Basic (and controversial!) Tweaks. Look inside!

[Belrick 0]

Excellent post' date=' full of simple, common sense ideas which are well articulated. I completely agree with the suggestions you've laid forward, thank you for your effort in compiling them so well. I especially like the *gasp* controversial idea of having zombies run indoors as well as out!

[/quote']

I pitched that idea to a friend, and he really disliked it. I think we've been coddled a bit too much. Frankly put, so long as they walk so slowly like that indoors, zombies aren't much of a threat. Seeing as the clipping and attacking through walls will be fixed soon, as well as adding hiding from them and LoS aggro in the next patch, unless we ramp up the zombie difficulty I think we will see more death matchy stuff.

Again I want to stress that if someone wants to "deathmatch" that is fine and legitimate. I just feel that the incentives are far too weighed in one direction (against random team play). Tweaking the zombies could really be worth a shot.

[mrducky (DayZ) 33]

Though I like the suggestions, I would like to point out the following.

I did already try playing the game by about 10 times unarmed. Dropped all of my stuff right at spawn.

And how did it end up? Well, most often getting shot on sight by the other players. (No difference to wielding a weapon)

So, do I think that, for example, the bandits would somehow magically stop slaughtering the newly spawned players if they had no loot? No they would not.

And why not? Because they're not really killing for the beanz and shit. Beans are easy to find. You don't need to kill other players for that. They're killing because they feel bored / or feel that they have nothing better to do than to kill others. Or because they got fed up getting killed themselves and are now taking their revenge at the DayZ world. (And then there is of course the random occasional psychopath too, who just loves it and would do it in the real life as well, if there weren't laws and the fear of punishment to stop him.)

They would probably just thrive on the easier prey, not even bother being tactical or anything when there is no risk of retaliation (they would just probably walk right to your face an then shoot you at close range).

So... It would be an interesting experiment to remove the stuff at spawn, but I am highly doubtful it would solve anything. It would possibly even make it much worse.

One thing I might consider, is making the spawn gear asymmetric based on your game hours. Let the noobs keep their makarovs. They are still the ones trying to play cooperative survival until they realize the grim reality of the game.

But once you've killed enough/died enough times/or just clocked enough game hours - then the spawn weapons could just as well be removed from you. After those hours of playing you should already know where to find the weapons. It can also be considered persistence: At the start of the game you got gear at spawn, but when you keep dying for a few times, the consequence will be to lose that gear at spawn. (In real life, if you died just once, you wouldn't be back at all. In game life, just taking your starting makarov away, might be sufficiently harsh.)

I would not mind having no gear at spawn if I died (been there, done that). But I wouldn't put the total noobs in that position. Because they're already f*cked as it is.

As with the zombie tweaks.. Those might help with the "makarov bandits" at cherno/elektro. But as if those were the only problem. They can be avoided by not going there.

The issue is with all the other random encounters and the bandits (at north as well). And those guys are well equipped, know what they are doing, stay in the bushes/hills and are probably going to snipe you from far away anyway. What effect would deadlier zeds in the towns have on that?

Well, life for the friendly survivors would become even more difficult. At least now you can risk moving fast in and out of the towns, taking the risk of aggroing some individual zeds and dealing with them - thereby minimizing your exposure to the real threat that's trying to scope you. Make the zeds more difficult to deal with requiring even more slow and careful movement around the towns, and oh hell.. the sniping bandits are just gonna have you served on a silver platter.

So... In conclusion, though the suggestions are good in principle, they also pose a risk of causing just the opposite they were trying to achieve.

[grease 0]

Amazing idea really

[dissaifer 3]

I agree with making the zombies run in building, but currently this is an Arma 2 issue with pathing and not something the rocket can fix with scripting.

if people agree with this you need to go to https://dev-heaven.net/ and insert a ticket. Once the ticket is added, other people need to vote on it. The devs are really good about addressing popular issues.

[Belrick 0]

Though I like the suggestions' date=' I would like to point out the following.

I did already try playing the game by about 10 times unarmed. Dropped all of my stuff right at spawn.

And how did it end up? Well, most often getting shot on sight by the other players. (No difference to wielding a weapon)

So, do I think that, for example, the bandits would somehow magically stop slaughtering the newly spawned players if they had no loot? No they would not.

[/quote']

I never felt that they would magically stop. I thought that increasing the power of zombies would make them think twice.

Perhaps I am not good at showing it, but my main concern isn't actually bandits, its your regular player who will shoot on sight first, because at the moment, not shooting on sight is a ticket to death. We can never fix the bandit mindset (and shouldn't!) but we can add incentives to think first for those who don't just kill for fun.

As well, when its just you who is missing your gun, while everyone else is armed, I don't think that will go anywhere.

** THE BIG thing here is that most players killing other players now aren't bandits and don't want to be. They have to kill other players because there is little to no reason currently to work together, and without something like bandit skins (which I am glad they took out, though) organic relationships in game don't develop**

I am not a bandit type but when I am playing with my friend, its shoot on sight. Why? Because we just can't tell who is bad or good, and we just cannot risk it. We've died too many times to play any other way. Now, we don't go out of our way to kill players, but if you come across us, then we have to shoot.

Again, read my examples, I want to fix the mindset of non-bandit players.

And why not? Because they're not really killing for the beanz and shit. Beans are easy to find. You don't need to kill other players for that. They're killing because they feel bored / or feel that they have nothing better to do than to kill others. Or because they got fed up getting killed themselves and are now taking their revenge at the DayZ world. (And then there is of course the random occasional psychopath too' date=' who just loves it and would do it in the real life as well, if there weren't laws and the fear of punishment to stop him.)

They would probably just thrive on the easier prey, not even bother being tactical or anything when there is no risk of retaliation (they would just probably walk right to your face an then shoot you at close range).

So... It would be an interesting experiment to remove the stuff at spawn, but I am highly doubtful it would solve anything. It would possibly even make it much worse.

One thing I might consider, is making the spawn gear asymmetric based on your game hours. Let the noobs keep their makarovs. They are still the ones trying to play cooperative survival until they realize the grim reality of the game.

But once you've killed enough/died enough times/or just clocked enough game hours - then the spawn weapons could just as well be removed from you. After those hours of playing you should already know where to find the weapons. It can also be considered persistence: At the start of the game you got gear at spawn, but when you keep dying for a few times, the consequence will be to lose that gear at spawn. (In real life, if you died just once, you wouldn't be back at all. In game life, just taking your starting makarov away, might be sufficiently harsh.)

I would not mind having no gear at spawn if I died (been there, done that). But I wouldn't put the total noobs in that position. Because they're already f*cked as it is.

[/quote']

Not sure about asymetiric spawn gear. I'll have to think before I give my opinion, but I think most people believe spawn gear changes would help.

As with the zombie tweaks.. Those might help with the "makarov bandits" at cherno/elektro. But as if those were the only problem. They can be avoided by not going there.

The issue is with all the other random encounters and the bandits (at north as well). And those guys are well equipped' date=' know what they are doing, stay in the bushes/hills and are probably going to snipe you from far away anyway. What effect would deadlier zeds in the towns have on that?

Well, life for the friendly survivors would become even more difficult. At least now you can risk moving fast in and out of the towns, taking the risk of aggroing some individual zeds and dealing with them - thereby minimizing your exposure to the real threat that's trying to scope you. Make the zeds more difficult to deal with requiring even more slow and careful movement around the towns, and oh hell.. the sniping bandits are just gonna have you served on a silver platter.

[/quote']

First, the coast is in integral part of the game, not going to Cherno / Elec / Balota / coast place X is bad, because this is where these natural player groups will most likely form.

I completely disagree with everything you said in this last part of your post. I don't believe that sniping bandits are a problem at all. Why is this a problem? Its a legit playstyle. Any fixes aimed at changing this are misguided.

As well, moving fast is what gets you spotted: Your eye will notice fast moving objects easier, and if it doesn't, it will notice that train of zombies following you. Slow movement, purposeful movement that is conscious of line of sight will DECREASE exposure to both zombies and bandits. Now let me clarify slow doesn't mean walk everywhere. Slow could also mean sprinting from one fence to another, wait, look around, and gather your senses.

Bandits and other play groups in the north should be a real threat; it'd be a lame game if you could get all the best gear with little effort. Why would they not fight over it?

So... In conclusion' date=' though the suggestions are good in principle, they also pose a risk of causing just the opposite they were trying to achieve.

[/quote']

Again, because perhaps I am bad at writing, I want to stress these suggestions are not about solving a "Bandit problem" (There isn't a bandit problem, and bandits are awesome). These suggested tweaks are about solving the issue of why regular players will choose shooting on sight over a live and let live or team up attitude.

They happen to naturally hurt unintelligent bandits who run through towns gunning folks down at will, but I don't really think that's a major issue.

Again, I just want to stress this is not some anti-bandit suggestion. Organized sniping bandit groups who set up traps and such are simply awesome, and make for a great game.

---

I agree with making the zombies run in building' date=' but currently this is an Arma 2 issue with pathing and not something the rocket can fix with scripting.

if people agree with this you need to go to https://dev-heaven.net/ and insert a ticket. Once the ticket is added, other people need to vote on it. The devs are really good about addressing popular issues.

[/quote']

Hmm its unfortunate that this is a bug. It would be great if we could mobilize enough folks to fix the issue.

[Cattra 1]

Nice well thought out points and discussion in this thread. I like it! I think zombies need to be sped up a bit in the buildings, not maybe as fast as out in the field (And I know its a bug), but enough that it still gives you some panic rather then run into the building and then just turn around and stand three feet from the door and take down wave after wave of the undead.

[Belrick 0]

Yeah, I also wonder how people would start playing if zombies did much more damage.

[mikyjax 3]

Totally support this thread.

Op is 100% right.

To bad the "zombie walking inside" depends of arma engine. Still that would be awesome to change it.

In another hand, if we attract more zombie when shotting and ammo are less common, they can be walking inside they will be a HIGH threat.

We should start with only a Watch. That can give you the north with the sun and it s realistic to have one. Gun, ammo, food, medical supply... is just a reason for people to shoot you your first minute of gameplay.

In the new patch it will be possible to hide from z after agro theim it will add an interresting mechanic with the "no gun at start"

The zombie eating people you have to loot seems logical and interresting too. And if you want to outrun zombie it should be interresting to bring theim to a body you saw earlier. Zombie should prefer a frech dead body than running after a living one.

Let s say only 5 z's can be eating a body so if your followed by 10 you still have 5 z at your back.

Zombie eating a corpse shouldn't be attract by gunshot since they already have what they want.

Dead body should have a "eating life" wich means more zombies are eating same time, earlier they will stop. Once a body has been totally eaten it should desapear with all its loot, that will reduce player running to their body position after spawn and be a pain in the arse for team using teamspeak waiting for their friend to come back.

Thanks for the thread, very interresting one.

[Belrick 0]

The zombie eating folks isn't original. They do eat people, but I just feel perhaps they should be attracted to dead corpses and not just people they kill.

Also, remember an update ago where there were about 1200 instead of just 500 or so. That was great fun, but perhaps a bit too much for most people.

I think we the LoS update, one could toy with adding more zombies on a server.