Decreased bullet lethality with increased incapacitation

[aksuduud 64]

In DayZ at the moment it takes 3 to four bullets to kill with the first few bullets propably breaking legs and other nasty stuff, my idea is that the lethality of bullets is reduced, so that death sets in a few minutes or seconds after being shot, for example someone takes a round to the chest, he collapses and starts bleeding badly but is still alive and his mates can patch him up if he doesnt bleed to death, obviously headshots and multiple successive shots would be lethal almost instantaneously, but i think it would be interesting if you could survive taking a few rounds but it would require your mates to carry medical equipment to cover for the excessive trauma, it would also allow a bandit who has issues with his conscience to try and patch up the guy he shot and then leave him laying unconscious on the field, from where he then might recover.

This post is a horrible stream of thoughts, but tldr an improved medical system in the style of ACE mod, perhaps with improvised eqipment such as duct tape as a chest seal and a cable tie as a tourniquet.

[Derpy_Hooves (DayZ) 4521]

Well yeah you would expect some military grade medical equipment from say the tents for instance such as Tourniquets and large bandages, but again would everybody know how to stop a sucking chest wound or use a Tourniquet properly without the proper training?

As it stands the medical system is ok, even if your group comes under fire and you take a hit or two if they manage to suppress the enemy and get a man to you it will take a couple of minutes of yours and his time to get you back into the fight...

As for Bandit mentality, if they were going to take the shot it is for the kill, even if you are laying in a field spurting blood from several wounds, unable to save yourself they would most likely finish you off. I can't see anyone wasting equipment on someone they just shot, especially a bandit. If i shoot you, i am going to kill you, no two ways about it....

[Bludy 324]

the system is balanced to me..if you are in good shape with maximum blood you won't die without an as50 shot..and a lot of weapons actually put you down alive but knocked out..(all 8000 to 4500 damage weapons, like enfield, m14, whinchester and shotguns at medium with shells or with slugs,dmr,m24)you can survive a couple of 5.56 rounds and a good number of pistol bullets, a couple of axe hits..and you still won't move too far without bandaging yourself.

[Sutinen 635]

I also think shooting at legs shouldn't break them. Maybe some sort of disability, but not just *CRACK* and you're basically already dead.

The other thing is, shooting at body below the chest shouldn't be an instant death, but should cause a few more bad effects (Because hitting guts/organs isn't as bad as getting hit in the lungs or your heart)

The final one (Yay!) is getting hit in your limbs. The bullets shouldn't kill you instantly when you get hit in limbs, the bleeding should cause it. So if you hit someone with a powerful weapon in the arm, they shouldn't die instantly.

Edited November 20, 2012 by Sutinen

[dasdarkseed@hotmail.com 21]

I actually thought bullets should cause more damage. Eg. in short range, a bullet to the chest would normal be a kill, with a really small chance to need a second shot to make the kill.

For longer distances it works pretty fine as it is, or maybe add a couple thousand points to the damage factor.

Having to shoot someone 3-4 times with a rifle at 300 meters doesn't seem too realistic. Keep in mind if you do hit your target, he/she might still be able to run around at full speed.

Guns DO kill people, so why should we reduce their power?

I do agree though that hits to the legs and arms should just limp the target, not kill him, unless there have been enough hits so bleeding is excessive.

[Derpy_Hooves (DayZ) 4521]

I actually thought bullets should cause more damage. Eg. in short range, a bullet to the chest would normal be a kill, with a really small chance to need a second shot to make the kill.

For longer distances it works pretty fine as it is, or maybe add a couple thousand points to the damage factor.

Having to shoot someone 3-4 times with a rifle at 300 meters doesn't seem too realistic. Keep in mind if you do hit your target, he/she might still be able to run around at full speed.

Guns DO kill people, so why should we reduce their power?

I do agree though that hits to the legs and arms should just limp the target, not kill him, unless there have been enough hits so bleeding is excessive.

Yeah in agreement here, kinda whole point of DayZ is to avoid being shot...

[Bludy 324]

an as50 or saw bullet would rip off your arm and even small bullets do break your bones, but i'm switching to real life and this is a game so i think they can't implement a lot of wounds...just there aren't fire arms wounds which aren't serious..and not all the hits in the legs broke your bones ingame, anyway we will have some changes in the mdical part with standalone so let's see i guess..

[Sutinen 635]

an as50 or saw bullet would rip off your arm and even small bullets do break your bones, but i'm switching to real life and this is a game so i think they can't implement a lot of wounds...just there aren't fire arms wounds which aren't serious..and not all the hits in the legs broke your bones ingame, anyway we will have some changes in the mdical part with standalone so let's see i guess..

You have to hit the bone to fracture it. It's not like both of your legs get chopped in half if you get shot. So it is not realistic.

Edited November 20, 2012 by Sutinen

[Trizzo 632]

Because incapacitating people more often will make them die less? Impoved medical system I'm all for (its happening)....and a SAW will not "rip" an arm off

Edited November 20, 2012 by Trizzo

[Derpy_Hooves (DayZ) 4521]

A .50cal is probably the only thing capable of ripping limbs off, and maybe a 7.62mm round below the elbow at close enough range but even then.... that would require some hell of a combat engine.

SAW's will just pepper you with big holes, more shred you to bits than actually tear limbs off.. Same goes with most LMG's.

.50cal GPMG's on the other hand... tear people in half!! and the noise... God like. bit OTT for DayZ though.

[disorder 344]

It's not really Soldier of Fortune.. although if it had bloody dismemberment I wouldn't mind at all.

But here is what I think should happen, until the damaged part is fixed.

1 leg = forced walk, random bleeding, pain

2 legs = as broken bones is currently, lots of pain. bleeding.

1 arm = constant pain and poor aiming, random bleeding, pain.

2 arms = can't hold gun or use backpack, can only move around. bleeding and lots of pain.

Stomach = random unconscious/bleeding out on floor. lots of pain and black outs

chest = fatal pain, bleeding out. black outs.

head = fatal instant death.

Effects would be cumulative. Shock would of course be added to all of those things.

Edited November 20, 2012 by disorder

[aksuduud 64]

I actually thought bullets should cause more damage. Eg. in short range, a bullet to the chest would normal be a kill, with a really small chance to need a second shot to make the kill.

For longer distances it works pretty fine as it is, or maybe add a couple thousand points to the damage factor.

Having to shoot someone 3-4 times with a rifle at 300 meters doesn't seem too realistic. Keep in mind if you do hit your target, he/she might still be able to run around at full speed.

Guns DO kill people, so why should we reduce their power?

I do agree though that hits to the legs and arms should just limp the target, not kill him, unless there have been enough hits so bleeding is excessive.

The idea is that if you take a bullet to the chest you will collapse due to shock and other factors and you are as good as dead unless you receive some medical attention, this would work to avert the CriticalExistenceFailure. Unnecessary to simulate perhaps but it might increase the immersion to see the man you shot choking on his blood lying down helpless, altough some sick fuck might like it too much.

And yes, i did link to tvtropes B)

[Acix 132]

A SAW would not rip a limb off unless hit in quick succession, the M249 Squad Automatic Weapon fires 5.56 albeit a bit faster than, but the same round as the M4 and all M16 variants. But lets talk realistically for a minute, IRL a .50 fired from the M82A2 SASR(or Special Applications Scoped Rifle) in game would be the M107 .50 Barret, Does not even have to hit you to kill you. The round can pass over your shoulder, ripping all flesh from your face, dislocate your should and cause major internal muscle, ligament and tendon tears with a technically missed shot. Furthermore a dead center shot on someones torso @ 900m with a .50 would also cause all limbs to be severed and leave nothing but a bloody hunk of meat in its wake. Rounds fired from long ranged, high powered, scoped rifles do more damage at range than up close. A Cheytec .408 intervention causes more damage @ 1200m than a 12g shotgun firing 3 1/2in slug @ point blank range. Just a bit to think on when you want weapons nerfed or things changed because you think it's unrealistic.

These aren't made up facts I spent 5 years in the Marine Corps, 2 of which were spent in STA Platoon for 3rd Bn. 6th Mar 2ndMarDiv

Edited November 20, 2012 by Acix

[aksuduud 64]

Bull

Shit

Mythbusters shot a .50 near wine glasses, nothing happened until they actually hit the glasses. If it doesnt break glasses im sure it wont fuck your insides.

[Derpy_Hooves (DayZ) 4521]

Glass is a completely different compound to flesh and tissue, and he is right, the sheer shock and force of the round passing through the air next to your face is enough to cause internal damage and tear flesh from the face.

The military teach you lovely things about what weapons can do to you....

[Trizzo 632]

Bull

Shit

Mythbusters shot a .50 near wine glasses, nothing happened until they actually hit the glasses. If it doesnt break glasses im sure it wont fuck your insides.

Agreed. Glass is different but I cannot see a projectile travelling fast enough/large enough to push enough of whatever force to wound just by passing by (air/pressure) being a 50 cal bullet.

And as for a .50cal leaving a "hunk of meat" i find this suspicious. A .50cal simply cannot transfer so much kinetic energy that it disintegrates the entire torso making limbs and all pop off. It doesn't do it on pigs in the testing/hunting videos I have seen and should not on humans. It would obviously do major damage to anywhere it hit but explode an entire body? No.

I've hit a rabbit with a .308 in the abdominal area. It does major mushrooming as expected, massive exit wound but nothing else had force transferred to it. The other areas were untouched. Simple psychics. It's one of the wierd fetishes the .50cal. It's an old round and there are many better calibers that have come since that do its job better.,

Edited November 20, 2012 by Trizzo

[enforcer1975 1111]

I also think shooting at legs shouldn't break them. Maybe some sort of disability, but not just *CRACK* and you're basically already dead.

The other thing is, shooting at body below the chest shouldn't be an instant death, but should cause a few more bad effects (Because hitting guts/organs isn't as bad as getting hit in the lungs or your heart)

The final one (Yay!) is getting hit in your limbs. The bullets shouldn't kill you instantly when you get hit in limbs, the bleeding should cause it. So if you hit someone with a powerful weapon in the arm, they shouldn't die instantly.

It isn't a break, it represents anything that could make your legs useless...

A shot in one of your limbs is capable of killing kill you in an instant, imagine a bullet hitting one of the arteries - death in seconds over minutes to hours depending on the caliber if not treated. An acquantance of a coworker died during mrt when they scanned him for any internal wounds after they brought him in after a bike accident because his chest artery ripped. Seconds before he was perfectly fine.

Yeah in agreement here, kinda whole point of DayZ is to avoid being shot...

Wasn't the main goal avoid getting bitten by zombies?

[Derpy_Hooves (DayZ) 4521]

Wasn't the main goal avoid getting bitten by zombies?

That became a sub objective... bullets became more dangerous than the undead.

[Acix 132]

Bull

Shit

Mythbusters shot a .50 near wine glasses, nothing happened until they actually hit the glasses. If it doesnt break glasses im sure it wont fuck your insides.

Mybusters also fired a civilian rifle with civilian grade ammo @ 200m. Kinetic force and energy multiplies greatly at over 800m

[Zeppa 562]

OP should run around taking bullets and post then what should be reduced :D

This is no cod.

[Derpy_Hooves (DayZ) 4521]

OP should run around taking bullets and post then what should be reduced :D

This is no cod.

Report already completed..

Results: Bullets hurt... i died alot, best advice: Don't get shot!

[Tabris07 159]

If possible, I think bullet lethality should depend on where the player was hit.

For example, a person who was clipped in the leg should have a much better chance of recovering than the guy next to him who was blasted in the chest, he should probably die.

[:VADER: 88]

this post sounds like dayz to me ... this is pretty much happens all the time in dayz.....

[Derpy_Hooves (DayZ) 4521]

If possible, I think bullet lethality should depend on where the player was hit.

For example, a person who was clipped in the leg should have a much better chance of recovering than the guy next to him who was blasted in the chest, he should probably die.

This is true, but then you clipping from the bullet hits an Artery then you are right royally shafted. no bandage is stopping that from bleeding out until you plug the Artery, requiring a field medics kit.

[Leadon77 94]

I think bullets hurt...(shot in Iraq) I was pretty done with the fight with just 1. It was a non-lethal hit, with plenty of blood to cause a bit of shock. I think you should be able to incapacitate body parts, weapons, or to pepper someone enough to suppress them.

If a sniper is by a tree, up a hill, by hitting the dirt/tree/whatever, you provide enough dust/debris to get that person to duck possibly muck up their vision for a second while they clear their eyes and regain full vision. This usually provides you enough time to get to a new location while laying cover fire for squad to also get to cover or move wounded to a safer location. I think this would be more feasable than taking 4, 5 rounds and still wanting to fight.