Banned from a server.

[AADiC 182]

As far as I'm concerned, you're arguing my point for you; clearly, you're emotionally biased, because only the potential threat of being suspended from the forum is keeping you from verbally lashing out at me - and for what? Not sharing your opinion? Does it bother you so much that other people have views that don't intersect with or run parallel to your own?

The heart of the matter: you can't really provide a reason that players carrying hacked in weapons are also cheaters besides (and these are just some colorful examples): "I said so!"; "It's obvious, duh!"; "If you don't understand, you must just be stupid!" ad infinitum - any series of words that absolve you of actually arguing your viewpoint.

Clearly it isn't as clear-cut as you'd like to think, given simply by the fact that I, and others, disagree with you.

Have a reasonable, rational, well thought-out argument for your position ready or don't have opinions, much less share them.

I'll try and make this as simple to understand as possible. The weapon does not spawn in game, the weapon is not in the loot tables. The weapon was REMOVED from the game, I do not know the exact reason, but none the less it was REMOVED. If it is no longer legitimately obtainable in DayZ, possession of it is cheating. By possessing it you gain an unfair advantage over other players.

Please give me a reason other than "Because Rocket said" why possession of a illegitimate weapon is not cheating. Yes it bothers me, because it defies common sense that anyone can believe that using something that was removed from the game by the developers of the game is not cheating.

I have provided reason why, the weapon is no longer legitimately obtainable. You can only get one by hacking it in, key word is hacking. It provides the player possessing it an unfair advantage over other players.

Giving the reason "Because Rocket said so" is not an opinion, you're just regurgitating words said by someone else. Have an opinion of your own, mine is clear.

[cwc_shadow 70]

Nicely said AADiC. Until now, no one could answer a question I wrote over a week ago:

How can some members of this communtiy actually think hacking stuff in is cheating and bad, but using that stuff is not???

The only answer I got until now was: "Rocket said you wouldn't be banned for using them!" Which does not translate to "Use it, because no Admin can ban you for it!". For the reasons, read this post with the explanations and the background of the original question which was related to a global DayZ ban.

BTW: A lot of server admins kick/ban for possesing hacked items. I don't know any case, in which a server was blacklisted for that reason. If players are warned that this is considered cheating and against the server hosting rules and they keep the weapon and join the server anyways, they know the weapon are not legit and they decided to cheat. Then they can get kicked/banned as long as the server hosting rules are the way they are now.

Edited September 26, 2012 by System98

[Swineflew 480]

Simple, not everyone who plays DayZ uses a wiki to verify every weapon the loot off a dead body.

Believe it or not, a lot of players don't use third party sites (wiki) as an official listing of what weapons they can and can't use.

I'm willing to bet a lot of players loot hacked weapons and have no idea that it's a hacked weapon.

Anyone want to argue this point or do you guys want to keep dodging it?

[maddyn99 (DayZ) 25]

Anyone want to argue this point or do you guys want to keep dodging it?

Ignorantia juris non excusat

Dont like it play on one of the other 5000 servers. I support any admin to ban any player for using a hacked weapon.

[AADiC 182]

Anyone want to argue this point or do you guys want to keep dodging it?

Very simple answer and this is what I did. I told you that the weapon was not a legitimate weapon and to discard it. If you didn't discard it, I would kick you, if you returned with it, you were banned. Those that are using the Auto kick for it have said that if you come to them, they will explain why you were kicked/banned and remove it as long as you get rid of the weapon.

[rushcrush 20]

Here are the server hosting rules. Show me the paragraph that doesn't allow admins to ban for hacked in (= cheated) weapons.

You are not permitted to ban for suspected cheats or exploits of a non-server-disruptive nature, including but not limited to ghosting, unverified cheating, duping and similar, UNLESS you have solid evidence, IE logs.

You're welcome.

[AADiC 182]

You are not permitted to ban for suspected cheats or exploits of a non-server-disruptive nature, including but not limited to ghosting, unverified cheating, duping and similar, UNLESS you have solid evidence, IE logs.

You're welcome.

Please use some common sense.

[cwc_shadow 70]

@Rush Crush: Did you even read that part carefully?

You are not permitted to ban for suspected cheats or exploits of a non-server-disruptive nature, including but not limited to ghosting, unverified cheating, duping and similar, UNLESS you have solid evidence, IE logs.

Bolded by me. If admin has proof (the logs where someone used a cheated weapon) he can ban them. Else the "unless" would be pointless and Admins wouldn't have a right to ban ANYONE.

[Swineflew 480]

Very simple answer and this is what I did. I told you that the weapon was not a legitimate weapon and to discard it. If you didn't discard it, I would kick you, if you returned with it, you were banned. Those that are using the Auto kick for it have said that if you come to them, they will explain why you were kicked/banned and remove it as long as you get rid of the weapon.

That's a valid course of action, however ban first then make a ban appeal isn't a good response.

I'm assuming that's Latin and the quote is similar to "ignorance of the law is not an excuse" but there is no official weapon listing, and you're enforcing a rule that doesn't even exist.

It's like the government telling people they can own guns, but not which ones and if you buy the wrong one you go to jail, does that make sense to anyone?

[AADiC 182]

That's a valid course of action, however ban first then make a ban appeal isn't a good response.

I'm assuming that's Latin and the quote is similar to "ignorance of the law is not an excuse" but there is no official weapon listing, and you're enforcing a rule that doesn't even exist.

It's like the government telling people they can own guns, but not which ones and if you buy the wrong one you go to jail, does that make sense to anyone?

I do not know what else to say. Certain weapons/vehicles were removed from the game. There is a rule that says you can't re-introduce them to the game. Then there is a statement that says, you can't hack them in, but if you find one of the weapons that we removed, go ahead and use it.

Now, my reasoning and every other SA who kick/bans reasoning is, if they removed them from the game, then they didn't want them to be used (I think everyone can agree with that, right ?) SO we ensure they are not. We can't speak for why they just don't say it, but I am using the brain I was born with.

[Core618 11]

I'm willing to bet a lot of players loot hacked weapons and have no idea that it's a hacked weapon.

I'm assuming that's Latin and the quote is similar to "ignorance of the law is not an excuse" but there is no official weapon listing, and you're enforcing a rule that doesn't even exist.

It's like the government telling people they can own guns, but not which ones and if you buy the wrong one you go to jail, does that make sense to anyone?

Ignorance of the law does not keep you out of prison... but it can keep you out of a server.

I run searches twice a day for specific weapons in the logs and ban for them.

If people don't like it, let them go play on another server, I really don't give a rats ass.

Edited September 28, 2012 by Core618

[Tex Willer 47]

Hey, i found a D30 Howitzer on top of pik kozlovka and was having fun bombing cherno and elektro. Then the admin banned me. WTF?

[Core618 11]

I've already given ample reason why you shouldn't be banned for just having a hacked in weapon.

Why people can't understand that boggles my mind.

I'll give you the only reason I need.. the same one my father gave me when I didn't like his rules "Because I pay the bills around here and I said so"

If you don't like my rules, go play somewhere else. Spend the 30 or 40 bucks and run your own server. They are banned from 1 server, there are thousands... stop whining and move on.

[Swineflew 480]

Double post.

Edited September 28, 2012 by Swineflew

[Swineflew 480]

I'll give you the only reason I need.. the same one my father gave me when I didn't like his rules "Because I pay the bills around here and I said so"

If you don't like my rules, go play somewhere else. Spend the 30 or 40 bucks and run your own server. They are banned from 1 server, there are thousands... stop whining and move on.

This is a prime example of why admins are so disliked around here.

I pay to host a server so I make the rules. What about the rules you agreed to when you decided to host a server? Rocket pays the bills to host the public hive and if you think it costs a mere 30-40 bucks you're insane.

If you're talking about a private hive, I don't care what you do. It you're hosting a public server you need to follow the rules, and since rocket pays more than you, and he said so that's a valid reason, right?

[mibz0r 141]

I tel you this much I don't have a problem with admins kicking and then banning for this type of abuse but if I was to join with a radio in my kit and they removed all my legit kit I can assure you that I would f**k that server over.

[flypp 21]

Is it really so hard to understand which weapon is legit?

The only silenced weapon are M4A1 CCO SD , M9 SD and Bizon SD (Thanks Oldy1Kenobi for the correction).

The only weapon with thermal vision is L85A2 AWS.

And... admins (who kick/ban players with non legit weapons) are beloved around here but by cheaters.

Am I saying taking a hacked weapon from a dead body is cheating?. Do you get unfair advantage over other players for that?. Of course. I'm saying you cheat.

Edited September 28, 2012 by flypp

[mibz0r 141]

The only silenced weapon are M4A1 CCO SD and M9 SD.

And the Bizon SD is also legit.

[DrainBamaged 38]

MP5SD6 is also legit ... just FYI.

[Swineflew 480]

Is it really so hard to understand which weapon is legit?

The only silenced weapon are M4A1 CCO SD , M9 SD and Bizon SD (Thanks Oldy1Kenobi for the correction).

The only weapon with thermal vision is L85A2 AWS.

And... admins (who kick/ban players with non legit weapons) are beloved around here but by cheaters.

Am I saying taking a hacked weapon from a dead body is cheating?. Do you get unfair advantage over other players for that?. Of course. I'm saying you cheat.

I just wanted to point out that someone who thought he knew what he was talking about was wrong when it came to legit weapons.

He tried to prove the point that its not hard to know what weapons are in game and was totally wrong about it.

How does an average player stand a chance when even people on the forums who actually do research don't even know?

[enforcer1975 1111]

I just wanted to point out that someone who thought he knew what he was talking about was wrong when it came to legit weapons.

He tried to prove the point that its not hard to know what weapons are in game and was totally wrong about it.

How does an average player stand a chance when even people on the forums who actually do research don't even know?

Well he wasn't that wrong....he didn't list a weapon that was illegal. Don't try to twist every word only to prove that you are right because you are not. There is a list on the internet, everyone who is playing the mod should at least inform himself about the game. You seem to know what is legit otherwise you would not rant about these details.

In the end it boils down to this:

Hackers / users of hacked weapons feign ignorance but insist on Rockets comment about not running into danger of beeing banned for using hacked gear.

Rocket obviously gave up on this topic because he suggested to play on private hive servers due to the persistent hacking on public hive servers, ergo admins of these servers have green light to deal with it on their hometurf. They pay, they set the rules, some abuse their powers which is tragic. You don't want to play by the rules, get your own server.

Admins do their job, hackers / users of hacked gear rant. More and more servers are becoming hacker free.

Edited September 28, 2012 by Enforcer

[cwc_shadow 70]

By the constant finger-pointing at admins in every possible way it's understandable that most don't want to bother anymore to please a community that will try to get the admins server blacklisted as soon as some feel treated wrong. Most of the admins go to a private Hive instead I guess. Even my clan is thinking about that as it would make a lot of things easier for us and the server less attractive for skiddies.

Also not all admins out there are immature kiddies who want to abuse their power. I dare to say that a big part of all the admins have quite some experience with this or at least try to learn the job they now got and sacrifice a lot of their playing time to make the server a better experience for the fair and honest players out there and to prevent cheating as good as possible. I think it's unfair to read those "kiddo admin" comments out there when clearly most of us only try to do a good job for the community to level the playing field for those who want to enjoy a fair time in DayZ. For the same community in which a lot of players think they can use every hacked gear they find because you don't get BE or globally banned in DayZ for using it and when banned immediatly try to get the server blacklisted for "ADMIN ABUSE!!!" instead of thinking about not using hacked gear in the future. Guess what, in the near future there will be a lot more private hives, because a lot of admins don't want to deal with the childish behaviour anymore and get flamed whenever they ban a cheater who then seeks revenge on this forum. And then, with more private hives, admins can do whatever they want and nobody will be able to do anything about it. Think about that.

[AADiC 182]

This is a prime example of why admins are so disliked around here.

I pay to host a server so I make the rules. What about the rules you agreed to when you decided to host a server? Rocket pays the bills to host the public hive and if you think it costs a mere 30-40 bucks you're insane.

If you're talking about a private hive, I don't care what you do. It you're hosting a public server you need to follow the rules, and since rocket pays more than you, and he said so that's a valid reason, right?

Look, I have no problem following rules that make sense. Telling me I can't remove someone from my server even though they are using a hacked weapon, that doesn't make sense on any level. Refine the rules so that they do not favor hackers/cheaters, and I will follow every single one, leave them the way they are, then I will continue to remove hackers/cheaters from the server so that EVERYONE has a level playing field.

[Heavy_Bob 34]

At the end of the day, server admins/owners can ban you regardless of the creators word. They can ban you for whatever they want and will not think twice about it because of a statement or set guidelines a third-party announces.

Ulitimantly, whoever pays for the service the user uses sets the rules. If you get banned because of a "buthurt" admin, he is just demonstrating his right as a leader of his community that the likes of you are not wanted.

By disregarding the guidelines it would be ethically wrong of administrators. Still doesn't mean they will follow them.

Edited September 28, 2012 by Heavy Bob

[Swineflew 480]

Well he wasn't that wrong....he didn't list a weapon that was illegal. Don't try to twist every word only to prove that you are right because you are not. There is a list on the internet, everyone who is playing the mod should at least inform himself about the game. You seem to know what is legit otherwise you would not rant about these details.

I'm on my phone so I can't multi-quote so this is going to address a couple posts after mine.

He was wrong about what weapons are in game, and it proves my point. He "researched" it and came back wrong. There are a lot of discrepancies like that on the forums. If there was an in/game list that everyone had access to an was the official word of rocket, then this would be a whole different argument.

People who post on forums and do out of game research is a small minority of people who play the game. Your average John Doe isn't even going to know that a weapon he picks up could be hacked in, how would he know, how would he even know where to look? The website? No. The forums? No. An unofficial wiki? Yes.

Now I 100% agree with letting someone know they have a hacked weapon and making them remove it, if they don't then fine ban them.

I do not agree that banning someone for using a hacked weapon that they looted and then making them appeal that ban is the correct course of action.

I will never ever agree with the "I pay for it so I don't care what the agreement says, this is my server and I run it how I want". Private servers fine, do whatever makes you happy, but if you're connected to the public hive the rules need followed because what happens on your server has the potential to spill over into other servers.

So you may say "it's simple the weapon was hacked in so they're cheating" but the simple fact is that they aren't cheating. They broke no rules, they didn't use any scripts or hacks or exploits. They killed a guy, looted him and are then punished for playing the game exactly how it was meant to be played.

I'm not saying let them keep the gun, or that having hacked weapons in the game is good on any level. I don't agree that banning people who don't do anything wrong is not the right way to handle the situation.

Again this is all in relation to public servers.