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This isn't something that is banable. The thing is with TS3 ghosting, you can just ban/get them banned from the TS server you're on, but they're technically doing nothing illegal in game which was clarified by Rocket. This is the risk you take when you stream. Delaying your stream can be a way to slightly counter this.

Stream sniping is actually something that I believe sc2 people came up with, people who queue when you queue etc and try to come against you, not if they watch your stream. and "stream cheating" is what they call it when the player you're playing against is watching your stream, not really cheating. It's called ghosting, something you did when you was young you watched your friends monitor on the left/right to see their position but now you watch a stream.

Ghosting. One dude flies around on spectator mode spotting goods and players alike, while reporting back to his playing team mates via TS.

Shouldn't you be able to give unregistered users the capability of creating passworded temporary channels? Wouldn't that solve your problem of TS ghosting? Not without giving them blanket access to create Temp channels anywhere in the server, due to TS's permissions hierarchy making it an all-or-nothing proposition. Also not an acceptable solution. There is the option of channel group assignment to permit child channels of certain specific channels but this runs into channel depth conflict, max channel conflicts, and may require admin intervention anyway, making it a non-solution. Edit: There's also the undeniable reality of user ignorance. Using myself as a baseline, every user who connects has the right to the level of security I enjoy. Teaching the users how to effectively use TeamSpeak through channel descriptions is a non-starter and far less efficient compared to a TOS (Compare: "DO NOT COMMIT STALKING ON MY PRIVATE SERVER" hand-written in two languages and machine translated into another five with "Click this, now find this, then type this, then go back and message people on TS (not in game if you don't want people to know your pass!) then blah blah blah" hand translated into two languages and machine translated into five). It's inefficient compared to the other solution. Any solution less efficient than any other solution is not a solution.

Shouldn't you be able to give unregistered users the capability of creating passworded temporary channels? Wouldn't that solve your problem of TS ghosting?

I must also say, with regards to this thread in particular and why I resigned my hosting duties (FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DON'T THINK THE CHITOWN ORIGINALS ARE GONE, THEY'RE STILL RUN BY OWL), I think everybody needs a little clarification. I stated yesterday that the rules were standardized as a franchise, and if franchisees did not like the rules the parent brand provided, they could sever their relationship with them. I didn't like the rules; I severed my relationship. It was that simple. In regards to ALT-F4'ing: earlier in this thread, rocket made reference to EVE as a primary example of emergent gameplay and meta-gaming (and I love EVE and all its general dickfuckery). One of the things you couldn't do in EVE was just ... log out. Have a Titan sitting in a POS in nullsec and try to avoid losing it when the POS drops? (For non-EVE players, read that as "Do you have a giant, very expensive spaceship it took you months to develop the skills to pilot, sitting inside an invulnerable forcefield in a place where no AI guards protect newbies, and you don't want it destroyed when your opponents overwhelm the player-owned station generating that force field") Well, you can't. It's going to blow up and you're going to lose that ship and no amount of quitting will save you during PvP, and the only solution then is to disband BoB and move across the map. So, no amount of ALT-F4'ing will save you on my server. You will just lose access to the server. Or would have or should have, anyway. "We stalked a guy for an hour and then he left" isn't death dodging. People have lives and aren't there to die at your command. On the other hand, "we shot a guy twice, he disconnected, came back ten minutes later from a different position, and killed us" well get you got. "I had to stop playing" doesn't fly when you either a) have a pattern of behaviour of dropping every time a person engages you or b) don't stop playing. Regarding ghosting on TeamSpeak: Again referencing EVE and metagaming, I have zero problem betraying groups, spying on them, stalking them, and eavesdropping. None. It's happened, people have come to me as an administrator, and my reaction is "well, too bad." There is a point, however, where metagaming goes too fucking far. Back to EVE: When Goonswarm/Goonfleet took down BoB and BoB's offshoot corporations in EVE, part of the way that was done was with metagaming. That metagaming involved managing an "asset" in their group, a spy with high-level access. It did NOT involve violating third party TOS's. In fact, when The Mittani got himself onto the CSM, one of his presentations at the world's largest collection of spreadsheet Asperger's was to state that a player who had messaged the goons in game making suicidal ideations should be encouraged to "kill himself". Welcome to metagaming gone too far. This is undoubtedly metagaming. After all, how can a person act against you, be an opponent, cause a risk to your assets, if they aren't even alive to play? Of course, this is the whole "going to far" bit. CCP eventually decided that this metagaming was, in fact, a breach of the EULA. Now, there's a gradient between attempting to hound other players suffering mental illnesses into suicide and putting spies in their ranks, but let's start by defining what is black and what is white. Here is why I believe ghosting on TS is going too far: FIRST AND FOREMOST, IT ELEVATES THE ADMINISTRATORS OR FRIENDS OF ADMINISTRATORS OR SERVER REGULARS TO SEMI-GODMODE. Why? Because it allows a level of protection on their communications that pick-up groups and irregulars don't have. On our TeamSpeak server, we have private channels created for my guys, Monolith (composed of several Goonfleet/Goonswarm vets from disparate groups, ironically enough) and Owl has Rho Squad, an entire GF/GS fucking squad. Again, ironically enough. Other administrators to the TeamSpeak server can create channels and groups. If asked by any player on the server to create a private channel, they are under standing instructions to do so, either passwording the channel for ad hoc groups that ask for one, or creating an entire user group/permission system that restricts entry only to those assigned to that group. This allows communications security that can only be properly penetrated by a mole, which, again, I'm fine with. What the irregulars and PUGs on the server don't have is that. If they come into TeamSpeak and form an ad hoc group, there is no ability to police that group against forceful penetration. There are, however, checks against regulars and admins having their group forcefully penetrated. As such, it creates a layer of communications security available to administrators and TS/Server regulars unavailable to pick-up players, and as such elevates us above those players, which directly conflicts with my philosophy that all players can and in fact must play on a level playing field. The only way to effectively combat this is to create a penalty, a loss of priveleges, to effectively emulate 24/7 administrator presence. I do this by creating publicly open channels and an EULA/TOS that clearly states that a public channel is owned by the first person to enter it and, for the purposes of accessing that channel, may only be done so on their graces. Entering that channel without permission is tantamount to breaking a zero-character password. You consent to this when you enter the TeamSpeak server. You understand that you are breaking a zero-character password, that this represents a security threat, and that doing so is considered by me equal to asking me directly to be blocked from any server access at the socket level. Following people through channels is just another way of directly asking me, "may I please be blacklisted in the firewall?" Well, since you were so polite about it, yes you may. This is (or was) made very clear on every channel throughout the server (though I have since removed it since relinquishing my duties) so that no person may plead ignorance. Think you won't go to jail for breaking and entering because their front door had no lock? Think you won't go to jail for shoplifting because the store had no cameras up? Think you won't go to jail for rape because she wasn't wearing a chastity belt? You're very wrong. Locks, cameras, and other security measures exist as a prevention/mitigation system, not as something that, if lacking, gives you the right to do something you could not and would do if they were present. Period. As such, this does, beyond a doubt, elevate the administrator and other players to a position of privilege. This runs contradictory to my standards of excellence in the services I provide; namely, that all players feel comfortable in knowing that no person, be they me, friends of mine, or those who have made themselves known to me on a regular basis, are elevated in any way above them. Again, I reiterated: This IS NOT because it deprives me of a position of power over my players. This IS because it elevates me to a position of power over my players. This directly impinges on my ability to provide a guaranteed minimum level of service excellence to my players. As such, I cannot, in good conscience, provide hosting. Understand that these are not my only issues. For example, there is also the issue of the server namespace/nomenclature. Way back when we set the server up, we worked on stabilizing the first server before rolling out a second. I had started asking about another mission file so I could set up Chicago 2. At the time, there were no other servers running in the Chicago namespace. It took me five days of PM'ing and emailing to get that second mission file. In that time Chicagos 2 through 9 came online, and we lost valuable namespace even though we conducted our due diligence and made every effort to communicate, and without regard to the fact that we had proven infrastructure. Early adopters should be encouraged, not discouraged, from providing the service. This does serve as discouragement. I was asked to change from Chicago 1 Original and Chicago 1 Blues, as we used codenamed namespace to establish and protect our brand. Make no mistake: As much as I enjoy the other administrators in DayZ, and we have learned a lot from each other having each other's backs, we are in competition with each other for donations to maintain sustainability, quality of service, and player support. The brand is important to that. However, in the interests of cooperation, I agreed to do this. We as a society to not get without giving. And, for there part, as the staff responded, they were reasonable and understanding. Even still (and not to get that admin in trouble, hence why I will not name him here) other servers are still operating under the codename system. This wouldn't be a problem if I couldn't go into the server browser and see that Vipeax, a member of the staff, was using "NY" as his namespace. Not "NY [some digit]", just straight "NY". (Picture current as of 26 May 1:30am Eastern) Those of us who were early players/hosts of the mod will remember that the first person to occupy the NY namespace was Jonnerz of HostAltitude. NY1 provided by HostAltitude. I find it simply incredible (and I use that word in the sense of "not credible", not "really impressive") that the staff themselves are not aware of efforts being made to unify the nomenclature while members of the hosting community are being asked to do so. And have no doubts about it: Changing to Chicago 1 and Chicago 20 (I wanted to give the staff the peace of mind that I'd moved well outside the occupied space) has caused confusion among our players, who are asking what happened to Original and Blues. Regulars are having difficulty finding the servers, and our player count has dropped. Cooperation only goes so far; when one member of the staff isn't cooperating with what is being asked of others (others who are, in fact, supporting the player base that would permit this mod to have commercial salability), I have an issue with that. "We're busy" stops being credible when the problem persists six days after I was asked to change. I've also offered my skillset numerous times to be used at the disposal of the team, including human resources management. The placing of open calls for needed positions, the discretion to place those as temporary or permanent positions, the hiring and firing of personnel. Running two corporations, I've done it all. And I have the corporate filings to show for it, too. Those offers have gone unheeded, and I regret this. Any HR department (regardless of if I was present on it or not, that's just illustrative of known attempts to provide solutions) would act to significantly alleviate the congestion currently being experienced. That is simply two other grievances I have that has not been resolved in a timely manner and to my satisfaction as a host/provider of a service. I regret that this had to be raised on the public forums as it did, but with it being addressed to me publicly, and with the DevTeam often incommunicado due to the aforementioned congestion/understaffing, it may be that this is the only method by which to address the issue. Hopefully this will lead to effective solutions that satisfy both the DevTeam and the server hosts which support them. Nothing pisses lil' perfectionist me off like inefficiency, and if there's one thing that's inefficient, it's wasting a perfectly good loss of resources.

Meta-gaming (like the infiltration that happens in EVE) is part of DayZ If there are servers that are banning people for this meta-gaming, report them and they will be warned. Continued violations they will be blacklisted. Banning for cheating? It depends what you mean by cheating. I've heard some admins who think that teamspeak ghosting is cheating. Betrayal and shit like that is part of the game.

Ha! I already do ban for spying, but only ghosting in TeamSpeak (abusing public first come-first serve channels). It's a Term of Service on our server, and while we won't ban you for spying on us in game (following us/stalking us) or legitimately ingratiating yourself to a group, integrating with them, and then betraying them, if you violate the terms of connecting to my server, if I can't use in-game measures, I'll just IP ban the player from seeing my server at all for violating my private property agreement. Which, incidentally, would stop a player from seeing the game server. If you disconnect to avoid death, well, now with 1.5.8.2 that's apparently been "fixed", so hopefully players will organically try to avoid penalty instead of attempting to have it enforced.

Wasn't going to reply beyond marveling at the slapfight but I gotta say, I 100% ban for ghosting too. Don't have an open TeamSpeak? Sorry hoss, but the rules to my TeamSpeak are posted in multiple locations, including the TeamSpeak server itself. One of those rules is no ghosting. The server is hosted on a physical machine, making it chattel property, and provided as a service, making it subject to terms of service. Both of those alone are sufficient for any person charged with administrating that server to invoke the principle of informed consent: By connecting to the server, you agree to the terms of service for the service provided and to occupy a connection to chattel property, be it leased or owned. One of the conditions of informed consent is that you know, or reasonably ought to know, the consequences for violating either principle of the overarching agreement. If you do not agree with that agreement, you may leave. Private property is not a public square and you do not have the right to civil disobedience in my private property. Put more briefly: Fuck around, get banned.

On the Contrary Kirk, when they are on side channel insulting the server and the server owner falsely stating that the owner of the server had turned off the hive connection so he wouldn't lose his gear is a very good reason to ban someone. The DayZ Development team can confirm that the Hive was not turned off at the time of the incident from 17:00 to 18:30 Eastern Standard Time with the exception being when the server was restarted and players were alerted at 30 minutes, 20 minutes and 5 minutes before the server restart. He's sitting there insulting the community, the integrity of it's members and owner as well as being disrespectful to the other players of the server. Neither of them were banned from the hive and I've also e-mailed my statement to the DayZ Development team. The accused in this situation sat in the TeamSpeak channel we were in with their microphones muted - no one knew they were in the channel, they never addressed themselves and before the incident happened they were confronted and the blatantly lied to the server owner when asked who they were. They claimed they were playing Eve Online and had seen the TeamSpeak information on DayZ while they were in actuality on another TeamSpeak server - listening to what we were saying while carrying on their own conversation. So lets see, valid reasons for them being banned: - Insulting the community to which they were guests of - Insulting the owner of the server to which they were guests of - Lying to the sever owner to which they were guests of - Suspicion of Ghosting as well as abusing TeamSpeak to gain an unfair advantage over other players on the server.

Seems to me server admins like to use the excuse of Ghosting to ban a person. I begin to wonder if anyone has ever rightfully banned someone for said act of ghosting. It is entirely possible to sneak up to 5 meters from a person without the use of an exploit. It merely depends on the target's situational awareness or lack there of. Course Mr.Ian could be lying for all I know. Some sort of solid evidence would be grand. Something that I think should be required. That or numerous UNBIASED (Ahem,people in the SAME clan) witnesses. Besides, Its not like this doesn't happen often. You'll catch him again assuming he is in fact ghosting. People D/C on me all the friggen time.

1: I was asking in chat because I was watching you run around for 20 min with it on your feet. I stated I saw someone hours ago. Because I didn't want you guys to notice I was 500 Meters away from your base camp. 2:This one there is no way to prove because I did not record so IDC. But I took more then one shot on you and I never saw you go down. Maybe it was lag who knows this one was for the community. 3: I was out of the Vehicle several times and waited for it to save and it never did. And also there was a ton of complaining about how no one was able to connect to the HIVE server. Just is a interesting timing the fact that all happened right as you lost a bunch of stuff and a car. And idc that you banned me. I made this post to let people watch out for your server. Nothing more nothing less. And the fact of the matter is you banned us for "Ghosting" We have proof we did not ghost and what did you do? you said you don't care. Sounds like someone that is upset they got raided and not a admin/owner trying to keep the server running smooth. The time stamp for that pic I linked you and the time stamp from him joining your "Public" TS server are off by a while. So therefore there is no way we could of ghosted to find your base if the time stap on the picture of us watching your base is earlier then him connecting. Lastly this is a game I play to have fun. I do not care if i die or get raided. Gear is easy to come by. The fact you allowed yourself to get upset and let your "group" get to you and have you ban people that raided you. Is going to far. Im ok with nothing happening to you. I find it funny that it seems someone that was in your TS clarified what i said. And the fact you dodged all the abuse brought up against you. All you replied with was the fact that im a lier. If anyone believes anything you post without proof Id consider that kinda funny. But everyone gets there own way to think. To sum this up. This is for the community to think about. I am not aiming to "take" your server. I am just informing the community how you act in the best for the people you play with in your "squad" and not your server.

I have been playing on the server for a while now got bases all set up and such. So I ended up shooting a random Survivor (Im a bandit) and it happened to be the server owners friend. So he informed me how him and all his men were instructed to hunt and kill me. So i stalked a few for a while watched chat and figured out where there farming grounds and such were and finally located there camp. I sat watching waiting for a friend to join me to help on the assault. "Crave" stated taking server down in 30 min. So I stayed in wait and my friend joined there TS to see why. He was over hearing them talk about changing draw distance on restart so they can raid in there huey and see everything. Then they requested to take the server down for 5+ min. So the server will empty and they can raid easier. Crave said yes he would do that. So they yelled at my friend that joined TS and moved into a password TS channel. So the server came up I was still in position. Took the shot downed one friend logged on and he got dropped. So I was alone. Took out another two. Then Crave the server owner came out of the bushes and I shot him 3 in the chest 1 in the head with a M24 sniper.(I one shot the rest of them so idk why he took so many shots) Saw blood flying and he ran away. And noticed he had a backpack on his back and somehow was dragging a backpack on the ground so I guess he had 2 backpacks. Then finally 2 min later he bled out. Looted the camp grabbed the car started driving and they said we ghosted then everyone stopped being able to log in and the HIVE stopped saving. And a few min after that I get Banned for "ghosting and don't come back into my server". So I lost everything I built up but the equipment on my back. So just a warning to anyone who plays on that server and maybe the devs can do something about it. Because that ruins everything a angry Server owner cant take a lose they abuse. Also Tent duplicating was happening on the server when I was looking in the tents. But other then that happy hunting to everyone. This is a friendly warning for this server to everyone involved. Chat in his TS before I was banned. <15:57:45> "[HZ]Pfc.GrandBean": http://steamcommunity.com/id/Bork0331usmc/screenshot/541801804003929490 <15:57:49> "[HZ]Pfc.GrandBean": Figured id show you too <15:57:56> "[HZ]Pfc.GrandBean": since you removed me from your friends <15:58:03> "[HZ]Pfc.GrandBean": =] pic posted of us looking at base <15:58:05> "[HZ]Pfc.GrandBean": before we joined ur ts <15:58:09> "CraveMode": We will restart because of the zombie count <15:58:11> "[HZ]Pfc.GrandBean": <-- mr.Ian <15:58:11> "CraveMode": I dont care <15:58:15> "CraveMode": you come on teamspeak <15:58:20> "[HZ]Pfc.GrandBean": Open TS bro <15:58:29> "[HZ]Pfc.GrandBean": Came to ask about why restart <15:58:31> "CraveMode": er wilson <15:58:33> "[HZ]Pfc.GrandBean": and you guys freak <15:58:42> "CraveMode": came on teamspeak, thats considered ghosting in fps terms <15:58:48> "CraveMode": to listen to us <15:59:08> "CraveMode": you guys are playing unfair, so you were banned <15:59:08> "[HZ]Pfc.GrandBean": Nothing that was said could prove anyting <15:59:15> "[HZ]Pfc.GrandBean": We found your base before we joined <15:59:16> "[HZ]Pfc.GrandBean": lol <15:59:20> "CraveMode": my server, your gone, go play the 100 other servers

It's funny. They bitch and ban about anyone they "claim" is ghosting and/or abusing any game mechanics. Yet on several occasions, usually involving a Legion member, and a 7th Cav Member, I've hit both of them, only to be followed by an immediate disconnect. On top of this, we found a stack of over 200 military grade weapons, and thousands of rounds of ammo. They claim this is from a 'legit' 8 hour op, in which the devs were involved. I doubt this, considering 3 of us were able to take down the overwatch, the 2 guards, and defend the position while stocking ourselves with weapons. There are screenshots of this. In the beginning, all I was asking for was a firefight, I happen to find it funny to watch Legion scatter and try to regain control whenever they come under fire, easy pickings, as they have absolutely no tactical knowledge. Funny for all the military experience they claim. Legion. Make no mistake, you are at war. But stop being pussies and banning my guys for killing your members. Thanks.

^^or desync Took a look in the editor and the walls look too thick indeed. My guess would be through the door, with the dead guy ghosting on teamspeak, but I can't tell anything for sure.

I'm usually for speedy zombies but it just doesn't work so well at this speed with all the zigzagging, teleporting and wall ghosting. Should be made a bit slower, not much, just a bit.

I don't recall the devs ever claiming that players should be forced to team up and avoid 'lone wolfing', being alone is meant to be very difficult, but that doesn't mean being in a group should be a cakewalk, currently that's all knockdown really presents. Knockdown as it is presents no challenge to groups and instead of providing great challenge to individuals it's more of a roll of the dice or the result of the inevitable glitched zombie. There are a couple of issues with the zombies that if corrected would make knockdown a non-issue, namely the ghosting through objects and wild zigzag running that forces you to choose between being hit or wasting tons of ammo and possibly be hit while reloading anyway. Unfortunately these issues look like they're the results of the game engine so the only thing that can be changed is the mechanics of knockdown. My suggestion would be to make pain a meter like hunger and thirst is. In addition to the visual distortion, once you reach a certain point it becomes possible to be knocked out (through fainting) with intervals increasing the more you're in pain. IMO this would still present a significant challenge, but remove some of the randomness, it could also make epi-pens more useful. Tajin pointed out that you can easily kill zombie hordes just by running into buildings and taking them on, one by one. Examples like this where something that's extremely difficult can be made into a cakewalk just by using one technique (possibly glitch/exploit) are not examples of good game design. There should be no move in a fighting game that beats all others, there should be no gun in an fps that's just as easy to acquire but is far superior to every other one. These are just examples of poor balancing. Therefore teaming up shouldn't be the magic bullet that makes knockdown a non-issue. It should make things a lot easier, but making surviving as a team dull and easy while surviving as an individual inevitably impossible is not really fun whichever way you choose to play.