What do you consider "ghosting"?

[Brew78 27]

Had a case of ethical dilemma, and was looking for some opinions.

So.. there's a server that I typically log into, but as of late its had fewer and fewer players online.

The other night, it was pretty much just me except for two guys that logged in, one of which was immediately kicked for a vehicle spawn script. I quit pretty quickly because I didn't know what the other guy's deal was...

Anyway, I figured that since I'm all samsquanched out and even got me an SVD camo, I might as well head on over to the outskirts of Cherno to get in position for some rooftop newb-killer countersniping.

Is getting into position on an empty server considered ghosting, even if its your "regular", and even if you don't have a specific target in mind? (ie, you're not trying to get behind someone you're trying to kill)

[Skat3rat 1633]

Ghosting is ghosting. Unless your like me. In which case when you get bored of your character you go into Chernose (The giant city near Eleckro that I don't know how to spell) on a low pop server, then server hop onto a hi pop server, then proceed to run around Cherno while singing over direct chat and seeing how long you can live.

[Muky 2]

I think this is known as 'Cherno chicken'

Ghosting is ghosting. Unless your like me. In which case when you get bored of your character you go into Chernose (The giant city near Eleckro that I don't know how to spell) on a low pop server, then server hop onto a hi pop server, then proceed to run around Cherno while singing over direct chat and seeing how long you can live.

Cherno Chicken sounds Fun

OT: I can see how it would be frustrating for one of your victims, but your not intentionally doing it to avoid death.

Still ghosting non the less

Edited September 10, 2012 by Muky

[pidian 19]

Is getting into position on an empty server considered ghosting,

i think thats pretty much the dayz dictionary definition of ghosting. its certainly not as bad as ghosting in combat to get into an enemy line or something, but clearly it ragged on your conscience and i would have to agree its a "cheap" move despite your noble intentions...that being said, hope you found some 12 year old AS50 TWS coast snipers to destroy ;)

[nyk_nunya 40]

Ghosting, from what I've gathered, is intentionally logging out and changing your position to get behind someone, or having a friend/friends log in behind where someone killed you to, kill them.

Anything beyond this is normal game play. If you follow that kind of logic, the only time you should ever be able to switch servers is after you die and you get spawned on the coast. Whether it's finding a position to counter snipe, getting far enough away for loot to spawn, or just finding a safe place to log out, that, is not ghosting.

[venthos 605]

I'm with pidian. Using another server to gain position for any reason (even if it's to get to loot pile) would be ghosting. The Hive is meant to be there so that people can always play DayZ -- even when the server they normally play on is full. It's not meant to allow you to abuse the ability to move to other servers to side-step the risks of the game (be it PvP or PvE risks) or to benefit from server hopping for loot. I'd like to see solutions for these issues come forth in Standalone. We'll see, though :)

[nyk_nunya 40]

Everyone here who thinks moving anywhere to get a position is ghosting, lemme ask you a question.

Do you run to the coast every time you're about to log off?

Do you stay on the same server, 100% of the time?

Different servers are there for a reason, you shouldn't be forced to primarily play on a single server if you chose not to. Also, nothing will be able to be done about this, outside of making it impossible to log in a certain radius of structures. You can't stop people from moving around and logging in another server, you can't stop people using the loot spawn mechanics to their advantage. While you may not agree with these things, not much can, or will be done in the mod. Standalone is going to be a different story, but is years away from being available as a full game, if Rocket and BIS is smart anyway.

It's definitely a good debate to bring up, I was thinking about this the other day. A friend of mine logged out near his camp site, logged into another server the next day, turns out there was a campsite close by. He went to investigate, got killed, and then banned for ghosting. Now, had this not been the admins camp, this likely wouldn't have occurred, but there we have it.

What is best is not to funnel the opinions of such a varied community into simply This or That.

The best solution is the multiple servers, with a detailed list of what they consider to be wrong or illicit activity, Other than ghosting in combat, we won't find many issues the community agrees on as a whole. With multiple servers with their own specific and detailed rule set, everyone would find few to call him, and we'd have much less arguing.

Edited September 10, 2012 by Inc0gnit0

[Sticker704 121]

Everyone here who thinks moving anywhere to get a position is ghosting, lemme ask you a question.

Do you run to the coast every time you're about to log off?

No, but if I'm logging off, it'll be a while until I log back on again, not 20 seconds.

[enforcer1975 1111]

i think thats pretty much the dayz dictionary definition of ghosting. its certainly not as bad as ghosting in combat to get into an enemy line or something, but clearly it ragged on your conscience and i would have to agree its a "cheap" move despite your noble intentions...that being said, hope you found some 12 year old AS50 TWS coast snipers to destroy ;)

I don't think he is doing anything noble..what if the sniper he shoots is another one with the same intentions??

[nyk_nunya 40]

No, but if I'm logging off, it'll be a while until I log back on again, not 20 seconds.

The OP didn't say he got into position on a low pop server, then immediately logged into a high pop server. From context we can assume he logged off for awhile, 20 minutes, 2 hours, the specifics we don't know, but a later juncture was implied. He has a similar issue to my friend, though in his case he's just wondering about it, vs being falsely accused and having action taken.

I really hope this doesn't boil down to 2 sides, that would be a shame. A large portion of those who would say yes would be assumed to be those who are angry over being ghosted, or having what they consider ghosting happen to them, and the majority of those who say no would be assumed to be people who like logging in behind others to gain an advantage or for loot.

Even without server hopping, you can still get behind people or get loot to spawn, it's just far more time consuming. The primary differences are, you didn't have to travel and, when logging in, someone has the chance to kill you before you finish loading.

I don't think he is doing anything noble..what if the sniper he shoots is another one with the same intentions??

There's an easy way of telling. My friends and I do it quite often. You hold position, you watch, you wait. If you see someone sniping unarmed players, you trash them. You also keep in mind that just because someone has a weapon, doesn't mean they're out to get you.

Edited September 10, 2012 by Inc0gnit0

[Sticker704 121]

The OP didn't say he got into position on a low pop server, then immediately logged into a high pop server. From context we can assume he logged off for awhile, 20 minutes, 2 hours, the specifics we don't know, but a later juncture was implied. He has a similar issue to my friend, though in his case he's just wondering about it, vs being falsely accused and having action taken.

I really hope this doesn't boil down to 2 sides, that would be a shame. A large portion of those who would say yes would be assumed to be those who are angry over being ghosted, or having what they consider ghosting happen to them, and the majority of those who say no would be assumed to be people who like logging in behind others to gain an advantage or for loot.

Even without server hopping, you can still get behind people or get loot to spawn, it's just far more time consuming. The primary differences are, you didn't have to travel and, when logging in, someone has the chance to kill you before you finish loading.

Oh. I thought you were referring to ghosting in general. Apologies.

[Skat3rat 1633]

One good idea to prevent ghosting that I've read about is that when you log off a server and try to rejoin another one, there is a certain amount of time you have to wait before you can get on. It doesn't completely get rid of ghosting but it could help.

[pidian 19]

Everyone here who thinks moving anywhere to get a position is ghosting, lemme ask you a question.

Do you run to the coast every time you're about to log off?

Do you stay on the same server, 100% of the time?

Different servers are there for a reason, you shouldn't be forced to primarily play on a single server if you chose not to. Also, nothing will be able to be done about this, outside of making it impossible to log in a certain radius of structures. You can't stop people from moving around and logging in another server, you can't stop people using the loot spawn mechanics to their advantage. While you may not agree with these things, not much can, or will be done in the mod. Standalone is going to be a different story, but is years away from being available as a full game, if Rocket and BIS is smart anyway.

It's definitely a good debate to bring up, I was thinking about this the other day. A friend of mine logged out near his camp site, logged into another server the next day, turns out there was a campsite close by. He went to investigate, got killed, and then banned for ghosting. Now, had this not been the admins camp, this likely wouldn't have occurred, but there we have it.

What is best is not to funnel the opinions of such a varied community into simply This or That.

The best solution is the multiple servers, with a detailed list of what they consider to be wrong or illicit activity, Other than ghosting in combat, we won't find many issues the community agrees on as a whole. With multiple servers with their own specific and detailed rule set, everyone would find few to call him, and we'd have much less arguing.

while i agree that since there is no "official" word on this and no way to prevent it with the current system its simply an opinion. but it is one shared by much of the community (at least in my experience, i dont pretend to speak for everyone).

ghosting, as i have been lead to understand, is abusing the HIVE system to avoid potential danger as you move around the map.

this would include the obvious: ghosting during combat to get to a better position on your adversary. it would also include the situation the OP asked about: using a low-pop server (read: not dangerous) to move into position and then log into a high-pop server to engage targets of opportunity.

we all know this happens with regularity as well as the folks who server hop for loot. its not something that can be stopped and with the convuluted nature of the rules and systems it does sometimes generate unfortunate situations like with what happened to your buddy. the OP asked the question, we're just answering him. as for me, when i log for the night i try to find a spot that wont have people around simply for the fact that i dont want to get killed while on a loading screen, lol. that and i really only play on private servers these days to avoid all the ghosting and server hopping that the HIVE allows for (and for the record, no, ive never been killed by a hopper or ghoster to my knowledge, so im not mad)

[Brew78 27]

Haven't actually logged back in yet; I don't get to play all that often these days. I hope to get on tonight though.

I guess my question is about whether intent is a factor. This is the server I would have logged into anyway, its not like I sought out an empty one just to move from point A to point B. I logged in, none of my friends were online at the time to log in with me, so I figured a leisurely stroll to the nearest city would be nice, popping some zombies along the way to get in some practice.

If there's any karma to be paid back though, I figure I'll be shot dead upon login. Its not like I found a new and innovative sniper location to log out at :D I mean.. there's a chance people will already be there, and if I saw a ghillie suit with large rifle log in right next to me, I'm not sure I'd stop to ask intent either.

I suppose I *could* log into an empty server and retreat further back into the woods and make a slow approach, but then that definitely WOULD be ghosting. I've made my bed, I'll lie in it.

[nyk_nunya 40]

I'm not arguing one way or another, it's an interesting debate and a good one. Like most questions about morals and ethics, I prefer not to have a formal opinion as it really doesn't matter. I prefer the intricate argument, and having a discussion. Unless they host their own servers, which they may, there won't be many solutions implemented to prevent this from happening. The only thing they could do feasibly is a timer, and perhaps something that tracks, kicks, and even bans for excessive logging, and in comes a whole different argument. As I said, the best solution is a rule set that each server sets up, saying "This is what we consider ghosting here..." and then enforce the rules accordingly. This isn't something you can simply say yes or no to, intent and context are the differences.

[pidian 19]

Haven't actually logged back in yet; I don't get to play all that often these days. I hope to get on tonight though.

I guess my question is about whether intent is a factor. This is the server I would have logged into anyway, its not like I sought out an empty one just to move from point A to point B. I logged in, none of my friends were online at the time to log in with me, so I figured a leisurely stroll to the nearest city would be nice, popping some zombies along the way to get in some practice.

If there's any karma to be paid back though, I figure I'll be shot dead upon login. Its not like I found a new and innovative sniper location to log out at :D I mean.. there's a chance people will already be there, and if I saw a ghillie suit with large rifle log in right next to me, I'm not sure I'd stop to ask intent either.

I suppose I *could* log into an empty server and retreat further back into the woods and make a slow approach, but then that definitely WOULD be ghosting. I've made my bed, I'll lie in it.

best of luck regardless, haha ^_^

[landon0605 1]

I think in general if you log out in with a sniper over watching some high traffic place with the intention to switch servers and kill people makes you a douche. Now if you log in in the middle of a city, I would consider that more acceptable because at least you are close to a level playing field if a gunfight were to break out. If I had a dollar for every time I killed someone logging in into a fire station, I would have like 5 dollars, they are just stupid.

[Doodler 4]

Ghosting is ghosting. Unless your like me. In which case when you get bored of your character you go into Chernose (The giant city near Eleckro that I don't know how to spell) on a low pop server, then server hop onto a hi pop server, then proceed to run around Cherno while singing over direct chat and seeing how long you can live.

so .. can u tell me if i'm scarying people in Day Z by changing my skin with a custom one and put creepy music in direct chat!? is this called ghosting too? Because once i started to do that and suddenly when i were in a open field i find myself in the air and some text in the middle "Once Alice... bla bla bla.. Right to the Moon!" WTF?

[hoorah (DayZ) 36]

At what point do you draw the line on logging into a high pop server?

What if you play on the same server, run to a sniping spot, but don't see anyone for 15 minutes. Log out. Come back the next day and log back in and there are 35 people in game while you're logging into your sniper spot. Is that ghosting? Should you have to logout in the woods or on the coast?

What if you're on a low pop server and your friend logs on and says "hey, we're in this server, join us there". Do you say "sorry guys, no can do, you have to meet me in the low pop"? Of course not.

I won't switch servers while in the middle of an active firefight, but anything else I just consider part of the gameplay.

[pidian 19]

At what point do you draw the line on logging into a high pop server?

What if you play on the same server, run to a sniping spot, but don't see anyone for 15 minutes. Log out. Come back the next day and log back in and there are 35 people in game while you're logging into your sniper spot. Is that ghosting? Should you have to logout in the woods or on the coast?

What if you're on a low pop server and your friend logs on and says "hey, we're in this server, join us there". Do you say "sorry guys, no can do, you have to meet me in the low pop"? Of course not.

I won't switch servers while in the middle of an active firefight, but anything else I just consider part of the gameplay.

well of course the first situation isnt ghosting since you arent using a safe server to avoid danger, youre just not online period. if you get lucky and log in right behind someone else who took up your same sniper hole they'll probably think you are though, so hopefully it isnt some douche admin on a power trip, lol.

the second situation with your buddies is just part of the HIVE situation we all have to deal with. i dont think many people have an issue with "ghosting" that isnt combat related since if youre playing on a public server your on the HIVE and there is simply no way to avoid those scenarios. but like you said, you wouldnt switch servers once engaged in a firefight or to join an active firefight on a different server your buddies were involved in, so i personally dont see any issue with what youre presenting for what my .02 is worth