Are Choppers needed in DayZ?

[Skinup69 24]

I've found like 5/6 camps in couple hours. So helis don't make a difference to finding camps that much unless u change ya settings.

So she bitch, lets go...fly together.

It is the ultimate camp busting tool but only available to whoever owns the chopper (and with no drawbacks whatsoever - the chopper is neither realistic or authentic).

No camp is ever safe, they can all be found by people determined to find it (or more easily by cheating) but why include a platform that can find everyone's camp over the course of an hour.

The thing that makes camp relatively safe is the time needed to search for them. A clan of 5 guys could walk the map edge over the course of a few days, spread out 100/200m apart and find camps, maybe not every camp but they could and it would be a lot of work.

So with a chopper in the map i wouldn't even bother with vehicles. I don't want the shitty ones that can't go off road and if I had a chopper and I wanted I could use it to find all the best vehicles and take them away for our use. With this in mind it makes me think, why bother in the first place"

BTW it isn't an exploit, its the game engine. It renders that way for everyone.

[Bakst 98]

I think perhaps one problem here is that players put a lot of time and thought into their camps (understandably), and as a consequence they think their camps must be super-secret when in fact they are pretty easy to find. There are only so many areas of the map that make sense for hiding camps, and those areas can be canvassed in relatively short order by determined players like Skinup69, chopper or no chopper. The airborne search is simply more convenient, and cooler, and also faster but only marginally so. It's definitely not a game-breaking advantage, no way.

[NavyCuda 39]

Oh dear god this shitty forum spazzed out so I lost my whole reply. Ok quick version now

OK you don't need to fly at 60kmh - you may need to but this is not an argument that has any validity to it. You can see better from the air than from the ground - period - you cannot dispute this.

I didn't disagree with you, however I must point out that I did agree with you in my previous post perhaps you overlooked this: "The only difference is the amount of man hours it takes to conduct the search."

I need to conduct the search at 60kph because I'm not a very good pilot, but I'm our only pilot in the group.

I could give u a week in a chopper and it's debatable that you could get the engine started (that is prepping it and making sure all those important switches are set correctly - not simply getting the rotars spinning.)

If you gave me a week and the operations/flight manual I could get a helicopter to the point it was ready to take off, but I still would not be able to fly it safely. My previous post agreed with you on this point.

You said you read my post but this statement would seem to say otherwise - you're saying I brought up NO other points?

The point you make in regards to the rendering distance is valid. It is your suggestion that removing the helicopter is a reasonable response to this issue that I do not agree with. I completely support finding some way to improve the forest and cover even at the cost of frame rate. I gain access to the UH-1H usually once every couple weeks and enjoy flying it around, picking up friends and generally terrorizing the server. My wife and I play a fair amount together and we already have a fairly large stockpile of gear in our camps, so searching out other camps is not our prioirty in DayZ. If the helicopter was removed, we would lose access to a significant tool of terror against other survivors.

Edit: Forgot to add: You make other valid points in regards to the helicopter and maintenance however it would be exceedingly difficult to have a maintenance schedule in game. I also feel that for some of us, we don't have the helicopter long enough for maintenance to even be a concern. In my case, I either crash it or it gets stolen back from me. In my 386 hours of DayZ, I've flown for less than 4 of them. While the machines I work with in real life are not helicopters, they have a fair amount of sensitive gear, and the shortest maintenance interval is 10 hours. I doubt very much that each time a helicopter lands to refuel it needs to go back into the shop to get an oil change and have components replaced. To the best of my understanding most aircraft components are rated in the hundreds of hours of lifespan before needing to be replaced.

As for my replies, I believe I have attacked the arguments, not the person and my responses where they have been inflammatory, have been a reflection of the posts I got with a little added umph - at least I didn't call anyone a cunt ;)

Cunts are useful and fun, so call me a cunt all you want!

Edited October 12, 2012 by NavyCuda

[Jex =TE= (DayZ) 218]

No? When I say exploit I was thinking more along these lines:

lol ;) So you're referring to the fact that from the air you can see through the not-so-dense canopy of most forests in Chernarus, or what?

From the air the ground texture blurs into a muddy kind of soup and there is practically no canopy. If you look at a tree covered hillside from the ground (200m out) you can see into it perfectly ok right? The only thing stopping you seeing up the hill is the leaves. From the air, the leaves hardly even do that, it's so lightly covered it may as well be see through. Now add a tent or a car onto the blurry terrain colour and it pretty much sticks out like a sore thumb up a donkey's ass.

Edited October 12, 2012 by Jex =TE=

[Bakst 98]

I need to conduct the search at 60kph because I'm not a very good pilot, but I'm our only pilot in the group.

Honesty and modesty on the DayZ forums. I feel like I'm going to wake up any minute now.

The point you make in regards to the rendering distance is valid. It is your suggestion that removing the helicopter is a reasonable response to this issue that I do not agree with. I completely support finding some way to improve the forest and cover even at the cost of frame rate.

I'm with you on that. Most people would probably agree that something needs to be done, although I think a few tweaks to the landscape and rendering system would suffice. I suspect the standalone will be better suited to address this problem and I doubt it will ever be "fixed" in the mod.

I gain access to the UH-1H usually once every couple weeks and enjoy flying it around, picking up friends and generally terrorizing the server. My wife and I play a fair amount together and we already have a fairly large stockpile of gear in our camps, so searching out other camps is not our prioirty in DayZ. If the helicopter was removed, we would lose access to a significant tool of terror against other survivors.

How did you get your wife to play DayZ? I turned my fiancée onto Skyrim but have yet to kindle the zombie spark in her! In any case, your group sounds awesome =] Are you open to teaming up with strangers from time to time? Sounds like we might get along out there in the battlefield. I'm just asking -- I understand if you're not inclined to play with random people from the forums.

Cunts are useful and fun, so call me a cunt all you want!

Oh yeah!

[Bakst 98]

From the air the ground texture blurs into a muddy kind of soup and there is practically no canopy. If you look at a tree covered hillside from the ground (200m out) you can see into it perfectly ok right? The only thing stopping you seeing up the hill is the leaves. From the air, the leaves hardly even do that, it's so lightly covered it may as well be see through. Now add a tent or a car onto the blurry terrain colour and it pretty much sticks out like a sore thumb up a donkey's ass.

Okay, totally valid point as stated above, but why remove the chopper? Why not fix the landscape instead?

[Bakst 98]

Oh by the way, maintenance is coming to the DayZ standalone. You will be required to keep your guns in good condition to prevent them from jamming; equipment degrades gradually over time and also as a result of usage and damage taken (helmets, kevlar vests, knives, etc.); and the vehicle maintenance system is getting an overhaul so that fuel is rare and maintenance more difficult, but with the trade-off that vehicle spawns are more frequent. At least, this seems to be the current thinking based on Rocket's AmA session on Reddit and other comments from the devs in the Suggestions forum and elsewhere.

[Jex =TE= (DayZ) 218]

I didn't disagree with you, however I must point out that I did agree with you in my previous post perhaps you overlooked this: "The only difference is the amount of man hours it takes to conduct the search."

I need to conduct the search at 60kph because I'm not a very good pilot, but I'm our only pilot in the group.

Oh dear. Your piloting skills are relevant how?

If you gave me a week and the operations/flight manual I could get a helicopter to the point it was ready to take off, but I still would not be able to fly it safely. My previous post agreed with you on this point.

Nope you don't get a manual. Zombies ate them :)

The point you make in regards to the rendering distance is valid. It is your suggestion that removing the helicopter is a reasonable response to this issue that I do not agree with. I completely support finding some way to improve the forest and cover even at the cost of frame rate. I gain access to the UH-1H usually once every couple weeks and enjoy flying it around, picking up friends and generally terrorizing the server. My wife and I play a fair amount together and we already have a fairly large stockpile of gear in our camps, so searching out other camps is not our prioirty in DayZ. If the helicopter was removed, we would lose access to a significant tool of terror against other survivors.

Unlikely since it's an engine issue and a modelling one. Even without this issue, you should not get a free ride in something that clearly needs to be maintained. I do see that you don't want your fun ruined, nothing about anyone else's fun I see,...

Cunts are useful and fun, so call me a cunt all you want!

I was referring to someone calling me one.

[Jex =TE= (DayZ) 218]

Okay, totally valid point as stated above, but why remove the chopper? Why not fix the landscape instead?

Because one is an engine fix and isn't going to happen (also a remodelling fix is required too - i.e. hours and hours of work) compared to the removal of a single chopper out of the game). I hope the SA brings all that and more :)

[NavyCuda 39]

How did you get your wife to play DayZ? I turned my fiancée onto Skyrim but have yet to kindle the zombie spark in her! In any case, your group sounds awesome =] Are you open to teaming up with strangers from time to time? Sounds like we might get along out there in the battlefield. I'm just asking -- I understand if you're not inclined to play with random people from the forums.

My wife got me turned onto Left 4 Dead for a while, then L4D2. We actually play a few games together, the only one she has no real interest in playing with me is Supreme Commander 2. I guess the advantage is that we're both gamers, firearms enthusiasts and outdoor enthusiasts.

It's really too bad that Red Alert 2 is so difficult to get to run properly over LAN on Windows 7, because that is a game we both enjoy tremendously. Even if I keep hearing "never existed" from her speakers and then wonder what happened to most of my war factories. I got really "mad" once because we were playing no combat for 30 minutes to build up our bases and forces and she snuck spys into my base and stole a bunch of my resources. "It wasn't combat" was her reply.

Edited October 12, 2012 by NavyCuda

[NavyCuda 39]

Oh dear. Your piloting skills are relevant how?

They are relevant to the discussion because my lack of skill with the helicopter makes it a less effective tool under my control. I'm not the only bad pilot in DayZ.

Nope you don't get a manual. Zombies ate them :)

That is unreasonable. You are using a real world example, where zombies are not an issue, so the manuals which are generally located inside the helicopter, would be available.

Unlikely since it's an engine issue and a modelling one. Even without this issue, you should not get a free ride in something that clearly needs to be maintained. I do see that you don't want your fun ruined, nothing about anyone else's fun I see,...

So the enjoyment I take from DayZ is not relevant, only your enjoyment? Private hive servers give the ability to remove the helicopter and as you've stated previously you have had it removed from your server. What is your rationale for suggesting that the UH-1H be removed from public hive servers when you can play the game the way you want on your own server? Please explain to me, why my enjoyment is less valuable than yours.

I was referring to someone calling me one.

You have not demonstrated to me that you are as useful as a cunt, so I certainly would not call you one.

[Jex =TE= (DayZ) 218]

My wife got me turned onto Left 4 Dead for a while,

did she wear sexy lingerie?

[NavyCuda 39]

did she wear sexy lingerie?

I'm married dude, the only sexy lingerie I get to see is on the internet during my private time before bed.

[Jex =TE= (DayZ) 218]

They are relevant to the discussion because my lack of skill with the helicopter makes it a less effective tool under my control. I'm not the only bad pilot in DayZ.

Yes of course, you're piloting skills (or lack thereof) are relevant to the whole dayz community. I can't help you if you cannot see the fallacy of your argument.

That is unreasonable. You are using a real world example, where zombies are not an issue, so the manuals which are generally located inside the helicopter, would be available.

Perhaps but not really the point. You're argument was based on someone being able to pick up a rifle and use it to which I pointed out that learning to use a rifle was not even in the same league as learning to start and fly a chopper.

So the enjoyment I take from DayZ is not relevant, only your enjoyment? Private hive servers give the ability to remove the helicopter and as you've stated previously you have had it removed from your server. What is your rationale for suggesting that the UH-1H be removed from public hive servers when you can play the game the way you want on your own server? Please explain to me, why my enjoyment is less valuable than yours.

Well it doesn't matter does it since we're talking about your enjoyment to begin with so me stating my level of enjoyment is as valid as yours though again, not important when placed next to that of the whole dayz community.

You make assumptions that looking for other player gear is difficult when it is clear to demonstrate this is not the case. Either way, it points out the glaring ease at which to see things from the air. You've stated how much fun you get flying your chopper about - good for you. Ive stated that I love flying but we took a decision to remove the choppers from the server because we deemed it unfair. Yes in some instances a chopper can bring excitement to some players I'm sure.

You have not demonstrated to me that you are as useful as a cunt, so I certainly would not call you one.

I was relying to your post, the cunt remark was relevant to your query, your ad hominem isn't relevant to anything and your assumption is wrong unless you can show otherwise. I won't be reporting it though since i'm not a wuss.

[Jex =TE= (DayZ) 218]

I'm married dude, the only sexy lingerie I get to see is on the internet during my private time before bed.

I'm married also, i buy my wife the stuff all the time :)

[rallye 89]

I won't be reporting it though since i'm not a wuss.

BS.

[Jex =TE= (DayZ) 218]

BS.

LOL really - prove it

[NavyCuda 39]

Yes of course, you're piloting skills (or lack thereof) are relevant to the whole dayz community. I can't help you if you cannot see the fallacy of your argument.

They are relevant because if one person is not very effective with the Huey, there is a strong likelihood that there others who do not utilize it to its full potential. This means that the effectiveness of the Huey and its capability are based solely off of the individuals using it.

Perhaps but not really the point. You're argument was based on someone being able to pick up a rifle and use it to which I pointed out that learning to use a rifle was not even in the same league as learning to start and fly a chopper.

At no time did I ever suggest that operating a firearm even remotely compares to operating a helicopter. The point I was making is that an individuals real world skills should not be a factor when considering what they can or cannot do in a game. You could go a step further, and require that each user registers the class of vehicle they have operated in real life and the firearms that they have experience with. This is unreasonable.

Well it doesn't matter does it since we're talking about your enjoyment to begin with so me stating my level of enjoyment is as valid as yours though again, not important when placed next to that of the whole dayz community.

You make assumptions that looking for other player gear is difficult when it is clear to demonstrate this is not the case. Either way, it points out the glaring ease at which to see things from the air. You've stated how much fun you get flying your chopper about - good for you. Ive stated that I love flying but we took a decision to remove the choppers from the server because we deemed it unfair. Yes in some instances a chopper can bring excitement to some players I'm sure.

There is only one person on these forums qualified to make decisions for the DayZ community as a whole. It is my intention to present my opinion in such a fashion that he does not consider your opinion.

I have not denied that being airborne is the most effective means of searching out hidden camps and vehicles but that is a problem with the game and not the mechanics of flight. If we had camo netting, better rendering at distance your point would be moot. We don't know how this issue will be addressed in the standalone, so it seems unreasonable to remove the helicopter before we even know what the standalone will be like.

I was relying to your post, the cunt remark was relevant to your query, your ad hominem isn't relevant to anything and your assumption is wrong unless you can show otherwise. I won't be reporting it though since i'm not a wuss.

What exactly would you report me for? I have not directed a single derogatory comment towards you throughout this conversation, I simply took a moment to add some levity to a comment you made. Take it however you like.

I'm married also, i buy my wife the stuff all the time :)

I've bought mine some stuff as well, but I realized that it was a waste of money to buy something that gets used once or twice then is essentially ignored, buried somewhere in the bottom of the dresser.

Edited October 12, 2012 by NavyCuda

[Jex =TE= (DayZ) 218]

They are relevant because if one person is not very effective with the Huey, there is a strong likelihood that there others who do not utilize it to its full potential. This means that the effectiveness of the Huey and its capability are based solely off of the individuals using it.

No you cannot make a statement like this without backing it up because I can quite easily counter that flying choppers is a piece of cake and I think that most people can fly them. Either way, chopper skill does not detract from flying in straight lines at 200m at 150 kmh with door gunners looking out for you. If you cannot master this basic concept of flying then I would reasonably say that you would not be able to land it.

At no time did I ever suggest that operating a firearm even remotely compares to operating a helicopter. The point I was making is that an individuals real world skills should not be a factor when considering what they can or cannot do in a game. You could go a step further, and require that each user registers the class of vehicle they have operated in real life and the firearms that they have experience with. This is unreasonable.

There is only one person on these forums qualified to make decisions for the DayZ community as a whole. It is my intention to present my opinion in such a fashion that he does not consider your opinion.

I have not denied that being airborne is the most effective means of searching out hidden camps and vehicles but that is a problem with the game and not the mechanics of flight. If we had camo netting, better rendering at distance your point would be moot. We don't know how this issues will be addressed in the standalone, so it seems unreasonable to remove the helicopter before we even know what the standalone will be like.

Thanks for clarifying.

What exactly would you report me for? I have not directed a single derogatory comment towards you throughout this conversation, I simply took a moment to add some levity to a comment you made. Take it however you like.

Actually that was directed at whoever reported me or gave me a warning.

I've bought mine some stuff as well, but I realized that it was a waste of money to buy something that gets used once or twice then is essentially ignored, buried somewhere in the bottom of the dresser.

Dig it out and when dinner is laid on the table come down stairs dressed in it and when she gives you a funny looks go, "What? I spent $$$ on this and I'll be damned if I don't get some use out of it. Help me shave my legs later?"

[Skinup69 24]

I can't fly a chopper so can u teach me and show me how easy it is?

U got to be the worst troll ever yet people keep talking to u lol

If not your one....then ur one sad tumour carrying, aidz infested, inbred from ur mothers brother....but at least u enjoy forums cuz u can hide behide your evil dead pic thinking ur Ash.

No you cannot make a statement like this without backing it up because I can quite easily counter that flying choppers is a piece of cake and I think that most people can fly them. Either way, chopper skill does not detract from flying in straight lines at 200m at 150 kmh with door gunners looking out for you. If you cannot master this basic concept of flying then I would reasonably say that you would not be able to land it.

Thanks for clarifying.

Actually that was directed at whoever reported me or gave me a warning.

Dig it out and when dinner is laid on the table come down stairs dressed in it and when she gives you a funny looks go, "What? I spent $$$ on this and I'll be damned if I don't get some use out of it. Help me shave my legs later?"

Edited October 12, 2012 by Skinup69

[NavyCuda 39]

No you cannot make a statement like this without backing it up because I can quite easily counter that flying choppers is a piece of cake and I think that most people can fly them. Either way, chopper skill does not detract from flying in straight lines at 200m at 150 kmh with door gunners looking out for you. If you cannot master this basic concept of flying then I would reasonably say that you would not be able to land it.

This is probably the reason I've crashed the Huey while landing more times than it has been stolen from me. Only one or two of my group are willing to get into the Huey with me at the stick, and I've killed them a few times. At least we can laugh about it. I went into the armory to practice before flying in DayZ, it took at least 20 tries before I could get the Huey off the ground without crashing it and close to a hundred before I could land. In the air I'm getting fairly decent and pushing the helicopter harder but overall my skills are very limited. Now on the other hand, put me in the Hunter in GTA:SA and you'll see a good pilot.

I'm sure there are some excellent DayZ Huey pilots that make it look easy, that doesn't mean I would agree that the Huey is over powered or that it shouldn't be available. I would much rather work towards finding a reasonable solution to the ease of spotting camps. How hard would it be to simply make the vehicles and tents get gradually more opaque as the distance from them increases up to the point where they are no longer visible. Make it so that you need to be essentially hovering directly over top of the vehicle or camp for it to be visible. This would reduce the effectiveness of the Huey for spotting camps, while still retaining the Huey for the other purposes for which it is entertaining. It would not address the ease of spotting helicopter crashes, but an hour of driving around in a vehicle will net similar results.

Actually that was directed at whoever reported me or gave me a warning.

I'm gravely disappointed that someone would have reported you for that. I'm glad I can call my wife a cunt without her throwing a hissy fit. It is just a word and some people assign way more meaning to it than it deserves.

Dig it out and when dinner is laid on the table come down stairs dressed in it and when she gives you a funny looks go, "What? I spent $$$ on this and I'll be damned if I don't get some use out of it. Help me shave my legs later?"

I've always wondered how women get fishnets on without tearing them. That is a hot mental picture, hairy legs in white fishnets, why shave?!

[NavyCuda 39]

I can't fly a chopper so can u teach me and show me how easy it is?

U got to be the worst troll ever yet people keep talking to u lol

If not your one....then ur one sad tumour carrying, aidz infested, inbred from ur mothers brother....but at least u enjoy forums cuz u can hide behide your evil dead pic thinking ur Ash.

Way to add something constructive to the conversation. Your opinion has no value what-so-over.

Edited October 12, 2012 by NavyCuda

[Skinup69 24]

Look Down.....camel toe

Edited October 12, 2012 by Skinup69

[Skinup69 24]

Ya it does, I said I can't fly choppers and if u use ya brains and common sense it means that flying choppers are hard.

Btw ur comment has no value because you didn't notice what I said at the start :)

The rest was just a formality.

Groovy

Way to add something constructive to the conversation. Your opinion has no value what-so-over.

[Jex =TE= (DayZ) 218]

I can't fly a chopper so can u teach me and show me how easy it is?

U got to be the worst troll ever yet people keep talking to u lol

If not your one....then ur one sad tumour carrying, aidz infested, inbred from ur mothers brother....but at least u enjoy forums cuz u can hide behide your evil dead pic thinking ur Ash.

Navy I think it was this delightful chap that called me a cunt. Obviously intellect is far beyond him since he neither fathoms the argument nor understands what a troll is.

Hey Skinup, if this thread bothers u so much or the pic of Ash scares u so much then how about you don't bother coming here to read it. You're like one of those freakish stalkers. The perverts that complain about something but can't stay away.

Suck my dick.