Considering what's not working on DayZ

[Itsnotcrazyuntilchachacha 13]

More often than not, I see people complaining about endgame, game's objectives, and in general, about the very motivation of the game itself. Leaving aside the common answer, that's, you know, ''surviving bruh'',thing is they have a point.

You see, players who're in the luckier/more skilled side of things frequently see themselves in the following situation: All geared up, enough food to serve everyone around and his dog, and can't be bothered to waste ammo in zeds. So now what? I call fair question. I mean, at times this game seems to be all about collecting beans and hiding in a forest like, for the years to come. The thing is, why does this get to happen?

'Cause you know, The PvE and the environment as a whole are nowhere as challenging or thrilling as a zombie apocalypse should be.

Think about it: environmentally, there are no really scary encounters, but rather people just running around zeds ignoring them, everywhere, the only thrill being those situations when you're bleeding and have nothing around to patch you up. Zombies just spawn, stand there or patrol around like idiots. Pew pew, dead. C'mon.

Now Left 4 Dead has music, weather and light effects, not to mention in-game elements, such as waves, making zombie encounters thrilling even after, you know 10+ hours of gameplay, and a general know-how of the game mechanics. This being a multiplayer shoot'em up. You get inside a house with your pals, suddenly you just know you're gonna be trapped there for the next 15 minutes, fighting the hell for it as a horde of zeds shows up from nowhere and starts surrounding the building and stomping against doors and windows. And I think this is the kind of thing we could bring to Day Z. The thrill.

And don't even bring up the fact it's a progressive adventure game, I got it already. Still think many elements could be extrapolated.

So, what do you think about this game as a zombie -and therefore somewhat close to a horror- game?

tl;dr last 6 lines.

Edited November 14, 2012 by Itsnotcrazyuntilchachacha

[dekartz 315]

It's not a horror game at it's core. It's more geared towards survival with zombies being an obstacle to said survival. Also, the heavy scripting used in the L4D series wouldn't suit the sandbox design of DayZ

[rossums 2190]

As it is right now, there is nothing that can really be done.

It is a brilliantly made mod but the Arma II engine was just not equipped for handling this time of game - the standalone DayZ looks to fix this.

Here's a little excerpt from an interview with Rocket:

Improvements over the mod

• More weapons. Many of which are custom, "find at home" style weaponry. Cricket bat, anyone?
  
• Zombies will not switch to walking when indoors (once pathing for zambies is fixed and their lifecycle is implemented).
  
• More clothing and player customization, including colors and face.
  
• The humanity system will be fine tuned.
  
• More robust weather system, redesigned from scratch.
  
• Zombies will be much more frightening.
  
• Improved broken limb system.
  
• And entirely new hive syncing system.
  
• Improved anti-cheat measures.
  
• Improved player UI. The inventory is being reworked from scratch.
  
• The female character will be feature complete.
  
• Better performance, including faster loading.
  

New features

• A new map, "Chernarus Plus".
  
• Chernarus Plus will have more interactive (enter-able) buildings. Non-interactive buildings will be easier to spot.
  
• Hand combat, in addition to the melee weapons we already have.
  
• Dogs can be a survivor's companion. "Expect them to track, to warn you of danger, and to follow you. And then get shot. And then you QQ."
  
• There will be no safe areas on the map.
  
• A quiver for crossbow bolts.
  
• Weapon and gear degradation.
  
• A diary system, allowing other players to see notes left by you when you're offline, not around, or dead.
  
• A robust web interface, as previewed at Rezzed earlier this summer.
  
• Narrative that will describe the virus background.
  

I bolded some things that might be of interest to you. (Had to highlight them too, bold wasn't showing up well)

They are making the zombies an opponent that it's actually worth fighting rather than just stepping around, they will be a lot more deadly - this in addition to a new weather system which will affect your temperature etc it means the world in general is a lot more deadly.

No real easy way to get away from zombies anymore like running inside and letting them slow down, it's kill or be killed unless you can find a good way to ditch them.

My personal favourite is the weapon degradation system, your weapon slowly breaking down on you will mean that people will be a lot less inclined to just waste ammo on zombies and other players if it means that their weapon will break.

Just a few points to mull over, very good additions to the game imo.

Still retains the whole 'survival simulation' feel but with the zombies becoming a real obstacle rather than a minor annoyance.

Edited November 14, 2012 by Rossums

[JoeySTM 4]

I agree with you and think the real solution to your problem is just more zombies. Really if you have zombies wandering around the entire world so that you know there is no completely safe location would certainly hop up the intensity. I personally believe running into the woods should be just as scary, if not scarier than running into a city instead of it turning into a magical land of safety. Only time will tell though with the standalone release and Rocket certainly has hinted on improving these points.

[DrunkPunk 159]

weapon degradation system... finally, a feature i absolutely hate the sound of. i hope it's something reasonable, and not something where 20 shots from my gun will have a noticeable difference.

but to the OP, this is the thing about a player-driven experience. it requires you to actually find your own meaning in the game, and create your own objectives. with my 400 hours in, i'm still nowhere near ever reaching boredom in this mod. i always keep myself busy. because no matter how much high end gear i have, i always end up running out of ammo sooner or later, or finding the need to go in some direction, which results in encountering some group of players. this style of game is all about what you put into it.

i really do hope to see the ability to build bases, like in the wasteland mod. that'll add endless hours of goals to accomplish, as well as give more dynamic experiences.

Edited November 14, 2012 by DrunkPunk

[rossums 2190]

weapon degradation system... finally, a feature i absolutely hate the sound of. i hope it's something reasonable, and not something where 20 shots from my gun will have a noticeable difference.

i really do hope to see the ability to build bases, like in the wasteland mod. that'll add endless hours of goals to accomplish, as well as give more dynamic experiences.

From what has been discussed regarding the weapons degradation, I'm sure they don't want weapons to be constantly breaking but they want to implement wear and tear which may cause your gun to lose accuracy or cause jamming, rather than totally breaking. (Read this somewhere, can't find a source)

The base system sounds brilliant though. Rocket wants to implement the 'base building' feature where you dig underground into an instanced 'cave-like' area and you expand your base from there, adding wall supports, making it bigger, adding rooms, concrete bunkers etc. BUT these aren't safezones, if another player finds it they can easily go in, steal stuff, fight over a base among other things - it will provide great opportunities for more team-based fighting while allowing players to delve deeper into the story (Having a laboratory in the bunker to learn about the virus).

[daze23 549]

I agree with you and think the real solution to your problem is just more zombies. Really if you have zombies wandering around the entire world so that you know there is no completely safe location would certainly hop up the intensity. I personally believe running into the woods should be just as scary, if not scarier than running into a city instead of it turning into a magical land of safety. Only time will tell though with the standalone release and Rocket certainly has hinted on improving these points.

Namalsk now has zeds in the woods. the thing is the woods there are mostly those pine trees, so when a zed sees you, it usually then lose it's line-of-sight right away as you run through the trees. but it definitely complicates things as far as using zeds and peripheral dots to find other players

Edited November 14, 2012 by daze23

[electroban 102]

Give the game randomised spawn points, reduce the spawn of matches, hunting knife, canned goods, military weps and ammo for said military weps. Make the game so the player is forced to keep returning to cities. Increase weather condition severity, make sure you can die of hypothermia.

[HMS 115]

DayZ, the mod, and the standalone, fails in achieving its "sandbox" goal unless and until there are real consequences to shooting everyone you see.

CQC or a mile away, it does not matter. If the game fails to properly reward teaming up against the environment, and at the same time punish reckless behavior that is antithetical to surviving the end of the world as a species, then it will continue to be a grind interspersed wit griefing.

I don't care how many Zs you end up sticking out in the middle of the woods.

[Parasprite 35]

If the game fails to properly reward teaming up against the environment,

Teaming is already the most viable strategy, the problem is that teaming up with a random guy you meet is far inferior to a clan, squad, or friend. Communication in direct is very messy and unreliable compared to a prearranged teamspeak server.

[Grey Warden 90]

Make sniper rifles so god damn rare that they are as uncommon as a fully working heli is now. This will force many bandits into closer engagements and so more deadlier and more intense and personal.

Increase numbers of zeds and make them a danger, like grapples.

More CQC weapons like baseball bats, hammers, golf clubs, heck even a katana! (rare). Then make these weapons the most common of all types (except katanas and the such).

Ammo needs to be rare even for civilian guns. It should mean that every shot has to count.

Fuel needs to be rare.

Food needs to be very hard to come by except in cities where its dangerous as hell (more tight spaces like small alleys etc). Hunting for game should be hard as animals will run away from you if they hear you (think hunting deer). But things like traps and growing food should be available but takes a long time.

The ability to actually make a base and no i don't mean '20 tents in a castle base'. I mean the ability to fortify and maintain a 'stronghold' for you and maybe others to seek shelter and protection.

Just make everything rare so if you see a loot spawn its more than just "flares? pfft!" and instead it would hopefully be "wow i found some flares!". The game quickly becomes boring after say 1-2 hours of playing when you have everything you need to survive in the wild (hatchet, matches, knife, water bottle) so then you look for guns and then for players. People who aren't pvping are usually the ones still in the first 1-2 hours of new spawn. Even Heroes tend to get bored and start hunting bandits. Make this a longer time and also a more intense time as many more people will be looking for the items and might decide it would easier to just take what you found (actually a bandit then).

[Sticker704 121]

Gentlemen, chill your beans about the weapon degrading.

Q: If you are going the route of weapon degradation please for the love of the gods PLEASE don't make it break guns after 100 or so shots. I always hated in fallout how fast shit broke down. Modern weapons can take thousands of

rounds before showing any signs of slowing down unless inappropriate ammo or poor weapon maintenance is involved.

A: Agreed. Weapons should JAM not BREAK

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/72533-reddit-qa-with-rocket/

-

Anyways, it's been stated multiple times before that Rocket wants you to create your own narrative so to say. Not sure if this still happens, but clans used to use Devil's Castle as their base, and different clans on the server would try to take over. Was pretty cool.

Also, let me throw another quote at your face.

Q: Are there any plans on making zombies more frightening/scarier than they are now? Not in damage but in looks/sounds. I'm thinking of zombies jumping at you from a dark bush,zombies with open guts,bloodied zombies,.. They really aren't all that scary at the moment.

A: Absolutely. I would rate us as 1/10 for scariness at the moment. I want to go up to at least 7/10

[Itsnotcrazyuntilchachacha 13]

Your input is absolutely awesome.

Let me put it this way. There's this video that, to me, portrays many of the things this game would need to improve in order to make an entirely thrilling PvE experience. It's completely random and unrelated to the topic, but it sums up much of what DayZ is about and therefore, by watching it, many of the things show: (

).

As an example: around the 2:30ish, this bandit is sitting by the fire, all alone, at night, thinking about his stuff, which is something cool and touching.

However at the same time I'm like... where're the zombies? I mean, in an actual zombie apocalypse, this guy (anyone, given the case) would be in the deepest trench/hole he's been able to find, all surrounded by sandbag piles and barbed wire, praying for his life, while in the darkness he hears the mourns of the dead, and not being able to sleep, standing guard with whoever he was with. And this does not require heavy scripting. Only some, you know, decent FX effects, actual darkness, and maybe, maybe an script here and there that'd regulate random attacks / zed assaults, etc. in a completely aleatory way.

Edited November 14, 2012 by Itsnotcrazyuntilchachacha

[Sticker704 121]

However at the same time I'm like... where're the zombies? I mean, in an actual zombie apocalypse, this guy (anyone, given the case) would be in the deepest trench/hole he's been able to find, all surrounded by sandbag piles and barbed wire, praying for his life, while in the darkness he hears the mourns of the dead, and not being able to sleep, standing guard with whoever he was with. And this does not require heavy scripting. Only some, you know, decent FX effects, actual darkness, and maybe, maybe an script here and there that'd regulate random attacks / zed assaults, etc. in a completely aleatory way.

Well really, the reason why this doesn't happen, is because there are no zed in the countryside, just in towns. I'm sure if you threw a lot of zed in the forests and in the fields, then this would happen anyway and while I don't have a quote for it, I'm sure Rocket will put this in (once path finding is fixed, etc).

[electroban 102]

DayZ, the mod, and the standalone, fails in achieving its "sandbox" goal unless and until there are real consequences to shooting everyone you see.

CQC or a mile away, it does not matter. If the game fails to properly reward teaming up against the environment, and at the same time punish reckless behavior that is antithetical to surviving the end of the world as a species, then it will continue to be a grind interspersed wit griefing.

I don't care how many Zs you end up sticking out in the middle of the woods.

RIght so your obviously in favor of allowing players to have sex with female characters in game so they can procreate? Cos a bunch of dudes hanging out together doesn't actually make the game any less hard u kno, just a shit tonne more easy. Shooting some turd to get food is surviving.

Edited November 14, 2012 by electroban

[Dreygar (DayZ) 178]

My personal favourite is the weapon degradation system, your weapon slowly breaking down on you will mean that people will be a lot less inclined to just waste ammo on zombies and other players if it means that their weapon will break.

All for this, but agree I hope it's not... every 100 rounds your gun will jam, and I hope it also introduces ways to maintain your firearm. (Gun cleaning kits) My Walther P99 can shoot anything I want, over and over and that thing won't jam because it's just a well designed firearm. I clean it after every session just because I like to do preventative maintenance though. That goes for my service weapons that never failed on me because they were properly maintained.

Edited November 14, 2012 by Dreygar

[Dreygar (DayZ) 178]

Ramping up PVE is not going to change this game for the good. What changes this game is permadeath. People get tired of having to start over, and over, and over. Whether killed by a zombie or a player. I fully support permadeath and feel it is essential punishment, but I can also see how it encourages people to give up their peaceful routine and take a more aggressive approach.

Making zombies run indoors, is probably the worst thing I can see being implemented. No one will run indoors if that's the case, and they will just run with zombies trailing behind them... and if they make some zombies faster than players and able to hit on the run, then you'll die even more.

I forsee a lot of dying in the future, and no amount of teamwork will prevent that. Especially when, as suggested, ammo is rare you won't be able to engage that large hoarde of zombies. You won't be able to escape them either.

Someone can feel free to explain to me why this would be a good idea.

Edited November 14, 2012 by Dreygar

[Itsnotcrazyuntilchachacha 13]

Making zombies run indoors, is probably the worst thing I can see being implemented.

Sorry pal, but as much as I'd like to see things balance, not allowing zeds to behave similarly to how they do in other environments would be redundant.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all in for zeds falling more often, not coordinating their movement as the clumsy meatbags they're. All in as well for allowing players to throw chairs at them, push tables/furniture on them, etc. and I think that'd pretty much do the job.

[HMS 115]

I can try to offer one reason why that could be good, Dreygar.

If Zombies are more dangerous, can run indoors, and even hit on the fly, teamwork *will* help with that. Say you are being chased by a few Zombies... maybe they aren't faster than you, but you should certainly get winded whereas the Zs will not.

If you run into another player, it is in their best interest to shoot the zombies for you if possible. For one thing, unless there is a grudge against you, there is the humanity aspect. People don't like to see other people suffer. We know that doesn't apply to 90% of the users on this forum or any hi-pop server at this time so, for another, the same zombies chasing you will ultimately chase them - if they do the game right. Instantly, it is demonstrated to even the reluctant "Bandit" that we are all in this together.

If ammo is really rare, which it should be but there's no guarantee that it will be, then yes, this will be more difficult. Zombieland is a motherfucker, after all.

But, I don't believe the final product will make it so.

Electroban, I am aware of your provocative tone but I will answer anyway. No, I am obviously NOT in favor of procreating, since that adds a whole new level of hassle and difficulty to surviving. I would also suggest that "shooting some turd to get food" is actually not surviving. It may be "eating" if you get one meal out of it, but you certainly won't find the "turd"'s tent. You probably have nothing to worry about, because I don't hold much hope for the standalone being the game I wish it would be. You'll be able to shoot everyone you want and have no real consequence for it.

But if you watch any Zombie movies you know that a gunshot will call every Z within a mile - you shouldn't like those odds, but I doubt it will happen.

Edited November 14, 2012 by HMS

[Dreygar (DayZ) 178]

Sorry pal, but as much as I'd like to see things balance, not allowing zeds to behave similarly to how they do in other environments would be redundant.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all in for zeds falling more often, not coordinating their movement as the clumsy meatbags they're. All in as well for allowing players to throw chairs at them, push tables/furniture on them, etc. and I think that'd pretty much do the job.

You can test this with the current mod. Go run through a town, turn around with them running at you and try to hatchet them all to death without being killed. I'm really against the running "infected" period, but I think the indoors part is a good balance however redundant it may seem. I can just see myself running into a building hoping to fight off the zombies, and they'd be hot on my tail. Hardly enough time to push a table in front or grab a chair to throw at them. Would like to see them stumble and uncoordinated but then I can just imagine it being a run in circle till they fall over all rag-doll style.

Games like Dead Island were good but also melee weapons were pretty much a one-hit kill and the game was designed around the melee function. Plus the zombies that required multiple hits were super slow.

Just my .02, if the game moves in a direction that doesn't appeal to me then I won't play it. Pretty simple really.

[Dreygar (DayZ) 178]

You probably have nothing to worry about, because I don't hold much hope for the standalone being the game I wish it would be. You'll be able to shoot everyone you want and have no real consequence for it.

This is the way it should be and I know people disagree... but... there is no one to say "you can't do that" in a zombie apocalypse. Now say I walk up to someone and pop them for no reason while you observed from a distance. It is now your responsibility to decide if that was justified. Do you let me get away with it, or do you do something about it? I'm ALL for teamwork, I don't like the idea of people killing other people for no reason, but at the same time it's their choice and there should be no consequences except for how other people respond to it.

[Itsnotcrazyuntilchachacha 13]

You probably have nothing to worry about, because I don't hold much hope for the standalone being the game I wish it would be. You'll be able to shoot everyone you want and have no real consequence for it.

As opposed to what, calling in the CopZ?

I mean I really don't get this point when people bring it in. What are you expecting. Dude, you're gonna get killed, as much as I will. Get over it already, or you know, feel free to elaborate to the point that it makes sense.

[Dreygar (DayZ) 178]

As opposed to what, calling in the CopZ?

I mean I really don't get this point when people bring it in. What are you expecting. Dude, you're gonna get killed, as much as I will. Get over it already, or you know, feel free to elaborate to the point that it makes sense.

It's insecurity. They want to know if someone is good/bad. That ruins the tension. The tension is about the unknown. Do I trust them? I don't care if there is any indicator, but I think it will detract from the customization of the game.

[Hetstaine 10852]

Hopefully there will not be zeds everywhere, i have always agreed with the non safe zones, but we should not be constantly running 24/7 ..that will get old real quick. It will not make sense for their to be zeds everywhere in any case.

[Itsnotcrazyuntilchachacha 13]

You can test this with the current mod. Go run through a town, turn around with them running at you and try to hatchet them all to death without being killed. I'm really against the running "infected" period, [...]

I do agree with you in that the whole idea of rotten, organically malfunctioning meatballs running actually faster than you makes little, tiny sense if any. From that perspective, I'd be ten times more happy with Shaun of the Dead or you know, classic mobs of slow zombies whose main thrilling point was their number and persistence.