Week 3 Ivan and Martin arrested. Show them you care

[Col. Kurtz (DayZ) 91]

They took photos of a secure area in a country they are not citizens of. I have no sympathy for them. They broke the law and should pay the price for it.

[Sarcasmo 2]

Don't worry everyone. When Greece goes bankrupt and shutters its jails and courts these guys will be allowed to book a kayak trip to the mainland.

[Gost 4]

I would kindly request everyone in this thread to not form their opinions on Greece and Greek people in general by the quite vocal one here. I am Greek myself and i have had experience with how the greek authorities work for various cases involving me and my close friends and i can tell you this much: there are multitude of cases on people being held in jail with little to no evidence, unfortunately it's the way things work here. I hope BI has hired a Greek lawyer because without proper knowledge of how things really work here, your devs could be in jail for a long time. Court dates are rarely appointed before atleast 8 months have passed since charges are made and if they have even a suspicion of someone commiting a criminal offense, they will keep em in jail. It's really late and i wanna take my time to read through this thread, but i will post again sometime tomorrow with more general information. Also, if someone could shed a light to wether they are imprisoned, or held in jail while awaiting trial would be helpful so i can give useful information about each case.

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, i can just give information about how things usually work here.

[GameSlayer159 2]

I think it is a shame that this has happened to these 2 men, but whats even worst is what there families must be going through. Unfortunately it is a fight that will have to happen in the Political and Justice arena's of Greece.

Community pressure will work but not as effective as gaining a Political advantage which will be, I believe the key instrument to getting these guy's out of that Greek prison. The main focus should be to find a solution that has solid evidence in their defence. Hopefully, not one that will just be ok, but a solution that will be so solid that there will be no grounds for a backfire.

Let's hope those that are working on the inside within the Government circles from these guy's native country can start to get their representation put forward to the Greek government, and start getting it sorted.

The fear of cause is if the Greek justice system is not contested from there own politicians as well as politicians from these 2 guy's native country, the outlook will not look to good.

So, whoever has this job to do.....

God Bless and Gods speed.

[TheMachine 803]

Lets be honest here folks, we're not getting the whole story.

The Greek authorities wouldn't threaten 2 tourists taking snaps on a beach with 20 years in jail.

They MUST have been up to something, where there's smoke there's usually fire, right?

Two game devs taking photo's for 'research', sounds like the perfect cover for covert operations in a foreign country to me.

Doesn't BI have strong ties to the military as well?

What you essentially have here is two military contractors, sneaking into a secure area and taking god knows how many photo's of god knows what.

You can be DAMN sure if 2 Iranians were taking photos at JFK international airport they'd be banged up in no time.

Why would Greece risk an international incident if there was nothing to it?

They wouldn't, is the short answer.

Lets face it folks, Greece isn't some backwater banana republic, they were once the cultural centre of the world, they're still a western country.

Grow up and let the authorities in Greece do their jobs, which it appears they're already doing, quite well.

Edited September 29, 2012 by TheMachine

[pvtjace 37]

[purepassion 383]

Oh god, we should really put some basic information in the first post...

The Greek authorities wouldn't threaten 2 tourists taking snaps on a beach with 20 years in jail.

They did not. These "20 years" are the maximum penalty for the charge of espionage. Their trial hasn't even started yet, they are only in custody because the greek law system has been in strike since then and still is.

Two game devs taking photo's for 'research', sounds like the perfect cover for covert operations in a foreign country to me.

They did not visit the island to gather reference material for Arma 3 or anything else. Reference material has been taken a long time ago and consisted mainly of plants and other material that can be used for e.g. textures. All the military installations look completely different anyways since it takes place in 2035 where the military uses these rapid deployment containers.

It was a privately organized trip that evoked from their rising interest in the island on which they had been working on for more than two years.

Ivan and Martin are environmental designer who also work on Chernaurus+ which was intended to be used in the DayZ standalone

What you essentially have here is two military contractors, sneaking into a secure area and taking god knows how many photo's of god knows what.

No, we have not.

The evidence that is being held against them, are 14 screenshots from a video that has been taken out of the window of a driving car while they were on a public highway showing parts of the

and military hangars.

Here is some more information all in one look

Edited September 30, 2012 by PurePassion

[jingled@hotmail.com 86]

Just to clarify.

They were on holiday. The island, which is not an faithful representation by even the slightest stretch of the real island, is well finished from a map designers standpoint.

It would be far to late for them to be "researching" the island, hence why that accusation makes no sense. But, that's not even what the authorities are saying. That is even crazier.

If the map is well finished already. Why did they even bother to take photos of a MILITARY BASE which is prophibited in 99% of the world. Don't know what is the law in your country (probably the same) but in Hungary there is a good1 which fits this situation.

"Not knowing the Law doesn't mean you don't need to obey them"

Call me selfish. But i'm with the Greece authority. As i said... Taking photos of a Military Base...

[Zeppa 562]

If the map is well finished already. Why did they even bother to take photos of a MILITARY BASE which is prophibited in 99% of the world. Don't know what is the law in your country (probably the same) but in Hungary there is a good1 which fits this situation.

"Not knowing the Law doesn't mean you don't need to obey them"

Call me selfish. But i'm with the Greece authority. As i said... Taking photos of a Military Base...

Cant you read at all?

They have not taken any pictures of military base intentionally. They filmed video inside/from the car and you can see building somewhere on the background, from this video they(police) have taken screencaptures that they are using as "proof" against them.

PLEASE read the articles and info before posting.

ps. And its been said that this video is something that all tourists can have. Why they are held because of this is unknown.

Edited September 30, 2012 by Zeppa

[Gost 4]

Lets be honest here folks, we're not getting the whole story.

The Greek authorities wouldn't threaten 2 tourists taking snaps on a beach with 20 years in jail.

They MUST have been up to something, where there's smoke there's usually fire, right?

Two game devs taking photo's for 'research', sounds like the perfect cover for covert operations in a foreign country to me.

Doesn't BI have strong ties to the military as well?

What you essentially have here is two military contractors, sneaking into a secure area and taking god knows how many photo's of god knows what.

You can be DAMN sure if 2 Iranians were taking photos at JFK international airport they'd be banged up in no time.

Why would Greece risk an international incident if there was nothing to it?

They wouldn't, is the short answer.

Lets face it folks, Greece isn't some backwater banana republic, they were once the cultural centre of the world, they're still a western country.

Grow up and let the authorities in Greece do their jobs, which it appears they're already doing, quite well.

Allow me, as a greek, to disagree. Planting evidence and holding people without any evidence is the specialty of the greek police. The recent wave of racism and xenophobia outbreaks in my country is most likely the reason they're still being held. There are reports indicating that 50% of the members of the police voted for Golden Dawn, a greek neonazi political party. So yeah, no, we are not a western country, yes, we are a backwater banana republic.

Let's hope those that are working on the inside within the Government circles from these guy's native country can start to get their representation put forward to the Greek government, and start getting it sorted.

The fear of cause is if the Greek justice system is not contested from there own politicians as well as politicians from these 2 guy's native country, the outlook will not look to good.

So, whoever has this job to do.....

God Bless and Gods speed.

Unfortunately, the little press coverage the incident has sparked in Greece, is all pretty much saying "spies caught on lemnos, pretending to be game developers". The public opinion seems to agree aswell to this sentiment, the reason being the one i stated above.

Edited September 30, 2012 by Gost

[IoannisG 6]

Allow me, as a greek, to disagree. Planting evidence and holding people without any evidence is the specialty of the greek police. The recent wave of racism and xenophobia outbreaks in my country is most likely the reason they're still being held. There are reports indicating that 50% of the members of the police voted for Golden Dawn, a greek neonazi political party. So yeah, no, we are not a western country, yes, we are a backwater banana republic.

Unfortunately, the little press coverage the incident has sparked in Greece, is all pretty much saying "spies caught on lemnos, pretending to be game developers". The public opinion seems to agree aswell to

this sentiment, the reason being the one i stated above.

Irrelevant post the fact that may vote a party doesnt mean to have planted evedence

and those report are news papers reports and similar report wanted Greek out of euro or Suriza winning the election so they are not crediabl

Idont care about people voting even the Elephant party unless they dont care about the law

but i care seeing Greeks like you helping people bashing their country on THeories

[Exenima 45]

Honestly, this is the most outright rediculous claim. It doesn't surprise me that they were detained and put in prison, every country is supersticious when it comes to their military bases and other classified facilities, but the fact that they haven't let them go you is outrageous. It just makes me wonder, why would the Greek government think two Czech men were spies? I can guarentee you that i could go to Greece and get more classified footage and images then they did, and not be caught by the authorities. Something is up with this, something more has to be going on. And i'm not saying that they were spying or anything, i am sure they weren't, but it just makes me think, what would the Greek authorities want with two Czech men? Why are they still being detained? Something isn't right here.

[VVired 27]

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the game developers not citizens of Greece? If so, couldn't someone contact an embassy of which ever state they are citizens of?

[purepassion 383]

I can guarentee you that i could go to Greece and get more classified footage and images then they did, and not be caught by the authorities.

Yeah absolutely. You can even just type "Limnos Airport" into Youtube and get multiple videos showing views from inside the airport, even showcasing military jets...

Why are they still being detained? Something isn't right here.

That is indeed an important question! I think the main problem is that the justice system over there is still on strike

[punisher_1 3]

I'd say No.

The whole thing seems like an act of stupidity. At no time should you take photo or video of a military base this is COMMON SENSE.

If they really wanted photos then why not go to the commander of the base and request the oppertunity to do so? Probably because they would say No and rightly so. However this mess would have been avoided.

Now the Greek Govt. has to do the right thing and investigate these two guys and make SURE they are not a threat, that takes time. While I hope this process is short and Greece is treating them well people have to understand this is a matter of security.

[purepassion 383]

If they really wanted photos then why not go to the commander of the base and request the oppertunity to do so? Probably because they would say No and rightly so. However this mess would have been avoided.

Ah goddamnit! Now I know I really have to go crazy on size and colour.... ;)

Please read the post a page back

Edited September 30, 2012 by PurePassion

[MichaeLK 16]

Ah goddamnit! Now I know I really have to go crazy on size and colour.... ;)

Please read the post a page back

first of all the "information" you've gathered and keep reposting are all just junk....

statements of random people without any real proof....

get your facts straight and then repost it a hundred times.

what you quoted from punisher_1 was the best thing I've read so far....

ask for a freaking permission....it's not that hard...

this isn't a personal attack or anything...

Edited September 30, 2012 by Arch0N

[jingled@hotmail.com 86]

ps. And its been said that this video is something that all tourists can have. Why they are held because of this is unknown.

and who said that? i'm a 100% sure that Greece government didn't said it. as i said. their country, their laws. you need to obey them. i was on holidays too in several countries. never ever took a picture or video (even if its only in the background) by mistake.

the sad thing is.

This could happen too with a regular tourist whos not even a game developer. None of you would give a damn about signing petition for random ppl, nor you'd call Greece by names.

But since in this situation "2 mighty game developers" got caught you are all like "RELEASE THEM". Ummm.... no... don't.

Edited October 1, 2012 by MostlyPanda

[IoannisG 6]

The whole thread is suffering from people that instead of argue with real arguments and a logical line of thoughs links and source

JUST FART and leave the the thread just to start a fire i guess its normall after all its just a dayz forum

[John (DayZ) 62]

IF you have evedence buy yourself a ticket and present them in the court all the rest are blah blah blah i barely speak english not cause i dont know English cause i had ADHD and i am irritated by guyies like you. And in my years in internet most people understand me quite well so i guess less able people are problematic to understand me.

Oh, no, man. I totally understand what you're saying (well, for the most part). I just can't take you seriously when you're trying to passionately argue a point in a language that you don't have a firm grasp on - and, based on some of the replies to your posts (i.e., anybody that isn't Greek laughing hysterically at you), I'd say that I'm not the only one.

Let me ask a question that's been bothering me for a while: if Greek national authorities didn't want random passersby taking photos of their military installations, why were they built out in the open, less than a hundred feet from a major road, in the middle of a city? I mean, to be frank, if this conflict with Turkey is as serious as many Greeks claim it is, I don't understand how they haven't already taken over your country. From the sounds of it, a man could very easily map out all of your military bases - as well as counting out troops, noting scramble times, cataloging equipment, etc. - by climbing onto the rooftop of a nearby apartment. I mean, let's be real - how can you blame anybody but yourselves for that? Yeah, it's a crime to take photos of areas of American military bases that require security clearance to enter - but we like to keep those areas in places that you can't generally snap photos of from a road fifty feet away. Mostly because we're not idiots.

[GameSlayer159 2]

Oh, no, man. I totally understand what you're saying (well, for the most part). I just can't take you seriously when you're trying to passionately argue a point in a language that you don't have a firm grasp on - and, based on some of the replies to your posts (i.e., anybody that isn't Greek laughing hysterically at you), I'd say that I'm not the only one.

It would seem that there are quite a few of us in this forum that are starting to get off the purpose WHY Dean Hall set this forum in place. Firstly I don't believe it was put here to have your own personal and derogative attacks on each other. We are suppose it be trying to gain support to get these 2 men out of jail and back to there families! I really hate to point fingers at one person, but seeing as it is the latest post left on here it is a big bullseye for me to hit.

John - if all your going to do is degrade someone because there native language is not English an as well as attack them for there disability then it may pay for you to comment on other forums. I to have ADHD and I can tell you this I have no problem explaining myself or getting my point across when it is needed.

The you go on to say further that you guy's meaning your country which is the USA, but I think its more of a personal reference then a national one are NOT IDIOTS. Well, John your attacking the very people who we need the support to help us to get these 2 men out of prison. Now tell me why would anyone do that? Never bite the hand of the helpers, you'll find that your actually biting yourself.

I strongly believe that if there is as much constructive criticism as there is destructive....these 2 men would probable be free by now.....if we stand on the peoples toes who we need the most support from, yes I am meaning the Greeks then this whole exercise we are trying to do here is pointless. We might as well just leave Ivan and Martin and there families to defend for themselves as we would only make a bad situation even worst.

Come on everyone start finding a solution and stop creating further problems.

Keep your personal things to yourself and start to think of Ivan & Martin and there situation they are in, while some of you are sitting at home or with your families safe and warm with out the worry of maybe not getting to have your loved one return home.

The power of the many will always overcome the power of the one......

[doom4mr 135]

Any updates?

are they back home?

[slonlo 43]

The strikes are getting worse, so I'd assume no.

[MichaeLK 16]

Oh, no, man. I totally understand what you're saying (well, for the most part). I just can't take you seriously when you're trying to passionately argue a point in a language that you don't have a firm grasp on - and, based on some of the replies to your posts (i.e., anybody that isn't Greek laughing hysterically at you), I'd say that I'm not the only one.

Let me ask a question that's been bothering me for a while: if Greek national authorities didn't want random passersby taking photos of their military installations, why were they built out in the open, less than a hundred feet from a major road, in the middle of a city? I mean, to be frank, if this conflict with Turkey is as serious as many Greeks claim it is, I don't understand how they haven't already taken over your country. From the sounds of it, a man could very easily map out all of your military bases - as well as counting out troops, noting scramble times, cataloging equipment, etc. - by climbing onto the rooftop of a nearby apartment. I mean, let's be real - how can you blame anybody but yourselves for that? Yeah, it's a crime to take photos of areas of American military bases that require security clearance to enter - but we like to keep those areas in places that you can't generally snap photos of from a road fifty feet away. Mostly because we're not idiots.

hmmm....maybe because greece doesn't have terrorists trying to blow everything up at the very first chance they get? :)

I would have thought of a more witty comment but you're not even worth the time for that....

Edited October 2, 2012 by Arch0N

[IoannisG 6]

Oh, no, man. I totally understand what you're saying (well, for the most part). I just can't take you seriously when you're trying to passionately argue a point in a language that you don't have a firm grasp on - and, based on some of the replies to your posts (i.e., anybody that isn't Greek laughing hysterically at you), I'd say that I'm not the only one.

Let me ask a question that's been bothering me for a while: if Greek national authorities didn't want random passersby taking photos of their military installations, why were they built out in the open, less than a hundred feet from a major road, in the middle of a city? I mean, to be frank, if this conflict with Turkey is as serious as many Greeks claim it is, I don't understand how they haven't already taken over your country. From the sounds of it, a man could very easily map out all of your military bases - as well as counting out troops, noting scramble times, cataloging equipment, etc. - by climbing onto the rooftop of a nearby apartment. I mean, let's be real - how can you blame anybody but yourselves for that? Yeah, it's a crime to take photos of areas of American military bases that require security clearance to enter - but we like to keep those areas in places that you can't generally snap photos of from a road fifty feet away. Mostly because we're not idiots.

present me valid evedence on you alligation then i will reply