Humanity System - Rocket, have a minute?

[Tekk (DayZ) 0]

Excellent idea IMO, it resolves the problem of survivors crying about being back-stabbed or complaining about the huge amount of PvP going on without putting bandits at a unrealistic disadvantage.

Also to rocket: By introducing a system like this then you already have factions (if this faction idea is really going to be implemented) which are survivors (who don't have the arm-band) and bandits (who do), then you could add other colours if that's how this game is going to evolve.

Furthermore, someone (DemonGroover) suggested that it could be the other way around as survivors would most likely want to signal that they're friendly and not the other way around.

This system of an arm-band would be an awesome way for survivors to either hide/avoid/engage bandits and gameplay is not changed in a negative way for bandits (flies following bandits and a heartbeat sound when a survivor aims at a bandit for example gives survivors a huge advantage over bandits in a unrealistic way)

[FragMonkey 1]

I'm pretty sure implementing arm bands into dayZ would be very very difficult.

The arma engine has a really hard time with skins as it is, and thats why there are so many issues with picking up alternative costumes at the moment. Trying to add pieces of clothing on is not something the engine can do easily

[Tekk (DayZ) 0]

Just my two cents being thrown in' date=' but I think the tension of "is this a bandit or a survivor" is a huge part of player interactions. Despite being more subtle, this still HUGELY affects how you interact with people, and that tension is totally lost.

I personally don't think any solution that involves the equivalent of "Hey I killed people... well I should make sure everyone I meet knows that" will be a consequence without punishment.

Rocket's 'crows in the sky' idea is still my favorite suggestion. It's subtle enough that when you're in town, and you see birds overhead you don't know who is the bandit right away. This still leaves some tension of "who am I dealing with, there is a bandit close but this might not be him." And if fits realistic requirements too. As he said, crows are among the smartest birds and it is possible they'd realize following a particular person keeps leading them to food. It even solves the 'forced-self-proclamation of bandit-hood'

Lastly, the crows idea leaves room for surprises since it isn't a straight out give-away. For example: "I've been running around with this guy for a while now, he seems nice... wait... are those crows following us....FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!"

[/quote']

I understand about this survivor to bandit interaction you speak of, however I respectfully disagree with you. As of now, the game makes bandits look like survivors and a player confrontation is definitely tense, but the problem is that someone who is willing to trust other players will surely not be so trusting once they've been shot a few times trying to make friends. This is the problem with leaving the bandit-survivor system at it's purest form, it's extremely hard to trust someone and most will choose to just shoot on sight, this means that people start complaining that there's too much PvP.

However, with this arm band system it distinguishes bandits from survivors in a subtle way, without giving either side an advantage over the other.

Also, IMO the crows flying over a bandit idea gives the survivor an advantage they shouldn't have, if survivors happen to see crows flying over a forest for example they could track the bandit for as long as they want and shoot him in the back, which could be exploited like crazy, it'll mean bandits can't play stealthily or hide with a flock of crows above him.

[pepperkorn@gmail.com 94]

demonized eyes if bandit.. Problem solved

[maxviklund@gmail.com 0]

As a player that kills, steals and griefs 24/7 i LOVE this idea! I do this because it does not matter. I can team up if I want, or just kill everyone. No one will notice anything.

[Col.Hannabal Smith 1]

How about not giving the armbands to bandits but giving something to friendly players that would show other friendlies that they are not hostile thus doing away with the shoot on sight mentality.If you have someone in your sights and are unsure of them and then you see them with the friendly armband/skin so you don't shoot(if your friendly yourself that is). Don't make bandits stick out, just make it easier to spot friendlies especially with the side chat been removed completely soon communications will be a lot less active so any visual clues could be life savers.

[Munkeyxis 0]

I'd prefer to see ideas about how positive interactions between players can be encouraged WITHOUT the use of a specific system to reward/punish those types of actions.

While I understand that in a game such a system may be a necessity, because the same emotions cannot be evoked in a simulated environment, I do think it should be pointed out the humanity is not a system. What you are seeing now IS humanity, just humanity were simulated death has little repercussions for the killer and even the killed.

The problem with a coded system for something like humanity is that it's so hard to calculate when someone should actually be punished. Killing in self defense does not merit punishment, nor should accidents.

In a real doomsday scenario you would have no idea who to trust. You WOULD be paranoid, shoot first, loot and steal if it meant your survival or the survival of those you cared for.

Unfortunately I have few ideas how to invoke true 'humanity' in a simulated world. But I'd really like to hear from others about any ideas.

Permanent username's (which is already kinda there) is one way, reputation is one means of motivating people to moderate their own behavior.

Perhaps a bounty system would make bandits a bit more reluctant, knowing they could soon be hunted. (not 100% serious about this idea, just spit ballin)

Besides that I see playing as a friendly as actually more challenging, requiring more skill to survive when you trust no one yet do not want to risk a fire fight.

[sk1e 0]

and what if i kill in self defence, i become bandit?

[mre 1]

Instead of armbands.. just have factions wear specific "garb" that go with a faction that can easily be just as distinguishable.

Whatever ARMA II already gives you.. caps, bandanas, helmets, keffiyehs, etc..

[flyingmonkey (DayZ) 0]

Dislike sight cues as obvious as armbands would be, and anything like scars or slightly paler skin wouldn't really be noticeable before you are already hitting the pavement.

I think Rocket has a good thing going with utilizing sound cues, they aren't overly obvious, and will require you to be very vigilant of the surrounding noises to pick them up. IMHO, much more immersive.

[Strongarm Steve 1]

Why would any bandit wear an arm-band? It seems more likely to me that only people who want to associate with a certain faction would make the effort to identify themselves as such because otherwise one is merely labeling themselves as a potential threat.

I really like Rocket's idea of armbands being used to factions. That is how it should work. This would also allow players to gain additional information about random people. If someone has an armband, they're probably a part of some time of group. Is it a survivor group or a bandit group? Well, that's up to you to find out.

[Lapis 4]

All i want. Is the ability to wear what I want. if you murder you shouldnt be forced to carry a sign that says "hey i murdered someone while nobody was around"

[deepfried 95]

How about music cues? different ambient music if there is a bandit nearby. something edgy presumably.

[onky 0]

Miyo, the idea of armbands had already been proposed by Starshina in this forum, but was lost due to forum backup restore. He actually took that one step further - survivors would get different color bands, and both "factions" would have a choice to wear their bands or not, so one could always stay in between, if they wanted.

[dea†h 0]

How about music cues? different ambient music if there is a bandit nearby. something edgy presumably.

Great idea!

Imagine being at your little camp site in a forest and the eerie bandit music starts to play. Everyone at the camp will be on edge and paranoid knowing a bandit entered the area close to the camp. Music will work better than the heart beat idea as this won't give the exact location away of the bandit.

This should be used for super low humanity.

For players that just got low humanity it would be cool to have a very subtle cue such as darting eyes and sweating face as Rocket suggested. As these players might have had to kill someone as self defense the visual cues indicating guilt and anxiety because of what they had to do.

Though lets say there are 5 players in a area of Cherno 4 friendly and 1 bandit. The bandit cue is playing, so now all players are weary of whoever they run into. There is now a good chance friendlies will shoot each other on site.

Will be a great way to add suspense in a area.

Lastly it makes me sad that the bandit model is taken out. It would be really cool if it could spawn as loot which anyone could pick up and wear.

[xls.akm@gmail.com 0]

Music poping up when someone comes close? No thank you, don't want some magic way to know if another player is around.

As for armband I don't know really, its just the same as the bandit skin exept its not as noticable.

At the moment I still think a heartbeat to represent your gut fealing is the best way, but only if looking directly at the player and at very close range. If we of course must have a system like that.

[dea†h 0]

Music poping up when someone comes close? No thank you' date=' don't want some magic way to know if another player is around.

At the moment I still think a heartbeat to represent your gut fealing is the best way, but only if looking directly at the player and at very close range. If we of course must have a system like that.

[/quote']

Guess you are right, but would be nice to know when your camp is about to be attacked by bandits and the suspense would freak everyone at the camp out :P

Would be similar to left 4 dead's sound cues, though a step away from realism.

[ten bensons 1]

Excellent idea IMO' date=' it resolves the problem of survivors crying about being back-stabbed or complaining about the huge amount of PvP going on without putting bandits at a unrealistic disadvantage.

Also to rocket: By introducing a system like this then you already have factions (if this faction idea is really going to be implemented) which are survivors (who don't have the arm-band) and bandits (who do), then you could add other colours if that's how this game is going to evolve.

Furthermore, someone (DemonGroover) suggested that it could be the other way around as survivors would most likely want to signal that they're friendly and not the other way around.

This system of an arm-band would be an awesome way for survivors to either hide/avoid/engage bandits and gameplay is not changed in a negative way for bandits (flies following bandits and a heartbeat sound when a survivor aims at a bandit for example gives survivors a huge advantage over bandits in a unrealistic way)

[/quote']

I think the armband idea for survivors is a great idea and could work very well for all playstyles if it was an equip-able item on the default (non camo etc) skins.

Suggestion

So imagine you are a friendly survivor, you want to show you are friendly, you find an armband, lets say a yellow one. It takes up a slot in your inventory and you equip it now everyone can see your good intentions.

So you are neutral/lone wolf? You find a yellow armband and leave it in the lootpile coz you are neutral right?;) Maybe not, you could take it for when you want to have a random co-op session

So your a bandit eh? You find a yellow armband and equip it knowing it will give you the appearance of being friendly thus allowing for crafty backstabs/false sense of security situations.

So your a total psychopath hell bent on destroying the fragmented remains of the human race? You find a yellow armband and equip it knowing it will give you the appearance of being friendly thus allowing for crafty backstabs/false sense of security situations IF you actually haven't shot them in the face on the first sighting. Maybe your armband should be stained with the blood of a thousand souls?

So your a...Just kidding:P I think this system benefits all the major play styles in DayZ it gives everybody the freedom to choose (the whole ethos of this 'experiment') if they want to have a visual representation of their false/true intentions.Remember the armband should be for the default survivour kit ONLY. This will keep the atmosphere an uncertain one - as whether you see a survivor/camo /ghillie suit you never know.

TL;DR

Armbands is a great idea! Now read why i think it could work well for all play styles.

[razghul 2]

I think it would be viable to turn this whole thing around, make it more realistic. No Bandit would "want" to show his attitude, that would make life only harder for him.

But the other way around ! Survivors looking for friends to make survival easier would want to show that, so they don´t get shot on sight by other friendly survivors. Leave everybody with his skin, but give the positive humanity (above the starting value!!) survivors an Armband or any other symbol. Also, you could for example restrict the "salute" gesture to those "good" survivors (as like a secret sign / symbol between them.. and only them).

Ofcourse in reality, bandits would find out and dress with those symbols too (or use those gestures), but i guess we have to make some kind of compromise between reality and gameplay.

Like this, you wouldnt know who´s a bandit, but at least you wouldnt have to shoot friendly survivors, just out of paranoia.

[The Toolman (DayZ) 0]

well, i must say i just don't care because in 9 of 10 deaths i had, i never even see from where i got shot. you could have put the bandit in a yellow bikini and i would not have seen him because usually bandits use sniper rifles. so i don't care much and the one time i have seen the person who killed me was just when i came in a server. i spawned 1 meter away from someone who was already at that place ...and so i got instantly killed by this "nice guy".

by the way, i never played as a bandit and never killed anyone - except zombies.

i am just a few hours now here in the forum and see many people comparing a computer game (DayZ) with real life which is really funny for me because it is just a fucking computer game and will always be. most of the people here - even myself - never fired a gun or a sniper rifle in real life... and do not work as bandits in their job. (except you work in the government or bank which are all criminals, no matter in which country!). so all make comparisons with real life, but here we want markings to bandits .. well, this would be a great idea even for the real world. thiefes get yellow armbands, murerers get red ones and terrorists have to wear always yellow bikinis ..... well mr. bin laden, here we go ....with all the pain he brought to the world we would have had something to laugh about.

however.... at least, this here is just a game which need some balance and because i am no game designer i have no idea how this will end. i even don't care because i play just as long i have fun with it.

[razghul 2]

But that´s not the problem, when somebody snipes you it´s bad luck or you havent been carefull. The problem is when you want to cooperate with people and have 10 chances to shoot them, but you don´t. Then you talk to them, they turn around and shoot you in the back. That´s the problem... You need something to measure wether they usually do that or not. Otherwise coop will die

[zorkmid 2]

I think that adding voice chat to direct comm would fix coop. It's harder to betray someone that you've heard.

[Dinnj 4]

Oh god why, we've already had this exact idea and I just don't want to explain why it's so damaging all over again. Use the search function? I hope it wasn't one of those threads that was lost, we'd just about started to resolve it.

[Hirox3 0]

I havnt played Day Z yet but ive seen a SH!Z load of gameplay maybe if you aim at a player with low humanity the info could show up red?

[Dinnj 4]

Additional skins is fine. Forcing player killers to have a unique skin is stupid' date=' for reasons I have stated countless times. (It is such a shame so many threads got deleted, so I would not be going through this all again.)

I do not want any playstyle to be made more or less rewarding. Being a shoot on sight style bandit (Not one that intentionally tries to find people for their items, hell it's closer to a survivor,) is the most effective play style because of natural factors. Such as how people play the game, how people react to one another, [b']playing like that isn't the best method because of getting an artificial cookie every time you shoot someone, it's just how the world of Day Z inherently works. People should play however they like, one play style will always be better than others, I'm just saying let that be dictated naturally and have the ability to evolve over time because of player decisions, not because of weird forced game mechanics.

Yes, more group orientated tools for groups is great.

I'm all for that. Just not weird, unrealistic, (Yes, this is an unrealistic game, but it tries to be as much as possible,) artificial balancing mechanics.

Stop trying to oversimplify the mod with weird immersion breaking mechanics to make life more convenient. "Shoot the red one" is not fulfilling or interesting.