grinding in DayZ since they take in the consideration of how long your alive.

The length of time alive say 1 month = less stamina used up per action or can live longer without water and food since the body has adapted.

I don't know to much on the feeling of starving but I was in Hurricane Sandy where I lost power (it was a cold week) and was running out of food. All stores and dinners were closed due to lack of power and power lines made it dangerous to move around. During those 5 days,..by the 3rd day..my body changed in the amount of food and water i used,...it was weird.

So adding in where a player living 1 month and then say 3 month marker get more efficient in the need for water and food.

But the game must take consideration of actual game play time verse I played 4 days then took 3 weeks off and came back...there needs to be away so players can't get the bonus by simply being absent.

What do you think...

[Steak and Potatoes 13480]

The only leveling system allowed should be increased beard length the longer you survive. The longer the beard the more stamina/badassness you aquire.

[Happymrsnowman 52]

Logan, I like that. It means that evem a "carebear" lonewolf can still get better as he stays alive. On the other hand, combat oriented players will always be risking their survival. It's a bit of a "life experience" value. The longer you're alive the more you know. Even if it's really basic shit. So the longer you're in the zone, the more adapted you become. And of course what we are talkinga bout here are bonuses that woudn't give any one player a distinct advantage over another one, at least in terms of combat. Simply the stipulation that if you've survived longer, you can CONTINUE to survive longer.

[Dreygar (DayZ) 178]

All in all it's a worthy consideration and it will be interesting to see what the development team does to separate the mod from the actual game. Suggestions like this I like, and it shows people want something more than just what the mod is offering.

[Failbait 60]

Yes some people want different things than the mod is offering. However, game development (and ESPECIALLY this one) is not a democracy.

And certainly not when it comes to things that betray the spirit of tue game. If you don't think skills do, then we are playing different games.

[Dreygar (DayZ) 178]

Yes some people want different things than the mod is offering. However, game development (and ESPECIALLY this one) is not a democracy.

And certainly not when it comes to things that betray the spirit of tue game. If you don't think skills do, then we are playing different games.

Again, no one is asking for skill trees. Though to my knowledge things like this are "wait and see" and haven't been talked about by Rocket. Just like the crafting system, etc. The only thing Rocket has mentioned, that I know of, is that he is against having "classes" and that it is up to the player to determine the type of character they want to play.

[Failbait 60]

Please pardon typos and brevity. On a mobile device.

[Failbait 60]

Hey Dregar, find the place in any of my posts where I mention skill trees.

[Failbait 60]

Hey Dregar, find the place in any of my posts where I mention skill trees.

[Dreygar (DayZ) 178]

I didn't mean to imply that you said "skill trees" I'm just trying to tell you that what the op and others have suggested is pretty subtle and not a skill tree system.

Judging by the "spirit" of the game, it is meant to be hard. I think there needs to be a large learning curve in some aspects of the game. Whether that be repeition using your character or some other form. I don't think a player should just find a work bench and craft a sword, or find a toolbox and some parts and fix a vehicle, or even how to properly administer an IV (via Blood bag)... So I think it is well within the spirit of the game, but again that's just my view.

[Brittanica 26]

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/107120-the-moral-compass/

[Failbait 60]

It is clear that the apocalypse has been happening for a lot longer than your character has been alive - now clearly (in the game universe) your character existed before you played them.

Do you think it would be possible to survive an apocalypse without knowing or learning these skills? Why do I need an artificial mechanic? Can't I simply practice and get better?

[logan23 118]

I think the OP- is getting at ways to do things subtly and not where it give you a major edge.

The OP- is touching on the topic of Player Progression.

Player Progression is important, players want to know they are progressing in some manner.

Many would point to gear, or finding your own nitch to call home, or get that car/or chopper running,...But what happens after that?

This is where the poster was touching on,...small bonuses for players who do acts or have survived for a long time.

This means if you found your chopper or got all your gear you wanted,..by doing medical for others you will see that maybe the length of time to bandage another player takes a only 3/4 of the time it did when you were a fresh spawn. Doing small things like this will keep players feel that they are evolving with the world and building their toughness as they do certain actions.

Again these should be tied in part to how long you have survived in game.

Your looking at these in connection with doing the action and the days the player is alive/ active game play.

So it could be first at 1 month, then 3 months....but then there will have to be a peak where you can't gain any more of that certain skill since you are not an expert survivor/bandit.

This peak won't matter to much since most players won't live for 3 months. (this X value will be created based on days alive and number of hours active in the game)