Blood Vs. Sound - Infected Logic

[The Killing Joke 43]

Let's say that we have Player A, Player B, and Zed Z, standing in a field, such as my poorly constructed diagram shows:

Player A - - - - - Zed Z - - - - - Player B

As you can see, Zed Z is exactly in between Player A and Player B. Now, let's say that Player A shoots Player B. Zed Z is alerted to two things: Player A's location via the sound of the shot, and Player B's location via the smell of the blood from his injury. In this case, I would give a 50/50 chance of which direction Zed Z would go, because of how close he would be to each Player.

Now, consider this:

Player A - - Zed Z - - - - - - - - Player B

In this scenario, Zed Z is much closer to Player A, so the chance of him attacking Player B should be significantly lower, as he is much closer to Player A, and should go after him because of the sound of the shot.

Similarly:

Player A - - - - - - - - Zed Z - - Player B

In this scenario, Zed Z is much closer to Player B, so the chances are greater that he would go after Player B because of the smell of his blood.

I think that this would add some realism to zed activity, especially when you're dealing with groups of zeds. If this was applied to "Zed on Zed" behaviour as well, then you could more effectively deal with zeds by shooting one, and have others attack them rather than home in on your position. (This, specifically, is once they are balanced, of course. Right now, they're too easy.)

I think that this would add a lot to the mod, since right now, it seems silly that a zed will attack you just because of the noise you're making, when a fresh meal may be right beside them.

How would this be cool? Well, let me tell you! Imagine, if you will, that you're a Survivor, and you're tired of taking it on the chin! You see a Bandit approaching your position, very stealthily... You notice hm proning past a couple of zeds. You aim, and shoot the Bandit, wounding him.

The zeds POUNCE! Smelling fresh meat, they rip into him, and he gets up, makes a run for it, and gets taken down...

But that's the idea. And now, onto the ADDED BONUS ROUND!!! (Please find these ideas from others, which help to round out the idea...)

I like the idea' date=' it's logically sound, but getting shot does a dramatic amount of damage, There is little chance you survive a Lee en-field hit little lone, that + zombies.

I think you could go more in depth, for exp,

Player A - - - - - - - - Zed Z - - Player B

Player A is armed with Makarov. 25/75% chance

Player A - - - - - - - - Zed Z - - Player B

Player A armed with lee enfield. 45/55% chance

The loudness of gun shot should play a factor, thus causing stronger guns(by default are louder) don't get a big buff due to this.

Pistol rounds will be low % of aggro

5.56/5.45 will be med % of aggro

7.62+ will be high % of aggro

To clarify:

Player A - - - - - - - - Zed Z - - Player B

Player A is armed with 9mm/.45 cal pistol . 25/75% chance

Player A - - - - - - - - Zed Z - - Player B

Player A armed with 5.56/5.45 rifle. 45/55% chance

Player A - - - - - - - - Zed Z - - Player B

Player A armed with 7.62+ rifle. 65/35% chance

and if player A has a M107 ;) woo!

If this was in place, I think suppressed weapons would have to be fix. Due to the ability to use super sonic ammo in suppressed rifles, the bullet doesn't drop dramatically at 150m. In real life: Sub sonic ammo doesn't travel as far as super sonic ammo :P

but.. Player A - - - - - - - - Zed Z - - Player B

if the distance from Player A to Zed Z is grater then 10m then 0/100%

If the distance is less the 10m 30/70% chance

They would also have to greatly increase the rarity of suppressed guns

Also the cross bow would be 0/100% chance no mater the distance, due to the beaver tail that you can put on the string to completely silence a bow shot.[/quote']

[Strategos (DayZ) 190]

I don't like this idea i'm afraid.

I kind of like the idea of the Z's being attracted to stuff. But I think the gunshot should always override the blood in this scenario. Why ?

Because right now one of the VERY few things that prevents another player from killing a survivor they encounter is the risk of drawing agro from the Z's. If the Z's go for the person you've shot it will encourage even more murder in the game.

[scoffield77@gmail.com 192]

I like the idea, it's logically sound.

but getting shot does a dramatic amount of damage, There is little chance you survive a Lee en-field hit little lone, that + zombies.

I worry this would cause bandits to just set up a base of fire, over watching a town

I think you could go more indept, for exp,

Player A - - - - - - - - Zed Z - - Player B

Player A is armed with Makarov. 25/75% chance

Player A - - - - - - - - Zed Z - - Player B

Player A armed with lee enfield. 45/55% chance

The loudness of gun shot should play a factor, thus causing stronger guns(by default are louder) don't get a big buff due to this

[The Killing Joke 43]

I kind of like the idea of the Z's being attracted to stuff. But I think the gunshot should always override the blood in this scenario. Why? Because right now one of the VERY few things that prevents another player from killing a survivor they encounter is the risk of drawing agro from the Z's. If the Z's go for the person you've shot it will encourage even more murder in the game.

I'm sorry to say' date=' but your answer isn't sound. The devs and players need to work around this. We need the zeds to be more deadly, and definitely smarter. Make them more of a threat to everybody. Saying it encourages more murder, while it may be true, is not a justifiable answer.

It's all about finesse, and how you would use said power.

I like the idea, it's logically sound. But getting shot does a dramatic amount of damage, There is little chance you survive a Lee en-field hit little lone, that + zombies. I worry this would cause bandits to just set up a base of fire, over watching a town.

Very true. I would think that this would help out the starting players more, actually. Someone with a Mak wouldn't be as inept, and possibly eaten, and they certainly wouldn't be forced (like they seem to think they are) into a bigger city to search for a bigger gun.

I think you could go more indept' date=' for exp,

Player A - - - - - - - - Zed Z - - Player B

Player A is armed with Makarov. 25/75% chance

Player A - - - - - - - - Zed Z - - Player B

Player A armed with lee enfield. 45/55% chance

The loudness of gun shot should play a factor, thus causing stronger guns(by default are louder) don't get a big buff due to this.[/quote']

That makes a buttload of sense! I LOVE that idea as well. It definitely levels the playing field a bit more, and would actually make bandit snipers think before they shoot. (See everybody, I'm not just out for the bandits - I'm looking out for you wussy survivors too!)

;)

(Oh come on, that was funny, right there.)

[scoffield77@gmail.com 192]

Pistol rounds will be low % of aggro

5.56/5.45 will be med % of aggro

7.62+ will be high % of aggro

to clarify

Player A - - - - - - - - Zed Z - - Player B

Player A is armed with 9mm/.45 cal pistol . 25/75% chance

Player A - - - - - - - - Zed Z - - Player B

Player A armed with 5.56/5.45 rifle. 45/55% chance

Player A - - - - - - - - Zed Z - - Player B

Player A armed with 7.62+ rifle. 65/35% chance

and if player A has a M107 ;) woo!

[The Killing Joke 43]

You. You there. Go back and review everything this man said. - TKJ Edit

Smart! Now' date=' do [i']silenced weapons.

Yes, that's probably the only thing that people should be able to complain about. Someone, somewhere, sitting at the treeline, picking off people in the legs and watching the zeds pounce on them, since they likely wouldn't have any zed attack them unless they are already behind them.

(And that's why I call into question why people didn't like my idea of randomly spawning zeds when someone is in an area for too long... Think about it. A sniper sitting on the hill for 30 minutes looks over his shoulder, and noticed 4-5 zeds shambling his way over a hill... Makes sense to me. They were drawn by his smell!)

[Strategos (DayZ) 190]

"Saying it encourages more murder, while it may be true, is not a justifiable answer."

Lol its a totally valid point, you even agree apparently.

Plus the zombies hunt primarily by sound and a gunshot is by far the most obvious of the two stimuli.

How do i know they hunt primarily by sound? Because of their response to sound and their response to smell. If you stay totally still you can see how close they have to get before they smell you.

I think zombies should be more attracted to bleeding and coughing players. If a shot player crawled off bleeding they would be at risk of drawing attention. Going for a smell over a sound as loud as a gunshot is hardly "realistic".

I also agree zombies should be more dangerous we just need to find good ways of doing it.

[The Killing Joke 43]

Lol its a totally valid point' date=' you even agree apparently. Plus the zombies hunt primarily by sound and a gunshot is by far the most obvious of the two stimuli. How do i know they hunt primarily by sound? Because of their response to sound and their response to smell. If you stay totally still you can see how close they have to get before they smell you.[/quote']

Well, of course. That's what it is today. I'm suggesting what I would like to see later today.

I think zombies should be more attracted to bleeding and coughing players. If a shot player crawled off bleeding they would be at risk of drawing attention. Going for a smell over a sound as loud as a gunshot is hardly "realistic".

Yes' date=' because if I smell a steak cooking or hear popcorn popping, I'm going to run after the popcorn. [i']WHAT? You had me, and then you lost me. The zeds are looking to feed, and currently they are seeking out loud noises, which makes ZERO sense. Noise should NOT equal food, at least not primarily.

I also agree zombies should be more dangerous we just need to find good ways of doing it.

And my idea is awesome.

:D

[Dinnj 4]

No. It is not a valid point. If you shoot someone from miles off and the zombie is next to them, the zombie should go for them over you. It just makes far more sense. Good idea, TKJ, hadn't thought of this.

I like the concept greatly, but some of the ratios you made in your OP are a bit poor, if I'm honest.

At equal distance the zed should pretty much always go to the shooter imo, unless they have a silenced weapon or something. It would make sense if you were quite far, though.

[Deuzerre 64]

I think I'm not wrong, but aren't infected still humans?

I can't smell blood in relative small amounts (wound) in an open area. I don't imagine the zeds as any better, especially since most of them have some all over their face.

They are not sharks, they're infected humans, and a bit nasty on the edges. But not radars for blood.

[scoffield77@gmail.com 192]

You. You there. Go back and review everything this man said. - TKJ Edit

Smart! Now' date=' do [i']silenced weapons.

Lol, that's funny.

If this was in place, I think suppressed weapons would have to be fix. Due to the ability to use super sonic ammo in suppressed rifles, the bullet doesn't drop dramatically at 150m. In real life: Sub sonic ammo doesn't travel as far as super sonic ammo :P

but.. Player A - - - - - - - - Zed Z - - Player B

if the distance from Player A to Zed Z is grater then 10m then 0/100%

If the distance is less the 10m 30/70% chance

They would also have to greatly increase the rarity of suppressed guns

Also the cross bow would be 0/100% chance no mater the distance, due to the beaver tail that you can put on the string to completely silence a bow shot.

[The Killing Joke 43]

I like the concept greatly' date=' but some of the ratios you made in your OP are a bit poor, if I'm honest.[/quote']

If you note the quote from my unedited, yet strangely clairvoyant original post, you will see the words, "poorly constructed diagram" there. Yes, I knew it was bad. More over, I knew you were going to call me on it.

[insert spooky music here]

:D

Thank you for the input! I do actually like this idea. It makes sense, and isn't overly favouring any specific play style. I figure, if you have the ability to give aggro to someone, then it should be within your realm of opportunity to do so.

(Right now, I find it aggravating that if you have a zed horde following you, and you're not injured, even if you run up to another player - injured or not - they don't take your aggro unless they start shooting at the zeds you have. It's like an undead umbilical cord you can't cut. In my solution, there should at least be a chance that some of them peel off and attack someone else, if you run up and shoot them.)

[scoffield77@gmail.com 192]

Add my idea's to the OP if you really like them =)

[Strategos (DayZ) 190]

Yeah if you are miles away they don't hear the gunshot anyway, that's fine. If you are out of earshot , of course they should go for the blood.

"Yes, because if I smell a steak cooking or hear popcorn popping, I'm going to run after the popcorn. WHAT? You had me, and then you lost me. The zeds are looking to feed, and currently they are seeking out loud noises, which makes ZERO sense. Noise should NOT equal food, at least not primarily."

That analogy is terrible. Seriously even if your point was valid your killing it there lol. Popcorn is not as loud as a gun, and popcorn smells pretty damn good id go for the smell of that over steak myself ;p

The human olfactory system is no where near as sensitive as our hearing so it seems pretty realistic that the Zs would be more attracted to sound to me. Even in wild animals with incredible noses you'd see more reaction to a gunshot than a smell. Its obviously a more dramatic stimulus.

"It's like an undead umbilical cord you can't cut. In my solution, there should at least be a chance that some of them peel off and attack someone else, if you run up and shoot them"

this is a problem that comes from the zombie mechanics themselves, the Z's are clearly too tenacious and single minded and they should be possible to distract.

Personally I think that Z's should go to the sources of sound , once they get closer the sense of smell / sight takes over (unless you keep making sounds). So you COULD shoot someone in the legs, the sound would attract the zombies to that point, then as they got closer you could creep off and the blood would be the thing they went for. Or if you were being chased around a corner the z.s would chase you to where they last saw you, then use their sense of smell / sound sight to try and relocate you. If you are bleeding they could follow that trail but if u run past a bleeding guy they would stop and eat them instead.

[The Killing Joke 43]

Add my idea's to the OP if you really like them =)

So added! (I even left your name on them!)

;)

[scoffield77@gmail.com 192]

I think I'm not wrong' date=' but aren't infected still humans?

I can't smell blood in relative small amounts (wound) in an open area. I don't imagine the zeds as any better, especially since most of them have some all over their face.

They are not sharks, they're infected humans, and a bit nasty on the edges. But not radars for blood.

[/quote']

I can smell blood/wounds for the record ;)

At least I can with deer.

and being infected =/= being bloody. through the skins are like that, you catch a cold(a infection) you don't become bloody just magically

[The Killing Joke 43]

That analogy is terrible. Seriously even if your point was valid your killing it there lol. Popcorn is not as loud as a gun' date=' and popcorn smells pretty damn good id go for the smell of that over steak myself.[/quote']

It was more for comedic effect. As it is, I'd go for both. I like steak and popcorn. It might just be the butter, which makes both awesome.

The human olfactory system is no where near as sensitive as our hearing so it seems pretty realistic that the Zs would be more attracted to sound to me. Even in wild animals with incredible noses you'd see more reaction to a gunshot than a smell. Its obviously a more dramatic stimulus.

Yes' date=' but usually they're [i']running the other way. If you're going to make the realism connection, at the very least, make a gunshot have a chance at scaring the zeds away. (Wouldn't that be a fun game? LOL.)

[Strategos (DayZ) 190]

lol your being deliberately obtuse i'm sure. The point is that a loud gunshot is a more dramatic stimulus. Whether it invokes a fight or flight response is irrelevant.

Its hard to talk realism when the Z's don't see very well, it seems like the virus inhibits their sight but leaves their hearing intact. In the end these are arbitrary decisions and I think in many ways we are o the same page.

a: Make zombies go for bleeding characters more.

b: Make zombies less single minded so you can lose them.

Id like to see them go to sources of sounds and smells rather than individual people ... forever.

The only thing I don't like is you idea that if a Z was stood between two players it would go for the smell over the sound.

[scoffield77@gmail.com 192]

I think STrategos is asking for distence to be a factor (witch I agree with)

Decibel + distance vs. Smell + sight.

[The Killing Joke 43]

Its hard to talk realism when the Z's don't see very well' date=' it seems like the virus inhibits their sight but leaves their hearing intact. In the end these are arbitrary decisions and I think in many ways we are on the same page.[/quote']

I do agree with you, and I think the issue is with how each one of us views why the infected do what they do. I'm more "George Romero" and you're more "28 Days Later". (That's gonna come back and bite me on the ass, I'm sure, since I think Rocket himself has said he favours the latter.)

Id like to see them go to sources of sounds and smells rather than individual people ... forever. The only thing I don't like is you idea that if a Z was stood between two players it would go for the smell over the sound.

Your opinion is noted! I think you're right' date=' as Bullfrog has also pointed out that my original idea needs 'work'... In the original '50/50 scenario', it should (in my opinion) maybe be tipped more in favour of sound... So, maybe 70/30? In a horde of 10 scenario, that would mean 7 equally placed zeds may attack the shooter, while 3 may attack the victim.

Are we getting closer to a better vision of this? Do you have any other ideas or criticism? (I'm [i']totally open to it, by the way.)

I think STrategos is asking for distence to be a factor (witch I agree with) Decibel + distance vs. Smell + sight.

100% agreed, within defined parameters.

[Strategos (DayZ) 190]

As rocket also said he though the suggestions forum was useless we could def be on a hiding to nothing :)

One of the things I like about Dayz is that he will do what he wants and I think I trust his decisions.

Still its fun to thrash these things out.

[scoffield77@gmail.com 192]

As rocket also said he though the suggestions forum was useless we could def be on a hiding to nothing :)

One of the things I like about Dayz is that he will do what he wants and I think I trust his decisions.

Still its fun to thrash these things out.

huh?

[The Killing Joke 43]

huh?

I believe he was saying, "it's possible that Rocket reads our ideas, and it's also possible that he'll just do what he wants anyway, but it's definitely fun to throw ideas out there, regardless of the outcome."

Or something like that.

[eddie820 2]

Sound travels faster than smell, unless you are a dog or something.

[The Killing Joke 43]

Sound travels faster than smell' date=' unless you are a dog or something.[/quote']

Thanks, I think? Regardless, I believe we're really considering the zeds motivation, which in my opinion, would mean a good meal. Sure, a gunshot would likely be easier to detect than a guy farting six feet from you. Nobody's disputing that. It's more of the nuance of "hey, I smell something, let's investigate!" over "hey, that was a loud, disruptive noise, I'mma check it out!"