Would you quit if servers went expert?

[Smirl 13]

Lol I would play even more, I love it on expert setting, it makes it more fair when everyone is on 1st person, and more realistic without names, crosshairs etc.

[Epoch 5]

No I definitely wouldn't quit if all servers went "expert."

I would be motivated to play more! I've been killed by people abusing 3dp more times than I can remember, and because of this I also abuse 3dp when I'm playing on a server where its enabled. I find that I play on servers with 3dp enabled only because they have high populations. Whereas 1st person only servers servers are usually rather empty sadly.

The one glaring downfall of 1st person view in dayz is the abysmal fov. I know you can change it and I have, but mill dots on all sniper rifles are no longer an accurate means of determining range once you change your fov. If that can be remedied and we are given the ability to change our fov in-game in the standalone, I don't feel like there would be any reason to have 3dp at all. It would level the playing field, and I think that's a really good thing.

Edit: I forgot to mention the map features expert takes away, sine I've never liked playing on anything less than Veteran servers. Nameplates are plane silly for obvious reasons. IMO being able to see your current map location and the ability to use waypoints should only be available once you've acquired a GPS. Seeing your current location on your paper map is a debatable feature, but waypoints seem pretty logical to me once you've acquired a GPS.

Edited December 1, 2012 by Epoch

[major.skrewup@gmail.com 177]

I'd like to see third person have a sort of fog of war type effect, if your player cant see it in first person (say your looking over an edge or around a corner in third person) it doesn't reveal zombies or players, just the terrain or something to prevent roof camping and the like.

[RuecanOnRails (DayZ) 23]

I would enjoy the game more If we were locked into expert.

first person only would be an amazing experience as everyone would be on a level playing field. The reason people use third is because of the advantage you can get with it.

My biggest gripe with third person is the fact that someone can see you while being completely hidden and there is nothing you can do about it.

Name tags are just horrible in general, you can literally scan your crosshair across the screen looking through cities and find something pop up with a name tag. even worse when it marks that location on the map. you can accidentally find vehicles from ridiculous distances.

Character location on the map makes the gps and compass almost useless as vital items.

Waypoints are overpowered. They need to be disabled if you do not have a compass and gps. Having a GPS should show character location on map (yours only not enemies "seen")

I am all for turning the difficulty up on this game far beyond what is currently available. Sure we will have a large amount of people complaining, but that happens when there is any sort of change made. Let them complain all they want they will eventually start enjoying it and learning new strategies or they will quit and the community will be better for it.

The people complaining about getting motion sick. Increase your FOV, turn off post processing (motion blur), reduce head bob, and add a little bit of mouse smoothing. Do those may not eliminate motion sickness but it will reduce it greatly and allow your body to adapt and get used to it. If you still get motion sick maybe it's not the game for you to play for extended periods at a time?

EDIT: There would be a few welcomed things that could be added to a first person view. I'd like to see the ability to raise your head in order look over objects slightly. We need some more vertical control between prone, crouch, and standing. The ability to move your head up slightly to see over some grass while prone, or over the edge of a building while your on the roof. Of course doing so would make you visible, just not as visible as say going from prone to crouch is.

I'd also like to add that it would be like holding alt, it does not move your gun.

key bindings I could see to be something like ALT plus shift/control for raise and lower. or whatever key binding you feel like settings, back/forward mouse buttons if your mouse has those.

Edited December 1, 2012 by RuecanOnRails

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

I still haven't managed to get a decent game on an expert server. None of them ever have more than 5 players when I'm on.

Every server is 3dp enabled. I've been playing in 1st person anyway, to see what it's like.

Certain interactions in that view can shit you right up. ^_^

Hopefully, for SA, the devs will have realised how this exploit, and the "reasons" for keeping 3dp are fixable.

"Periscopes" don't bother me much, but the amount of grief people on here get from it is a joke.

I'm pretty sure if the camera was at least closer to the character and lower down, things wouldn't be nearly as exploitable.

Compare DayZ and Resident Evil 4 (a game that is ENTIRELY 3dp)

I'd, ideally, still just like to see my character running around and doing stuff. Custom clothes will make the urge a hell of a lot worse!

IF 1st person is enforced, I'd prefer there to be an optional 3rd person while sprinting (can't really peek round corners while running as fast as you can), bandaging, repairing, cooking etc.

Just a thought. Remember, everyone plays their own way. But I agree, that doesn't mean people should be afforded exploitable mechanics, especially in an online game.

Edited December 3, 2012 by Chabowski

[maxnmike 134]

I would say the lack of players on the expert servers has already answered the question. If all the people in this thread that are saying they would play more would play on those servers, they would be populated, but they don't, they play on regular servers and then complain about it. lol

[Steak and Potatoes 13480]

I am a fan of all the settings except no 3rd because everytime I attempt to roll down a hill to sneak up on someone it feels like im in a washing machine.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

I would say the lack of players on the expert servers has already answered the question. If all the people in this thread that are saying they would play more would play on those servers, they would be populated, but they don't, they play on regular servers and then complain about it. lol

I see this bullshit posted every time something like this comes up. It makes absolutely no sense, but you'll keep saying it because it favors your preference. How about you try looking at this issue objectively?

I am 1 person. I'm offered two choices. Play on a full server with settings I don't like, or play on a practically empty server with settings that I like. Here's the kicker.... IT'S A MULTIPLAYER GAME! Which option do you think 9/10 people will pick?

Now I'm guessing you'll tell me to "seed" the expert servers, "If you all did it, you'd have full servers". I(we) have. Trust us. I can seed ti'll the cows come home, people still flock to the full servers, no matter what the settings.

Another problem with your argument, is the fact that expert is the only difficulty that removes 3rd person view. So if people don't like any of the other settings it contains, they'll be stuck with 3rd person servers. It's not simply a choice of 3rd person or 1st person, it's a variety of easy mode choices or "hardcore" mode.

Finally, the biggest problem I have seen with this, is that when server admins set their server to expert, it sits empty.(or practically empty) Nobody likes paying to host a server that hardly gets used. So, they eventually give in and enable 3rd person, sit back and watch the tidal wave of players.

But, your totally right dude, it's all the individual players faults that they aren't constantly playing in empty servers, waiting for the community to change its ways. That would really improve their DayZ experience.

/rant

Edited December 3, 2012 by bad_mojo

[Maxgor 2314]

I wouldn't quit, but it certainly wouldn't be a plus. I like going Third Person for the long treks everywhere and for driving. I then go into FP for combat situations. Much nicer that way.

[maxnmike 134]

I see this bullshit posted every time something like this comes up. It makes absolutely no sense, but you'll keep saying it because it favors your preference. How about you try looking at this issue objectively?

I am 1 person. I'm offered two choices. Play on a full server with settings I don't like, or play on a practically empty server with settings that I like. Here's the kicker.... IT'S A MULTIPLAYER GAME! Which option do you think 9/10 people will pick?

Now I'm guessing you'll tell me to "seed" the expert servers, "If you all did it, you'd have full servers". I(we) have. Trust us. I can seed ti'll the cows come home, people still flock to the full servers, no matter what the settings.

Another problem with your argument, is the fact that expert is the only difficulty that removes 3rd person view. So if people don't like any of the other settings it contains, they'll be stuck with 3rd person servers. It's not simply a choice of 3rd person or 1st person, it's a variety of easy mode choices or "hardcore" mode.

Finally, the biggest problem I have seen with this, is that when server admins set their server to expert, it sits empty.(or practically empty) Nobody likes paying to host a server that hardly gets used. So, they eventually give in and enable 3rd person, sit back and watch the tidal wave of players.

But, your totally right dude, it's all the individual players faults that they aren't constantly playing in empty servers, waiting for the community to change its ways. That would really improve their DayZ experience.

/rant

The facts are the facts, you guys don't care enough to put in the work of getting the servers up and running so you go for the instant gratification of the full server not matter what settings they run.. You can't just seed them for a day or two, you have to keep trying. I'm sorry you can't play on the servers the way you want but if the majority of players don't want to play that way I guess you have to choose what you want the most. Full servers or expert settings. Very simple really. Also, you don't have to use 3rd person if you don't want to. If you think it gives others a slight advantage, well that means you just have to be that much better at being the expert player.

Edited December 3, 2012 by maxnmike

[sunnz 24]

Well if the FP mode isnot fixed and is still as crappy as it is in arma/dayz ( clunky, feel so crap, unresponsive) then i would be annoyed but probably will just deal with it.

If its fixed up, smoother and less clunky, i would love it.

[Azrail (DayZ) 211]

As you probably expected it's 1,000 times more complicated than it has to be. :D

Wouldn't be Arma 2 otherwise ^_^

For good expert servers i always reserve a slot on my favorites.

No 3rd person, no crosshairs, no waypoints and no death messages.

Thats the way i like it. A clean, empty, set of icons on my DayZ Commander.

Problem being, all my friends play on easymode servers with waypoints and 3rd person.

Thats why this mod needs to be restricted to expert rules,

so if people want to play a realism zombie shooter, it actually offers realism,

and they just have to deal with it.

it's not like the game isn't perfectly playable without all those easymode tools.

oh please, i would enjoy this game so much more if it was expert only.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

The facts are the facts, you guys don't care enough to put in the work of getting the servers up and running so you go for the instant gratification of the full server not matter what settings they run.. You can't just seed them for a day or two, you have to keep trying. I'm sorry you can't play on the servers the way you want but if the majority of players don't want to play that way I guess you have to choose what you want the most. Full servers or expert settings. Very simple really. Also, you don't have to use 3rd person if you don't want to. If you think it gives others a slight advantage, well that means you just have to be that much better at being the expert player.

You don't understand the mental mind set of a dayz player. If the server has less than 20-30 players, most of them won't join.(Or the ones that do will quit if more people join, because they want an empty server) Getting an expert server from 5-10 players to over 20 is an extremely rare occurance. And all it takes one hacking incident to drain it down to 5 again.

I spent the first 3 months playing dayz on ONLY expert servers. I've done the whole "seed for more than a couple days" and I can tell you it's fucking boring as hell. I might as well be playing in singleplayer. Sure, it can be amazing when the server rarely gets a population, but since I've switched to veteran servers I've had those amazing times on a daily basis.

I can have fun with the popular settings, but I know I would have more fun on my perfered settings. It's frustrating, and it's NOT something a few of us seeding can change, no matter how much people like you will say it is.

Edited December 3, 2012 by bad_mojo

[ACow 102]

I think i would cream myself (with joy) if servers went expert.

[maxnmike 134]

You don't understand the mental mind set of a dayz player. If the server has less than 20-30 players, most of them won't join.(Or the ones that do will quit if more people join, because they want an empty server) Getting an expert server from 5-10 players to over 20 is an extremely rare occurance. And all it takes one hacking incident to drain it down to 5 again.

I spent the first 3 months playing dayz on ONLY expert servers. I've done the whole "seed for more than a couple days" and I can tell you it's fucking boring as hell. I might as well be playing in singleplayer. Sure, it can be amazing when the server rarely gets a population, but since I've switched to veteran servers I've had those amazing times on a daily basis.

I can have fun with the popular settings, but I know I would have more fun on my perfered settings. It's frustrating, and it's NOT something a few of us seeding can change, no matter how much people like you will say it is.

I do understand, but you seem to want to force a play style that the majority of the player base does not want. Even if all the servers went to expert settings you probably still have mostly empty servers because most people don't want to play that way. Personally I like the third person view and don't really care about the others. If they are enabled that's fine, if not, that's ok as well. Perhaps you guys can try and start an expert only thread on the forums to see if you can get enough players to support a few expert setting servers.While expert servers wouldn't be my thing I can understand that there are people that like to play that way.

[Reaven1911 48]

No, I would play more, people saying that servers should offer both players, they do, but about 10 people is the most I've seen on a first person only server, so if someone wants to play 1st person they either play on a low pop server or put themselves at a huge disadvantage

[sarkasm0 109]

I do understand, but you seem to want to force a play style that the majority of the player base does not want.

The majority does not want? I believe the real problem here is that players are literally forced to play on 3rd person by the very beggining, once you discover 3rd person you're never going back because it's simply superior to 1st person, Players nowadays are getting way too much used to 3rd person in shooters, because, you tell me, wouldn't you want to watch over walls and corners?

Personally I hate it, It doesn't feel immersive at all.

And lol about all the guys QQing about camera shake, I've played 1st person ONLY since the beggining and never, ever complained about the camera shake.

[B1rd_of_H3rmes 12]

To answer the question, NO. I would love it.

I live in Australia, and right now there is no first person servers at all. You do have a smaller FOV in fp, but seriously, you can still turn your head around independently, and scan an area as you would in real life. The way I see it, third person is something that everyone could live without. The issue of being able to see around corners and over walls destroys realism in cqb fights, and is a lot bigger issue to smaller FOV. Another example is that you can scan the area while you are in long grass and prone. So I agree with the other guy, make it so 3rd p you can`t see any players at least. DayZ is a hardcore survival game, for players that want 'easy mode' and unrealism, there is games like Call of Duty...

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

I do understand, but you seem to want to force a play style that the majority of the player base does not want. Even if all the servers went to expert settings you probably still have mostly empty servers because most people don't want to play that way. Personally I like the third person view and don't really care about the others. If they are enabled that's fine, if not, that's ok as well. Perhaps you guys can try and start an expert only thread on the forums to see if you can get enough players to support a few expert setting servers.While expert servers wouldn't be my thing I can understand that there are people that like to play that way.

I'd love to force my settings on everyone, because I believe DayZ would be better for it. But, I'm not actively trying to do that. I'm rather interested in this whole situation and read every topic about it on these forums. I find it strange that so many people(look at the replies in this thread alone) want expert servers, but so few expert servers have populations. I asked the question of this thread to see how people would react if expert settings were forced on you. I'm not suggesting it be done, I just wanted to see how people (like you) would react to the idea. I really just wanted to better understand the negativity around removing third person.

I don't believe expert settings will ever be forced, but I do believe that in the standalone it will not be such a huge divide. Rocket has already stated that things like waypoints, nametags and map markers will be gone. So going from regular to expert won't be such a giant leap for players in terms of difficulty. Right now, the only server setting without third person has the most difficult settings across the board. So people who dislike any one setting, will be stuck with third person.(According to the predefined difficulty levels)

Anyway, your initial comment about "the people have spoken" really bugs me in this discussion. Because the people haven't spoken, the server admins have spoken and the people are left with little choice in the matter. I'm guilty as hell for not seeding the expert servers I so badly want. Everytime I join a veteran server, I reinforce the "people have spoken" theory. Which is why I can clearly see that some people don't want third person, despite the majority of servers being third person enabled. It's a vicious circle.

Looking at the main hive servers...

-20 have more than 20 people. They all have third person enabled.

-17 have third person disabled. 6 have players, with 11 people on the top one.

There are more heavily populated third person servers than there are first person servers in total, empty or not.

[ElectricHead 3]

I'm not sure, but the ArmA II engine employs 3rd person for good reasons and it seems to be less-than-common knowledge.

In most FPS you are a disembodied perspective. In ArmA your body is more intrinsic to your presence in the game environment (hence head bob, "clunkiness" etc). In reality as three-dimensional beings we have an intrinsic connection to our bodies and an appreciation of our relative positioning within an environment. You don't get that in a virtual representation of 3D in a 2D medium (let alone the fact there are no physical sensations of pressure or contact). 3rd person facilitates this. FOV is also affected (although you can tweak this in 1st person obviously).

The "downside" is the ability to "peek" over walls, round cover, etc but whilst this is not perfect, I see this is a representation of having a mirror on a stick, or slight re-positioning to get the view, hoisting up onto a wall to look over, etc.

Fair enough if you think it's "cheap", I can understand that I guess (and this could maybe be restricted with limitations on the 3rd person camera angle?!), I just think it's a reasonable compromise for realism and I would miss it as a feature as it would, ironically, decrease immersion for me.

Actually, I could make a similar argument for crosshairs (though this is far less important) and whilst no kill messages would be "realistic" this is a game in the end, and I'm not sure I see the benefit there.

Bottom line: Expert with 3rd person enabled, I'd be fine with. Without? I'd cope. I'd prefer that over easy aids though, I not interested in name tags and definitely map blips on Day Z.

Options are nice, though, and I think for many (including me) that's too much/specific. There's a reason why the "expert" servers are empty isn't there? Because it's not popular for whatever reasons.

[Azrail (DayZ) 211]

And lol about all the guys QQing about camera shake, I've played 1st person ONLY since the beggining and never, ever complained about the camera shake.

There are Painkillers and Heatpacks, and if you really need to, you can always turn off head bob.

There are more heavily populated third person servers than there are first person servers in total, empty or not.

That is, because with or without the immersion, playing on an empty server noone wants to join is not fun.

We need people to kill, and a full server with 3rd person is the lesser evil then an empty server without.

I just hope for standalone to deal with this once and for all.

People WILL play first person only,

DayZ is just too awesome to ignore, not playing just because you can't see your character's ass would be silly.

Edited December 4, 2012 by Azrail

[Azrail (DayZ) 211]

*delete*

Edited December 4, 2012 by Azrail

[ahyokata 15]

I began playing in late May, and consistently played on a server that had no crosshairs and no 3rd person, and did this because at the time, the server was stable, and frankly, I enjoyed the immersion it brought with creeping through the grass amongst the nearby zombies (which would only stop chasing when they were dead). The firefights seemed more intense as well, and forced a different playstyle than having 3rd person. (granted I had headbob set to 0, and have never had motion sickness despite being in 30 foot seas on the Pacific)

After that, I joined up with a buddy playing on a 3rd person server and was amazed at how much easier it was with regard to spotting, and surveilling the area. In short, I would welcome 1st person only, but the fact that some unfortunate people get motion sickness from this setting, I doubt it will become a reality.

[Tourdion 11]

If they remove the bobbling when driving some vehicles im ok with that. (riding a bike offroad in first person makes me feel sick)

Edited December 9, 2012 by Tourdion

[Sutinen 635]

No... I'm playing on first person most of the time. You better chance your FOV.