Addressing "DayZ Game Mechanics thread".

[Fabik 71]

Killing people to take their loot is a winning move ONLY if you consider that the gear determines whether you win or lose.

Not everybody thinks that way.

To many, the pleasure doesn't come from having the best gear as fast as possible. It comes from the scavenging and the work needed to reach the goals we set ourselves. And it has nothing to do with game mechanics.

The game itself doesn't tell you that you've won anything when you kill someone or when you loot an AS50. The feeling of success is IN YOUR HEAD.

As buddhism says 'The Way is the Goal'.

The Way that leads to the gear is more important than the gear itself...

Edited September 12, 2012 by Fabik

[Gavalin 90]

Ok holy crap. SillySil, man you get hammered, beans for keeping your cool.

Ok Gambles, debate or not yea keep your cool bro.

I posted in SillySil's original post, Gambles you stated you didnt' read that whole thread, please look at my post there.

I will try to add to it here.

I find SillySil's post easy to follow and his mind set, simply put he is a min-maxer. I follow this logic because I do it myself. I will try to give examples.

To win at DayZ you survive, ok surviving you need (To ideally survive by pure game mechanics).

1:Food 2: Drink. 3: Way to defend yourself. This is all really it.

Ways to achieve said goals.

1: Crawl on your stomach through towns to get said stuff.

2: Shoot guys crawling on ground to get said stuff

With that two basic ways to play laid out, risks involved?

The guy crawling around for stuff has to deal with 25% of the population who kills -anyone- on sight for pleasure or fun

50% of the population that is KoS outta paranoia. 10% chance to run into a hero that -isn't- going to kill you. Every other player avoids you <insert random anti social reason> then a small % chance you die to the game itself.

Looking at it from a numerical stand point the guy doing all the work himself, outside a sense of personal accomplishment he's not got a great chance at coming out on top.

From SillySil's perception, option 2. The guy who shoots the crawling guy. What he has to deal with?

Ummm random chance he can get spotted by someone like himself, skill and ghillie come into play (I assume he has both since he is a bandit hoping for more reasons to be a hero) and ... almost none of the other things matter, he isn't putting himself at risk. Doesn't have to?

On a side not of morality, its getting mixed up, he was saying he wished there was something -like- it in the game to encourage players to be bandits or heroes. Currently the bonus' to being a bandit even if they are not like a perk that the hero skin has, are just better. I for one agree and I am a hero but for the movement or BPV (As I didn't know about them til this SillySil's thread) I just want to be, I still put on my ghillie though because hero skin be damned, over 50% of the game population shoots at me just because I moved. That isn't a good % for surviving. 50% being a modest educated guess. I have snuck up on several people and asked if they are friendly, common response when a bush wookie asks if you're friendly? 100% Alt f4 out of fear. (So far)

His comments also come from personal experiences. You say (Gambles) that you get all kinds of perks and stuff from being a good hero. He said when he was a good person he was shot too much. So neither side has much ground to stand on, the debate comes down to general populace feed back. I, as I stated, agree with SillySil, being a bandit is just higher profit, shorter time, characters live longer (Which by definitions given is the point of DayZ)

Another thing of note you both agree that shooting people who are unarmed makes you a dick, thats good. I can see people doing it a few times to get some game bordem outta the way.

Again stating what I stated in the other forum Heroes will be heroes because they want, Bandits will be Bandits because they want to. Those on the fence (Min maxers) Will do what gets them weapons, food, and water the fastest aka banditry. (This one statement, all that there, is why SillySil suggest the game is set up bad for being a Sandbox) The -simulator's- mechanic's are tailored to make Banditry faster, easier.

Edited September 13, 2012 by Gavalin

[Fabik 71]

I, as I stated, agree with SillySil, being a bandit is just higher profit, shorter time, characters live longer (Which by definitions given is the point of DayZ)

Bandit characters live longer ? I'm not sure about that.

My gut feeling is that you live longer if you avoid firefights. Sure it will take longer to get good stuff but, as I said earlier, scavenging is fun. :)

[SillySil 295]

Killing people to take their loot is a winning move ONLY if you consider that the gear determines whether you win or lose.

Not everybody thinks that way.

To many, the pleasure doesn't come from having the best gear as fast as possible. It comes from the scavenging and the work needed to reach the goals we set ourselves. And it has nothing to do with game mechanics.

The game itself doesn't tell you that you've won anything when you kill someone or when you loot an AS50. The feeling of success is IN YOUR HEAD.

As buddhism says 'The Way is the Goal'.

The Way that leads to the gear is more important than the gear itself...

When it comes to DayZ it's more about not loosing than winning. And getting good gear helps you a lot with not dieing. Because once you do get spotted by someone who's not friendly you need to do something about it, and assuming you don't want to exploit and alt+f4 you'll probably have to reason with the guy using bullets.

And I'm talking only about game mechanics. From the designer point of view. What people find fun comes later. Ideally all playstyles are equally valid mechanic-wise and they are all fun.

Bandit characters live longer ? I'm not sure about that.

My gut feeling is that you live longer if you avoid firefights. Sure it will take longer to get good stuff but, as I said earlier, scavenging is fun. :)

You don't have to seek firefights to kill on sight. Say you went to stary and you see a guy there. It's very likely that he's not going to share the loot or that will be afraid of you and shoot you. You can back up and come later for scraps or you can just kill him. (And yeah skill comes in here just like for people being friendly. If you wanna fight better be in a good spot and check your surroundings before you fire. Just because you kill on sight doesn't mean you can't play smart.) Once he's dead not only you are sure that he's not going to kill you (either now or 5 minutes later somewhere else) but you get everything he has and you are free to loot all the tents. The game rewards you for killing.

The feeling of success and enjoyment doesn't affect that. No matter what you like to do and what you choose to do, the mechanics are still in the game and they still affect you.

[Gavalin 90]

Bandit characters live longer ? I'm not sure about that.

My gut feeling is that you live longer if you avoid firefights. Sure it will take longer to get good stuff but, as I said earlier, scavenging is fun. :)

As SillySil said, he doesn't have to look for gun fights, just look for the guy who crawled through all the tents and shoot him. I understand you live longer avoiding people. Or in my case out right scarying them into Alt F4. (People don't like to get poked with an Ak 47 or L85 then asked if they are friendly)

Again the posts he made and is arguing is -purely- due to mechanics.

[Gavalin 90]

Killing people to take their loot is a winning move ONLY if you consider that the gear determines whether you win or lose.

Not everybody thinks that way.

To many, the pleasure doesn't come from having the best gear as fast as possible. It comes from the scavenging and the work needed to reach the goals we set ourselves. And it has nothing to do with game mechanics.

The game itself doesn't tell you that you've won anything when you kill someone or when you loot an AS50. The feeling of success is IN YOUR HEAD.

As buddhism says 'The Way is the Goal'.

The Way that leads to the gear is more important than the gear itself...

In response to this, its not just the gear the Bandit gains from killing someone he sees. You loot their food, water (soda), ammo if they share a gun style.

What you didn't address in that post was this, you also gain the benefit that the guy who due to average thought+mentality, SillySil now doesn't have to worry about the guy shooting him. So by killing anyone he sees his survival rate goes up. Considering surviving is the name of the game. Obviously less threats = more surviving. Yes the guy could have friends, yes they could be close, SillySil already mentioned you can be a KoS'er and not be stupid. I'd imagine he most likely stalks a target, looking around the surrounding area to make sure its clear. Soon as the target is "safely out of town" pop, free loots.

As a Bandit its extremely easy to control your situations, if he has two friends, you can set up an ambush for them. If he has a couple friends with AS 50's you can make the call to bail leaving the group to its previous plans.

I know this stuff because I do it as a hero, minus the head capping the poor saps, however thats just -my- choice. I've had so many people dead to rights. Plus my over all goal in the game is to get a full squad all in military gear then go -run- fresh spawns through towns. I think it would be cool as hell to have like 4 soldiers escorting civilians around the town, laying down cover fire etc etc. Though these dreams will have to wait until stand alone.