Remove humanity system(I m a survivor). Bandit/survivor concept "kills" the game

[Srellian 0]

So make humanity open to the top and have a humanity leaderboard and a humanity/day leaderboard and a humanity/whatever leaderboard?

Nope.

Surviving should be the only motivation for players,

not getting on the top of whatever leaderboard.

[Braddus 0]

I'm a nub to this mod and I don't know exactly how humanity works, but I assume it's essentially; kill players and humanity goes down, eventually labeled as a bandit.

The thing is, the society within this game, and the social structure of Zombie Apocalypses are a great example of Hobbes' 'state of nature'.

You are always going to be under the threat of murder. It the state of nature it would be impossible to identify whom may attack you. If you possess something they don't, there is no reason why they should not try to take it from you. Removal of the humanity system and the 'bandit' labels and such promotes this paranoia.

I've seen the argument in this thread that essentially flows "it's just a game, there's no consequences for killing another player, no one would care." This is very much true. But this is also true of the state of nature. There are no repercussions, there is no social contract, no government or laws. In the state of nature it would be safer to kill another than to negotiate and risk letting them gain the initiative.

Without the labels; every meeting of another player becomes the most distressing event possible. Just as you would in the state of nature, you would have no knowledge of their intentions and they of you. Do you kill them to erase the threat? Hide from them? Interrogate them for their intentions or simply pass by peacefully? Maybe someone who plays a bandit would cooperate if thrown into a real state of nature, but that doesn't mean there wouldn't be individuals who killed for safety, provisions or sport in the state of nature. These players therefore account for the personalities that would arise anyway within reality.

tl;dr: Removing the humanity/bandit labeling system could potentially add much depth to the PvP aspect of the game. Every encounter has the potential to be deadly and gut instincts will become a predominant part of social interaction.

On the other hand it could actually just create a permanent state of war between players.

[100radsbar 11]

I have not tried the Mod yet, but seen a number of videos on Youtube.

There are a few things that at present keep me from getting started.

1st of all it is the incredible speed at which the Zombies move. You have people who have died, somehow their bodies are re-animated, but they are in a decaying state, that would also mean that their muscles, and sinews are slowly decaying, which would make it very difficult for them to move at the sprinting speeds seen in the game, I mean I am alive and can't move as fast, and change direction as fast as them :)

I would prefer slower moving Zombies (Like in Walking dead, etc. but more of them, so if you are spotted you will face a lot of them, not just a small group.

2nd, the Mod needs some way for people to interact with each other.

Perhaps by holstering your weapon, or some sort of greeting animation you can indicate you are friendly.

Or you can make use of the voice communication, I do not know how it works in the game, but if it was possible, you could press the speak button, and the people (and Zombies) with-in 100 meters could hear you, that way you would be able to say don't shoot / I am friendly, or the other guy could say: You have 2 minutes to get lost before I shoot. You get my drift. :)

I come from the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. games/mods, and there you get a verbal response from NPC's when you get to close with your weapon out, and if you get with-in an arms length still with your gun out and try to talk to the NPC he will hit you in the face so that you drop your gun.

Also some sort of trade/barter option would be nice, so that the players can trade goods, like 2 bandages for a can of food, or whatever they decide to trade.

You could then have a Leaderboard for the top-trader. That would be the guys who play the survival game, instead of the shoot-all-that-moves game.

In my opinion the people who play this game just to shoot all other players, should go back to Counter-Strike. Since from what I can see, and read, this game is not about shooting all living and undead that moves, but surviving the Apocalypse.

The debug window is unnecessary, since it serves no purpose in-game. I don't know if some sort of Karma system can be implemented, if you kill people that have holstered their weapon should have some negative effect, perhaps when reaching a certain limit (lets say 5) 50 hungry Zombies surround you :)

In real life you have your conscience to guide you, and you are faced with flesh & blood real people, in the game it is only pixels you kill, and some guy from another country you piss off.

Because of that players will have to have some form of punishment if they behave badly, the game mechanics will have to be their conscience, and a guide on how to behave in the virtual game world.

Also if you die your Karma should be reset, after a day or two, so if you get offed by Karma, the 5 person killed will reset to 0.

I think most people will play this game for the survival element, not just to kill everything that moves. And playing the survival element should somehow be rewarded, and the Counter Strike players should not.

[bj.laforest@yahoo.com 0]

Currently as it stands I agree the humanity system is really a joke. I hope rocket puts more thought into it which I think he will.

[Never 237]

The 'bandit meme' is holding back this mod.

I've stated before that the mod makes you play in such a moral grey area that having extremes as 'bandit' and 'carebear' JUST DO NOT FIT WITH THE REST OF THE MOD. Its a flawed concept that doesn't work, and its due to the meme its created that people thinks its needed.

Simply:

Bandits skins was bunk. STRIKE ONE.

Heartbeats are bunk. STRIKE TWO.

Now lets be fair cos a lot of you people seem to think people stick to only one method of playing (you loons) so i propose this as a balance:

Redesign the 'bandit system' for one last time, IF ITS STILL FLAWED, BIN IT, ENTIRELY.

Personally i'd throw it out now.

[logan23 118]

Bandits are on the Webpage next zombies to kill or watch out for. Lol

I do understand people playstyle change as they play DayZ but you can't say Bandit is a meme.....there is a section for Bandits on this forum. Bandits exist and there is a large enough numbers of them that proudly call themselves bandits.

What I do predict in the future Bandits my mean more of a Faction or a title for many factions as the game evolves.

The reason for mechanics like bandit skin and heartbeat mechanics being tested is because there is a fear that the mod will be come player kill/loot player focus over bring a survival game with Zombies/infected as the universal theme. If this mod just becomes player kill/loot focus then the game becomes shallow.

The Devs are working on making it dynamic and emotional tense that's why we see Zombies coming back as a major threat.

I believe they want not just players who help others feel fear but also players who think this is a Loot collect base game - to feel Fear.

That's all :)

[Never 237]

Bandits are on the Webpage next zombies to kill or watch out for. Lol

I do understand people playstyle change as they play DayZ but you can't say Bandit is a meme.....there is a section for Bandits on this forum.

See personally i think the separate forums are just reenforcing this defunct way of thinking, and its holding us all back.

And i totally agree, that is why its being tested, the focus should be on staying alive and it shouldn't devolve into yet another murderdeathkill FPS. But so far neither way its been implemented are working, mainly because its an enforced emotional response in a game thats otherwise sandbox.

Personally the game can't emulate the emotionally response better then the real one i'm already having whenever i encounter another player i don't know.

The PVP problem has a lot more to do with player mentality backed with a lack of other things to do then loot hunt. At the moment,DayZ 'endgame' play is:

Find big gun> find ammo for big gun> get bored> go see what holes big gun makes in things.

Those 'things' are zombies, players, whatever gets in the way.

PVP will always exist still, but bandits don't really exist apart from as a dysfunctional outdated mindset, but its not the problem, lack of challenge is.

[mikyjax 3]

Yeah I think the leaderboard is a new awfull thing that can't help the mod in any way :(

[smithy0815 6]

Whats with random generated loot instead of loot the whole bagpack and inventory of a killed person.

only way to get things is to change thigs for other things with other people.

So the reasons to kill somebody gets reduced a bit...

[100radsbar 11]

Whats with random generated loot instead of loot the whole bagpack and inventory of a killed person.

only way to get things is to change thigs for other things with other people.

So the reasons to kill somebody gets reduced a bit...

Actually that sounds like a good idea :)

[Zwans 1]

+1 on this idea! remove any notion of a players past!

Not for heavy harted discussion topics like "humanity" and "good and evil" and all that, but for the simple fact that it will make the game more exiting, more dangerous AND more variable!

It is simple, often people kill someone out of greed, amusement, fear, whatever. It doesn't nesecary make them a "bandit" (as you call someone who will kill anyone he sees for the fun and gain of it.). However, if you brand them with a tag, a different look, a sound, because of a mistake they will expecting te be treated like a bandit, oh, and also, they will be treated like a bandit. I can live with the hearbeat if i must, but I think it will be better to hide a characters past. It will make the "life" story you experience more intense, and people will get second chances.

---

Whats with random generated loot instead of loot the whole bagpack and inventory of a killed person.

only way to get things is to change thigs for other things with other people.

So the reasons to kill somebody gets reduced a bit...

nooooooooooo...

[ryansongy@hotmail.com 27]

Honestly if I killed a post-apocalyptic cannibal psychopath that was trying to kill me or my loved ones I sure as fuck wouldn't feel bad about it at all. At all. And neither would anyone else o.O

I don't kill on sight but if someone attacks someone in my group I kill them and feel no remorse.

[lunaraitic 0]

I was talking about this to thebaneofkane last night in irc. He wanted to add more rediculous limitations on bandits... I think your completly correct bandits do not need to be announced by a skin change or a heart beat thump or an angry face.... Thats unrealistic and labels people.

I play mostly as a bandit But once in a while i will 100% genuinely help someone in game leave them a weapon or food or something just because Now should i be penalized for being too nice to newbies now since i would be penalized for being too mean and shooting them I dont think so, We all should be allowed to do what we want in game weather its shoot a person or a zed your choice no skin change do to it. If i get a skin change i want it to be from me Earning something Such as finding a guilli suit Or a cool western hat or something.

[BloodFreak 0]

It's normal that after killing 200 people my character will automatically find and equip a skin that say: Hey I'm evil!

I want to be that kind of bandit that sneak on someone and stab him, but if I get a skin i'm auto kill on site.

Heart beat is nice and all since player actually need to take you down.

[Hieronymus Josche 2]

I think some sort of accountability for killing/helping/surviving would go a long way, right now, superficially anyway, it seems that killing players is the most immediately "rewarding" behavior. The game has a plethora of really powerful ballistic weapons, so people tend to follow that path of interaction with other players and the environment.

[gizm0 96]

Yes, lets just make this a game where cunts are the only ones who get instant gratification.