A new 'status' to encourage cooperation

[trav 11]

My lonewolf play is either due to 1) not being near my compatriots, or 2) not being on at the same time. I would say I have spent 95% of my /played alone over the past two weeks. This is not due to soloing is my playstyle, this is due to the fact that locations, timing, or general interest from friends not aligning. To punish me for that would be shitty.

The flipside of it would be "people who run in packs all the time, should have their loot start disappearing, and they should have to take meds to keep them from shooting their fellow survivors out of paranoia."

Both of those would be ridiculous... IMO of course.

I concur that the game needs a little more socialization going on in it... But I dont know that I agree rewards/punishment is the answer. The benefit of running lone wolf is that you odnt have to share your loot. A downside is that doing shit like putting a vehicle back together can be a very time consuming process.... Or when you get sniped, no one has your back.

Running in a pack the benefits (again IMO) far outweigh the cons. Sure, loot maybe shared, but most packs are going to split gear to who most needs it anyway. You are safer, can cover one another, give transfusions, etc.

The thing that is "broken" (but not very) is lines of communication. Things are fine for people on the same comms server... but in game comms blow. But you have said that will begin being addressed in 1.8 and onward. After the comms system gets a review, then maybe relook at the ideas regarding meds.

Also, stores should have a chance of spawning antibiotics.

[robosheriff 13]

Running in a pack the benefits (again IMO) far outweigh the cons. Sure' date=' loot maybe shared, but most packs are going to split gear to who most needs it anyway. You are safer, can cover one another, give transfusions, etc.

[/quote']

meh strenght comes in numbers, stealth goes with loners.

[Sakinoko 0]

I like the idea of a mental status, both to encourage cooperation and to discourage rampant killing sprees... I like the idea that every murder in cold blood should affect a person's mental stability (though the murder mechanics would have to be HEAVILY worked on before this would work) and that isolation should have a much lesser, but tangible effect.

The idea of someone muttering to themselves after long periods of isolation doesn't seem extremely disruptive (although it does seem realistic, even I've muttered to myself on a 40 hour solo car trip), and after very long periods of it a light dementia setting in (a la castaway) that would be subtle, yet still give a certain desire to control. This would not severely punish lone wolves, but would make it realistically necessary to find other ways of maintaining their sanity when isolated from others for so long other than just running around in the woods and occasional towns.

The idea that there are more than one means of dealing with this could also ease the tension of lone wolf players as they don't feel like it's find drugs or be crazy. Drugs could be the stronger solution that works for longer periods, but can have either a dependency mechanic or a side effect mechanic when taking too many or taking them for so long. The drugs could allow the player to go longer periods without any problems from the isolation, and could also bring them back from a much further deteriorated state of mental health. The other option could be less medicinal and more like tangible objects (photos of a happy place, luck rabbit foot, hell a teddy bear) that would lessen the effects of mental decline, but at a much reduced rate with no side effects like drugs.

There is also the argument that over time a person who holds on to their lucky rabbit foot or what have you will grow too attached to the object and suffer other mental trauma's associated with it (or its loss), but that is more for a psychology forum than a game forum.

[Snork (DayZ) 0]

I play as a lone-wolf myself mostly because I don't know anyone who play DayZ IRL and I'm not good at making new friends on the internet, but I think the idea is good, but It must be well developed, I suggest 2 factors that affect the mental well-being of a character, teaming and humanity both affecting you in different ways.

1. for example, being alone for long times decreases the speed of the trade of information with other players mentioned before, difficulty to rest because you feel unprotected, easier to panic and such.

2. If you have low humanity the effects are worse, being unable to exchange information with other players, unable to rest, and if there is a huge humanity drop in little time (if you go on a rampage, for example) you may have a mental breakdown, hearing the voices of the people you've killed.

( not resting well or not resting at all should decrease your physical performance)

[Strategos (DayZ) 190]

"Im not sure any of my statements negate what I am saying in any specific post. "

You don't seem to be sure about alot of things which perhaps is why you don't actually seem to have a coherent argument or a reasonable rebuttal to any of the points I've raised.

"People post about PVP. You think that adding a mechanic that encourages human interaction isn’t directed at limiting PVP? Come on, it doesn’t need to say PVP in the title for you to see the undercurrent of what is being suggested. "

No but we were discussing the merits of a specific mechanic just saying "it might help fix the pvp issue" doesn't counter any of the points I raised.

"All mechanics artificially push the player to do something or another. This is a game so you need something artificial to tell you what you need to do. I don’t have a red flashing food icon that blinks when I need to eat."

No but you have a feeling about it, everyone needs to eat, and they feel that that. The limitations of the game mean we need an indicator. Everyone bleeds when shot. The game tells because in real life we would just know through our nervous. This is obvious and universal. mental health is not a standard human drive. It varies from one extreme to the other in a pretty unpredictable way. You cant tell me I want to be around people, any more than you can tell me im going to develop acute paranoia or depression if im left alone.

No one can argue that all people need to eat , drink and bandage themselves, but we can certainly argue about our state of mind.

The game creates emotions in the player, you don't need to make the screen blurry to tell them they are scared and go and take some pills. That doesn't MAKE me scared or alone. Whats the point in making the game scary, making the game affect you emotionally, then slapping a number on it and telling me things that might be the complete opposite of what im actually feeling?

"I cant imagine that there is anyone who would say that grouping up isn’t a buff. Being in a group should have some negatives and so should playing alone. People already group up in this game but it generally happens between people that are already friends and who use some sort of 3rd party voip. Unless I am mistaken most of what is being discussed here is encouraging random players to meet and work together. That doesn’t mean that there aren’t consequences to walking around as a group."

Yes there advantages to working as a group and disadvantages, these are created by the mechanics of the game, this is what emergent game play is all about. Not saying "YOU GUYS HAVE TO STICK TOGETHER OR YOU'LL GO MAD!". its a heavy handed 2 dimensional, unrealistic solution to a complex problem.

Look at say, Vietnam you had guys that went catatonic, guys that weren't affected much, guys that handled it just fine but couldn't adjust to normal life afterwards?. People are much tougher than we can really appreciate in our western lives and can endure incredible hardships. You just have to look at african refugees to see that in action.

[combatcomm1 234]

With antideppressants comes side effects and withdrawal symptoms. This should be added as well. To take medication at all should be another mission in positive/vs negative.

[legrandmawak 3]

I'm very up to this suggestion. So far I've been a lone wolf. The single encounter I made was an instant death for me.

I really like to enjoy spend some time with fellawz. Maybe not an entire life but enough to help and being help with stuff, goods, and bloooooood. I'm quite sure i'm gonna die in my current game because of lack of knowledge in ressources and have not made friend players yet :(

[Boonshniggle 0]

+1 soloing in this game is far too frequent for the realism and experience that is intended. People are literally only grouping mainly with people that are in their guilds, friends, etc... not very often other strangers in the game. Great solution for the shoot on sight crap that is happening way too often atm. Unless players have people to play with that they know outside of DayZ it's far too difficult for them to experience anything other than lonewolf, when that might not be how they want to play at all.

People that are lonewolf should have it much harder, and they should be doing it because they feel they are more skilled and can handle a tougher challenge than other players in the game. Only the truely skilled and mastered of DayZ should be able to pull it off, like surviving 5-7 days solo to be so hard and rare that it is truely a godlike accomplishment in the game. I think this idea along with the anti-depressants is a brilliant idea and the best I have heard yet. I suggested the anxiety type meter thing before, but the antidepressants I think is really the missing key here for all play styles to still be supported.

I think the interaction with other players should not require much time to raise this meter at all tho and take a very long time to decrease. So that instead of shooting me on sight, a bandit might hold a gun to my face and we have an intense convo before he shoots me in my face, and that be enough for his meter to go up. Just force interaction, rather for good or bad, just make it semi-required in some fashion.

[Time Glitch 453]

good idea' date=' but it affects a lonewolfs gamestyle alot so [b']maybe adding some antidepressants is the key.

Woah, woah. You actually might be onto something here... could we get some feedback from lonewolf players?

I'm not wanting to make things easier or force playstyles, but adding some psychological tension would be awesome. Something related to being around people, that could be medicated if you want to lonewolf. Thoughts?

Yes please.

You'd have to make them fairly common (Anti-depressants ARE fairly common these days) for those of us who are hermits and not bandits. Make the screen desaturate a bit and maybe make us run a little slower (demoralized). To add to this, if you kill someone alone (banditry), maybe you have some more negative effects that go beyond what we just said.

[deepfried 95]

whats the downside of depression? i mean how would that manifest in the game? Do you shoot yourself if you get too depressed (that would be pretty cool actually). I'd like to see depression or mental state linked to your number of murders in some way.

However there is a problem with basing this on coop interaction: now that the global channel has been removed its very hard to find someone to coop with. even with global I only met up with two people for about 2-3 minutes each in 4 days of playing... without global its next to impossible unless you bring irl friends.

[Friend-or-Pho 0]

Long term isolation + high stress environments lead to a lot more than depression. Astronauts are a perfect example of the mental stresses that both isolation and a stressful workload can produce. There was the incident with Skylab, where the crew essentially mutanied against mission control's orders, and that was brought on by many of these factors. The psychological effects are far more than being sad, and predicting the way that someone reacts to those stressors takes hours of observation performed by a liscensed psychologist.

To properly implement a psychological simulation would take an incredible amount of work or risk being an over-simplification. Then it would still assume every player would react the same way. There is no way to know with certainty how an individual will react to such a situation (short of being placed in a trial experiment).

I think this sort of mechanic is best left to the space between chair and keyboard.

[Wired 1]

In my opinion, the people this would affect already have chosen a gameplay style which exhibits those psychological effects.

[DemonGroover 8836]

I really do think Day Z needs a stress counter, or the like. Upon first spawning Stress levels would be through the roof - it would cause panic, make it hard to shoot etc. As you shoot more Zeds and survive for longer you would get more and more desensitised to the situation.

Meeting and being around other survivors should decrease your stress levels - being alone for great lengths would definitely increase your levels of paranoia

Random indescriminate killing of other survivors would also have an adverse effect - after all how many psychos are all there in the head? Maybe you become such an ice cold killer that stimulants, food for blood regeneration etc have less and less of an effect. If you can stone cold kill someone for their beans will those beans really give you stimulation?

I do think how you play the game would have an impact on the characters pysche. Friendly, social people would be much healthier than lone wolves or rampant mass murderers. Humans by nature are social animals - we aren't biologically meant to be loners or kill our own kind. One man versus a lion is kitty food, ten men against a lion have a nice new rug.

Remember in times of great crisis the human race generally bands together, not seperate and pick each other off with sniper rifles at 300m.

[Ejaculacid 19]

good idea' date=' but it affects a lonewolfs gamestyle alot so [b']maybe adding some antidepressants is the key.

Woah, woah. You actually might be onto something here... could we get some feedback from lonewolf players?

I'm not wanting to make things easier or force playstyles, but adding some psychological tension would be awesome. Something related to being around people, that could be medicated if you want to lonewolf. Thoughts?

Erm... i personally wouldnt get depressed, anxiety or lonely being a lone wolf in real life. Having to rely on others i dont know is kinda depressing :P

I'd rather their be a point system which forces you to branch off into different things.

Medical, engineering, pilot, etc etc. Lets be honest here for a moment, if im a normal survivor i shouldnt be flying choppers there should me a pilot you meet up with who has the essential training to fly said chopper.

[DemonGroover 8836]

Ejaculacid - i dont think there is a man/woman alive (apart from Chuck Norris) who wouldnt be anxious or paranoid spending time alone in a world gone to shit - let alone a world of zombies and psycho killers on the loose.

I think the game needs a system to simulate the highly stressful situation and how people's emotions would be on tenderhooks.

I do agree though that a layman would not be able to repair let alone fly a Huey helicopter

[Ejaculacid 19]

Ejaculacid - i dont think there is a man/woman alive (apart from Chuck Norris) who wouldnt be anxious or paranoid spending time alone in a world gone to shit - let alone a world of zombies and psycho killers on the loose.

I think the game needs a system to simulate the highly stressful situation and how people's emotions would be on tenderhooks.

I do agree though that a layman would not be able to repair let alone fly a Huey helicopter

You'd be surprised of the resistance a man could take but then again ive seen alot of shit in my short 24 years so.. i guess im unique? :D

[DemonGroover 8836]

Well i would be shitting myself - no doubt about it!!

[Ejaculacid 19]

Well i would be shitting myself - no doubt about it!!

its ok, ill give you a hug before i steal ur beans ;)

[Vyse 0]

(Typing mad because my browser crashed midway through)

The best idea I have seen in this thread with regard to a depression mechanic is the introduction of more ambient noises. I have noticed whilst playing the game that the ambience (whilst predictable) is unsettling as is. Things like the random noise of something brushing against a chain link fence.

I like the idea of the character becoming more sensitive to sounds. Maybe a lone player should start hearing more sounds, making it harder to listen for themore important ones since you'll start second guessing what you hear. Its simple enough to resolve on your own, you turn your head and look. But if you're being forced to do this more as anxiety sets in, then there comes a balance between wanting to keep the 'emotions' within the player to deal with as they're conditioned to do, and introducing a mechanic that may reward players for seeking out strangers.

Symptoms of depression can include either increased or decreased appetite (usually the latter), insomnia, lethargy and loss of concentration. These are all things that can be represented through simple impairments like being slower to perform actions or slightly decreased accuracy. Don't want to deal with these? Team with somebody, or be forced to carry anti-depression medication.

Maybe your character's mood should be affected by a certain 'humanity score' as well. Anxiety caused by gunning people down might also make you more sensitive to the audio cues of the environment. People might be hunting for you.

Just my $00.02

[.:14A41:.Pvt.p4lztZ 3]

Lets be honest here for a moment' date=' if im a normal survivor i shouldnt be flying choppers there should be a pilot you meet up with who has the essential training to fly said chopper.

[/quote']

I like it. Not sure how that could work though. Just gain points to spend and add to a skill tree? Doesn't really do anything for me. I'd like it if you'd actually have to train it somehow though. Take actual lessons and learn it that way. Not quite sure how to implement it. Who would act as a trainer so on and so forth? /shrug

Maybe it's a bit too much? I like to think it's not though. Hehe.

[Ejaculacid 19]

Lets be honest here for a moment' date=' if im a normal survivor i shouldnt be flying choppers there should be a pilot you meet up with who has the essential training to fly said chopper.

[/quote']

I like it. Not sure how that could work though. Just gain points to spend and add to a skill tree? Doesn't really do anything for me. I'd like it if you'd actually have to train it somehow though. Take actual lessons and learn it that way. Not quite sure how to implement it. Who would act as a trainer so on and so forth? /shrug

Maybe it's a bit too much? I like to think it's not though. Hehe.

More you get say 5 points which you can spend across 10 things(random numbers) when you first login which sticks or choosing from random archetypes of say a civilian, paramedic, military soldier/pilot splintered off from their units being over run which have each have advantages/disadvantages.

Thats the wonder of this game, possibilities are literally endless, thinking about it i prefer the second option far more than the skill point spending.

[Budiak 1]

Why is it so acceptable to attack the lone wolf class and not the bandit/survivor class? If I am not mistaken, Rocket wants no discrimination of any play style. This is a deliberate attempt to place unfair burden on a valid style of play.

I'm a lone wolf player and this is another game breaking mechanic in my opinion. I've never teamed up with anybody and I've done just fine so far. Introducing this would force me to do something I really don't like doing, and would change the game into an awkward dinner party where I don't know anybody and it's quite possible that one of them will murder me.

If a system like this had to be introduced, let me propose this.

Every single person starts out with a stress meter at, say, medium. You stepped onto shore scared and alone. As you do certain things, like shoot zombies or survivors, it goes up. The more you do that thing, it goes down.

If you are alone, it goes up. After a while of being alone, it goes down. Then the more you shoot zombies and even other humans, it stays down. Here's the tricky part. If you are accustomed to being a lone wolf, and you are in close proximity to other living people, your anxiety meter skyrockets. It would make your playstyle have consequences, making it a serious decision to accept a blood transfusion from a stranger, make a trade, or team up on the fly to loot. Yes, this could even effect your ability to even be in the same room as somebody, even if you intend to kill them. Merely being around other people makes you nervous.

On the other hand, if your character is part of a group, killing zombies or other persons outside of the group would cause the meter to go down. Introducing new players to the group would cause it to rise slightly, then lower once again to simulate a level of trust and comfortability with that person. However, if you are separated from the group, your anxiety level would rise steadily the longer you are alone. If your buddy is killed and you find yourself alone, it skyrockets.

A lone wolf meeting somebody and a survivor losing somebody and becoming alone are both traumatizing events. You could, however, successfully make a transition to either style- over a long period of time.

If you avoid contact with zombies, shooting one would make it go up. Being around them would make it go up. If you constantly walk through town avoiding zombies, it would stay steady. If you never sneak, then trying it would make the anxiety level rise.

I think that this a much more viable and most importantly, flexible way of implementing an anxiety meter, which would not serve to punish any playstyle, but actually distinguish playstyles.

[Ejaculacid 19]

Why is it so acceptable to attack the lone wolf class and not the bandit/survivor class? If I am not mistaken' date=' Rocket wants no discrimination of any play style. This is a deliberate attempt to place unfair burden on a valid style of play.

I'm a lone wolf player and this is another game breaking mechanic in my opinion. I've never teamed up with anybody and I've done just fine so far. Introducing this would force me to do something I really don't like doing, and would change the game into an awkward dinner party where I don't know anybody and it's quite possible that one of them will murder me.

[/quote']

He said this could be countered by medication you pick up into the game, again forces you into hotspots and getting you killed

[Budiak 1]

I know he mentioned the medication, but there are plenty of things that require you go into hotspots. There are also plenty of ways to avoid hotspots in order to sustain yourself, such as deerstands, hunting, and ponds. Requiring certain players to go to a hospital or military installation to get medicine to treat an artificially imposed affliction is a truly unfair mechanic forced upon those who choose a certain method of survival.

Lone wolves are lone wolves because they want to be.

[Ejaculacid 19]

I know he mentioned the medication' date=' but there are plenty of things that require you go into hotspots. There are also plenty of ways to avoid hotspots in order to sustain yourself, such as deerstands, hunting, and ponds. Requiring certain players to go to a hospital or military installation to get medicine to treat an artificially imposed affliction is a truly unfair mechanic forced upon those who choose a certain method of survival.

Lone wolves are lone wolves because they want to be.

[/quote']

I agree :) I play in a two man squad sweeping the landscape like the 14th century black plague, this mechanic would force the hunters to become the hunter unable to manipulate the situation to their advantage, assuming it would be smart enough to stop 2-man teams. :D