-Gews-

I was concerned reading the May 8 status report and learning weapons will not have any dispersion, because without dispersion, you can't have a realistic portrayal of weapons! Lead Designer Peter Nepesny says: "... after the rewrite of the weapons we are missing implementation of dispersion - random cone-shaped spread defined by angle. Previously it was used as kind of an inaccuracy from the manufacturing process where long barrel weapons were most accurate and short barrel ones were least. We are not using it anymore as I think ‘fighting’ some random nonsense on mid to long ranges is over the top, as players are already challenged enough by mechanics like sway, recoil, zeroing, actual bullet speed and drop - all that combined with character movement, which is enough." I strongly disagree with this. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Some weapons are more accurate than others. A rifle is more accurate than a musket. A Winchester 70 is more accurate than an AKM. A CZ527 is more accurate than an SKS. A Colt Python is more accurate than a derringer. Different weapons have different levels of accuracy. This is fundamental. Accuracy, or the lack of it, is an important characteristic. It should be portrayed in DayZ. If you don't even have a stat for something as basic as "accuracy" then your game's weapons aren't authentic, period. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dispersion is not "over the top". Dispersion is described in the status report as "random nonsense" and "over the top". Yet weapon dispersion is (of course) in DayZ mod, ARMA 2 and ARMA 3. I never saw complaints about it there. Not to mention the countless other games with weapon dispersion. The one time there were complaints about dispersion was in early DayZ alpha, when dispersion was at absurd levels—for example, M4 dispersed bullets over 40 inches at 100 yards... that's since been fixed. Most people say that long range combat and sniping is something the ARMA series has always done very well. In real life, all firearms have inherent dispersion. So in ARMA, all of them have dispersion as well—usually a realistic amount. And since it's a realistic amount, no one is complaining that ARMA weapons are sending bullets in random directions. Imagine if someone posted in the ARMA forums, or r/ARMA, and made the suggestion of removing all weapon dispersion. That wouldn't be very popular at all. If someone had come to r/DayZ [or in this case, DayZ forums] back in 2016 and suggested removing weapon dispersion, it would gain nothing but downvotes. Doesn't that say something? Even games like PUBG, or Counter-Strike have bullet dispersion. So the idea that it's "over the top" for DayZ, I don't understand. If there are realistic dispersion values, how can that be "over the top"? Does it mean we can't simulate real life accuracy because real life guns are too inaccurate? That sounds ridiculous. Especially when this game has mechanics like manual transmissions, unique blood types, new round-by-round loading of magazines and apparently an upcoming hitbox for your character's liver, I can't see how a small, realistic inherent dispersion is "over the top". --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Removing dispersion reduces the depth, character and value of weapons. If we find an 80-year-old Mosin, we should expect 80-year-old Mosin accuracy. Meaning it's still good enough to hit a man at several hundred yards, but it's no precision sniper rifle. Maybe many rounds of corrosive ammunition have gone through it over the years. Maybe tolerances weren't so good for a mass-produced Soviet service rifle. With this weapon, you want to aim for center-of-mass at longer ranges to ensure a hit. Now, on the other hand, if we find a top-grade modern sniper rifle, we should expect to be able to hit most everything we aim at. Even a couple pixels of someone's head at 800 m. Even if you could fashion a scope mount for the Mosin and use modern optics, the accuracy will still be less. Maybe you take your Mosin, dial in your scope, and aim at a player's heart (assuming we see those new hitboxes). But the target is a half-kilometre away, due to the weapon's inherent inaccuracy, it strikes the player's lung instead, or his abdomen. You hit the target but you don't get the instant kill you were hoping for. Or maybe the target is lucky enough to have body armor, and you are trying for a long range headshot. Instead, the bullet strikes low and hits his hardplate. And if you had been using a modern sniper rifle, you probably would have struck the heart, or the head. So the answer when using the old Mosin is: get closer. It's a limitation of using such a weapon. This kind of thing makes weapons behave and feel that much more authentic. It adds interesting characteristics to each. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DayZ community seems to want authentic weapons. I don't think the core DayZ community, that which has been actively following the game this whole time, wants no-spread weapons with perfect accuracy. People seem to like more authentic behaviour when it comes to weapons. For example, in early alpha, the plan was to 'streamline' ammunition. So we had Mosins firing 7.62 NATO (.308), and they planned to give Makarov in 9x19mm Luger, AKs in 5.56 instead of 5.45, things like this. A vocal segment of the community was against this 'streamlined' ammo, so they eventually added .380 ACP and 5.45x39. When the eye zoom was missing at Gamescom, and it was said "I think we will ditch it, probably", this wasn't very popular, as it is required for realistic vision and engagement ranges. Community gave feedback, and the eye zoom is kept. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hopefully with enough community feedback, weapon dispersion (and by extension weapon authenticity) can be kept as well.

I downloaded both and it only takes a couple minutes to swap. —Rename your game folder in C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\ (eg, "DayZ" becomes "DayZ062") —Uninstall the game —Opt into and download experimental When you wish to swap back —Rename experimental game folder (eg, "DayZ" becomes "DayZ063") —Uninstall the game —Rename stable game folder (eg, "DayZ062" becomes "DayZ") —Opt out of experimental build —Install the game

Who cares what the game is going to be like at some undetermined point in the future? It's not like 0.63 is going stable tomorrow. Have fun finding the same 5 weapons over and over again while dying of dehydration before you get far enough to learn the map. I'm playing experimental because it's new to me, not because it's the best place to find interesting loot or build any sort of long-term character. Yeah, when 0.63 drops the game will change. And... it can be learned then. No one needs to prepare for it, because worst case, they'll die a few times while they have fun learning new mechanics. Just like they would now. And furthermore, playing stable now you get to compare changes before/after. The point about server population is a good one, I haven't kept track of how the stable servers are doing.

Since it's all new to you I would pick stable for content.

Needs tweaking, but don't think you should be able to run a 4 minute mile, either. If you can sprint for 3-4 minutes straight that means stamina has basically no effect on combat. Despite the new character movement, unrealistic zig-zag is still very much a thing, when combined with sprinting and no acceleration or momentum, 3-4 minutes = way too much. Example of overdesign = adjusting channels on the handheld transceiver.

If they didn't want feedback, they wouldn't put up a site designed specifically for people to give feedback with tags like 'feature request' and 'balancing'. Personally, 'their vision' is not something that concerns me. I know what I like and what I don't like. I see no reason to keep my mouth shut when it comes to constructive feedback... or even pure complaining. If 'their vision' included magic wands and flying monkeys you can bet I'd have some thoughts on that. The game has been changing in various ways here and there all the time and head bob isn't something that can be said to affect the game's overarching 'vision' anyways. The devs haven't yet come out and said "we want to force a strong head bob effect, and particularly in 3rd person". Telling the OP to just tough it out or go play a different game because the shaky cam on the EXPERIMENTAL build gives him motion sickness is ridiculous. Sorry. In the 3PP perspective it's quite strong and I've seen quite a few people mentioning it.

Or there is always https://feedback.bistudio.com/

They removed the head bob slider a while ago. Maybe they want everyone to have the same experience? I noticed that value "headbob" was set to "=1" in my "Gews_settings.DayZprofile"... that's the file for the 0.63 build.

I was running down the coast and see another guy running towards me. I put up my hand and give a friendly wave as I jog towards him. He puts up his hand and gives a friendly wave as he jogs towards me. And then, at the same moment, we punch each other in the face. He says, "Whoa! Great minds think alike!" and runs off into the fog...

Clearly way too low. Spray from this weapon should only be controllable at very short ranges. Checked a few weapons and their recoil modifiers were set to 1, 1, and 1. Previously it was 1, 4, and 1.9 for the AKM. Seems to be a work in progress. Yep, the icons are real bad. If it's this small it should show one round, larger. Max ammo stack size could depend on weight, or volume, or some combination of both. For example, a .308 weighs about twice much as a 5.56, so going by weight, it should stack only half as much. And for 10 rounds of .45, you would be able to stack 18 rounds of 9mm, or 64 rounds of .22 for the same weight. But only 5 shotgun shells. Shotguns are pretty good. I've never seen a .308 taking 4 chest shots to kill unless in some circumstance where it hits the arms or weapon or extreme lag. There's already a lever-action rifle and it's not terrible. A few of the hunting rifles also serve as the game's sniper rifles which unfortunately means they've been moved northwest and made quite rare. That's not a good idea because someone will inevitably log out of their favorite server, and try to log back in, and there will be a camper within 50 m, or someone cooking meat, or an unconscious guy, or some roleplayers sitting around a campfire, and they'll be blocked from the server for an indefinite amount of time. Best fix is private hive though. I don't think Bohemia has the resources to have people review all the footage and logs, or store the 2 minute gameplay videos. Seems to be left to the server admins on private.

American-180 doesn't make much sense spawning around Chernarus. You should ask for the MGV-176 instead because it's essentially the same design, but made in Yugoslavia, with a plastic body and a folding stock. Which also would be strange but at least makes slightly more sense in Chernarus, uh... maybe. But I think they're done with the weapon list at this point.

I remember when I KOS'd DicklePick on 0.61 experimental and... no one cared. But previously I'd run into and run with DicklePick for a couple hours and he was even nice enough to avoid killing me when I had a CTD right in front of him.

Who says I'm bored? And are bored and bad mutually exclusive? Is anyone really 'bad' in this virtual space? Do you want to be shot by... uh... hackers? Maybe so, since I'm not understanding this bit? "I like that, I really do. You guys are so tolerant and accepting of other people's playstyles, providing it's the 'shoot'em' talk-to-'em mentality. Just keep being you, it's funny this way." Fixed?

Except various sicknesses or cold (cannibal laugh, "you are shaking") and broken arms (my arm feels painful). And in 0.63?...lots of sway there? Not really, at this point? I would disagree: "We are not using it anymore as I think ‘fighting’ some random nonsense on mid to long ranges is over the top, as players are already challenged enough by mechanics like sway, recoil, zeroing, actual bullet speed and drop - all that combined with character movement, which is enough." Players are already challenged enough = arguable! Dispersion is over the top = untrue! 'Over the top' per Merriam-Webster = extremely or excessively flamboyant or outrageous, going beyond what is expected, usual, normal, or appropriate : excessive or exaggerated. Complaints about DayZ / ARMA's realistic levels of dispersion = near zero. Dispersion compared to other games' weapons = less than most. Therefore, not 'over the top'. I don't see how. Weapon dispersion isn't something you control, nor does it make it more difficult to aim your gun, so I don't get where mouse and keyboard vs controller comes into it. Modding won't fix my concerns about anything in DayZ. Anyways according to status report from today: We'll have to see what exactly 'internal implementation' will mean for weapons.

I have to ask—if you didn't want to get shot, why did you fire up DayZ in the first place? At no point has DayZ not been full of killing. And you can't expect players to respect "I don't want to be shot". Exactly who wants to be shot!? It's DayZ and the very concept of DayZ includes being shot and having your session ruined. If you don't want to be shot, you need to find a server that prohibits KoS.

I think you can pretty much lump all of those status' effects into "weapon sway" and I think DayZ is not the only game with weapon sway. Particularly in current 0.63 (haha). I can't really make most of my arguments here because I'll say "—but real life weapons" and you'll say "—game". But I think the six years of DayZ dispersion play-testing shows that modelling realistic weapon accuracy has never been 'over the top' as mentioned in the May 8 status report.

If I recall correctly, you aren't really interested in pursuing the ARMA-style realism. And so I guess the argument 'all real life firearms have a random dispersion' does't hold weight with you, and it comes down to the gameplay alone. But even on gameplay alone, I would challenge you to find a first or third-person shooting game that has come out since DayZ mod's launch in 2012 that does not add random dispersion, realistic or exaggerated, to one or more firearms. Every successful title, from CS:GO to Overwatch to PUBG to Squad to Fortnite to [insert game here] has some implementation of weapon dispersion. So it can't be that stupid. Good question. Peter Nepesny talked about adding an exaggerated dispersion to the crosshair 'hipfire', while removing (or rather, not re-implementing) the 'authentic' dispersion from ADS. I would like to think it's the same old ADS-and-crosshair dispersion we've always had, but you never know.

So much more rewarding... to who? The imaginative geniuses? If they would find more fun exchanging backstories and going on an adventure, they probably wouldn't have attacked you in the first place. Some years back complaints and arguments about KoS got to the point where this forum had a KoS master thread to contain them, and other posts complaining about KoS would be sent to the 'graveyard'... http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/154460-so-kos-official-sa-kos-discussion-topic/ Always been a thing, always gonna be a thing, so I guess any disappointment depends on your expectations. It's been suggested.

The 5.45 mm has hit=7.2 which makes it slightly more powerful than 9 mm (hit=7). Comparing the real-life specs to the other rounds (5.45 mm=1.4 kJ, 9 mm=0.5 kJ) it should clearly be somewhat more powerful, but this kind of thing can happen with all weapons. It's supposed to, and used to, hold 11 in the tube mag. Not sure why they changed Trumpet and Repeater to 7 rounds each. I'll assume it was a mistake. Similar to the Repeater, the Trumpet should fire 1 round per second. These are both slow. And with the new R-key mechanic, there's a delay in the action, and it seems to take about 1.5 seconds between shots. The animation is also not great, dropping the gun from the shoulder to pump. This didn't make sense to anyone, so they changed it. Riot shields aren't bullet-resistant. That would be a ballistic shield. https://trello.com/c/Eiw2OApM/121-non-lethal-weapons Talking about the stable crosshair? They made it that way because you weren't supposed to be very accurate unless using your sights. Didn't work. You just need to know where to aim it.

Getting silly? It was already silly a long time ago. "Sooner than folks think!" I think that Bohemia would be the first to admit that they did not expect DayZ to still be in alpha in 2018 and that this game's development hasn't been silky smooth. Missing roadmap goals by years doesn't mean they haven't been working hard on this game, but biting off more they could chew was a mistake in the first place. Releasing in such an unfinished state and publicly setting unrealistic goals is where the silly comes in. "Technology can break you.. And I mean that literally, because after the experience with DayZ, you very early find out that if your original design is not aligned with the technology you have at the start of the early access, and you have to have large, sweeping changes in the technology that you have to make the game possible, it's probably not a good idea to start early access. So I really suggest that you have your base tech at the release. During the pre-production, you should really consider the features that you are trying to promote to players—what's the selling point of the game—and if that selling point is dependent on a tech that you don't have, you really shouldn't have that selling point. You're gonna really cry at the end if you do that." -DayZ Lead Producer Eugene Harton

Of course it depends on weapon state, how it affects accuracy depends on what damage or wear you are talking about. For example, this won't help things. We just have one weapon health stat in 0.62 so it's not complex. That's what it says in the report. So it seems to leave only zeroing ability and trajectory. Accuracy of a weapon, it's no longer "a thing". The status report mentions "sway" and "recoil" also, but neither of those affect your trajectory. Wow, recoil! The reason given for removing accuracy variable is that dispersion is "over the top" which, when it is kept to realistic levels, is demonstrably untrue (six years of DayZ say hi, for one).

Aha, nice catch!

Generated some random numbers, put them in a scatter plot, and fit to silhouettes to make a visual of how "realistic" dispersion might look. I used the longest range. Due to the calculations I used the patterns could be quite larger than one might see in-game (ie, "1.5 MOA" rifle in diagram would put 95% of shots in 2.4 MOA circle). Sniper rifle @ 800 m (0.75 MOA for 5 shots, 20-shot pattern) 20/20 hits Hunting rifle @ 800 m (1.5 MOA for 5 shots, 20-shot pattern) 20/20 hits Mosin 1891/30 @ 800 m (3.75 MOA for 5 shots, 20-shot pattern) 12/20 hits And for fun: Mosin 1891/30 @ 2000 m (max sighting range) (3.75 MOA for 5 shots, 20-shot pattern) 6/20 hits For this last one, the bullet would take about 7 seconds to get there, end up with about as much damage as a .22, and if you were zeroed at 300 m you would have to hold almost 500 feet over the target. Although it's an extreme chop from 28-3/4" to 10", this could still be surprisingly accurate, as shortening a barrel typically doesn't have a major effect on inherent accuracy, and often the opposite. Blast and flash would be extreme. Velocity could be reduced by up to 25%. But the main problem is that hunting scope. With an eye relief of 9 cm and no stock, you would be risking serious scope eye. Also watch for this with the upcoming Steyr Scout. If they make it so you can attach the hunting scope to the Steyr (which would be inconsistent with the inability to place it on other railed weapons, but you never know) and the hunting scope placement is far forwards over the barrel ('scout mount', like so) that's incorrect and wouldn't be much use in real life—you would need to use a long eye relief scope for such a forwards placement. The hunting scope, if attached to the Scout, should be mounted over the receiver.

Some of this is due to change, or unfinished implementation. I know Peter Nepesny made a personal response about the new crosshair mechanic. But I would like to see some further developer response on the dispersion issue. Just a couple days ago there was a thread about weapon dispersion issue at the top of the DayZ subreddit, which gained about 400 upvotes and over 11,000 views, so I think dispersion is worth some more discussion in another status report.

They can do all this, but still doesn't remove the need for dispersion in the end. And if we are arguing about gameplay or workload, many of these things are more obvious to the player or harder to create, balance or achieve. Agreed.