Low Permanent Cost to Killing

[DoozyWombat 1]

Proposal: Permanently reduce a player's maximum hit points when attacking another player other than in self-defense, or killing another player.

Rationale: Lots of solutions have been proposed to the problem of players who just want to practice being Columbine wannabes. Aside from the larger ethical and moral questions of training large numbers of people to practice Columbine-style mass murder, it sucks for the noobs, who just want to survive and escape/fight off zs, and then get sniped. Start all over, get a little further, and get sniped again.

IMO, the only way this will be resolved is to make a permanent cost to killing part of the game. I.e., if a player's full-health (maximum) hp is around 12,000, make it so that an attack on another player costs a PERMANENT reduction of 200 hp, unless that player attacked you first. If you kill another player, even in self defense, it costs you 300 hp.

So, an unprovoked fatal sniping of another player costs you 500 hp, and even if you are fired upon and return fire to kill the other player, it still costs you a permanent reduction of 300 hp. Kill enough people, and a single hit from a z will kill you.

The reason for having a cost to killing, even in self defense, is that reflects real life. If you kill someone, there IS a cost, even if the person thoroughly deserved it, and you killed only in self-defense. If you can defend yourself, and get away WITHOUT killing the other, you save yourself a lot of grief. Sometimes you are dealing with a predator, and taking them out is the right thing to do -- but there is still a cost.

The person who can kill another person without remorse is the very definition of a sociopath. I'd like to see the game actively discouraging that trend.

Details: I would use the combat timer to determine when this is reapplied. In other words, you might shoot at another player multiple times during a single gunfight, but it only counts as one gunfight. If you cease fire long enough for the combat timer to go off, however, and then re-engage, you incur another penalty.

Determining self-defense may be problematic. I know there is a humanity element already in the game that uses this, so I would use the same thing. If it is too complicated to enforce that, I would say that making it a simple 200 hp if you hit another player, and 300 more if you kill him/her, would also work much better than what we have now. Then near misses don't count, and it's almost always better to avoid killing another player.

I suggested a fairly low penalty for it, because I think it would change the game too much if you made it too high. I think this much will put an end to the Columbine syndrome aspect. If some of those people leave the game because of it, I say, good riddance. Maybe they will get counseling before they decide to try it IRL.

PVP does happen and is part of the game, but by making it costly, you provide a real-world balance to violent interactions with other players. A player could still take out another player who is well-equipped, but doing so is not free. If a player is doing that more than two or three times in the course of playing, they are killing for some other reason than gaining equipment.

Friendly fire mistakes also happen, and while you would still have a penalty for it, it should not be crushing. IRL, it is much more devastating than a self-defense killing, but I wouldn't want to try to distinguish what is and is not friendly fire.

Doozy Wombat

[Sgt.Asshat 607]

So a murderer in real life would be weaker if he killed another person?

WRONG! YOU EAT THEIR HEART AND BECOME STRONGER!!!

if you're that butt hurt about bandits then stop running/screaming at them shouting "friendly!!!" and learn to avoid conflict

[rossums 2190]

There shouldn't be a penalty to another player because you were stupid enough to get shot in the face by them.

Who gives a crap if other players only want to kill zombies? Go play L4D if that's the case.

DayZ is about both the PvE and PvP aspects in a fight for survival, punishing a player for shooting someone else is just silly and serves no real purpose.

[geostabler@gmail.com 1]

The game is PvP based. Sorry but players being dangerous is what makes the game fun, otherwise go play the SP mod for DayZ

[Mos1ey 6301]

The game is PvP based. Sorry but players being dangerous is what makes the game fun, otherwise go play the SP mod for DayZ

It isn't PvP based at all, it's a sandbox game with a community that created a deathmatch metagame...

Regardless this idea makes no sense, as said above - why would you become weaker through killing someone? :S

[Timmymachine109 (DayZ) 235]

This is a retarded suggestion...The game would be boring without pvp and with this you would only be able to kill a certain number of players before it is unplayable...no beans for you!

[DoozyWombat 1]

To answer the questions about why killing someone would make you weaker, there is definitely a large psychological cost to murder. You pay for it, either in remorse or in loss of your humanity. This, I am guessing, is why the "humanity index" penalty was added. Becoming a bandit was supposedly a deterrent, except that it did not work, as players apparently did not care what it did to their appearance, as long as it did not affect their abilities in the game. I am simply proposing making the penalty tied to players' actual ability in the game, rather than just their appearance.

I am not suggesting the elimination of pvp. You'll always have that. There is a large difference, however, between having to make a serious decision about whether to kill, cooperate, or avoid, and simply killing everyone you meet, because it is safer (or much worse, because it is fun.) You want to take down another player to get their gear, go ahead. You can do it once, or even a few times, without serious consequences. There will always be the danger that someone may snipe you, and interactions with other players will always be adrenaline experiences.

Just as in the real world, however, being a sociopath should result in big penalties. Start killing a lot of people in the real world -- even in a mythical post-apocalyptic zombie world -- and the sane humans are going to gather together, hunt you down, and shoot you like the animal (or uninfected zombie) you have chosen to become. Dayz isn't set up to allow that kind of cooperation, but in a game this realistic, there should be a cost to murder.

[colekern 1364]

To answer the questions about why killing someone would make you weaker, there is definitely a large psychological cost to murder. You pay for it, either in remorse or in loss of your humanity. This, I am guessing, is why the "humanity index" penalty was added. Becoming a bandit was supposedly a deterrent, except that it did not work, as players apparently did not care what it did to their appearance, as long as it did not affect their abilities in the game. I am simply proposing making the penalty tied to players' actual ability in the game, rather than just their appearance.

I am not suggesting the elimination of pvp. You'll always have that. There is a large difference, however, between having to make a serious decision about whether to kill, cooperate, or avoid, and simply killing everyone you meet, because it is safer (or much worse, because it is fun.) You want to take down another player to get their gear, go ahead. You can do it once, or even a few times, without serious consequences. There will always be the danger that someone may snipe you, and interactions with other players will always be adrenaline experiences.

Just as in the real world, however, being a sociopath should result in big penalties. Start killing a lot of people in the real world -- even in a mythical post-apocalyptic zombie world -- and the sane humans are going to gather together, hunt you down, and shoot you like the animal (or uninfected zombie) you have chosen to become. Dayz isn't set up to allow that kind of cooperation, but in a game this realistic, there should be a cost to murder.

We're not going to close off a sandbox game. One of the things that's special about DayZ is that there's no morality system or anything holding you back.

[captainwaffles 41]

YES YOUR TEARS TASTE DELICIOUS

Also why would I lose health for kicking someones ass?

[Steak and Potatoes 13480]

So if I stroll down to Electro on a high pop server with a beast like MK48 and essentially hold down the trigger spraying innnocents until I kill myself?

[Sonicdahedgie 31]

STOP THIS. God dammit guys, this game RUNS off PvP. Stop suggesting we punish players for doing so. I have no problem with putting game play mechanics in game to make people work together more, but punishing people for attacking other players is retarded. Can we get a fucking sticky for this shit?

[smore98 225]

You want people to have their blood reduced if they attack you?

Sounds like much death has happened in your DayZ experience, sir.

[treecancer 43]

wrong wrong and wrong. OP obviously does not understand what DayZ is. The constant danger posed by randoms is an integral part of what makes DayZ so intense. Zombies are the devils we know, men are unpredictable, this is what makes the experience so incredible. This is your story where you choose what kind of survivor you will be. Punishing a legit playstyle such as banditry with a permanent penalty is a gamebreaker.

[DiazWaffleCrabstro 39]

so many reasons why this is not going to get implemented an overall and bad idea to start with. There already are cons to killing people, it is called being a bandit. People will remember you and shun you, and the bandit skin kinda gives it away too.

[Junos 57]

I agree that something should be done, but I think there is a better solution, which I explained here: http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/43889-uneasiness-around-other-survivors-for-excessive-murders/ Basically, the more senseless killing you do, the more paranoid your character becomes, and the harder it is for him to remain composed and steady around other survivors.

Edited December 11, 2012 by Junos

[Failbait 60]

Please god no.

This would incontrovertibly and fundamentally change dayz into something unrecognizable.

[DiazWaffleCrabstro 39]

My solution: 10 kills in one life = bandit skin, Die skin resets but humanity stays as it is, kill again and it is back to bandit skin(unless you got shot at first)

30 kills in one life = You look like this, return to regular bambi looks on death. same kill rule as with 10 kills under your belt, whenever you raise your weapon, a sound is played saying "Dont you dare to touch my mustard you hippies"

45 kills in one life = You look like this thats right, no ghilley suit for you bro, you dont need it, your so damn badass. on death return to the state of havign 10 kills.

69 kills in one life = You will forever be transformed into one of

and that same song will constantly be looped around you(you will hear it yourself for one loop when you kill someone) and there will never be a return to the past.

[GOD™ 2795]

I'm against the CoD kiddie style PvP in DayZ.

But i even gotta admit this idea is down right stupid.