Dear rocket, f**k humanity. Focus on Morality.

[Sarcasmo 2]

For the record I've taken tens of thousands of lives in real life and I do not suffer from PTSD.

Plus, those ants had it coming.

[miqueloz 33]

Get some camo or a ghillie suit. Problem solved

And yet I liked being a German KSK since it fits my nationality perfectly and looked more badass than a dude with a camo vest or a walking bush

Yes. Camo is ok, but the ghillie suit looks stupid. It's not meant to be fashionable, of course, and fills it purpose well. But I'd much rather have the bandit skin. Maybe it could be made available again, as one of the lootable skins? Probably isn't in the mod at the moment because of the stigma attached to it.

[#BASEDGOD 27]

my observation is that the mental is absent' date=' and could provide a huge element of interest to the game, and potentially solve our 'bandit' dilemma.[/quote']

Newsflash; The bandit problem only exists for bad players.

I've yet to be killed by a bandit and I play every day. In the real world, there WILL be people who have no qualms about shooting other people. Take a person who has had most of their family killed and they will go to great lengths to protect their other surviving family members. They will also most likely mentally justify this and literally have no issue or any trouble sleeping. Detachment is the key to survival.

Not everyone is affected the same way by killing another person. These meta game changes would affect everyone and would take away from the realism. The only consistent element to all humans is hunger, thirst and body temperature. Even those has huge variables that cannot be correctly implemented in this game, such as body fat and lean body mass, metabolism and immune system strength.

[Goldstein (DayZ) 46]

I wouldn't say bad players..

I am biased. Even lucky, the aus servers just have less irrational murders. I get away with stuff that should get me murdered constantly, but instead people laugh and team up with me.

DayZ does go into MMO territory, and to have a totally detached 'character' doesn't fit the scene, I guess that's my issue. I don't believe in 'good/evil' etc. Studied too much philosophy, infact this game is the beautification of pure nihilism. Still as a hyperreality it is confined to 'rules', influenced by what we see in reality.

Just ultimately depends on who governs those rules..

are we lovey dovey Walking Deaders........ Paranoid fucks.......

Ultimately will be decided by what is best for DayZ, not us. I'd like to think we can compromise before that decision is purely decided on what makes the most money.

[#BASEDGOD 27]

There is the problem, you've read too much philosophy yet you've never been in the position to experience anything like combat or something traumatic enough to cause PTSD.

You are putting a biased and naive meta game change as a major issue in the game. No one wants to play this game to log on and make sure their character has taken their Zoloft and ate food and drank water so they don't die.

[Zarathustra (DayZ) 87]

Most NORMAL people have problems after taking a life.

I have a buddy that served with the 101st in Iraq...he killed 20 guys at least.

He has PTSD badly...bursts into tears randomly....is on seven different medications....

Sure' date=' psychopaths love to kill....they don't feel empathy for those they do kill.

For the rest of us NORMAL people...it affects us. Badly.

Also, to say that everyone in the game is a cold blooded thoughtless killer is inaccurate.

I mean, I myself, feel nothing when I kill someone in the game...but that's because I don't feel empathy for someone in a game.

That might not be the case for someone else.

[/quote']

But I bet your buddy didn't start experiencing his PTSD until he left the war zone and was back home in a society that reacts with horror to his experiences, right? Now if he lived the rest of his life in a war zone, where taking lives was normal, where the values that govern behavior were completely different, then it's likely he would feel little remorse for his actions - he would kill many more people, and he would surrounded by those who had done the same. They wouldn't care, and neither would he.

For most people, the greater extent of their reflection on their own actions is done through the morals of their society which they have accepted and internalized. These morals can be altered quite easily given the right circumstances.

I do not want to see some dubious 'morality' game mechanic being introduced to force me or my in-game avatar to feel some sort of inner turmoil for our actions. What a load of rubbish. Let's just go back to the damned bandit skins and forget about it.

You guys are going to ruin this game, you really are.

[Goldstein (DayZ) 46]

No one wants to play this game to log on and make sure their character has taken their Zoloft and ate food and drank water so they don't die.

Yet that's the first thing we have to do.. (minus the zoloft, that shit makes you want to kill yourself anyway)

[Bucket (DayZ) 0]

Your source did not state what research it was based on. I'm sorry' date=' but "PhD's probably did it" doesn't impress me.

[/quote']

You had to click on the "40%" -- it's from the National Center on PTSD, part of the Veteran's Administration.

"Symptoms of major depression' date=' anxiety or post-traumatic stress disorder were reported by 16 percent to 17 percent of those who served in Iraq, 11 percent of those who were in Afghanistan and 9 percent questioned before they left."

-Thursday’s New England Journal of Medicine.

[/quote']

By "Thursday's", I think you mean "Thursday of eight years ago". Here's the article from 2004 about it: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5334479/ns/health-mental_health/t/returning-soldiers-suffers-ptsd/#.T9oXyrWbGsg

An interesting quote from the same article:

"Dr. Matthew J. Friedman, executive director of the Department of Veterans Affairs’ National Center for Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, said it is remarkable to have the study’s results available while there are still troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. But he said he believes the estimates are conservative and it may be too early to determine the extent of mental problems."

Exactly. You think that serves to strengthen your point' date=' but it doesn't, quite the opposite. These were people forced to kill by the army. They were fighting in a foreign country for no cause that a good amount of them could possibly discern.

You are, for some reason, comparing them to people in a post-apocalyptic situation who choose to be bandits. Who choose to hunt other men. These people make the conscious decision to do so. The majority would not suffer from PTSD.

[/quote']

People in the military are forced to kill, for the majority, in order to survive. They do it because someone is actively trying, has already tried, or is an imminent threat to cause harm to themselves, their buddies, or other civilians. Some people like to say that all of the killing by bandits is about survival, but it's not, really. It's a game, and they have fun playing that way.

I would accept your idea only if the premise of DayZ was some kind of Death Row Inmate Death Match, which it isn't. The number of players who "choose to hunt other men" is way out of proportion in DayZ a) because it's a game, and b) because there aren't enough (in my opinion) disincentives for behaving this way.

[Zarathustra (DayZ) 87]

I don't know where to begin with the OP's abortion of a post. If he thinks he knows anything much about philosophy he's deluding himself.

Hint: attempting to use technical terms from philosophy to make your ideas seem profound, only works if nobody understands them - if they do, you're f**ked.

The concept of humanity is not a 'modernist' one, it isn't a 'dialectic' and I cannot see how you could justify calling it a 'simulacrum'. At best, this is ignorance, at worst, charlatanism.

Stop dressing banal ideas in the finery of philosophy, it is really, really painful to read.

[billw 1]

Psycho's and sociopaths would have likely shot themselves? Sure.

Have you ever been in a psych ward? hint: I have.

Not in a professional capacity or you would know that, unless accompanied by other conditions, psychopaths and sociopaths can blend right in with everyone else. The definition is that they *have deficient or non existent empathy*. Therefore they can potentially kill without it having any negative impact on their mental state.

[Virfortis 111]

I'm intrigued by the concepts' date=' they've been touched on elsewhere.

Humanity was chosen over what it was originally called (morality) because morality gave the impression I would cast judgement over your playstyle. And that was certainly not my intention.

[/quote']

Morality, as defined by the general populace, is not arbitrary. Killing someone for personal gain is immoral, and even an immoral person will admit that. I would suggest something a lot like Amnesia, where players slowly lose their mind to paranoia and fear of reprisal.

What would temporarily calm their nerves? Cigarettes. So, if someone smells like cigarette smoke, they must need to calm down a lot. That could in turn be a signal to other survivors that this person smokes. While not necessarily a bad thing, by far, as close proximity to zombies would also drive tension up, it would give a means of identifying those that take risks and those that don't.

Alternatively, the tension eventually subsides while linked with friends.

Actually, I think a tension system would be a good idea as a whole.

[Strongarm Steve 1]

The problem with this is you're assuming that people would still be affected. When it's a life or death situation and society has been destroyed, would you really feel all that terrible killing someone in order to save yourself and your friends?

[Furious George 0]

Well said and one more thing' date=' who dont like these kind of games, leave it.

[/quote']

Yes, I evidently loathe this game and want it changed on a fundamental level because I am a huge crybaby.

Seriously I wish there was a medium to provide feedback on DayZ without having to interract with fundamental retards such as yourself.

LOL, If you cared to actually read the thread properly you would notice that you're quoting the wrong person there, "retard!" ;)

my suggestions allude towards something that ISN'T a quick fix if anything' date=' because I hate the idea of bandit skins etc. and would like something more complex.

[/quote']

again I LOL at you! Just because something is "complex" and not necessarily quick to implement doesn't mean it isn't a quick fix.

*Sigh*, but I guess that's pseudo-intellectuals for you. :dodgy:

[shadowvfx 3]

I appreciate that the OP used some intelligence to shine light on something many of us have been thinking of.

I mentioned something similar to this yesterday and have since seen a lot of people saying similar things in this thread.

http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=11015&pid=102540#pid102540

Honestly, unless you truly are a psychopath, killing another human being (especially repeatedly) will do SOMETHING to the stability of your mental state.

One thing everyone keeps mentioning that is peeving me off is that "It's the end of the world, man! All the old rules are GONE! Kill or be killed, YO!".

I can believe this attitude if your character represented the 3rd or 4th generation AFTER the apocalypse, but that's not the case. It's obvious that your character (like us playing it) came from a world with rules, laws, and morals that (despite what you WANT to think) have been ingrained into us. To pretend that it being the end of the world scenario will completely wipe that is ridiculous. Those beliefs WILL carry over, even in the new hell-on-earth.

[miqueloz 33]

I would accept your idea only if the premise of DayZ was some kind of Death Row Inmate Death Match' date=' which it isn't. The number of players who "choose to hunt other men" is way out of proportion in DayZ a) because it's a game, and b) because there aren't enough (in my opinion) disincentives for behaving this way.

[/quote']

Instead DayZ is a post-apocalyptic world where the weak would've already died, so the percentages would be completely different from a peace time western country...

[Munkeyxis 0]

These ideas are great and just the kind of topic I wanted to see in terms of how to deal with the increasing 'deathmatch-ing' that is happening. However the arguing is taking this off-topic. Let's ignore anyone that is simply dissenting without providing reasons for dissent or building on an idea...

I agree with those that say a programmed 'system' for rewarding/punishing PKing is the wrong move. I want to see other systems added that motivate positive player interactions, such as content that is so difficult to achieve that group play is required. Rocket has mentioned that group and meta gameplay is in the pipeline, I think this will help build positive player interactions.

Thus far, people have said things along the lines of 'humans are social creatures' while true, but this is only the case because our environment made social interactions beneficial to our survival. Let's face it, right now it is fully possible to survive by one's self in DayZ. Also there is a benefit to killing people over scavenging, it's possible that the other person already has the things I want. Call it crazy, but what if you couldn't loot people (unrealistic but would take away the benefit to killing others [i'm not actually in favor of this]), or less crazy, some things on the dead player have a chance to break (since they got shot up).

What we should really be trying to do here is invoke in the PLAYER the feeling that he does not want to kill people but instead realize that co-oping with them would lead to a better time and increased survival.