Weapon jamming, FTF and low quality ammo

[A Man Named GOB 1]

Weapons should jam in this game. I do not think we should have to maintain the weapons, that would add alot of extra work to the game, but a weapon should jam or a bullet should fail to fire every once in a while. This would universally increase the tension for players. It would make you ask yourself if you should take a shot and alert someone to your presence since you might end up not getting a shot off. There should also be a tap rack bang animation which essentially puts another round in the chamber that would take a second or two.

Also, stealing an idea from Metro 2033 and Stalker is having different grades of ammo. There should be shitty ammo that is underpowered, more likely not to fire and that would make your weapon less accurate. This would put a premium on high quality, accurate ammo.

[scoffield77@gmail.com 192]

+1 gun jamming

-1 ammo quality

It would be really complicated to add different types of ammo. I believe there is more impotent things to do.

[A Man Named GOB 1]

So is adding player run towns and fixable power grids ;p

+1 gun jamming

-1 ammo quality

It would be really complicated to add different types of ammo. I believe there is more impotent things to do.

[Deuzerre 64]

What mechanic do you recommand to happen when a weapon jams?

A fast animation to eject the troublesome cartridge? A slow animation? Critical jams that require partial dismantling?

Only automatic and semi-automatic weapons should be vulnerable to misfires. Pump action and bolt action shouldn't suffer from that.

I'm not really for low grade and high grade ammo. With how reloading works in the game, you might end up using your high quality ammo when you don't want to. And remember that in Metro 2033, they are underground manufactured low quality ammunition. the high quality ones are military grade remaning ammo.

This game is just after things "F'd up", so no new "crappy" ammo.

TL;DR:

+1 gun jamming

-1 ammo quality

[A Man Named GOB 1]

Any bullet in any weapon can fail to fire, there are many reasons why but an easy one is a bad primer. This would require the player to perform a drill like "tap rack bang" to clear the bad round. The animation should take a second or two. The reason for my suggestion is that it is both realistic and would make every player question whether they should pull the trigger or not. If the bullet doesnt fire, the hammer or firing pin still makes a pretty loud noise that would alert nearby players or zombies.

Maybe the ammo isnt a great idea but both Stalker and Metro had a similar mechanic. Stalker had different types of ammo for each weapon.

What mechanic do you recommand to happen when a weapon jams?

A fast animation to eject the troublesome cartridge? A slow animation? Critical jams that require partial dismantling?

Only automatic and semi-automatic weapons should be vulnerable to misfires. Pump action and bolt action shouldn't suffer from that.

I'm not really for low grade and high grade ammo. With how reloading works in the game' date=' you might end up using your high quality ammo when you don't want to. And remember that in Metro 2033, they are underground manufactured low quality ammunition. the high quality ones are military grade remaning ammo.

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[Deuzerre 64]

Yeah, but both metro and Stalky have "societies" and NPC trading.

Two seconds seems good enough. I vote for a rare critical jam that would need a dozen seconds though.

Most jams I encountered though were because of full auto firing, sometimes it gets boggy: Bullet flew away, but cartridges get stuck in ejection (old guns though).

[A Man Named GOB 1]

Could also be shitty Russian ammo that is steel cased and coated. That shit melts and jams weapons.

Yeah' date=' but both metro and Stalky have "societies" and NPC trading.

Two seconds seems good enough. I vote for a rare critical jam that would need a dozen seconds though.

Most jams I encountered though were because of full auto firing, sometimes it gets boggy: Bullet flew away, but cartridges get stuck in ejection (old guns though).

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[SEF 0]

Jamming could rarely happen. But im not for quality. Its already difficult to find ammo for rare weapons and i dont think its a good idea to change its chance to add this feature.

[Friend-or-Pho 0]

I would only be in favor or weapon jamming if it were dependant on the condition/quality of the weapon. There would also have to be a cleaning kit that would take up a Tool inventory slot. This way it would be up to the player to make sure thier weapons are always in fighting condition. Obviously, if this were implemented it should also reflect the real-world ruggedness of each weapon.

As far as ammo quality, I'm not entirely sold on the idea. Logically it makes sense, and it would actually be the easier of the 2 suggestions to implement.

[A Man Named GOB 1]

My concept does not have anything to do with weapons being clean. I think that would just add one more thing you had to manage. This idea is based around faulty ammunition. The best ammo in the world can and does fail to fire. Any weapon can suffer from a fail to fire, double stacking, stovepipes, bad primers or any number of problems without having to include weapon cleanliness. Basically, just like in real life, it could happen at any time and you have no control over it.

I would only be in favor or weapon jamming if it were dependant on the condition/quality of the weapon. There would also have to be a cleaning kit that would take up a Tool inventory slot. This way it would be up to the player to make sure thier weapons are always in fighting condition. Obviously' date=' if this were implemented it should also reflect the real-world ruggedness of each weapon.

As far as ammo quality, I'm not entirely sold on the idea. Logically it makes sense, and it would actually be the easier of the 2 suggestions to implement.

[/quote']

[Friend-or-Pho 0]

This is ture, but if fautly ammo was added, it shouldn't occur more than it does in the real world (depending of quality). A lot of games that have weapon jamming do so in a very simplistic fashion. If implemented it should truely simulate all of the possible ways in which a gun misfires, without being exaggerated.

Consider my suggestion about weapon cleanliness just another layer of detail to your own. Besides if bulk quality ammo were to be added, you would need to clean your gun more regularly.

[A Man Named GOB 1]

I agree on it not being something that should happen often. In my mind, it would be something you have to worry about even if it happens once out of 150 rounds. Also, I dont dislike the idea of having to clean weapons, but I think we have to be careful about the line between realistic shooter and a simulation. No matter what people say about realism, the game in its current state already sacrifices some realism when it would detract from gameplay.

This is ture' date=' but if fautly ammo was added, it shouldn't occur more than it does in the real world (depending of quality). A lot of games that have weapon jamming do so in a very simplistic fashion. If implemented it should truely simulate all of the possible ways in which a gun misfires, without being exaggerated.

Consider my suggestion about weapon cleanliness just another layer of detail to your own. Besides if bulk quality ammo were to be added, you would need to clean your gun more regularly.

[/quote']

[Friend-or-Pho 0]

Don't get me wrong I agree with you there. My initial fear about this idea was that it would turn into Farcry 2 or Stalker where your AK jams every other round because it is "a little dirty".

[scoffield77@gmail.com 192]

So is adding player run towns and fixable power grids ;p

Valid argument ;)

[A Man Named GOB 1]

Nah, if it were up to me, it would be solely about the ammo. I just want you to be worried about your gun jamming and making noise when the firing pin releases after you've snuck up on a player and are going for a stealth kill. Tension!

Don't get me wrong I agree with you there. My initial fear about this idea was that it would turn into Farcry 2 or Stalker where your AK jams every other round because it is "a little dirty".

[mike10019314@yahoo.ca 3]

i like the idea of weapon and ammo quality, some weapons would work better than others if the quality is low like a ak vs a m16 for example, weapons found in deer stands could almost always be mid to low quality weapons from being left outdoors for a lenth of time (maybe have a one use gun cleaning or repair kit to boost the guns quality by 10 or20? (have gun quality scale from 10 to 100, with 10 being something you might find on a zombie as loot that barely works and 100 being something factory fresh)

for ammo it could be the dif betwen cold war era 7.62wp from the 50's or 60's and more recently made rounds,(old soviet ammo tends to have cracks in the caseings and other problems)

would be neet if low quality weapons had visible rust and or damage(cracked stock fixed with duct tape or wire)

[lastkossack 2]

I support gun jamming, with just a simple "hint" in the screen "JAMMED"... so youll need to reload the weapon to clear the jam

Ammo quality, ... not sure about that, maybe Zip guns? :D

[worldwar2freak 0]

I like the jamming idea, dislike everything else.

[Techercizer 82]

Don't like this, or really see what it has to add to the game. Jamming weapons are just arbitrary ways for a RNG to kill your character, and low quality ammo will either over-supply an already bullet-heavy looting environment or push the chances of getting a decent working magazine down to about that of Camo or NVGs.

[Budiak 1]

To properly add this mechanic I think you'd need to add several things.

1: Several new types of ammo for each weapon system

2: Weapon cleaning

3: Weapon cleaning kit-item, unlimited use

4: Oil- item, multiple use consumable

5: Weapon cooldown meter. Not that your weapon will overheat, but it represents the point at which your weapon is not effected by carbon buildup- while your weapon is still warm, it will fire reliably. Once it cools down, jamming will begin to occur.

I wouldn't be against having a weapons cleaning kit, where you'd find a cozy spot and spend 15 seconds with the magic hands animation maintaining your weapon. I think also you could maintain a magazine with the kit, and you would effectively improve the quality of a magazine by spending time cleaning it and the rounds. The weapons cleaning kit would be multiple use, just like matches. If you don't have a kit or never take the time to clean your equipment, you suffer jams, just like in real life.

Weapons would very slowly degrade over a period of time if not fired, like in real life.

Weapons would degrade at a much more rapid pace when fired. Not necessarily a per-bullet rate.

The thing about a dirty weapon is that during a firefight your weapon is not going to necessarily start jamming. The carbon mixes with the oil and acts as a lubricant while the weapon is still hot. It's after the firefight, when the whole system cools down that you get solidified carbon and solid deposits. That's when jamming happens. Usually you can get away with squirting some oil on the bolt to get by but if it doesn't get cleaned it will eventually jam constantly.

Here's how it all comes together:

So what I say, is that your weapon would get dirty, but you could clean it. You couold fire a gun once or twice at a time without making it notably unreliable. Once you start laying down fire, say, a few magazines worth over a few minutes time, it starts heating up. Once the gun cools back down, it needs to be cleaned. This represents carbon buildup followed by carbon solidification. Then it would need to be cleaned. In lieu of cleaning, oil could be applied before a firefight. This is a temporary fix with what I propose to be a multiple use consumable item. Once you run out of oil, you'd best look for a cleaning kit and a safe spot. I do not believe that every weapon should jam because well kept weapons jam far less than those that are never maintained. Characters who maintain their weapons will experienced a drastically reduced malfunction or stoppage rate.

But like, oh, 99% of the suggestions in the suggestion forum, I'd rather this mechanic not be introduced at all. If it is, it should be done properly, meaning in order to stimulate genuine emotional reactions in the player instead of arbitrarily making the game difficult.

[nikiller 122]

hi,

To properly add this mechanic I think you'd need to add several things.

1: Several new types of ammo for each weapon system

2: Weapon cleaning

3: Weapon cleaning kit-item' date=' unlimited use

4: Oil- item, multiple use consumable

5: Weapon cooldown meter. Not that your weapon will overheat, but it represents the point at which your weapon is not effected by carbon buildup- while your weapon is still warm, it will fire reliably. Once it cools down, jamming will begin to occur.

I wouldn't be against having a weapons cleaning kit, where you'd find a cozy spot and spend 15 seconds with the magic hands animation maintaining your weapon. I think also you could maintain a magazine with the kit, and you would effectively improve the quality of a magazine by spending time cleaning it and the rounds. The weapons cleaning kit would be multiple use, just like matches. If you don't have a kit or never take the time to clean your equipment, you suffer jams, just like in real life.

Weapons would very slowly degrade over a period of time if not fired, like in real life.

Weapons would degrade at a much more rapid pace when fired. Not necessarily a per-bullet rate.

The thing about a dirty weapon is that during a firefight your weapon is not going to necessarily start jamming. The carbon mixes with the oil and acts as a lubricant while the weapon is still hot. It's after the firefight, when the whole system cools down that you get solidified carbon and solid deposits. That's when jamming happens. Usually you can get away with squirting some oil on the bolt to get by but if it doesn't get cleaned it will eventually jam constantly.

Here's how it all comes together:

So what I say, is that your weapon would get dirty, but you could clean it. You couold fire a gun once or twice at a time without making it notably unreliable. Once you start laying down fire, say, a few magazines worth over a few minutes time, it starts heating up. Once the gun cools back down, it needs to be cleaned. This represents carbon buildup followed by carbon solidification. Then it would need to be cleaned. In lieu of cleaning, oil could be applied before a firefight. This is a temporary fix with what I propose to be a multiple use consumable item. Once you run out of oil, you'd best look for a cleaning kit and a safe spot. I do not believe that every weapon should jam because well kept weapons jam far less than those that are never maintained. Characters who maintain their weapons will experienced a drastically reduced malfunction or stoppage rate.

But like, oh, 99% of the suggestions in the suggestion forum, I'd rather this mechanic not be introduced at all. If it is, it should be done properly, meaning in order to stimulate genuine emotional reactions in the player instead of arbitrarily making the game difficult.

[/quote']

This. I had nearly the same idea. I will not copy my whole post then here's a link to it Weapons jamming, wear and overheat. I didn't saw this topic I should have posted here instead of creating a new one.

cya.

Nikiller.