Dynamic zombies spawn rates

[Bearded McGee 121]

Beforehand, I highly suggest you give Time Glitch's suggestion thread about drastically upping the overall difficulty of DayZ (255x :beans:) and Cheboygan's suggestion thread about upping the difficulty of effectively using sniper rifles (80x :beans:) a read.

http://dayzmod.com/f...-a-living-hell/

http://dayzmod.com/f...e-betterharder/

I'm taking both into account here.

I've been juggling with this idea for a while. maybe you've caught a glimpse of it peeking through some of my replies in other threads.

Currently, no matter how many zeds you kill, they just respawn after a few minutes.

Say "they" implemented a mechanic for the zed spawn rates?

The more zombies are killed within a zone, the lower the spawn rate becomes.

To compensate, the global spawn rates over the rest of the server would go up a bit.

Of course, there would be a minimum spawn rate so no amount of Zed killing could make a zone totally devoid of zombie spawns.

Also, to force players to move out of a safer-zone, loot pile spawns inside it would gradually augment in chances to spawn trash instead of anything useful.

Imagine, a small town like Olsha or Krasnostav (due to their proximity to the NEAF) gets occupied by an organized group of players.

They clear the streets and take care of the residual zombie spawns.

So, the organized group more or less become the enforcers and peacekeepers of the town.

They might even have a taxi service (paid for in ammo or medical supplies) for ferrying players to different places.

They might set up an actual shop and trading post.

Gee, they might even elect a mayor and a sheriff...

All of this would simply come down as a result of a spawning rate mechanic (which makes sense).

PVE is boring and useless right now. There's just NO reason to engage Zeds, at all.

This would bring a purpose to it.

If dupping/scripting was not possible/removed and we had a fresh-start, I'd expect this type of communities to arise all over the place, even without a spawning rate ratio modifier.

Devil's Castle would probably end up being the prime choice for settling shop and a continuous base in many servers.

Ever played Metro 2033? had a nice ammo economy, right?

Ever played S.T.A.L.K.E.R. SOC? Place like Rostok (think bar, Arena and Duty camp) could grow up, naturally, through sheer player interaction.

Bandits would gain a new purpose too. The actual raiding and banditry of settled outposts.

Heck, I'd probably give banditry a try then.

People often say that Banditry should be restricted and punished.

Banditry should actually be given INCENTIVES.

Current bandits are just killers with no real purpose except maybe getting QQ points.

Killing for the sake of killing is not cool.

Killing you for the sake of that sweet backpack you have is cool.

----

Imagine this scenario:

-So, word is the Devil's Castle Trading Camp found a M107 along with a few mags and they are offering it for trade.

-I'd love to get that gun, what do they want for it?

-Doesn't matter, they don't deal with bandits.

-Man, imagine all the killing we could do with that baby!

-So, we need a plan.

-How about a raid?

-Sound good to me.

-Tell the boys we are raiding Devil's Castle tonight at 2300h

-I'll pass the word

This might even lead to some metagame shenanigans. Having spies in the midst of the bandit groups (or bandit spies on the side of the traders).

If you've ever played EVE Online or maybe just followed some of the news about it, giving players a structured and sensible world without restrictions makes for awesome meta. A thousand players meeting in rookie ships to take down one titan is the example that comes to mind. The Devs themselves were taken aback in awe.

----

I know anything of the sort is currently impossible.

We'd need a hive wipe, a way to restrict all client-side scripts (and to make sure no main-hive servers do any monkey business).

We'd also need a better humanity system (so banditry becomes recognized as what it should be and hero skins become something people vies for).

Maybe also a way to prevent players from hoping from one server to another and back to get past other players fortifications.

Possibly, but it could work without, make changes to the loot system so players can't grind locations or server hop in order to amass high level loot, in good quantity and fast.

Edited September 6, 2012 by Axelord FTW

[Mos1ey 6301]

The way you sell this idea is beautiful but it would never happen in a million years in DayZ. We're currently about 95% bandits, maybe more, and I can't see zombies not respawning changing that.

[CerebralZombie (DayZ) 151]

I fully agree with you and many of us will, but could you imagine how many players would be scared away from DayZ? I could care less about those who can't handle a super hard game, but I know Rocket and the team see it as $$$ when everyone can enjoy it in some way. I know tons of us have played it long enough to know the ins n' outs of DayZ and would love it to be the way you are describing it, but I dunno if the game will be completely changed to that.

Maybe have it so servers can make the gameplay of DayZ the way they want and customize it. With having tons of servers different, it'd be as if we were givin' a ton of different zombie survival games in one. Everything from spawn rates to difficulty, ect, ect. Maybe have players get more involved and create mods to enhance the gameplay of DayZ.

Anyways, I'm to tired to go into to much detail, so good night! :D

[Bearded McGee 121]

The way you sell this idea is beautiful but it would never happen in a million years in DayZ. We're currently about 95% bandits, maybe more, and I can't see zombies not respawning changing that.

This would turn the current DayZ on its head.

A similar mechanic from the get-go one the standalone would push it beyond expectations.

The bigger issue, with either a modification of the curretn DayZ or the standalone would be balance.

Like I said, if we get a little town zombie-free-ish it would UP the rates everywhere else.

And it would make the loot spawn crappy in the zone.

The player population would balance out with the zombie extermination and the number of free zones.

To a point, getting more zones to drop the spawn rate would be impossible.

---

This could lead to groups of players trying to destroy other safe zones to be able to create their own.

---

If we make the UP gradient greater to it's equivalent down in the safe zones, a few zones free would make everywhere else HELL to be in.

The ratio of bandits right now is offset a great deal by the availability of end-level gear and the pointlessness of actually being a bandit.

Edited September 6, 2012 by Axelord FTW

[IIxSubmarinex 13]

FUCK the haters. this idea is legit as fuck, the reason there are so many bandits is because there is no incentive not to! theres nothing to do once you get high end gear, !!!

[sheriffhd 61]

I like this idea, Beans given.

It has the Safe zone (ish) that people have been asking for, while also giving some purpose to bandits (to be fair a bandits only purpose is to fuck shit up, so they can do that regardless )

[hombrecz 832]

Something has to be definitely done with zombie spawns.

If they spawn infinitely each 30 seconds or such, that's just bad mechanics.

I would understand many waves in Cherno and Elektro,but not around lonely barn in the woods.

Why not to implement number of zombie spawn waves based on density of civilian buildins in the vicinity?

Big town = many waves of zeds, small village = fewer waves and ofcourse after set ammount of waves, there would be period of peace like 10 mins or such.

[stephansabath@t-online.de 40]

Dont punish a player or group, for cleaning a village or city,with less loot. Thats not good.

I want more random spawned zombies in the woods, too.

Making the bandits more to a survivor or dependend on other players, I had an idea:

Characters speed walking/crouching ONLY ----> depending on thirst, hunger (maybe blood, too)

I know that would be very very hard, because the worst case is, that you only can walk and crouch to find food and drinks then, when you´re out of it and when you´re chased by a zombie you cannot RUN away, so your mate has to get you drinks and food. Maybe this makes no sense, it´s just an idea, because I like this hardcore gaming. This would make it necesarry to team up and act in a group, because someday the other one needs help. Should make it a bit more social ... hmmm.

I posted this in relation with the HUD, but different story ;)

Sry for being offtopic.

[hoik 415]

Dont punish a player or group, for cleaning a village or city,with less loot. Thats not good.

This IMO is not punishment but causality. The more people in one area the faster the resources will be getting used - it is also essential to make players from groups 'controlling' safe regions leave their haven in search of food.

OP, this is what dayZ needs. A total refocus!

[apache25 133]

you stole my town take overs idea but i do like the idea of trading posts or sheriffs you have my beans

[Bearded McGee 121]

you stole my town take overs idea but i do like the idea of trading posts or sheriffs you have my beans

Hahaha, good one.

Needed a laugh.

The takeover "feature" is a sub-consequence of dynamic spawn rates.

Actual takeovers (as in, stay in X town and it gets magically "taken over") are bad.

[Slavinkje 16]

I've been juggling with this idea for a while. maybe you've caught a glimpse of it peeking through some of my replies in other threads.

Currently, no matter how many zeds you kill, they just respawn after a few minutes.

Say "they" implemented a mechanic for the zed spawn rates?

The more zombies are killed within a zone, the lower the spawn rate becomes.

To compensate, the global spawn rates over the rest of the server would go up a bit.

Of course, there would be a minimum spawn rate so no amount of Zed killing could make a zone totally devoid of zombie spawns.

Also, to force players to move out of a safer-zone, loot pile spawns inside it would gradually augment in chances to spawn trash instead of anything useful.

Imagine, a small town like Olsha or Krasnostav (due to their proximity to the NEAF) gets occupied by an organized group of players.

They clear the streets and take care of the residual zombie spawns.

So, the organized group more or less become the enforcers and peacekeepers of the town.

They might even have a taxi service (paid for in ammo or medical supplies) for ferrying players to different places.

They might set up an actual shop and trading post.

Gee, they might even elect a mayor and a sheriff...

All of this would simply come down as a result of a spawning rate mechanic (which makes sense).

PVE is boring and useless right now. There's just NO reason to engage Zeds, at all.

This would bring a purpose to it.

If dupping/scripting was not possible/removed and we had a fresh-start, I'd expect this type of communities to arise all over the place, even without a spawning rate ratio modifier.

Devil's Castle would probably end up being the prime choice for settling shop and a continuous base in many servers.

Ever played Metro 2033? had a nice ammo economy, right?

Ever played S.T.A.L.K.E.R. SOC? Place like Rostok (think bar, Arena and Duty camp) could grow up, naturally, through sheer player interaction.

Bandits would gain a new purpose too. The actual raiding and banditry of settled outposts.

Heck, I'd probably give banditry a try then.

People often say that Banditry should be restricted and punished.

Banditry should actually be given INCENTIVES.

Current bandits are just killers with no real purpose except maybe getting QQ points.

Killing for the sake of killing is not cool.

Killing you for the sake of that sweet backpack you have is cool.

----

Imagine this scenario:

-So, word is the Devil's Castle Trading Camp found a M107 along with a few mags and they are offering it for trade.

-I'd love to get that gun, what do they want for it?

-Doesn't matter, they don't deal with bandits.

-Man, imagine all the killing we could do with that baby!

-So, we need a plan.

-How about a raid?

-Sound good to me.

-Tell the boys we are raiding Devil's Castle tonight at 2300h

-I'll pass the word

This might even lead to some metagame shenanigans. Having spies in the midst of the bandit groups (or bandit spies on the side of the traders).

If you've ever played EVE Online or maybe just followed some of the news about it, giving players a structured and sensible world without restrictions makes for awesome meta. A thousand players meeting in rookie ships to take down one titan is the example that comes to mind. The Devs themselves were taken aback in awe.

----

I know anything of the sort is currently impossible.

We'd need a hive wipe, a way to restrict all client-side scripts (and to make sure no main-hive servers do any monkey business).

We'd also need a better humanity system (so banditry becomes recognized as what it should be and hero skins become something people vies for).

Maybe also a way to prevent players from hoping from one server to another and back to get past other players fortifications.

Possibly, but it could work without, make changes to the loot system so players can't grind locations or server hop in order to amass high level loot, in good quantity and fast.

^ This! Do it!

[starwarsfan@gmx.de 450]

I really like the idea but I'm not sure how this could really be acomplished with the current hive set up.

Firstly I think for something like what you're describing the map would need to be even bigger, with more players.

Secondly the hive poses a problem in the sense that you can just simply jump from one server to another and never stay on the same one for a longer period of time which makes a truly persistent and consistent world with persistent groups hard to achive. This is somewhat more achivable in the private hive set-up as your character only exists on that one server which forces you to keep playing on that one server because other wise you lose your character and all the progress you made with it.

I love the idea of meta-gaming, as you described it and I hope it will be somewhere down the road for DayZ but with server hopping and the current hive set-up I don't see how it could work out quite like that.

[Valderos 5]

People often say that Banditry should be restricted and punished.

Banditry should actually be given INCENTIVES.

Current bandits are just killers with no real purpose except maybe getting QQ points.

Killing for the sake of killing is not cool.

Killing you for the sake of that sweet backpack you have is cool.

Here's the problem I have with your logic. First, the majority of DayZ in its current form is banditry or scripting. There are very few people playing the game who forge these "alliances" that would be necessary to hold any sort of safe zone. At best, you'd have groups of bandits setting up their own camps. So, casual gamers can forget surviving in your ideal version of this game. The end result of DayZ is that people turn to banditry because they already having all the tools and weapons they want. Once you have all the toys, the only thing left is to turn bandit and make sure no one else can have any toys. Bandits don't kill people for that "sweet backpack", or for that M107 rifle. They kill people because they are there, and because they can. If anything, there should be an incentive to NOT turn bandit. Any idiot with a weapon and superior positioning can become a bandit. The real skill is in surviving without turning bandit.

The scenario you describe of the bandit group planning to raid the safe zone sounds very dramatic, also. It pulled me in, until I realized that this would only work if people were on 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. What is likely to happen, is the bandits would swoop in in their group of four or five guys to find a town with one or two people trying to find some loot, because nobody wants to play a game in which you stand there playing sentry all day. I'm sorry, I just don't see how it would work out. Cool story, though.

Edited September 7, 2012 by Valderos

[Warped_Jack 16]

I like the idea, at the very least just for the idea that zombie spawns should be toned down as more zombies are killed in a given area. Right now it's impossible to approach any situation with a sweep and clear attitude. Even a lone barn in the woods, if you go in all guns blazing to mop up the few zombies present to begin with, more keep phantomly coming. It makes no sense! Clearing an area (to an extent) should be an option.

However, I think long term settlements and decreased zombie spawn rates in said settlements would be a rare thing to see. Other than the ghosting and other problems you'd have currently, it's often just not interesting enough to settle down for a long period of time in one place, especially up North.

... Though, maybe when combined with the underground bunker idea though, that could change

Edited September 7, 2012 by Warped_Jack

[Bearded McGee 121]

Here's the problem I have with your logic. First, the majority of DayZ in its current form is banditry or scripting. There are very few people playing the game who forge these "alliances" that would be necessary to hold any sort of safe zone. At best, you'd have groups of bandits setting up their own camps. So, casual gamers can forget surviving in your ideal version of this game. The end result of DayZ is that people turn to banditry because they already having all the tools and weapons they want.

I'd tell you to read again the OP.

This could NOT be implemented in the current setup.

It's either Standalone material or DayZ would need a major overhaul in terms of functionality.

Banditry as it exist now is NOT banditry, you said it yourself; people kill to kill.

But why? The reason is simple, there's nothing else to do!

There's no economy system of any kind forged by players right now because of the broken game mechanics. Dupping and scripting prevent players from doing anything else but killing other players for the sake of killing other players.

And personally, I don't like the Hive system. It takes for too much exploiting.

So, scratch it out of my suggestions, should have said that.

[Valderos 5]

I'd tell you to read again the OP.

This could NOT be implemented in the current setup.

It's either Standalone material or DayZ would need a major overhaul in terms of functionality.

Banditry as it exist now is NOT banditry, you said it yourself; people kill to kill.

But why? The reason is simple, there's nothing else to do!

There's no economy system of any kind forged by players right now because of the broken game mechanics. Dupping and scripting prevent players from doing anything else but killing other players for the sake of killing other players.

And personally, I don't like the Hive system. It takes for too much exploiting.

So, scratch it out of my suggestions, should have said that.

I re-read the OP, as well as the links you provided. While I like the idea of the dynamic zombie spawn rates, I'm struggling to understand the idea of "incentives for banditry". In my earlier quote, I was taking issue with you stating that banditry should actually be given incentives. Currently, banditry seems to have all the incentives. You can kill someone else and take all their gear. Just because some bandits choose to only kill someone because they are there, doesn't take away the incentive that bandits posess to kill someone for their NVG's, or their coyote backpack. Its a system of greed, and there really is no recourse for murdering someone for their items. I guess, I'm just curious why you think it is necessary to incentivize banditry, and perhaps what type of incentives you are looking for.

I, personally, would rather see incentives for people not to become bandits, as the decision to turn bandit draws upon the very nature of human survival - kill or be killed. It is much more difficult to let your guard down and befriend strangers.

[Laatikkoinen 5]

Shut up and take my beans!

[Zeppa 562]

Why not spawn the zeds outside the city after you enter certain zone.. so you could have a change of clearing the city from zeds and after that they would wander from the woods to the city.

Also many other things should be adjusted for the zeds...

Edited September 11, 2012 by Zeppa

[hoik 415]

Hey, heres an idea for dynamic zombie hordes!

It can be applied to any idea that involves 'zones' or 'regions' whos spawn multiplyer/density can be effected by the players.

- every 24-48 hours a wondering horde of zombies is spawned.

- it will have a max cap, and zombie multiplier just like 'zones'

- the spawn density can be determined by average server PvP (the higher the PvP the larger the initial horde)

- the hordes destination will be the 'zone' with the lowest spawn multiplier! (this indicates that there is high co-operation in this area = a larger population/bases)

- A hordes spawn multiplier is effected by the 'zones' it passes through, EG: 'zones' with a high z-multiplier will add a large no. to the horde multiplier etc.

- Any 'zone' that a horde wonders through gets a reduction in its z-spawns (indicating that a no. of zombies have joined the horde!)

For me a dynamic wondering horde has alot of metagaming possibilities as well as some end(ish) game possibilities. It will become a quick reference for the 'demenor' of the server (a large horde would mean that the server is very agressive).

It will become a dynamic flashpoint for confilict as it will attract players because: The horde will eventually lead players to the areas of high co-operation/bases.

This is attractive to both players who want to co-operate and those that want to kill! It gives highly co-opertative groups an end(ish) game, and aditional reason to clear 'zones' and create bases/fortification.

Edited September 12, 2012 by Hoik

[Bearded McGee 121]

-snip for ease of read-

This is a great idea.

Actually reminds me of 28 Days Later, once the group reach the mansion.

I'd have the wandering horde spawn in any direction from the lowest-rated Z spawn zone and slowly move in toward said zone.

Wandering hordes could also be random events triggered at random intervals and locations where players have been present for a while, includig the wilderness (though, wilderness hordes would be smaller).

[hoik 415]

Thanks, I think this idea has alot going for it as it has the potential for highly varied behavior in both zombies and players. Also because it lowers z-spawn rates in the 'zones' it passes through it could help smaller groups or individuals gain access to areas that have become oversaturated with zombies.

IMO I think that dynamic systems based on causality is the way forward for a truly unique experience in dayZ. Because it is causality it isn't a emotional reaction or a punishment and it implys no judgement of morality - it just is.

The first and last link in my signiture are both on a dynamic theme. The first relates loot density/quality to player actions and the last brings about one inevitable conclusion to dayZ (it is a bit 'borderline' throwing children into the mix, but I think the basis of the idea has some merit).

Edited September 12, 2012 by Hoik

[panthro 0]

this would NOT just go one way there would also be Bandit towns! this would eventually lead to clan's and a fudeal styled clanning of towns.

this would ultimatly end in clan warfare between towns over supplies etc in a Zombie appocolyps.

[Red_Sky 140]

Give the zombies and your interactions with zombies more capability of just punching as well.

Quicktime grabs

Ideas from left 4 dead:

>Breakable doors and large windows

>Damage to repaired vehicles sets off alarms

Ability to knock zombies away with assault rifles and shotguns if they come too close

Stealth kills with a hunting knife if you sneak up on a zed or player and adds a new element to sneaking

>Stealth kills on players probably need a 1-2 second delay to prevent people from just sprinting behind someone, press crouch and spam the button for the one-hit kill.

>Zombies, while unable to kill from one shot unless already injured to an extent, will do more damage and injuries if they grab you from the rear.

If fire is expanded on in the standalone, Zombies that are caught aflame by an explosion or flaming weapon (flamethrower / torch if ever implemented) can set fire to people / certain buildings.

Barns in particular are extra vulnerable to flame.

Whether zeds can be killed by the flame or simply depends on how long it takes to reduce the flesh to ashes is unsure.

Edited September 18, 2012 by Red_Sky

[Zeymere 4]

I like the cause and effect idea. Let’s take it a step further similar to Hoik's idea:

• If players kill more Zombies in an area then that area thins out some.
  
• If Bandits or Zombies kill players in an area then that area increases in Zombie volume.
  

I guess the main problem with the current state for this possibility is that if an area gets to Zombie populated then people will just jump to a different server. But I guess with server restarts the whole timer and spawns could be reset.

(Assuming this isn't already in game, as you can see by my post I am new ;) )

Z.