A Realistic Means of Facilitating Group Play

[dogsbd 12]

I believe there are 2 main types of DayZ players; hardcore players and casual players. Hardcore players devote a lot of time to the game, casual players not so much. The reasons for the differing levels of time spent in game are probably many, but one big reason that casual players spend less time in game is due to real world obligations. We (as I count myself as a casual player) have a limited amount of time that can be devoted to computer games. That doesn’t make us any less enthusiastic, just limited by circumstances.

One difference that is manifested in the different playing styles of hardcore vs. casual players is that casual players will almost exclusively play DayZ solo. Hardcore players are much more likely to know others they can team up with or have the time to arrange to meet with others at a certain time and on a certain server. Casual players jump into game when and where they can, if they find someone they can group with it is usually a matter of luck.

My personal experience is that I have never played DayZ without seeing numerous chat conversations about when, where and how to join up with someone else. Given the size of the map, the differing spawn points and lack of a map it is very difficult for a casual player, who may only have an hour or 2 to play before returning to real life, to locate and join with others. And after spending considerable time and effort to cross half the map to join someone the odds are that they have at least a 50% chance of being shot immediately upon finding the person or group they were intending to join. Therefore I believe one of the most basic issues that could use attention in DayZ is something to help make creating groups of survivors easier for casual players.

What is needed is a way to easily replicate the groups that would form in real life in the event of a disaster like a “zombie apocalypse” but to do so with complete strangers that change from day to day and from server to server. In real life familiarity would come with being with one another 24/7 for weeks and months, in game there needs to be an artificial mechanism to help create this.

My proposal is that at some point during the login process a player would be offered the OPTION of logging in as a member of a group. I must emphasize that this would be purely OPTIONAL. One could still login as a non-affiliated player just as is done now.

The groups would be geographically organized, meaning that everyone who joins a certain group would spawn in that groups spawning area. The spawn areas should be an area in which players spawn not a single point. This will make covering a spawn for the purpose of killing new spawning players more difficult for those inclined to do such things.

Players spawning as a member of a group in a distinct spawn area would be able find one another much more easily. This is the main point. But the proposal could be taken further.

Other additional ideas (some may or may not be technically possible):

1 – All members of a group should have the same or similar clothing or some identifying piece of clothing such as a certain color cap, bandana, arm band etc. This would allow group members to identify one another and therefore lessen the perceived need to shoot on sight.

2 – All members of a group would have their own private chat channel. It should still be limited in range (unless radios are implemented as loot then group chat range could be much further).

3 – Members of a group could invite solo players to become members of that group in game. Likewise a group member could be kicked from the group by other members if the need arises.

4 – Judging from comments received on this idea before the hacking incident this next proposal is the most controversial: A group member who team kills another group member should automatically be kicked from the group, loose the identifying clothing as proposed in item 1 above and loose the private chat feature mentioned in item 2. This is not entirely realistic but it is, IMO, necessary given that the familiarity that a real life group would have with one another would not exists in these ad hoc groups in game that would constantly change in composition.

5 – Further along the lines of item 4, a team killer would be announced via chat to the other members of his/her group. This too is a somewhat unrealistic compromise to compensate for game limitations stated in #4 above.

Of course the spawn area concept would only affect those who are newly spawning, IE after a death etc. Those who have a continuing character would have to consider the risks/rewards of traveling too far away from the original spawn area as to do so could result in their being widely separated from other group members on a subsequent log in. But they would still have the aid of the identifying clothing mention in point 1 above to help them to determine if other players they meet are members of their group and therefore potentially (but not assuredly) friendly.

Please discuss rationally.

[hoik 415]

Well thought out idea and an excelent way for any players to quickly form groups with strangers. I like it a lot. This will be tempting for greifers though :( .

+1 for making it optional.

[Sabata (DayZ) 1]

Some griefers would pay actual money for a feature like this. For the rest sounds fine. It's a tricky matter as most things in this mod.

[duddbudda 33]

dogs, you did this already

to anyone else who sees this as the WoWification of DayZ

don't waste time trying to explain to dogsbd why his is a game-destroying idea; he'll never accept that strangers are a vital part of DayZ's atmosphere and challenge

[dogsbd 12]

dogs' date=' you did this already[/quote']

Yes, and it was deleted by the hacking of the forum.

to anyone else who sees this as the WoWification of DayZ

don't waste time trying to explain to dogsbd why his is a game-destroying idea; he'll never accept that strangers are a vital part of DayZ's atmosphere and challenge

If you want to prove that you are welcome to try to do so.

But if you do as you did on my previous post, and just make false accusations based on wild fantasies of your own imagination rather than what I have written, I will call you out on it just like I did on the old/vanished thread.

As in your calling this a "WoWification" and "a game-destroying idea"; would you care to explain how that can possibly be given that this is, as I clearly stated and you obviously have ignored again, purely OPTIONAL method that each player could choose to use or ignore?

Save yourself further embarrassment and stop making easily disproven accusations now.

[deepfried 95]

No, its pointless trying to make DayZ into something its not. it is inherently a "hardcore" survival simulator... any concessions to casual gaming will destroy 90% of its allure.

Nice idea but just not for DayZ.

[duddbudda 33]

I tried every single angle to explain why the questions raised by strangers in DayZ are vital to the experience

you tried to pretend that a magical power to make bestest friends with anyone anytime wouldn't affect that at all

and now you call me deluded

[Dinnj 4]

Absolutely not. Never post this again. Never shamelessly plug your poison idea into other threads. It's shit like this that would ruin this mod.

[dogsbd 12]

you tried to pretend that a magical power to make bestest friends with anyone anytime wouldn't affect that at all

There is nothing "magical powers" about this at all. It simply allows people to do what they are already trying to do' date=' join with other players to form groups.

and now you call me deluded

Yes.

---

Absolutely not. Never post this again.

Excuse me?

Who are you to tell me what to post?

[Strongarm Steve 1]

I think the personal chat, armbands, etc are all unnecessary and will just end up in a lot of betrayals.

I do like the idea of being able to select group spawns, however. In real-life it'd be quite likely that a band of survivors would end up crashing in close proximity to each other. Maybe they crashed from the same ship? The same boat capsized?

It'd be nice if a group mechanic was created that allowed players to create their own groups. After this, one could allow to SPAWN as a group.

[haviv[3rdid] 57]

"1 – All members of a group should have the same or similar clothing or some identifying piece of clothing such as a certain color cap, bandana, arm band etc. This would allow group members to identify one another and therefore lessen the perceived need to shoot on sight."

I agree but only if they WANT to. Even still, no guarantee one member won't become a traitor or double agent.

This would be useful for people who want to be known as 'sheriffs' or even rival bandit gangs. But there should always be the ability for members of a group to look like everyone else.

[hoik 415]

I think those up in arms are missing the major point: this is optional - prefer to create your own random encounters as you play? You can, but it takes time. Time pore? have the game generate random encounters for you when you spawn. This may make the initial encounter with other people less tence - but you will still be interacting with absolute strangers.

Stomping on the neck of choice is not cool.

[dogsbd 12]

I do like the idea of being able to select group spawns' date=' however. In real-life it'd be quite likely that a band of survivors would end up crashing in close proximity to each other.[/quote']

Exactly.

Current situation is very unrealistic. Every time you log on there is a different group of people, you rarely know anyone at all. It is as if you're in this survival situation and every time you wake up there is a totally different group of people around you. Realistically you would expect some people to stick together and form groups for mutual support.

I think the personal chat' date=' armbands, etc are all unnecessary and will just end up in a lot of betrayals.[/quote']

No doubt there would be betrayals, this isn't supposed to stop that. It is supposed to add a somewhat real world consequence for a betrayal. Loosing your identity as part of the group you betrayed represents that, and then makes you a target. IE if all your group wears red armbands when one of them looses his red armband due to a betrayal he has to leave the group, run, hide etc or be found out and possibly killed for his "crime".

It'd be nice if a group mechanic was created that allowed players to create their own groups. After this' date=' one could allow to SPAWN as a group.

[/quote']

Creating your own group, not a bad idea. Spawning as a group, interesting but I have no idea how it could be made work.

Thanks.

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"1 – All members of a group should have the same or similar clothing or some identifying piece of clothing such as a certain color cap' date=' bandana, arm band etc. This would allow group members to identify one another and therefore lessen the perceived need to shoot on sight."

I agree but only if they WANT to. Even still, no guarantee one member won't become a traitor or double agent.

This would be useful for people who want to be known as 'sheriffs' or even rival bandit gangs. But there should always be the ability for members of a group to look like everyone else.

[/quote']

Very interesting idea. And yes, everything I am proposing is strictly voluntary. That's what makes the accusations of ruining the game so ridiculous.

So you join a group, wear the "red armband" (or cap, scarf, whatever) when you are with that group. But when you are away from the group for whatever reason you can remove your "red armband" (you still posses it, you just hide it) so as to appear to be solo/unaffiliated. Then you could even potentially obtain a "yellow armband" from a different group by convincing them to invite you into their group.

That opens up a very interesting dynamic. What if you could have 2 arm bands from 2 rival groups? You could be a "double agent" of sorts. You risk being caught doing this by either or both groups you "belong" to!

Very good idea, thank you!

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I think those up in arms are missing the major point: this is optional - prefer to create your own random encounters as you play? You can' date=' but it takes time. Time pore? have the game generate random encounters for you when you spawn. This may make the initial encounter with other people less tence - but you will still be interacting with absolute strangers.

Stomping on the neck of choice is not cool.

[/quote']

Well said!

[TrajanP 0]

Dislike.

I'm a casual gamer... but its not excuse to completely change the mechanics of a game. This would just dumb the game down.

[Dyre 0]

My status, for some perspective: Somewhere between hardcore and casual gamer. Generally NOT someone that wants to group up all the time in ANY game. I generally avoid MMOs/multiplayer games that require grouping in an obnoxious way.

I like the idea of being able to form groups. I saw somewhere that Rocket wanted to add in groups with arm bands and the like in the future, as well.

I like possible radios being able to be scavenged (being able to set a particular frequency and talking through them over distances to others on that frequency/group members).

I like the idea of spawning together in the sense that you are spawned near other people, emulating what Strongarm Steve mentioned. However, even if it's only an option, I don't think automatic groups should be formed because you picked spawning in "Red Group's spawn area". I think it should be an option to group-up of your own accord once you discover there are three other people around you, after you talk it out.

Currently, I really don't like how my new lives never seem to start with anyone around (except bean killers). I don't like how I barely have a chance of spawning anywhere near the real-life friends I'm trying to play with. I feel like if myself and 5 of my friends are all respawning, "realistically" 2-3 of them should end up spawning in the same area that I spawn. I don't particularly enjoy running ~225km across the country to meet up with a buddy because he spawned on the opposite side of the country. Basically, I find it way too difficult to play with people you want to play with. Because this IS a game I believe it should be easier to do so.

I also want to add that if spawn areas are changed and/or it's more likely to spawn near other people, Rocket's(?) idea of not having a starting weapon should be implemented. While it's nice to look at things idealistically or real-life realistically, this is a game. Considering how way too many people seem to be going along the coast and killing newly spawned players for whatever reason, I can only see that problem being worse when you're likely to spawn around others. There would be quick gunfights just after spawn to get the other player's beans, ammo or whatever else.

I don't agree with TrajanP that it would dumb down the game (or that other guy talking about WoWification). I'm not sure I'd say it'd completely change the game mechanics either. It would change them, but the whole idea of this thread was to change them and promote group play--something a large part of the community is trying to figure out how to do.

[earion 3]

I believe there are 2 main types of DayZ players; hardcore players and casual players. Hardcore players devote a lot of time to the game' date=' casual players not so much. The reasons for the differing levels of time spent in game are probably many, but one big reason that casual players spend less time in game is due to real world obligations. We (as I count myself as a casual player) have a limited amount of time that can be devoted to computer games. That doesn’t make us any less enthusiastic, just limited by circumstances.

[/quote']

I think you got it almost, if not totally right. Being only a "part time hardcore player", I can totally understand the desire for a quicker/smoother good game XP for casuals.

But... Don't allow that kind of stuff on my hardcore servers plz :) really, it's really something you'd want to disable along the 3rd person/crosshair/nametag stuff.

Regarding armbands, not sure it's feasable technically, but even on hardcore servers, choosing your clothes and putting on armbands would be a more than welcome addition.

EDIT: also, reading point 1. again, as a semi hardcore player being part of a groupclanteamguildyounameit, I think that similar clothing is quite bad, as when you are in a group, you need to know who is who, and different clothing are the key to recognize the different members. "Common Distinctive Marks" (caps, armbands, etc) would thus serve the mechanic proposal better than "Similar Clothing" IMHO

[adamtheheretic 106]

I like some of these ideas, I'm more of a casual gamer (in relation to day z) myself but I still ended up in a group, it's a small one and currently only me and one other player are together moving towards the larger group but I prefer that.

I think the idea is good to spawn certain people in groups around random cities or beaches but not for it to be an option of what group, but in more of a random selection by the game for you to start near another (group of) random player(s). That way you're more likely to run in to others while you still have nothing and form a group that way.

I think having a choice of where to spawn or what people to spawn near is a game breaking idea, some points for this could be:

1) Second-accounts or friends of well-armed players could divulge information on groups systematically, allowing them to completely destroy groups while they're still in the initial scavenging stage.

2) Casual player groups would be more able but the hardcore player groups would dominate and it would force those alone to play realism servers to have less chance of being found or to join a group.

3) This is more about the aesthetic, I understand your point from a gameplay perspective however in zombie movies, games or books when do you hear of a group selecting clothing for them all to match and be recognizable (even to those outside of the group?)

Someone else made the point of being distinguished in the group is also important. I know the mod is still in very early development but I think a more widespread selection of skins should be available, you should choose maybe your gender, age, race and then have a skin assigned to you with items of clothing being changeable if you can find them in the world (maybe add some sort of wet-characters are slower, dirty characters are less traceable if they're in foliage but more noticeable in cities?)

I'm not going to lie, that was a slight tangent and a different idea in itself. Overall I contest this idea for the most part but support some of your features.

[Dyre 0]

After FishIsTwonk's post, I want to clarify that I think you shouldn't be able to choose where you spawn either. Just the idea of it being more likely to spawn near others.

[Bear ( The Irish ) 0]

if your a casual gamer like me if you want to roll in a group

Join a clan There are plenty out there

Im trying to get in to a couple clans now

ex FoxFall

now when you join a clan they aren't just going to say oh yeah come join us you have to earn there trust

even if this feature was implemented whats stopping someone from joining a group and gunning every one down looting and hoping to the next group (Greifing) while i can see the validity of your point if you want a group in dayZ even if you are a casual player your going to have to build trust with a group of people maybe even outside the game itself

[osiriszoran 33]

Stop trying to WoW the game up.

Sounds like you want to give Dayz a random PvP group / raid instance group querer. LOL

Strangers is part of the fear and mystique of the game. That is how you're trying to destroy it. By robbing that feature from the game.

You should be feeling wary and cautious when meeting people in the game. Not have an instant group formed for you.

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Stop trying to WoW the game up.

Sounds like you want to give Dayz a random PvP group / raid instance group querer. LOL

Strangers is part of the fear and mystique of the game. That is how you're trying to destroy it. By robbing that feature from the game.

You should be feeling wary and cautious when meeting people in the game. Not have an instant group formed for you.

seriously people man up and use direct comms. Announce your presence before entering high loot areas. Stop being cowards and lazy loot whores trying to take easy ways out.

Seriously, I've met and grouped with more random people than i have had shoot me in the face first. As long as you play cautious, dont startle people, and are walking around cherno/electro carrying a high tier weapon you wont get shot in the face.

[Neog2 (DayZ) 0]

It's simple but double the work you just have two types of servers just like in any game were your roaming around. In other games you have PVP, and PVE. In this game you would have the servers the way they are now, and grouping friendly servers.

From what I have seen in my limited play. People that are totally against making finding groups easier already have a group of people they play with. Me I have always been a solo player in games of the survival type. But in this game its not really realistic to try and solo especially when your first starting off and the infected are all around the areas where weapons may be.

I have been playing PC Games since The Original Castle Wolfenstein in the 80's. I have played all most every MMO, and I understand this MOD is something fresh and new. But like the OP said having the choice to choose would not ruin the game. I agree with him but with one change. I dont think the choice should be in game, but rather a feature of the server. So you join which server type you like that way nobody is crying.

The idea simply put is to survive people should have the choice to survive the way they wish. There isnt an end game, there arent say levels to max out to, sure there is better gear to be had, but not gear sets. So there is nothing to do but survive.

I just need Machete's and or Swords havent seen any of those in game yet, they may be some but for me thats all I need. I'm not the COD, BF, GR SOLDIER, I'm The Joe Musashi, Shinobi (Alot of the young kids wont know who Joe Musashi is but he was the Main Player in the 80's arcade game Shinobi)Type of Player. Guns or to easy and to loud. Knives, daggers, machete's, grappling hooks, ropes are the way for me to play.

What breaks games is not having enough time and man power to develop games.

In order to get enough man power, and time to develop eventually you need money.

In order to get enough money your alpha has to appeal to a big enough group of people

to fund the project.

Hardcore gamers are awesome but honestly they are only a small fraction of the people a game could get.

Ultimately having choices is what allows more people to play which leads to more money.

[diepepsi@gmail.com 22]

I have to agree, this isnt a good idea because half the game is hiding and trucking to meet up with friends then keeping the group alive and together. Adding this is actually removing content from the game.

I fully support the ability to mark yourself for your group... But, that marking should be something other players can spectate... and replicate. Hmm, time for my first recommendation post I think.

[ODoyleRulez 195]

This is a touchy subject for sure. I am not sure if it has a place in this game, however I do think there is a way to make it work.

The only way the group should be able to spawn together or anywhere near each other is if they are ALL new characters. This would give the illusion of all were part of the same shipwreck or whatever it is, that leaves us all bare ass'd on the beach.

If a player is killed he or she can not respawn to the group but at a normal random location. This would stop any kind of manipulation of the group system for griefing purposes.

Additions to groups on the fly would work, because in real life you would look to increase your numbers, however, you must make direct contact with them first and not added from some menu system.

I'm easily a hardcore player, I've played within a day or so of it going public. Play it a lot and for the most part solo. I don't see how it would step on my toes or screw up my play style in the slightest if these steps are taken. Why should I care if a couple guys spawn as new characters together on the beach? I'll still be out in the world surviving myself. Hell, it may even make things more interesting. Rival groups popping up and killing each other on servers. Territories forming and all that. I actually see a lot of meta game popping up with this. It would work well with some of his future features he has discussed. Like owning towns and such.

It may even lessen up the instant KOS problem hampering the game. Too many of you clowns think the game is strictly a deathmatch game or something. Or are entirely too protective of that makarov you found.. lol. Why I barely even even go to major towns anymore, too many trigger happy newbs. Also why the older players are wary of even bothering to help any newer players. Why go try and help them, then get killed once they get a gun the first time. Then see their name pop up for getting killed 10 minutes later and losing all the gear they stole?

Ok enough rant about that.. I don't see this being a bad thing for the game. Just ignore the couple whiners in this thread, crying about how it would be the end of the world. There is nothing wrong with new groups of new characters spawning together. If you want to que up and wait a few minutes for that, then good on you. If you don't want to group up then be a forever alone player. Deal with it.

[jetao2008@hotmail.com 175]

I support this:

1 - If you kill a survivor, you get lower humanity (no need to change skins or to become a bandit)

2 - The lower your humanity, the longer you will have to wait to respawn if you die

3 - profit (less people shooting on sight for "fun")

[LackofCertainty 2]

I feel like this idea would be a decent amount of work and that it is missing the core point as far as "fixing" the solo experience.

To me this sounds like a big idea that's main purpose is to fix bandits. (because you said that one of the big issues for casuals is that they're time limited and often get killed when they do try to meet up)

The problem is that you shouldn't try to fix bandits by making artificial systems to discourage it. Instead the way to discourage banditry is to give more incentives to grouping. If you add in enough group focused mechanics (like the blood pack) and remove single player alternatives (like cooked meat) you eventually make it to where the benefits of grouping with strangers outweigh the risks.

I would rather Rocket spend his time making new systems that reward people for grouping, instead of implement this strange system to spawn groups of people together and shame them if they PK.

However! I am not 100% against this idea, just this particular implementation of this idea. I do think the armbands and such could be a good idea, not for newly spawned people, but for existing characters. One of the issues DayZ has, when playing with a group, is that the majority of a person's clothes are randomly generated. Aside from weapon and minor facial customizations, it can be really hard to differentiate you buddy from random axe murder #5 who just rounded the corner.

The armband idea might work, in that you could have everyone in your group wear a tan armband (that would hopefully go ontop of your clothes/camo/gillie) so that you could easily differentiate friends from strangers.

P.S.

Rocket has said that he will never turn off pvp and he will never make a pve only server. He has said that pvp is one of the core mechanics of the game and turning it off would remove a lot of what is special about the game. It's not happening.