Vilayer logic

[bodha 7]

Let me start this by saying that until the recent episode I had with vilayer I was generally very please with their service.

My problems as an admin arose when I found myself logging into my own server and almost immediately having someone teleport to me and kill me. Happens to me once, coincidence, 3 times over over a few days... not so much. On top of that recently I started having hackers enter my server very shortly b4 automated restarts and do mass kills. Shortly after other restarts and do mass vehicle teleports along with mass kills via teleporting ppl 100m+ up. I wanted to password to prevent this. Vilayer says no to passwords because it will infect the hive. Who cares if the hive is already "infected"? Who cares if the paying customers (admins) are fed up with public hive so had moved to the vilayer "private" hive to avoid it only to find out that vilayer has become the public hive v2.0.

Btw to vilayer. You tell me how I can ban someone who shows up in my .rpt file with a hacked set of gear when I cant find them in any of the BE .log files? Only reason I know the guy was hacking or involved in hacking is he logs into my server with hacked gear. He logged out of my server b4 I caught him so I didnt get his guid anywhere. Downright amazing, but hey... the hive isn't infected unless you let ppl have passworded servers.

They did say passwording will eventually happen, but not when, and were not willing to work with me so I can keep the server running. Instead Im supposed to pay them $$ for a service I cant use and they are not bothering to secure for me against pure griefing. I demanded a refund they eventually stated they would give me a prorated credit at most. Funny thing though the server advertisements state full ftp access which is NOT true. full server ftp access would not mean I can see files in the file manager but they are not visible when looking via ftp. Thats bait and switch. Now they do have an explanation for it I'm sure, but its still false advertising. Hope they have fun talking to my bank since they stopped talking to me.

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13/09/2012 00:52

William || Client

Hi,

I would very much like to password my server, but cant find how within the config files. Currently my server has become quite popular as you can see from gametracker.com, but I'm being swamped with hackers and griefers. I would very much like to close out the hackers via a password to the individuals who have moved onto the server and not hacked.

13/09/2012 00:55

Shawn || Staff

Hey William we do not currently allow people to password their servers as all DayZPackage servers are on the same Vilayer Hive and allowing this may compromise other servers. We are looking into adding this very soon though.

Best Regards,

Shawn (Support Technician)

Vilayer LTD | www.vilayer.com

13/09/2012 14:10

William || Client

So my private server which I pay for is unprotected from any and all hackers who are now coming through on a daily basis. In fact I'm spending about half my playtime now dealing with hackers and troublemakers via rcon rather than playing the game. What am I supposed to do ban everyone who comes onto the server who isn't supposed too? Right now I get an avg of 2-3 server disruptive hackers every 2 hours. I went to a private server to get away from them and yet you are telling me that I cant get away from them? Hell if I cant password the server I might as well go back to playing on the public hive! Oh and I dont care if my server is on the same hive as all the other vilayer hives so if having a completely separate hive is a quick solution I'll take it. But if you cant get me passworded option or at least prevent people from joining my server without my pre approving I will not be reupping this account. I didnt come here to continue serving as a punching bag for hackers and the log system simply doesnt stop it.

By the way you do realize that all that your no password stance is going to do is make your new popular servers be the next target for the extreme hacking problems that have been plaguing this game.

13/09/2012 15:02

Casey || Staff

Just ban everyone who joins while you are on. Passwording is coming soon.

Best Regards,

Casey (Support Technician)

Vilayer LTD | www.vilayer.com

13/09/2012 17:35

William || Client

I'm locking the server. Now I have hackers hopping in and teleporting everyone way up in the sky to kill everyone on the server. If you cant get this resolved today plz cancel my account and refund the money.

13/09/2012 17:44

William || Client

apparently you guys have a problem with locking the server and I cant unlock it since you turned it off. Gee thanks. How about this. You tell me how to stop someone from hopping on, and as soon as they are in teleporting everyone to them 100m up in the sky?!? They are not doing this for any other reason than to kill my server. Either you fix it, or give me a full refund. Im just about ready to walk away from this game permanently b/c of this.

13/09/2012 18:14

Shawn || Staff

William your server was automatically turned off because you locked it. You asked if you could password it we told you that you can not. If you are unsure as to how you can ban players please read the following link:

http://www.vilayer.com/cl/knowledgebase.php?action=displayarticle&catid=1&id=1

Best Regards,

Shawn (Support Technician)

Vilayer LTD | www.vilayer.com

13/09/2012 18:15

Shawn || Staff

Your server should also be online and operational now too.

Best Regards,

Shawn (Support Technician)

Vilayer LTD | www.vilayer.com

13/09/2012 18:28

William || Client

Hey shawn,

What am I supposed to do about ppl logging into the server and immediately killing everyone and just leaving? I can't preemptively ban them, I cant sit 24/7 staring at rcon and banning ppl as they login. The people who are doing this DONT care to play, they just want to ruin it for the ppl on my server b/c I caught them hacking on other guids. Also If you can pull my logs plz look in the arma2oa.rpt file and do a search for itemradio. There was a guy on my server with that and other hacked items who does not show in any log at the time and I couldnt get his guid out of rcon to ban him after he hopped off. Seriously this is harassment and I have no method of stopping these guys. Banning 1 account just means they come right back with another account and do it again when I restart. Your response that I should ban them is like trying to stop a flood with a bucket. They win b/c I cant possibly keep up with this and the tools being offered do not solve it.

If you guys aren't willing to let me password and aren't able to keep them out, just refund my $$ and close the server. Im one guy with a few friends trying to have a good time playing games. We can't spend our evenings rebuilding every hour or so when a hacker rolls in and does this. You guys seem to believe you are helping the community by not allowing the passwords but tbh my friends and I are the paying customer and thus the backbone of the community. We will leave and I think you will see a lot of your other server admins doing the same thing shortly.

13/09/2012 18:35

Shawn || Staff

William I understand your frustration and I am fully aware how passwording your server will help with this problem. These are the exact reason that we are making this one of our top priorities so we can help server administrators better protect their servers. Now our reasoning for not allowing passwords is similar to why the official DayZ teams does not allow passworded servers to run on their hive, people buy servers just to abuse this. Would everyone who passworded their server being abusing the system so they can infect other servers? Of course not but we need to protect these other customers as well.

At this time I do not have an ETA on when you will be able to password your server at this time. If you do not wish to wait for this feature though I can issue a prorated refund to your Vilayer credit balance.

Best Regards,

Shawn (Support Technician)

Vilayer LTD | www.vilayer.com

13/09/2012 18:50

William || Client

funny. People dont need a passworded server to "infect" another server. They just need a server that has no active admin to pull off their hacks. So your reasoning for not allowing passwords if pretty pathetic. Go ahead and prorate me and close down the server. I will not be coming back to your service and I will be posting this in full on the dayz forums later tonight.

And please dont tell me it isnt possible to have a simple solution to the ghosting issue. You could easily set it so ppl who server hop do so with no gear or end up on the starter locations when they come in. Either solution would cut down on that ghosting problem and could be done on the SQL database side. You could also mass ban ppl who write to your hive with gear that is clearly not legit like the guy who came onto my server with itemRadio. Again something that can easily be checked on the SQL database side and you could easily submit all of them to your own in house community ban list. You dont do any of that yet, instead tell the people who pay for your service to accept the glaring problems which you could address.

[SqTH 260]

Oh god this thread, I'm gonna love it.

[TheDesigner 1197]

Vilayer has rules agaisnt what you can do with your servers? Lulwat? Stop paying for that shit then. Although, this is a very one-sided argument, as you are showing us just what you want to show us, you did get irrational at the second PM.

[bodha 7]

Vilayer has rules agaisnt what you can do with your servers? Lulwat? Stop paying for that shit then. Although, this is a very one-sided argument, as you are showing us just what you want to show us, you did get irrational at the second PM.

I just got pissed with them when they told me the solution to unwanted players was to preemptively ban them while I'm on. Before that response I was just pissed that I had someone log into my server right after a restart and do a mass kill and vehicle tele.

Per vilayer I cant password, but I can ban ppl for no reason other than I dont want them on the server and do it while they are loading or very shortly thereafter...

Thats just not cool. I didn't want to waste my time or other ppls time doing that pointless exercise. Would you think thats a viable solution to gaming? I want to have fun, I want other ppl to have fun, I just wanted the hackers to go away and leave the ppl on my server alone.

[venthos 605]

I agree, this has the potential to be a fantastic thread.

Yet another admin who wants to have his cake and eat it too. "I want the benefits of a multiple server hive AND the benefits of my server being exempt from community rules so I can just do what I want (like password protect it)".

Sorry, sir. You must pick ONE. No rational person would ever allow passworded servers on a multi-server hive unless they ALL were password protected with the same password. Anything else creates servers that are safe havens for leveling/gearing up and then swapping to other servers for destruction.

Make your own private server with your own hive and run it however you want. Nobody is stopping you from doing that. As long as you play on someone else's hive (be it DayZ's or Vilayer's) you must abide by their rules.

Also, I still continue to laugh at the complaints and whines from people on shared hosting gameservers (as opposed to outright VPS or Dedicated Servers). It's like watching someone complain that their BestBuy e-Machine computer is shitty all the while demanding the quality of a custom built proper box. As far as I'm concerned, you have very little room to complain when you short change yourself (and your players) on a budget shared plan. Get a real box to admin yourself, rely on nobody else for your server's quality and setup. Do it yourself.

Edited September 14, 2012 by Venthos

[~HAWKEYE~ 8]

Vilayer are slow as F%$K my buddy ordered a server from them and they have yet to get his server up & running and he cant even login to his acp so

[venthos 605]

Imagine the quality of service your friend could have, -HAWKEYE-, if he ponied up for a proper box and administered the server himself. :) If you buy a budget/value plan, get budget/value support/quality.

[bodha 7]

I agree, this has the potential to be a fantastic thread.

Yet another admin who wants to have his cake and eat it too. "I want the benefits of a multiple server hive AND the benefits of my server being exempt from community rules so I can just do what I want (like password protect it)".

Sorry, sir. You must pick ONE. No rational person would ever allow passworded servers on a multi-server hive unless they ALL were password protected with the same password. Anything else creates servers that are safe havens for leveling/gearing up and then swapping to other servers for destruction.

Make your own private server with your own hive and run it however you want. Nobody is stopping you from doing that. As long as you play on someone else's hive (be it DayZ's or Vilayer's) you must abide by their rules.

Also, I still continue to laugh at the complaints and whines from people on shared hosting gameservers (as opposed to outright VPS or Dedicated Servers). It's like watching someone complain that their BestBuy e-Machine computer is shitty all the while demanding the quality of a custom built proper box. As far as I'm concerned, you have very little room to complain when you short change yourself (and your players) on a budget shared plan. Get a real box to admin yourself, rely on nobody else for your server's quality and setup. Do it yourself.

Hey I would be completely cool with them not being multi-server to 1 hive. Didnt go to them for that. I went there hoping to reduce the volume of hackers drifting through! Seems a lot of ppl had the same idea and when the player base moved vilayer's hive became public 2.0. First week it was fine, not many problems, but once the hive pop ramped up the hackers began systematically wrecking servers.

Hell I'm not the only admin who is pulling his server with them down over this. I'm just being vocal about it.

I'm just curious what ppl thought about vilayer's proposed temporary solution of ban everyone.

As for the arguments about passworded servers wrecking the whole hive thats just weak. All it takes for the servers to be wrecked is for hackers to go to the unpopulated vilayer hive servers. run their gear hacks. logout and login on the server where they will play. People who are willing to pay for a server are much less likely to be hacking since they sincerely want to play the game. Time and time again ppl though seem to think admins are going to do that when its much more cost effective to just use another person's server for that.

[bodha 7]

Imagine the quality of service your friend could have, -HAWKEYE-, if he ponied up for a proper box and administered the server himself. :) If you buy a budget/value plan, get budget/value support/quality.

now I will agree with that point. Anyway I got to run some errands will be back later. Enjoy the debate

[OrLoK 16185]

Hello there

The emails to you were clear and polite.Yours we less so.

The script kiddie issues are not their problem to solve, although they will assist, they just provide servers.

rgds

LoK

[Kipale 78]

I ordered server and waiting at second day now.

[~HAWKEYE~ 8]

Imagine the quality of service your friend could have, -HAWKEYE-, if he ponied up for a proper box and administered the server himself. :) If you buy a budget/value plan, get budget/value support/quality.

I agree, I have my own server box and have a dayz server running on it, I would run my own lingor server on it but that setup is weird and kinda pain. I told him that a dedicated box was easier.

[venthos 605]

As for the arguments about passworded servers wrecking the whole hive thats just weak. All it takes for the servers to be wrecked is for hackers to go to the unpopulated vilayer hive servers. run their gear hacks. logout and login on the server where they will play. People who are willing to pay for a server are much less likely to be hacking since they sincerely want to play the game. Time and time again ppl though seem to think admins are going to do that when its much more cost effective to just use another person's server for that.

...but it's effectively the same end result as hacking. It just takes a bit longer. If you password protect a server and only allow people you want onto it, you are artificially creating a safe haven for yourself with potentially zero risk of dying. Sure you may actually let random people on and try and harbor a "true" DayZ environment. But, most would just password lock the server and sit at NWAF clearing spawns until they had tents full of the best gear. No hacking required. Zero risk. Then they'd just head out to another server on the hive and bandit it up with their best gear. They get killed? No worries, retreat to their password protected safe haven and grab from their tents or re-farm gear in complete peace.

You can't argue that such abuse would'nt be rampant if they allowed password protection. It already is a problem even WITH the rule. Just look at the server reporting forum for the volume of threads about "server password protected, only the admin and 1 other person are one" or whatever.

All servers must allow for equal rewards AND equal risks. If you don't want to participate in an equal community that doesn't permit password protection, that's *fine*. Just create your OWN hive. Then it is "equal" because there isn't another server on the hive with different rules.

[airborne01@comcast.net 23]

Vilayers service was so piss-poor we dropped our server entirely. We all decided it was better to get hacked/killed for free than pony up anything to vilayer to get hacked/killed on a server we were paying for..

[venthos 605]

People who are willing to pay for a server are much less likely to be hacking since they sincerely want to play the game. Time and time again ppl though seem to think admins are going to do that when its much more cost effective to just use another person's server for that.

I also want to directly address this point. I would argue that people who pay for the $20-$30 'budget' plans like Vilayer, HFB, and other "shared gameserver" plans are much more likely to be abusive admins who break rules for the advantage of themselves or their friends. I would also argue that those who spend the extra money for a proper VDS or Dedicated Server are much less likely to do that.

I have no hard data to back this up, but from what I've seen on the forums and in-game, a lot of the Vilayer/budget server are run by kiddies or otherwise people who want a server to BE an Admin rather than spend the extra money to host a proper, stable, and reliable server for their players.

There are, of course, exceptions both ways. But that's the trend I see.

[airborne01@comcast.net 23]

I also want to directly address this point. I would argue that people who pay for the $20-$30 'budget' plans like Vilayer, HFB, and other "shared gameserver" plans are much more likely to be abusive admins who break rules for the advantage of themselves or their friends.

I am curious how the selfish opinion came around that people have a "right" to play on a server that someone else pays for?

Edited September 14, 2012 by Dekker001

[ersan 219]

As much as I don't like Vilayer and think they offer incredibly sub-par support, performance, and server control (as they are a rival company), I have to side with them on this. You can't allow password locking on a multi-server hive, otherwise people will lock their servers, farm a bunch of gear, and then go on other servers in the same hive and have an unfair advantage over the other players without said gear. We do the exact same thing, if you want to password your server whenever you want you have to put your server on its own private hive (which is very easy with us) - we don't allow passwording on the DayZ.ST hive.

Edited September 14, 2012 by ersan191

[venthos 605]

I am curious how the selfish opinion came around that people have a "right" to play on a server that someone else pays for?

Smug self-entitled admins often come up with this argument because they disregard a key point. The question is answered by further extending up the ladder.

"I am curious how the selfish opinion came around that server admins have a "right" to disregard the rules of participating on the public hive at their own discretion just because they've spent money?"

The popular cry queen response is "Don't you understand?! I am paying MONEY for my server. Don't you hear that?! MONEY! REAL MONEY!"

So what? The mod is plenty strong with admins like me who understand that the "OH GOD, REAL MONEY" I pay every month is an entertainment expense that I fully consider a throwaway amount. To expect any special privileges/treatment because you spent/spend money is laughably self-entitled and arrogant. You are participating as an alpha tester, just like the players. By paying money for a server (like I do, as a DayZ server admin) the only difference is that you make a statement saying you love the game enough to pay monthly for it. That's it. You are not a special snowflake who gets to cry and stomp their feet for special treatment just because you decided you wanted to pay money. If it's so much of a crisis for you to spend money every month and not get the exact experience you want, running a server for an alpha mod is not for you. Please turn down your server.

Edited September 14, 2012 by Venthos

[bodha 7]

As much as I don't like Vilayer and think they offer incredibly sub-par support, performance, and server control (as they are a rival company), I have to side with them on this. You can't allow password locking on a multi-server hive, otherwise people will lock their servers, farm a bunch of gear, and then go on other servers in the same hive and have an unfair advantage over the other players without said gear. We do the exact same thing, if you want to password your server whenever you want you have to put your server on its own private hive (which is very easy with us) - we don't allow passwording on the DayZ.ST hive.

I can accept their stance on passwording, just amazed me that they then suggested I just ban ppl as they login. Would you suggest that someone ban everyone they dont know? I would have even been cool with them telling me they would suspend the server until they could get me a private hive, but they didnt suggest nor offer that directly.

Smug self-entitled admins often come up with this argument because they disregard a key point. The question is answered by further extending up the ladder.

"I am curious how the selfish opinion came around that server admins have a "right" to disregard the rules of participating on the public hive at their own discretion just because they've spent money?"

The popular cry queen response is "Don't you understand?! I am paying MONEY for my server. Don't you hear that?! MONEY! REAL MONEY!"

So what? The mod is plenty strong with admins like me who understand that the "OH GOD, REAL MONEY" I pay every month is an entertainment expense that I fully consider a throwaway amount. To expect any special privileges/treatment because you spent/spend money is laughably self-entitled and arrogant. You are participating as an alpha tester, just like the players. By paying money for a server (like I do, as a DayZ server admin) the only difference is that you make a statement saying you love the game enough to pay monthly for it. That's it. You are not a special snowflake who gets to cry and stomp their feet for special treatment just because you decided you wanted to pay money. If it's so much of a crisis for you to spend money every month and not get the exact experience you want, running a server for an alpha mod is not for you. Please turn down your server.

I understand the argument you are making. Now tell me... would you pay continue paying someone for a service you can personally make use of? I had few problems the first week. But week 2 came around and my server had become popular so I ended up spending most of my time fighting the hackers. Once they knew I was the admin they then start targeting me in particular. I had ppl logging onto my server tele'ing to me and then killing me and then logging off. They did not care if I banned. They just have another person/account come in and do it a few hours later. As the service provider vilayer failed to understand I wanted some degree of protection from that or I wanted to end the service. The solution they offered was effectively password the server by banning anyone I dont know. My question is how is that different from passwording the server? The only difference I see is that it would take a bit of effort on the part of the admins, but hey at that point I might as well give all the regulars rcon access and let them all take turns banning incoming players. Would you as another admin within the same hive feel better knowing that is going on within the hive rather than simply passwording?

And ven what server are you running? Willing to let ppl know so the hackers can target you next? Or are you keeping it quiet and hoping to fly under the radar?

Edited September 14, 2012 by bodha

[venthos 605]

As the service provider vilayer failed to understand I wanted some degree of protection from that or I wanted to end the service.

This is your flaw right there. This is like owning a toaster that has a defect in, but then calling the electric company to bitch about it and demand they "safen up" your toaster. You are entitled to a functional service daemon on a server, not a functional game experience. Vilayer has no say in how the ARMA2 engine is developed or the DayZ mod is developed. To expect them to be held responsible for a poor experience due to hackers is just as ridiculous as holding your electricity company responsible in the toaster analogy.

The solution they offered was effectively password the server by banning anyone I dont know. My question is how is that different from passwording the server? The only difference I see is that it would take a bit of effort on the part of the admins, but hey at that point I might as well give all the regulars rcon access and let them all take turns banning incoming players. Would you as another admin within the same hive feel better knowing that is going on within the hive rather than simply passwording?

Doesn't really matter how I feel about Vilayer's policies for their own hive. It's just that -- THEIR hive. You elected to participate in their hive instead of [A] DayZ hive -or- Your own personal hive. If you use anybody else's hive, you must abide by their rules. Kind of like the whole cliche "While you're under my house, you'll live by my rules! BUT DAD, THAT'S NOT FAIR!". You don't get to elect into a situation and then complain about it afterwards.

And ven what server are you running? Willing to let ppl know so the hackers can target you next? Or are you keeping it quiet and hoping to fly under the radar?

You will not find me publicly advertising my server anywhere. Notice how you had to ask? ;)

I've grown a very small population of people through receiving PMs on the forums or otherwise being nice to people on my server and them bringing their friends. That's the only way I want my server's population to grow. Is it really small? Sure. I wish more people would login. But, the few times it's suddenly had 30+ people on the box (for unknown reasons) hackers undoubtedly showed up. I'm in no hurry to max out my server (yet), but you also will *never* see a whine post from me about hackers. It's an Alpha mod for an engine that borderline encourages hacking. I knew the circumstances before I even entertained the idea of leasing a server to setup a DayZ server on.

I knew going in that I could very well be paying to have people hack my server. I accepted those circumstances, because the vast majority of the servers out there are run on restricted shared gameservers services (like Vilayer) and/or have terrible admins who have no idea how to run a server. I would rather be able to play on a stable machine and get hacked vs. fight to get into a server in the first place and get hacked. At least I know when I get hacked it's because there was nothing I could do vs. some "set and forget" DayZ-in-a-box server whose admin is concerned about vehicle hoarding.

[sidereal6 1]

...but it's effectively the same end result as hacking. It just takes a bit longer.

So let me see if I get this straight: we're going to force you to play with cheaters, because otherwise you might cheat.

That's basically what you're saying. That makes awesome sense.

Some of the people who want to password protect a server want to set up a white list and play with their friends. No malicious intent at all. Some other people might cheat. So according to you, because some people might cheat, we're going to deny everyone else the chance to play the game in peace.

Oh, and vilayer's suggestion is that you just ban everyone who connects - so you can still farm gear, so your entire argument is moot.

[venthos 605]

So let me see if I get this straight: we're going to force you to play with cheaters, because otherwise you might cheat.

That's basically what you're saying. That makes awesome sense.

You know as well as I do that's a straw man. I'm saying all servers should have the same risks and the same benefits. I believe I already stated that almost word for word. To do otherwise defeats the purpose of a multi-server hive and provide servers with higher risks/rewards than others. This sets things out of balance on the hive and results in a poor experience overall for everyone.

Some of the people who want to password protect a server want to set up a white list and play with their friends. No malicious intent at all.

Fantastic! Setup your OWN private hive for just you and your friends. This way it's literally impossible for you to inflict negative results on any other players. I also believe I've already stated this.

Some other people might cheat. So according to you, because some people might cheat, we're going to deny everyone else the chance to play the game in peace.

Yes, because deviating from a hive-wide standard fosters cheating and unbalance, everyone on a given hive should keep uniform risks and rewards. If you want to just go PvE and wander around collecting shit, as stated, make your own private hive! I swear to you no one will give two shits what you do on your own hive. DayZ, Vilayer, or anyone here (including me). I don't even care what you do on Vilayer's hive since I'm not a part of it. I bet the other people on Vilayer's hive care, though.

Again, the simple solution here is to just setup your very own private hive of hivey goodness. Then you can spawn 30 helicopters, 100 AS 50s, or just run around laughing in direct chat rolling in the grass. Nobody will care. Why? It's your OWN hive.

Just save everyone the crying on the forums about how you have to abide by a given Hive's rules and make your own private hive for just you and your friends. Please.

Oh, and vilayer's suggestion is that you just ban everyone who connects - so you can still farm gear, so your entire argument is moot.

Again as previously stated (are you not reading my posts?) it doesn't matter what I think about Vilayer's hive rules. I don't participate in the hive and I couldn't care less what you do there. I'm just explaining to you why it's hilariously sad that you're upset about their rules despite that you elected to participate in their hive vs. making your own.