This is a SIMULATION, not a GAME.

[ptk (DayZ) 178]

This whole thread will be corrupted by the people who can't handle giving up their precious third person view. Any discussion about realism or simulation goes out the window because they get their jimmies rustled every time someone suggests removing 3rd person view. They'll complain about field of view, situational awareness, and anything else that will make it look like they actually care about hardcore realism, when in actuality they're just doing anything in their power to protect their way of playing DayZ. I wish they'd just admit it was unrealistic, but they prefer it that way, rather than trying to win these arguments and save face. /rant

I started a thread a while back about helping people use first person better, it led to a lot of 3rd person discussion. If anyone wants to check it out... http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/74438-people-who-play-3rd-person/

how can you corrupt a thread with a poll on whether its a game or simulation. just because people disagree with your ideas for the game doesn't make them any less valid, nor does it equate to having to win some forum battle.

again, as its been brought up numerous times in numerous threads that there are plenty of servers that accommodate both first and third person views. why continue to force-feed your bullshit when you have the option to play first person only already...

just to make others have to play dayz like you want them too??? its a sandbox brah... don't tell me how to enjoy my game.

[Zombie Jesus 723]

This is meant to be ultra-realistic. You shouldn't get third person because you can't have a camera behind you in real life. I do however think that you should get a wider FOV in first person. There aren't going to be any perks, there aren't going to be any "safe zones," there aren't going to be any "currencies." It's a fucking total collapse of all social order and structuring. When a social collapse happens, you think shit is gonna pull itself together? Yea, eventually. But this is set when the zombies are still roaming and there hasn't been time for a monetary system or safe-zones. Sure, if a group of players set up a no-fire zone around Berezino, good for them, that's fucking amazing actually. But they shouldn't implement a no-fire spawn zone, because imagine you wake up on a beach with nothing, and some psychotic human killer runs up with a hatchet. You don't get spawn protection because in the REAL world, you wouldn't get wake-up protection. You don't get special perks for playing a different way because in the REAL world you would still be able to run the same speed and get hit by bullets exactly the same as everyone else. Jesus people, this is a SIMULATION, not a GAME. You play for hardcore realism or you go get WarZ.

EDIT: Sorry for bad grammar, it's late.

EDIT2: Inb4 YOU DON'T HAS TO PLAY WITH 3rd person!!!11! I know that. I'm saying that this is a simulation and is meant to be a hyper-realistic event. Therefore, 3rd person should be removed as it is not something possible in real life.

Well in real life when you die can you just spawn on the coast and have another go at the game (oh yea it is a fucking game asshat).

First person lacks spatial awareness, so while in real life we do not have a camera hovering behind our back our other senses give us a great idea of spatial awareness which a video game can not match do to it relying on only two senses sight and sound (and sound sucks in this game, try to echo locate something in dayz I dare you).

Here is the deal, no one gives a shit that you think this is the only way to play. It is popular for a reason, but warz looks like it will be first person only so maybe that game is more your style.

Edit: this one is for bad mojo, neither is hyper realistic because IT IS A FUCKING GAME.

Edited September 15, 2012 by Zombie Jesus

[dallas 5195]

ArmA isn't a first person shooter.

So ArmA isn't restricted to first person perspective.

3rd person view and command view has been an important feature of ArmA, since ArmA was called Operation Flashpoint. So OP if you don't agree with core mechanics, maybe you're playing the wrong game. As I already said, whether you want to call it a extremem hypersimulation to the max or a game, whatever it is, it's more than fist person running and gunning. ArmA is also a RTS in CTI, ArmA allows you to control a small fire team, squads, mechanized infantry or entire armies.

ArmA is maybe a sim, not it's not exclusively a POV solder sim, it can be, but it can also simulate the entire battlefield, where you need more than 1st person view to command your vast army from infantery, to armor and artillery.

So..

Edited September 15, 2012 by Dallas

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

how can you corrupt a thread with a poll on whether its a game or simulation. just because people disagree with your ideas for the game doesn't make them any less valid, nor does it equate to having to win some forum battle.

again, as its been brought up numerous times in numerous threads that there are plenty of servers that accommodate both first and third person views. why continue to force-feed your bullshit when you have the option to play first person only already...

just to make others have to play dayz like you want them too??? its a sandbox brah... don't tell me how to enjoy my game.

You make my point beautifully. You think because there are servers that offer first person only, there should be no discussion about the unrealistic nature of the third person view.

Play it how you want... brah. I just want to see the game changed to reflect what I(and others) believe is realism.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

ArmA isn't a first person shooter.

So ArmA isn't restricted to first person perspective.

3rd person view and command view has been an important feature of ArmA, since ArmA was called Operation Flashpoint. So OP if you don't agree with core mechanics, maybe you're playing the wrong game. As I already said, whether you want to call it a extremem hypersimulation to the max or a game, whatever it is, it's more than fist person running and gunning. ArmA is also a RTS in CTI, ArmA allows you to control a small fire team, squads, mechanized infantry or entire armies.

ArmA is maybe a sim, not it's not exclusively a POV solder sim, it can be, but it can also simulate the entire battlefield, where you need more than 1st person view to command your vast army from infantery, to armor and artillery.

So..

So...? This isn't Arma2, this is the DayZ mod.

Not to mention, other mods for Arma2 have removed third person view. So...

[Zombie Jesus 723]

You make my point beautifully. You think because there are servers that offer first person only, there should be no discussion about the unrealistic nature of the third person view.

Play it how you want... brah. I just want to see the game changed to reflect what I(and others) believe is realism.

No brah, you want to force your stupid minority viewpoint on everyone else and disguise your smug sense of entitlement with pretentious rants about realism.

[Just a Goat 25]

DayZ is not ultra-realistic, though it is as realistic as Rocket can easily manage.

There are a lot of contrived nonsense things about even Arma II (personal pet peeve - not being able to shoot supersonic ammo through the suppressed weapons. That's retarded.)

And DayZ very much is a game. Being a simulation does not mean it isn't a game. If there is a way to determine winners and losers and people are competing, then it's a game.

3rd person is not worth getting butthurt over, even for realism freaks (and I am one).

[ptk (DayZ) 178]

You make my point beautifully. You think because there are servers that offer first person only, there should be no discussion about the unrealistic nature of the third person view.

Play it how you want... brah. I just want to see the game changed to reflect what I(and others) believe is realism.

I see you miss the point rather often so I'll ask again, how the FUCK DO YOU CORRUPT A THREAD WITH A POLL IN IT THAT ASKS YOU TO CHOOSE WHAT YOU PREFER???" by making a choice that clearly you don't favor???

see how this makes you look stupid...

[major.skrewup@gmail.com 177]

This is meant to be ultra-realistic. You shouldn't get third person because you can't have a camera behind you in real life. I do however think that you should get a wider FOV in first person. There aren't going to be any perks, there aren't going to be any "safe zones," there aren't going to be any "currencies." It's a fucking total collapse of all social order and structuring. When a social collapse happens, you think shit is gonna pull itself together? Yea, eventually. But this is set when the zombies are still roaming and there hasn't been time for a monetary system or safe-zones. Sure, if a group of players set up a no-fire zone around Berezino, good for them, that's fucking amazing actually. But they shouldn't implement a no-fire spawn zone, because imagine you wake up on a beach with nothing, and some psychotic human killer runs up with a hatchet. You don't get spawn protection because in the REAL world, you wouldn't get wake-up protection. You don't get special perks for playing a different way because in the REAL world you would still be able to run the same speed and get hit by bullets exactly the same as everyone else. Jesus people, this is a SIMULATION, not a GAME. You play for hardcore realism or you go get WarZ.

EDIT: Sorry for bad grammar, it's late.

EDIT2: Inb4 YOU DON'T HAS TO PLAY WITH 3rd person!!!11! I know that. I'm saying that this is a simulation and is meant to be a hyper-realistic event. Therefore, 3rd person should be removed as it is not something possible in real life.

dayz should be ultra realistic, I mean sure there's zombies, sure your average joe citizen can repair a military helicopter with scrap lying around, sure he can pick up military weapons with thermal/nv scopes and have the scopes never run out of power, its realistic your born on the coast after your previous life is over, why not reincarnate as a light pole in your next life?

barter system should be just that, barter system.... you give me your sister for my as50 or your herion for 20 .308 rounds money is useless the only thing I would trade my shit for is other shit I need, currency should be the gear u have (so I partially agree with you there)

safe zones are easy, the dayz zombies seem partially territorial they don't go out fucking shit up, they chill around there areas of infection till u come up in there, whether this territoriality attribute is cos they have no reason to leave population centers until prey happens along and they charge because now they have no reason to stay put (food is u not there) or because the basic instincts they have been reduced to tell them safety in numbers, this isnt being discussed but a safe zone outside of the cities is easily and feasible concept (inner citiy ones would suffer the cycle of shooting in defense/attracting more zombies/shooting/attracting more etc etc etc

as for perks, everybody is unique, some dude that escaped from his mechanic shop would handle and be useful differently then the doctor who made it out of the city I think a simple system like fallouts SPECIAL could be used (just the special not the perks/leveling of different skills) at the character create screen u assign x number of points to your base attributes and that's it, u dont gain/lose any (unless u hit the crack pipe and dont feel the effects of pain thus giving a boost to that area until u start to come down)

with attributes like

stealth (explanatory)

handyman (how good are u with your hands and a toolkit)

nerve (do you lose your shit and suffer from an unsteady hand when zombies are close)

etc etc, bonus' that help with ur scavenging and zombie problem but keeps people on equal footing for pvp (so no soldier character starting with a weapon around unarmed people for instance)

as for 3rd person, I like it, not for the advantage it brings but cos I like seeing my player, cos hes a badass. if I was after an advantage I would turn down terrain and everything like that so there isnt any grass etc.

dayz isnt a simulator, arma 2 may be but if u wanted a zombie simulator dayz isnt it, if this was a hardcore sim u wouldnt have made it out of the city, u see all those dead army guys? they where better equipped, better trained more informed then you and guess how many are alive? none...... the zombies even brought down airborn choppers full of soldiers/pilots....

this is dayz

this is your story

and you died before you even made it to your car

respawn? yes/no

this is dayz

this is your story

some chump mounted the footpath you where on in his suv when he swerved to miss the panicked guy who drifted into his lane cos he was on his phone to his family

respawn? yes/no

this is dayz

this is your story

you didnt die from the infection u died from a heart attack cos your fatass couldnt put down the twinkies

respawn yes/no

this is dayz

this stopped being a hardcore simulator, when zombies appeared get over yourself and stop winging about simulator vs game and instead discuss a balance between game and simulator like qualities

my grammer and spelling might be off cos its 5:20am and I have no socks on, vus cold feet vus up yours.

Edited September 15, 2012 by Skrewy

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

I see you miss the point rather often so I'll ask again, how the FUCK DO YOU CORRUPT A THREAD WITH A POLL IN IT THAT ASKS YOU TO CHOOSE WHAT YOU PREFER???" by making a choice that clearly you don't favor???

see how this makes you look stupid...

I see you miss the point of having poll threads on forums. It's not to look at some numbers and decide which is the superior choice. The point is to have a discussion about the question that the poll asks. The side of the debate with less votes doesn't automatically get dismissed because it has less votes. This is a poll, not a referendum.

I said people will corrupt this thread(discussion) with their justifications. Rather than address the actual debate about 3rd person being unrealistic, people resort to things like saying "IT'S JUST A GAME" and "you have your option to play 3rd person only servers". My whole point is that people justify having 3rd person view, so doesn't that mean we can mostly agree it's unrealistic?

Should DayZ be what people want? or should DayZ be what people need? I mean, I personally hate 3rd person view being in a game like DayZ. But, I still use the fuck out of the feature. What I need is a game that doesn't allow me to exploit the fact that it's a video game.

You guys take these debates too personal. I'm not trying to enforce my way of playing on anyone, I'm trying to give my opinion of how the game should be changed. I'll suggest shit for DayZ to become more "hardcore ultra-realistic", even if it goes against the way I currently play.

[Forgewolf 70]

This is meant to be ultra-realistic. You shouldn't get third person because you can't have a camera behind you in real life. I do however think that you should get a wider FOV in first person. There aren't going to be any perks, there aren't going to be any "safe zones," there aren't going to be any "currencies." It's a fucking total collapse of all social order and structuring. When a social collapse happens, you think shit is gonna pull itself together? Yea, eventually. But this is set when the zombies are still roaming and there hasn't been time for a monetary system or safe-zones. Sure, if a group of players set up a no-fire zone around Berezino, good for them, that's fucking amazing actually. But they shouldn't implement a no-fire spawn zone, because imagine you wake up on a beach with nothing, and some psychotic human killer runs up with a hatchet. You don't get spawn protection because in the REAL world, you wouldn't get wake-up protection. You don't get special perks for playing a different way because in the REAL world you would still be able to run the same speed and get hit by bullets exactly the same as everyone else. Jesus people, this is a SIMULATION, not a GAME. You play for hardcore realism or you go get WarZ.

EDIT: Sorry for bad grammar, it's late.

EDIT2: Inb4 YOU DON'T HAS TO PLAY WITH 3rd person!!!11! I know that. I'm saying that this is a simulation and is meant to be a hyper-realistic event. Therefore, 3rd person should be removed as it is not something possible in real life.

There should be a safe zone or two. Which is actually realistic.. What is left of the military will try to set up a permanent defense Territory. They should have NPC Military Units standing by to take out any know bandit players or anyone who shoots their gun in the safe zone and ends up hitting someone. There would be no loot in this area as the military prescence would obviously have control of it.. But it would be an area to safely trade items.

[Lupin-III 44]

I didn't read your giant red font. So I'll just reply with what I think you said.

The tastiest water comes from the pond behind the factory, southeast of Polana. I think it has something to do with the chemicals stored there. That and the dead sheep I saw floating in it one day. MMmmmm. Sheep water.

[Gavalin 90]

I already do. I'm saying that this is a HYPER REALISTIC SIMULATION. They should take out anything remotely unrealistic. Besides the Infected, they're sort of the game...

Ok so hyper realistic. What would you do with your family? How would you deal with being lonely? What about sleeping? Can't deal with the nightmares, you don't have them. Or the constant zombie moaning would cause all kinds of problems. There are so many things the simulation can not bring to the table (not currently)

I strongly support a more realistic simulation as well. However there is almost no way to add the morality that you'd go through in real life. The perks you speak of are ... nil at best.

And considering morality has very little impact on -most- the players playing it turns them into KoS people.

Adding perks to (Not punishing anyone) just adding something to, or for, playing the -uncommon- play style will help the game's KoS issue.

Edited September 16, 2012 by Gavalin

[jetao2008@hotmail.com 175]

Therefore, 3rd person should be removed as it is not something possible in real life.

In real life...

- zombies don't exist. We need them out of the game

- we don't eat beans and drink coke every single day

- i don't find guns in supermarkets and restaurants

- we have to sleep, pee and poop

- etc.

Please, if you want EXTREME realism, join the army. Most people are here to play, the game can't and WON'T be 100% like real life, because that's not possible, and even if it was, who has the time.

Stop crying and go play on a server with 3rd person disabled, and leave the rest of the people alone.

I don't come here forcing you to use or not use a certain feature in the game, because i respect you, please, do the same.

Edited September 16, 2012 by Fenrig

[spankimus 71]

Dude, after reading all that... every other color I look at now looks out of whack.

[Gavalin 90]

barter system should be just that, barter system.... you give me your sister for my as50 or your herion for 20 .308 rounds money is useless the only thing I would trade my shit for is other shit I need, currency should be the gear u have (so I partially agree with you there)

Screwy you're one of my favoritest people evah!

This whole post was full of win! I just didn't want to copy it all :)

[audiophillia 1]

Yea. Lets be realistic. I want 3 months in game time till a bone is fully healed. and once you die that's it. Your computer MAC is blocked and you can't play anymore.

[kurnis 1]

I'm saying that this is a simulation and is meant to be a hyper-realistic event. Therefore, 3rd person should be removed as it is not something possible in real life.

real life huh? so you think people wake up in zombie-infested russia in real life?

in that case we should also all suck at aiming/reloading/cleaning weapons until we get more practice (unless we are all waking up as marines).

we should also have to take a piss/dump regularly, and our characters should have to sleep at least 6 hours per day or we collapse from exhaustion (my god that sounds FUN)

isnt realism FUN?

edit: dammid fenrig, i just read what you wrote after i posted.

guess you have my beans....

Edited September 16, 2012 by kurnis

[GoodGrief 21]

even tho i love to play in 3rd person i do find myself wondering a lot why am i tucked into this corner, or running along this fence all stealthy when some guy could be sitting on a roof out of sight, panning 360 in 3rd person, able to see me regardless..

i for example notice that you could stay in the middle of a 2nd floor house and 360 pan all the windows.. then only approach the window when seeing someone. this is so far from how it would be without 3DPON..i would have to stand up against the window, revealing myself to snipers

i vote get rid of it, even tho i would miss it dearly

[Cronic (DayZ) 35]

even tho i love to play in 3rd person i do find myself wondering a lot why am i tucked into this corner, or running along this fence all stealthy when some guy could be sitting on a roof out of sight, panning 360 in 3rd person, able to see me regardless..

i for example notice that you could stay in the middle of a 2nd floor house and 360 pan all the windows.. then only approach the window when seeing someone. this is so far from how it would be without 3DPON..i would have to stand up against the window, revealing myself to snipers

i vote get rid of it, even tho i would miss it dearly

You have a good point. But again you have veteran/expert servers if you want that. I understand that you may not want the rest of the realism but for now, that's all we've got. Anyway, I think you're worth saving my friend, have my beans.

[CM LEGION 29]

Lol its not a simulation if you hive wipe because you cant get geared/suck at getting vehicles. Its a hardcore game which is sadly intended for a casual farmville trash community.

If it was a simulation, your guy wouldn't run for 50m straight without getting tired. You wouldn't survive 8 m9/g17/revolver/m1911 rounds to the chest. and a revolver does damage. People wouldnt kill eachother in elektro anywhere near as often as in game. you wouldnt repair a vehicle by finding some random ass tubing and a tool box. supplies would be much more scarce. people (at least survivors) would be much smarter and just run into a city popping off gunfire. I can go on, but if you think this a simulation you are a fucking imbecile. Your an imbecile because you dont understand the concept of simulation or you dont get the concept of hardcore, get either one right.

[Puffy 64]

For all of you saying zombies aren't in real life: they're not zombies, they're infected people. They're still alive, they just have a virus of some sort. Realism.

[Puffy 64]

Also, based on many of your replies, you guys have convinced me that this was meant to be a simulation but instead wound up as a hardcore game. It SHOULD be as realistic as possible, but I guess there are some barriers you cannot cross with a game...

[skuggan 4]

ARMA2 is a combat simulator.

DayZ is a zombie killing sandbox.

Deal with it.

[Brandnew11980 26]

If it were truly and entirely realistic it would suck enormous dick. Nobody really wants to live in a scenario like this, I know I don't. Besides, it's a game, you can never be 100% real to life.