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Day Z's economy at this point is gear and vehicles, all conflict centers around these objects or where players aquire these objects. I don't think this is that far off from EVE, its just that DayZ's currency is bullets. Also there are no safe zones in DayZ as there are in eve so the player base is more violent, because there is no option to be peacefull. I don't think you understand or maybe don't appreciate what a sandbox is. In Day Z you can do whatever you want and other players can do whatever they want to help, oppose, or just shit on your experiance. Example: A group of players decides they want to become bandit overlords so they occupy all major cities and military locations. Anyone who tries to enter these locations is killed so as to keep the rest of the populace under equiped and starving. The bandits then send out groups to disburse food and notify players they can be fed at location x, now players amass at location x. The bandits now tell them they will do xyz or they won't be fed and instead will be killed. Now the bandits have a slave army. Another example would be free side trading company, they are an in game merchant organiztion the emergent gameplay they generate can be complimented by other players trading or bandits trying to steal from them. This is what a sandbox is about, allowing players to do what they want. Some player would rather know that they can do x here or y there and get z as a reward ie WOW than generate their own experiances in game. Alot of emergent game play is effected by current exploits or mechanics or lack there of. These things will be cleared up as the mod gets older or in standalone, they are a bigger problem with game play than testing so they are not a huge priority at this point. As far as the status of the mod, the fact that you say its beta doesn't make your point more valid than another person who says its alpha. Really the *mod* is a poc (proof of concept) that was not designed to be alpha or beta, but an example that could convince studios that this type of game could be successful. I could make a mod and throw it on an ftp and have it be complete crap this doesn't mean its alpha nor does the fact that you can download it make it beta. Societies are formed when people are willing to trade in an amount of their personal freedom for security. As we can all attest life in Dayz is violent, when players are willing to trade in their own freedom in game, ie your being told what to do and your actually doing it, then societies will form in game. This has already occured with many small groups and some rather large groups, (See FreeSide) Most early societys are ruled by the beast you know, ie a group or individual thats nastier than all the other nasties and thus can protect people who are to weak to deal with the other nasties. I agree that this is and should be a simulation, that doesn't mean its reality. The goal is to generate authentic interactions and emotions from players, when this occurs players behave in an authentic way that is fairly standardized as each player has basically the same experiance in the simulation. Like it or not the behaviour that *is* authentic is kill every other SOB out there so they don't kill you and if you get there stuff its a bonus. As I said once players are willing to trade in their own freedoms in game then this will change, this could be through mechanics or gamification (This would suck) or it would be because players form societies. I think most players will quit before this point and another majority will refuse to realize that they are not the cream of the gentic crop in game (they suck) and will simply continue on their current path. Also group or society size will be limited to the number of players that are usefull. If your freeside you need alot of people if you want to make a sweet tent city with uber loot you only need 4 or 5. Because its a true sandbox players are also left with the choice of how ambitious they want to be. I do agree that specialization needs to be added to the game, Rocket has talked about adding this through a skill system so I'm sure its in the works. For not being alpha there is alot of testing of how to mold a concept into a game... Read it, everything you said was said by someone else earlier in the thread. You should read it.... Since you thought long and hard about it I guess I'll take your word for it? I also think you should follow your own advice, "Don't count on others sharing your views". No one can say how a scenario would work IRL if it never happend, you can only look at the examples or scenarios that mostly resemble it. Throwing pop culture out the window and looking at historical examples of modern society collapsing or at examples prior to society existing should give us clues. How did people live prior to society- ----------Small family/tribal groups --------------- Pretty close to DayZ How did people act prior to society------------- Groups fought over territory and resources -------- Again pretty close to Day Z How violent/shitty were people to each other before society- -----Pretty shitty thats why they gave up their freedom to form societies -----We're there people just aren't ready to give shit up yet... How did people live when society collapsed- -------Small family/friend groups (Some sheep still do what the government says (See super dome)) -----Again pretty close How did people act when society collapsed- ------People were so afraid and desperate they killed each other just 24 hours after Katrina---- Sounds like DayZ How violent/shitty were people to each other after society collapsed-------- Look at the superdome, rape and murder with tons of bystanders. Look at the Horn of Africa now, we can be pretty nasty to each other.----Just like DayZ

Introduce Trains: indestructible moving vehicles. When inside one, you are invincible, but once left alone anyone can use this vehicle.Flue is coal found at medium>high industrial locations. Spray paint: players can tag areas so gear can be found faster. E.x. tag a wall above a military spawn with a X. Spray paint will have a symbol system of predetermined objects. Such as the X example or an arrow. Colour could be introduced and even glow in the dark paint(would only area during night time, much like chemlights; that could not be extinguished.)

We're currently a group of two squads of 8 and we'd like to expand to a few more groups or perhaps bolster the current squads with more active members. What we're currently working on: - A base camp (We've already established a spot, but has been hampered by tents not saving items.) - Vehicles. What we're looking for: - No Bandits. - Players that are 18 years old of age or above (However, maturity trumps all.) - Please have a microphone. We will be communicating through teamspeak. - Active players. (Three nights a week would be a good number to shoot for.) - Not necessarily a requirement, but please note most of us live in the Eastern Time Zone. Above all else, we're just looking for players that we can have fun playing with. If you are interested, please contact me either through the forums or steam(steam id same as forum name). Alternatively, you can contact one of our Squad Captains, XanderSause(steam id: armywolf).

I wouldn't mind a complete reset if you're going to reset tents and vehicles. Why not go all the way?

Dear deagle of US 816, We have been raiding your car park that is surrounded by dozens of sandbags and barbwire fences. In it we have found many interesting things, ghillie suits and NVGs out the ass, as well as about twenty MK 17 SD ammo, no gun sadly. We even found a useable chopper on your server and had a hell of a time cruising around until you restarted the server. Ever since then we have been poking around your camp. One day after snooping around for an hour we blew up the camp. That night we also took one of your many cars and went for a joy ride where we happened to run into you in the Ural. Everyone was killed but still your camp was blown to bits, even after your attempt to reset the server. Just a the other day we raided your camp again and blew up what was remaining when one of you showed up. He was killed but shortly after you reset the server yet again. We did yet a third strike that same day, killing two people in your camp. As we were getting ready to blow up the vehicles again, you reset the server, for a fourth time. Yesterday two of the people in my group decided to pay you a visit with out me. They ended up killing you while you were in a truck, 15seconds later they were laughing their asses off because you shut down the server AGAIN. The server remained off until just a few hours ago. I went in solo today, sometime after 10:30pm (-7GMT), to scope out the camp. When I felt it was safe I went and blew up your camp. I was out of bombs but I knew there was at least one left in a tent near where your camp is on a different server. After grabbing it I logged back into your server, I instantly noticed the Ural parked there and knew you were in your camp. As I waited in the bushes for several minutes I watched as you and your buddy "Alex" run around your camp. At one point Alex started coming towards me, most likely because he saw the old bike I took for a spin in the trees next to me. I ended up killing him and then turning to you, (quick question, why the hell do you two carry 50 cals at night?). Pretty sure I shot you (I failed at aiming) before you logged out like a pussy, FYI your server says NO COMBAT DODGING. FINALLY I had the chance to take out that Ural. I sprinted to the Ural, placed a bomb, ran 75meters and blew it. Some how it disappeared from the map and I was not able to save it in a burning state like we did to your buses, I guess the bomb really messed it up. I moved to the south tree line to setup overwatch on the camp waiting for you to log back in so I could finish you. No server restart this time... I was impressed. Until I got the "You have been kicked." message, twice. For those wondering about the number of bombs used, every time you place them and the server restarts or you log off the bombs go back into your bag, don't know if it is a bug or intended. List of people we have killed so far in your camp: deagle Schwarz Jesus Christ Alex Eric https://www.gametrac...244.83.74:2332/ Link to the game tracker page for deagle's server. Check the historical data for the last 7days. Noticed the MASSIVE dead zones? That is the server being turned off minutes after our raids. ALSO just as I was writing this (12:00am -7GMT) I refreshed the GT page and the server is offline. AGAIN. Seriously. With our mission to destroy your base and vehicles complete we move to a new mission, hunt you and your group. I will abandon the camps on my servers and run around with 4+ man kill squads on yours. I am sure that we now have far greater fire power than your group and we may even outnumber you at this point. We will stalk your group members waiting for the perfect time to strike from all directions, which is actually hard on your server since you have name tags on which can give away our position. (Very annoying to have name tags) I will be posting several videos of our encounters soon so that everyone can see how you operate with your server restarts. Yes, I recorded almost every encounter we have had with you and your group :). First night: http://youtu.be/SkmwaQCacds Audio is choppy towards the end due to not setting up the recording properly. Ambush from the hills: http://youtu.be/ItwmT8ocQn0 Spent about 15minutes planning this ambush, could have done it with just two snipers but four people just makes it more fun. Apparently I can't put more videos in this post. Videos can be found here: http://www.youtube.com/user/MoonFragranceLoL/videos

Hi, Its still possible to dupe with vehicles, I came across it just now on accident (I wont use it as it wrecks the game) but its still possible. DayZ devs i can tell you if you PM me.

Your right. We should wipe all tents, all vehicles, and everything else everyone has worked hard to get. Yes, I found 3 pairs of NVG on my Heli crash run, and put them in a tent for my clan, just so they can be wiped. I agree with this. /Sarcasm.

Let me put it his way. Battleye has nothing to do with DayZ. It is a external company Bohemia paid for cheat protection. In the same way EA pays Punkbuster for theirs. How script detection works: The way script detection works is by Arma2 calling a BattlEye callback function notifying it with that a script was executed, and then BattlEye sends the script to the server, and in the server some analysis are done based on a blacklist, in order to determine if the script is legit or not. Also this is all encrypted. Here's how it works under-the-hood: When a player presses OK/Continue in the lobby, Arma2 Loads BEClient.dll 1. When a player joins a server Arma2 Loads BEClient.dll 2. When the load is done Arma2 Calls the BattleEye exported Init Function: 3. When it's all done and script's are executed an Arma2 Function calls the BattlEye Callback Function with the script code 4. You press abort disconnect and BattlEye is unloaded and so the process repeats. BattleEye does pattern scans on all running process looking for cheat engine, wpe or other hack tools. - No one is banned for using non-hack programs (like Fraps, overlays, etc.), picking up or using hacked in-game items, weapons or vehicles, being on a server at the same time as a cheater, or other passive non-cheating activity. Therefore all requests mentioning these things as possible reasons for the global ban are ignored. - A shared or stolen cd-key is no excuse. It's your own responsibility to ensure that no one else has access to it.

Vehicle hoarding= Having more vehicles then needed. You only have 6 people in your clan? A uaz is good enough. You only have 2 people in your clan? a Pickup is good enough. If you have more then that, consider yourself hoarding.

I see and somewhat agree with both sides of the argument. Those that "hoard" have put time and effort into grabbing vehicles and probably repairing, and refueling them to the max. However, a group of 5 with more than three vehicles is rather dickish (IMHO you shouldn't be running around solo anyway in this game, especially in a large target like a vehicle). So how do we solve this? 1. All land vehicle spawns are randomized along all roads! You'll find "cars" along the paved roads, ATVs, Tractors, on unpaved roads.Trucks and military vehicles will be found along all roads (Military vehicles will be found at military installations as well). A bus will ALWAYS spawn in the larger cities when it spawns. Motorcycles will spawn everywhere, near roads of course. This will make them easier to find initially, and a randomized spawn location will help prevent farming of them, making finding them more luck of the draw and not who got on the server first. 2.Vehicles must have fuel in their tanks.If they don't have fuel in their tanks for more than 2 server resets they respawn. 3. Vehicles will leak fuel at a rate of 1/10th the fuel tanks capacity a day even if repaired. If someone jacks your ride and abandons it then it's eventually going to go back into the spawn pool. Also this encourages people to drive their vehicles/search for fuel and not store/hoard them 4. Fuel cannot be stored on the vehicle itself. So no grabbing a car and running around all over to fill the thing up with jerry cans. 5. Bicycles will spawn near the starting spawns at random. However if you dismount from them they will disappear. This is so they can be used more readily by people who have just respawned. However falling off a bicycle is likely to cause you to have a broken bone(that sound balanced?) What does this do for everyone? Well if a person(s) are just going to sit on their pile of cars suddenly they will have to scavenge more, mainly for fuel. This could push people to fight over it, much like people would in such a situation as DayZ presents. Adding another (late game) element of survival into the game. And another issue that could be addresed (hoarding vehicles to use for storage) on this is also coding in another tent or two in the game (once the first one gets fixed cause they're still buggy) a smaller one that is about as common as a upgraded backpack that stores as much as a Czech pack and a larger one that shares the spawn percentage with the coyote pack and has twice the storage capacity?

Why not? An inventory wipe of tents and vehicles would be doing far more good than harm, in my opinion. I realize a great many people have worked hard to accumulate everything they need to live for months in game if they choose. Again, I am willing to give up my hard earned items to balance the game. We will not have these things forever anyhow, but there are thousands of "counterfeit" items in the game at the moment that are flat out breaking the vision of the mod.

Vehicles are also part of the issue. Gonna wipe them as well?

28.07.2012 - Serverupdate - Serverside files were updated to Hive v0.7.2 - Using now latest Anti-Cheat Script.txt Changelog of Hive v0.7.2: * [FIXED] Vehicles with ID's above 1 million don't syncronize. * [FIXED] First object in the database not being loaded > Maybe now vehicles won't despawn anymore, give it a try and tell us your testresults. P.s.: I can't confirm yet that choppers are online again. i only know that they will come soon (within the next days). To be the first, you have no other option then to play at DE 10 and find/repair it before all other :)

You do know the tractor is one of the weakest vehicles in game right? I would of shot the tire or engine a couple times ,and then let the explosion do the rest.

nvm delete this, apparently vehicles are now spawning after 4 days of nothing heh

LMAO well, it seems we both ruined some other groups day! 1 of our supply depots got hit the other day n thats what we thought u were talking about. it had a different number of vehicles at it than george3011 said, which confused me, and it wasnt west of Myshkino but nearish, which also confused me. then i saw deXXXa's pic and instantly recognised the location as id been there a few times with [TL] clan when i played with them. so we thought it was urs n went to pay u a visit but no1 was home so, with revenge in our eyes, we went about our evil business (freix's pic)! i guess u just raided 1 or 2 of the many, many other groups that are regulars on our server. so thanks for the intel! if u find any more, be sure to let us know and we will dispatch our specialy trained wild life protection team to clean the area! :lol:

There is the challange to fix the vehicles before you can use it, currently. I think the map was created for vehicle use, it's just too big for running... Since i have vehicles i don't even consider walking 100 meters anymore... ._. But running 8 Kilometers? No thanks...

I have had a graphical bug before like this (not due to vehicles) on a different server. I play regularly on UK 116 PTG (part of the clan) and we try and get rid of hackers asap. We found an SUV the other day, which we presume was hacked into the game.

so I was playing earlier today then went for a nap and came back and this was the error I was getting ( Data file too short ' c:programfiles ( x86)/steam/steamapps/common/arma2operationarrowhead/expansion/addons/anims_e.pbo'. Expected 42294311 B got 6553600 B Dont know if anyone has seen this or knows what im talking about cause i did not upload the picture of the error. Another slightly less crappy thing when I have been playing the past few weeks the game does not load roads for me, everything is a dirt road, and that shit sucks when I have vehicles.

The edge of map where people hide stuff is fairly large, and not everyone has the time to search every square kilometer of it for the 10+ cars people stashed up there. Combined with bandits often guarding their camps and admins restarting their servers and locking it as soon as someone touches their stuff and most people won't ever be able to get a vehicle. First of all the spawns of vehicles should be more random so that a clan can't just lock their server for an hour and already have every vehicle found and driven off map. Second cars should re spawn quicker, not after a week of non-use but a couple of days, people should actively use their vehicles, not use them as storage or trophy's. There are two sides of people to this problem, the idiot entiteld kids who think they should be able to find and keep every vehicle on the map and the idiot entitled kids who want to expend no effor finding the vehicles. The only positive thing to the current situation is that if you know where to look you can easily find a hoarder stash of perfect conditioned vehicles.

I found a Mountain Dew. Just wondering if you see any value in a can of that lol. Would love to trade it for something practical like a gun, as I don't really have any tents or vehicles to store it in for collector purposes.

Its far to easy to get some of the best gear in the game simply by running arround the northern edge of the map where all the tents seem to be. Whats the point of having loot spawn when you can just raid peoples camps? I've tried destroying all the tents and vehicles that I find but there are far to many. How is it a survival game when all the best stuff can be found in one spot?

It does the same if you try and put extra stuff (beyond the limit) in vehicles.. or bags too sometimes from what I've seen.

Could you guys have a form of decency and actually try and address his concerns instead calling him a whiny kid and other insults. I myself don't care much for vehicles as they are more of a convenience rather than an actual necessity to play the game. Still, the only true way to limit this issue to randomize spawns as suggested above to any city or town on the map itself. Actually block off the maps borders entirely (if possible) and lower the time it takes for them to re spawn. Complaining that people are hoarding is no different than multiple groups grabbing 1 vehicle and storing for there own use. To me this just sounds like your not getting what you want when you want it.

Same happened to our tent and vehicles. Restarting soon.