Is KOS really that big of a problem?

[colekern 1364]

This poll, and the questions in it do not represent my views on DayZ.

There have been a lot of threads complaining about KOS lately. Is it really that big of a deal? Should we address it?

Edited September 16, 2012 by smasht_AU

[terex 322]

I don't get why these are made in the first place or how anyone can complain about a preferred play style. The game leaves it up to the player to pick and choose how they want to play and react to every situation differently. Just because you don't want to shoot the guy you see 200m away doesn't mean he has to be friendly and give you all his friggin items. I don't care to meet up with most people when I am playing solo, if you have a gun I am shooting you. If playing with some friends or party vehicle then pretty much only returning fire.

[Angel Knight 427]

Right now, there is very little motivation to NOT kill on sight. You remove a threat and gain their items.

There needs to be some motivation to play in a different way, the hero skin movespeed and supposed bullet resistance is a step in the right direction towards balancing things out.

[terex 322]

Right now, there is very little motivation to NOT kill on sight. You remove a threat and gain their items.

There needs to be some motivation to play in a different way, the hero skin movespeed and supposed bullet resistance is a step in the right direction towards balancing things out.

You probably won't stop saving someone who is about to die asking if their is a reward, you do it because you feel it is right morally. Some might not be able to do so given the chance to or would choose not to. People looking for an advantage or a reward for preferred play style aren't heroes I think. Being a hero seems more of a trait or someone with too much faith in people. ;)

[Just a Goat 25]

Grouping is already rewarded and encouraged.

There are a lot of people in here whining about KOS who are doing things far more idiotic.

Let's take sneaking up on someone and pointing a gun at them, and telling them to "freeze" or "drop their weapon" so that you can "make sure they're friendly" as an example. Additionally, we can toss in addressing someone from a hidden location, since on the receiving end it all looks the same. This is a commonly advocated non-KOS tactic.

It's idiotic, it leads to gunfights, and if you get wrecked doing it you deserve every last bit of it. They are 100% justified in shooting your ass.

Quite simply - who the hell do you think you are running around pulling stunts like that? Ethically it's not any different than KOS, it's just riskier for you. You're coercing people even if you're too dim to understand that people you've told to not move or turn around will assume they have a gun pointed at them. When you point guns at people, bad things frequently happen.

If you pulled this sort of stunt IRL, in many cases and jurisdictions they'd be legally justified in shooting you. I imagine many players living in places where they're just peons and not actual citizens have no experience with this sort of thing. The main motivation to de-escalate these sorts of things IRL is not wanting to have to deal with the legal hassles. In-game, there are no such hassles. If you expect someone to do anything other than shoot you in the face in response, then you're a fool who assumes they're also a fool.

If you want to ethically avoid killing players, then your only reasonable options are paying attention and avoiding them entirely, or having big brass balls and approaching them while clearly not presenting a threat.

All that's left after that is either kill-on-sight or kill-or-evade.

We also need to address the bizarre fixation some people have on not getting shot by other people. These people seem to assume they have some sort of value to others. They often don't. Most likely you have nothing they want, you can't do anything for them that they can't do better on their own, and they're not interested in being your friend. If you approach them you're either a hostile, an idiot, or someone wanting something. There is no reason for them to help you, and the reasonable thing for them to do is either flee or shoot you.

The game is a sandbox. People are frequently going to shape their part of the world by removing you from it.

Edited September 15, 2012 by Just a Goat

[SillySil 295]

The game leaves it up to the player to pick and choose how they want to play and react to every situation differently.

That's false logic. It's like saying "the game leaves it up to the player to pick their weapon" in a topic about a clearly overpowered weapon on a forum of some FPS game.

DayZ favors killing people. Simply because there are downsides to being friendly because there is always a good chance you'll just get shot, either in the face or in the back. While it doesn't give you any downsides to killing people on sight, except making noise, and that's it. Especially if you already have friends that you're playing DayZ with.

It's not about punishing bandits, it's about NOT punishing friendlies. Both playstyles should be on equal footing and only then the choice would be a matter of purely personal opinion.

[terex 322]

That's false logic. It's like saying "the game leaves it up to the player to pick their weapon" in a topic about a clearly overpowered weapon on a forum of some FPS game.

DayZ favors killing people. Simply because there are downsides to being friendly because there is always a good chance you'll just get shot, either in the face or in the back. While it doesn't give you any downsides to killing people on sight, except making noise, and that's it. Especially if you already have friends that you're playing DayZ with.

It's not about punishing bandits, it's about NOT punishing friendlies. Both playstyles should be on equal footing and only then the choice would be a matter of purely personal opinion.

It's a PvP game. If you can't handle the PvP aspects, go play a coop game. Not even reading your post because I know you like to cry over "senseless killing"

[shagohad 124]

It's a PvP game. If you can't handle the PvP aspects, go play a coop game. Not even reading your post because I know you like to cry over "senseless killing"

wtf?

why the fuck are you here if you arent going to read his post, it was not "crying over sensless killing" at all....

the problem at the moment I think is that the whole idea of a persistent charachter with one life has been eroded. The high chance that you will die to hacking and that you can find elite gear in about half an hour on the coast has made life pretty cheap.

i think something like a hive wipe as discussed in another pole would restore some balance, because at the moment no one has anything to lose, they can get all thier shit back plus some, death has no consequence

[terex 322]

wtf?

why the fuck are you here if you arent going to read his post, it was not "crying over sensless killing" at all....

the problem at the moment I think is that the whole idea of a persistent charachter with one life has been eroded. The high chance that you will die to hacking and that you can find elite gear in about half an hour on the coast has made life pretty cheap.

i think something like a hive wipe as discussed in another pole would restore some balance, because at the moment no one has anything to lose, they can get all thier shit back plus some, death has no consequence

Not to OP, just SillySil. We've had our past connections. Killing on sight isn't an issue, it's an option that a lot of players like to take so adapt to it and maybe return fire? Don't let your guard down? A lot of the times I auto run in huge fields waiting for people to open up fire on giving their spot away.

[SillySil 295]

It's a PvP game. If you can't handle the PvP aspects, go play a coop game. Not even reading your post because I know you like to cry over "senseless killing"

I like to cry over senseless killing yet I kill on sight everyone except my friends and love firefights in electro. Right.

[Sm1L3y 9]

I don't think we should have any personal benfits for not killing other survivors, but instead have more teamwork action (like blood transfusion).

[Gavalin 90]

Not to OP, just SillySil. We've had our past connections. Killing on sight isn't an issue, it's an option that a lot of players like to take so adapt to it and maybe return fire? Don't let your guard down? A lot of the times I auto run in huge fields waiting for people to open up fire on giving their spot away.

Ok considering you don't wanna read, fine, here is your flawed logic.

Game -isn't based on PvP- it is -one- of the elements in the game. Rocket wanted it to be a threat NOT THE ENTIRE GAME. Right now KoSing isn't a problem I don't mind people doing it. The issue is -that is all there is- because its just simply set up to be mechanically better to just ROFLTSTOMP KOS ALT F4 EVERYONE ....

That is not what DayZ is -suppose- to be. Again no one was -crying about senseless killing- you've missed that point in three threads now.

What the issue is...there is no balance. Meaning -everyone is killing- well 80% of the population is. That wasn't what was intended. As of right now the DayZ mod is nothing more then any other FPS. For most people eating, drinking, and how cold they are doesn't even matter, they run into Electro find a gun and get shot. Or other wise die to the first person that sees them.

Again let me say, I'm not bitching about KoS, since you seem to not realize thats not the issue.

Its the fact that the mod is nothing more then CoD or BF3 with zombies in it. So what ever you keep thinking, stop. Think outside the box and realize that -this isn't a death match game- PvP is suppose to be in it, yes, but not like it exsists now.

[DrunkPunk 159]

The fact that there are (at the time of posting this) 8 people who think this is a problem that needs addressing, tells me one thing and one thing alone....

You people are playing the wrong game. Quit trying to fuck with the only game we have left that doesn't cater to the carebears and go play one of the other countless games your kind has corrupted.

[terex 322]

Ok considering you don't wanna read, fine, here is your flawed logic.

Game -isn't based on PvP- it is -one- of the elements in the game. Rocket wanted it to be a threat NOT THE ENTIRE GAME. Right now KoSing isn't a problem I don't mind people doing it. The issue is -that is all there is- because its just simply set up to be mechanically better to just ROFLTSTOMP KOS ALT F4 EVERYONE ....

That is not what DayZ is -suppose- to be. Again no one was -crying about senseless killing- you've missed that point in three threads now.

What the issue is...there is no balance. Meaning -everyone is killing- well 80% of the population is. That wasn't what was intended. As of right now the DayZ mod is nothing more then any other FPS. For most people eating, drinking, and how cold they are doesn't even matter, they run into Electro find a gun and get shot. Or other wise die to the first person that sees them.

Again let me say, I'm not bitching about KoS, since you seem to not realize thats not the issue.

Its the fact that the mod is nothing more then CoD or BF3 with zombies in it. So what ever you keep thinking, stop. Think outside the box and realize that -this isn't a death match game- PvP is suppose to be in it, yes, but not like it exsists now.

So how is the "PvP supposed to exist"? Sounds like you grew up in the generation thinking WoW was the first mmorpg ever made and that PvP is always fair.

[aggressivek 22]

Thats why this game has two roles a survivor and a bandit. You have the choice of being one of the two and yet people still get butt hurt when they're a survivor and a bandit kills them? Its because they chose to be a bandit and not a survivor, personally I can't stand being a survivor because its boring to me. If you're a survivor and you don't wan't to die, stay off of high populated servers or if you wan't to be in high populated servers stay out of the big cities, its as easy as that.

[Gavalin 90]

The fact that there are (at the time of posting this) 8 people who think this is a problem that needs addressing, tells me one thing and one thing alone....

You people are playing the wrong game. Quit trying to fuck with the only game we have left that doesn't cater to the carebears and go play one of the other countless games your kind has corrupted.

*Chuckle* Look. I don't know if you were reading or not, seems to be a forum habit, ya know not reading.

1: Let it be know I do not want the games population to be ALL KoS'ers (which its 80%)

2: I want Bandits to exsist, they bring an element to the game that is real and nice to have.

3: For you people that say it should be a moral question what players should choose to do need to understand there isn't a moral obligation in DayZ -that- is what the balance issue is coming from. I understand the world is full of people that would kill me and take my beans. It happens with out a zombie apoc...the issue. Considering the emotional attachment and moral obligations are MIA. Most people just kill you. So to give the game a balance something has to happen.

4: So for the game to end up like 25% bandits 25% heros 50% -what evers- would be awesome. Since its more beneficial to shoot someone take their stuff or remove the threat you got that extra 50% turning toward Banditry. Unbalancing the game.

[omgwtfbbq (DayZ) 1069]

Don't punish bandits or KoS, just discourage them from doing it. The bandit skin is genius. If you're a hero, you can't be killed by low-caliber weapons, and you run faster. If you're a "bandit" you get shot on sight by everyone. This is a perfect balance!

[Gavalin 90]

So how is the "PvP supposed to exist"? Sounds like you grew up in the generation thinking WoW was the first mmorpg ever made and that PvP is always fair.

I don't have a fix for the unbalance issues. These threads, the reason I am present in them, is to try to make it known that PvP -should- if you kill me awesome, good jerp. I'm on the coast playing dayz. However there -should- be something that coastal folks gain from working together. To encourage it more. Because that was the original intend. You don't have a family to protect, a simulation of that would be awesome.

The closest at all you get is if you have a friend, he breaks a leg, you can go get morphine. However if you guys have not noticed the amount of stories where people befriended someone, even started talking to them on a first name basis then later just caps them? Things like that. Again I can understand people going crazy -that- shit would happen. But as of now most of the DayZ players left are all like that.

Again I don't mind if I get shot, I expect it. I expect to shoot some people. You are right if you wanna play how you play it should be your choice but a lot of people don't have a moral guidance system in gaming. So they just do what is easier. Banditry is easier.

And if the game turns into just one big death match it won't stay alive. Its got the potential to be the greatest game ever created. It calls to such a big crowd of folks its dumb.

You asked me how PvP should exsist, I tell you it should, yes. How to balance it...I have no clue. The only thing you can really do is give small PvE bonus' to people who prefer it. Thats the best option I can see.

Edited September 15, 2012 by Gavalin

[terex 322]

How is DayZ not balanced? There are no classes, skills, leveling, everyone has the same skill set from spawn. I don't care to meet up with some random guy I see. How is that hard to understand an accept? NOT EVERYONE WANTS TO BE YOUR FRIEND AND HUG EACH OTHER. Do you even know what balance means in game terms? Something not balanced would be, a bandit has 50k blood and survivors have 15k. :facepalm:

Edited September 15, 2012 by terrex

[omgwtfbbq (DayZ) 1069]

Balance would be, a bandit has 50k blood and survivors have 15k.

How is this balanced? it should be the other way around.

[terex 322]

How is this balanced? it should be the other way around.

LOL

That was meant to be an example of something not balanced. Let me fix that. ;)

[SillySil 295]

Don't punish bandits or KoS, just discourage them from doing it. The bandit skin is genius. If you're a hero, you can't be killed by low-caliber weapons, and you run faster. If you're a "bandit" you get shot on sight by everyone. This is a perfect balance!

The difference between getting shot on sight by 80% or 100% isn't something that would stop me from killing you, even if just in case. I already assume that everyone is not friendly. And I cover my ass at all times.

[shagohad 124]

Same boring bullshit "carebear" and "butthurt" responses

Please look at the Poll, it is not discussing PvP, its discussing KoS, a subheading of PvP if you will :)

and like I said before the issue now is more related to the lack of any sense of attachment to your charachter due to getting killed often by hackers and the massive saturation of high level gear on the coast

of course you should be able to kill on sight, its just more interesting as a game when its more a battle of strategy and wits. Back in the day the highest level geared charachters you would run into on the coast would either be clans coming in to raid or shit people got in firehouses. Everyone else was having fun up norrth. this meant that say some guys had an AKM and you had a winchester, through a well timed ambush you could kill them and head north with you sweet loot, maybe a map and compas and alice, and shit.

NOW, the situation is AS50 snipers kill everyone. Only trump to AS50 sniper is another AS50 sniper. Say I happen on the corpse of one such sniper and kill him. I now have all the loot in the game......

this can be done within a few minutes. Should I head north? whats the point, im going to get telported to the coast, its only a matter of time.. so now I will jsut kill people on the coast until I am killed.

What im trying to say I guess is that PvP used to be fairly interesting and balanced (this is not an argument about OP weapons or something, its jsut that the whole risk vs reward structure was completely different)

now it is kind of boring,

still i try not to kill survivors, why? because I find the interaction interesting, other shooters have other thrills, dayZ is about the players. Player attitudes are formed from global influences and define the game. PvP should never go, its just an attitude problem at the moment generated from other influences that has made the game less entertaining

[Gavalin 90]

How is DayZ not balanced? There are no classes, skills, leveling, everyone has the same skill set from spawn. I don't care to meet up with some random guy I see. How is that hard to understand an accept? NOT EVERYONE WANTS TO BE YOUR FRIEND AND HUG EACH OTHER. Do you even know what balance means in game terms? Something not balance would be, a bandit has 50k blood and survivors have 15k. :facepalm:

Man did you even read the post...the balance issue isn't -per player- all characters have the same choices yes. The balance issue is that 80% of them choose to kill you for moving. -That- isn't balance. You are missing the point yet again good sir.

Ideally you should have 50% banditry 50% heroes. Not 80% KoS 20% heroes? I know these numbers are not exactly right but its damn close.

[dannyboy (DayZ) 4]

i vote none of the above.

pvp can be avoided to a certain point, hop to unpopulated servers, avoid the big towns. I really don't think if this was a real zombie apocolypse, you would avoid others, and not shoot on site, cause you would need people to keep some shred of humanity, build stuff, fix things, kill zombies, (and save bullets, after all, there are none being made anymore) etc. You wouldn't kill them cause you saw them.

the one and main issue with this game is the crazy amount of glitches and hacks. That is the only thing that ruins the game for me. Dying because your putting a wheel on a 4 wheeler, or you crouch next to your tent and break a leg. or a Zombie jumps through a wall and one touch at full life and you break a bone and bleed out.

Getting teleported out to debug plains, all the vehicles teleported to one location, shit like that makes this game/mod suck.

someone shoots me clean and i didn't see them or know about them, shame on me, and it makes me more and more aware of my surroundings.

I see another player without a gun, and they don't see me i go the other way, if they do see me and they have a gun, i move like crazy to put myself far away, or in a spot they can't get at me easy.

I usually type i don't want to fight, but if they move towards me its on like donkey kong