Why is everybody so satisfied with ARMA2 Engine?

[EndEffeKt 87]

Hey Guys,

I am currently following the growing discussion about DayZ and WarZ.....this is just the introduction, NOT the actual topic.

And arguments I am hearing frequently is: "We got a simulator-engine", "We got the great ARMA2-Engine"

I have played DayZ for quite a while now on my crappy notebook that dropps to 15fps very commonly, so I dont want to talk about pretty graphics, cos I dont have any :D

In my time as a gamer I played serveral FPS and tactic-shooters and I really dont see the bright part in this engine. It basicly works like any other FPS for me, except for pretty unusual hotkeys and an inventory-system that is so buggy and absolutely designflawed, that you could actually fire the designer only for that reason.

We got multiple terrain-bugs and doors that kill us or break our legs. Who wasnt killed by the horrifying door-of-death?

On the pro side we got some food, water and temperature mechanics in it, but apart from that I dont see the groundbreaking differences to an engine like any battlefield-part since BF2.

I am not an old ARMA2 player and just got here for DayZ some months ago, so please enlighten me :)

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

I guess it's hard to explain if your playing on a notebook averaging at 15 fps.

For me, running on a decent rig, the graphics are great. One of the reasons that the Arma engine became well known was because of the AI that made for some amazing large scale battles without any scripting, although DayZ doesn't use this. For many people it's because of the weapon mechanics like bullet drop and so on. The weapons have a unique feel to them unlike any other FPS out there.

For every one of us that loves the engine though there's at least two others that hate it.

Edited September 7, 2012 by Fraggle

[void.false@gmail.com 300]

I'll make it short. Because the gun isn't glued to the side of the screen and you are playing the actual model instead of floating camera orb like in all other games.

[bazbake 456]

I'll make it short. Because the gun isn't glued to the side of the screen and you are playing the actual model instead of floating camera orb like in all other games.

Except the Fear series got there 5 years beforehand...and you had melee attacks.

Arma II is like one of those off-brand Swiss Army knife knock-offs. There's a lot of stuff going on in there, but the scissors don't open all the way, the toothpick's wooden, it has eight knives and none of them are particularly sharp, and it's fat and heavy and you don't really want it in your pocket so you end up never taking it out of the toolbox.

The basic scripting freedom of the game is its asset, since it claims to be a platform for simulators. What this actually translates into is, "We want someone who knows what they're doing to make all of this stuff actually work." So if not for Arma II you wouldn't have ACE, which is a far superior use of the basic principles and goals, which themselves as executed by BI are kind of "whatever."

What it actually reminds me of is Minecraft, in that it was a basic experiment with some rudimentary tools that creative individuals could make far more entertaining and attractive. Its simplicity and openness, however, is part of the appeal even if it only makes a passable game engine.

[void.false@gmail.com 300]

Except the Fear series got there 5 years beforehand...and you had melee attacks.

facepalm.avi

It was there since OFP back in 2001.

EDIT:

Oh and on the Ph34R note. It's just another corridor shooter.

Edited September 7, 2012 by void_false

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

I agree about the scripting freedom. It's the scripting that has allowed DayZ and other great mods to be developed. It's also the reason script kiddies are finding it so easy to ruin the game for some at the moment. It's a double edged sword.

Also Fear was a corridor shooter. A good one but you can't compare the engines.

Edited September 7, 2012 by Fraggle

[crush.lv@gmail.com 12]

It's the scale of the engine that gets my vote. It's got a huge map (I know MMOs have bigger ones, but it's designed to run on one server machine), you can have engagements between infantry, tanks, aircraft all over the map at the same time, it's got forests, valleys, rivers, towns, cities, wildlife, it's jsut huge for the sort of game that it is. It's not the most polished of games (I love BF3), but it's a different approach. It focuses more on the strategy, tactics, and logistics and is more realistic.

I can't think of any similar game this project could have been created on. The new Operation Flashpoint couldn't do it, I think. BF3 doesn't have the scale.

[Bobcomss 189]

It's the scale of the engine that gets my vote. It's got a huge map (I know MMOs have bigger ones, but it's designed to run on one server machine), you can have engagements between infantry, tanks, aircraft all over the map at the same time, it's got forests, valleys, rivers, towns, cities, wildlife, it's jsut huge for the sort of game that it is. It's not the most polished of games (I love BF3), but it's a different approach. It focuses more on the strategy, tactics, and logistics and is more realistic.

I can't think of any similar game this project could have been created on. The new Operation Flashpoint couldn't do it, I think. BF3 doesn't have the scale.

Couldn't agree more! Eadgar :)

People that flame about how the engine sucks and then compares the game to a FPS corridor shooter invalidates there argument there.... OP Have you even played ARMA2 & ARAM2:OA?

[svenbreakfast 231]

It is rough compared to most major studio titles. In a strange way it takes me back to some of the small studio games in the 90's. You can tell some prize nerds composed this shit. Bohemia was focused on tactical authenticity and when it came to things like ui, music, and VO they were more concerned with things like ballistics and detailed in-game realism.

Studios like Activision and EA put out very polished entertainment experiences, but this engine is at its core a training tool. That happens to work perfect for a survival game. Outhouses will turn you into a bloody pulp, but the world has enough juvenile shooters, and real men don't hide in shitters.

[CM LEGION 29]

I think its pretty bad. Only real redeeming quality is when you shoot another player a blood spurt comes out to let you know where you hit him, other then that one little thing, worst engine since 2003 easy.

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

Worst engine since 2003? Wow, you don't play many games do you?

[Ipurgepeople 106]

The engine has it's positives and negatives.

+the ballistics between bullet drop and bullet speed, etc.

+the sheer scale of what the engine is capable of doing (Compare to something like warcraft 3 engine, or starcraft, this is a phenomenal specimen - yes i know different genres)

+hunger, thirst, etc. are nice touches.

-Worst. Inventory. Ever. Clunky piece of garbage.

-the openness of the engine in regards to ease of scripting.

-the inventory SUCKS. Did I mention that?

So when it comes down to it, it's similar to other engines (even of different genres) in that it does have its positives and negatives.

But the inventory system is terrible. So bad that my vote goes to "bad engine" because of it.

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

I'm not sure that the bad inventory system can label it as a bad engine. It's getting built from the ground up for the standalone so it'll hopefully be much more user friendly.

[schrapple 119]

Complaining about day-z is like seeing someone build a car in their back shed that will do a lap of the Nerburgring in 4 minutes and criticizing it because it hasn't got power windows. I'm just thankful we have a game that has broken free of the grey blog of gaming where every new release is just a prettier copy of the previous release.

[EndEffeKt 87]

To the question if I ever played ARMA2: No I didnt, as I already stated in my opening post :)

Thanks for the answers and the good manner in this topic (I am an old Dota player and this community is so mannered at Forums that I have tears of joy in my eyes^^).

Yes, I really did not appreciate the huge scales of the map enough, thats absolutely right. Mechanics like a bulletdrop exist in tacticals shooters like forever. It was new to me with BF2 I think.

The inventory is not exactly part of the engine, but I mentioned it because its the worst peace of crappy design that I have encountered for a long time :) It takes hours to pick up stuff and manage between backpack and inventory and I dont know how many guns I have bugged away in the process.

All in all we can much appreciate the positive sides of the engine (realism, huge map...), but I really hope that ARMA3, bzw the standalone of DayZ, will concentrate more on up to date handling and user-friendly design of menus, inventory and controlls.

[lappihuan 26]

The engine has it's positives and negatives.

+the ballistics between bullet drop and bullet speed, etc.

+the sheer scale of what the engine is capable of doing (Compare to something like warcraft 3 engine, or starcraft, this is a phenomenal specimen - yes i know different genres)

+hunger, thirst, etc. are nice touches.

-Worst. Inventory. Ever. Clunky piece of garbage.

-the openness of the engine in regards to ease of scripting.

-the inventory SUCKS. Did I mention that?

So when it comes down to it, it's similar to other engines (even of different genres) in that it does have its positives and negatives.

But the inventory system is terrible. So bad that my vote goes to "bad engine" because of it.

You need to learn, to deal with the inventory. I had problems at my start too but now its pretty logical and if you know the 1-2 Bugs you can work around them ;)

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

As far as I know the UI will be a vast improvement on what we have now, happy days!

With regards to the bullet drop, I know other games have this but they (in my eyes) don't really compare to the Arma engine when it come to ballistics. In other games it usually just involves aiming slightly higher whenever your aiming at anything over a few hundred metres, whatever gun your using.

[magrathea 11]

In terms of scale, i don't think there is anything quite like it - realistic and open world roads, villages, trees, forests and rivers for miles and miles. If there is something else a lot like that can someone tell me what it is? i will get that game as well

[schrapple 119]

You need to learn, to deal with the inventory. I had problems at my start too but now its pretty logical and if you know the 1-2 Bugs you can work around them ;)

As much as I hate to admit it the inventory system does work, it is just very clunky. Once you learn how it works ( this normally requires losing a few cool items along the way) it is functional, but far from good.

[void.false@gmail.com 300]

-Worst. Inventory. Ever. Clunky piece of garbage.

-the openness of the engine in regards to ease of scripting.

-the inventory SUCKS. Did I mention that?

You know. This reminds me the old days when camper strike kids were complaining about OFP:

1) You can't jump

2) WTF somebody one shot me and I even didn't see him!

3) The hands.... WTF are those ugly hands???

[bjwimer 2]

So it seems the ones that say that the engine sucks only have complaints about the stuff DayZ brought to it. Play the actual game and you will see it is very well done. In the actual game you don't break your legs in doors. There inventory in DayZ has been essentially hacked in so it wasn't really supposed to be there to begin with.

[EndEffeKt 87]

I think we can summarize, that the inventory indeed is functional, but in a buggy and absolutely clunky way :)

[grezvany13 56]

First of all, ArmA2 (or any other "game" based on the VR engine) isn't a game; it's a simulator.

Since ArmA2 is actually build as a military simulator, with the possiblity to create your own game (missions, addons, scripts, etc.) it's a great tool for making and playing realistic games of warfare.

And due the fact that's it's realistic, even with all the core bugs, you're able to do things (or not) which arn't available in any other game.

I do agree that the VR engine isn't 100% perfect for DayZ, but it does show it can do anything.

The biggest problem DayZ has is that most people come from FPS games, and are therfor used to the default keys (WASD, SPACE, SHIFT) and mechanics (run, jump, shoot).

ArmA2 (and DayZ) are simulators and need a lot of keybinds to be able to do all the things you can do in real life too; look around you, use tools, interact with others, etc.

Even "old-skool" ArmA2 players can't remember each single key bind or key combination (ok, some can), especially when you play with additional mods like ACE and ACRE.

And since most DayZ players never played ArmA2, or even did the training missions, they're lost because they haven't the required basic knowledge of the game.

The only solution to this is to create a SP training mission, especially for DayZ, to learn the game mechanics and keybinds. When you understand how this works, you'll never have any problem with DayZ and will understand why some things can't be done.

Oh... and next time you rage because you broke a leg while crawling through a door; try this at home: go prone before your door, crawl halfway and turn 360 degrees while staying streched! I sure something will break!

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

I crawled through my door last night after a trip to the pub, your right, it really hurt.

[schrapple 119]

I think we can summarize, that the inventory indeed is functional, but in a buggy and absolutely clunky way :)

I don't think buggy is the right term (unless you count your ammo refilling by itself), I've never had anything just vanish it has always been because I have done something wrong. But clunky, yes absolutely.