Incentives to Cooperative Play

[Cooper42 0]

I agree with all of this. There's no advantage to NOT shooting other players' date=' so everyone plays the game like CoD and shoot on sight. I always try to talk to players near me, tell them I won't shoot, ask if they need help etc. The results the first few weeks of alpha: some really nice groups helping each other out. The results the last two weeks: every single person, without exception, just immediately shot me.[/quote']^ This

The last time I had a decent experience with a stranger was in the dead of night. I was almost dead due to a loot spawning bug which had left me dehydrated and unable to find drinks. I found some soda in a supermarket where I bumped into a styranger. I asked him to give me a transfusion with one of my blood packs, offered him one in return. He did the deed and we went our separate ways.

Chances of that happening now: Zero.

I realise I was lucky to find a decent guy willing to help out, but we'rer a dying breed.

DayZ should not be locked off to only those who have the backing of a clan or other internet community. There have been many good reasons posted here as to why people are not playing with their friends. There are other good reasons as to why people play on their own without a teamspeak full of people they know.

[ChiefMasterKush 321]

Civilization is ours for the making, we just have to put in the arduous work of putting it together. I have already seen threads of medic corps and S.A.R. groups willing to help the anonymous usually for no fee at all. They just want to keep the few survivors left alive.

I understand that the game is still in a constant state of change. As such will be difficult to make any kind of major progress toward such an ultimate goal.

[Max Railgrave 78]

IMO, DayZ is not a game ideal for making new friends via the Internet. It is, however, a fantastic game to play with friends and family you already have.

However, the rare internet friend you DO make in DayZ is likely to be a comrade for a while.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

No' date=' not even then. Your entire list of benefits assumes that the people you bring into the game are VERY good at it.[/quote']

No, it really doesn't. I don't consider myself "very" good at the game by any means. I never played ARMA 2. I played OFP but that was ages ago. The people I play with are almost completely fresh to the game as well. We get by playing smart, not by being experts at anything in particular. Or even very good shots for that matter...

I've tried bringing my friends into this game...stupidity...handicaps...metallica blaring...stoner...eye damage...Not one of them can last more than an hour without me there to guide them.

Okay? So, I'm not sure what you're saying here other than you have some really suspect friends? Do you expect/hope that the game will change in such a way that people like this can play it and be successful?

I guess I can't figure out what you're driving at. Your friends suck at DayZ. Okay. Either find different people to play with, or find a different game to play with those friends. Otherwise I guess you're suggesting rocket dumb down the design of the game until your pack of ne'er-do-well, mouth-breathing idiot friends can thrive and populate the world?

This is all wishful thinking. I understand it, the stories of on the fly cooperation, avoiding bandits, and tense standoffs that were thrown around on Kotaku, videos on youtube, that's what got me into it. That's what I was hoping to see.

That's one of the people I play with. I have had two (2) survivors in that same amount of time - one alive for 19 days and my current survivor on day 12.

We have seen all that and more. We have repaired ~4 vehicles and stolen 3-4 others, some fully loaded with fuel, gear and equipment. We have traversed the map multiple times, sometimes traveling in groups as large as 6 but often just as a pair. We have had incredibly tense standoffs and extremely tense situations.

Last time we stopped for gas, in fact, I was jumped from behind by a player I didn't see in the field behind me. I was at 3400 blood and unconscious bleeding to death. My partner came in guns blazing, killed my assailant, stopped my bleeding at 2400 blood, gave me a transfusion and then succeeded in defending me for the remaining ~90 seconds of unconsciousness I had to wait through becasue we didn't have an epi-pen. We killed one additional bandit and got away with fuel and our fully loaded UAZ. It was one of the single most intensely emotional experiences I have ever had in a video game in my entire life, and I have been gaming pretty much every day since Commodore 64 was all the rage.

The game is what you make it, man. You hang out with idiots and you're disappointed that you have an idiotic experience in the game? What do you expect? Surround yourself with people who want to play the game the way you do. This has always been necessary since the days when all we could do was get together to play board games - they're more fun when you're playing with people you know and trust and if you don't have those kinds of relationships with anyone who plays and this game encourages you to go out there and MAKE those friendships and connections well then rocket will have achieved something amazing don't you think?

All that potential wonderful human drama just gets splattered across the floor and walls. Killing someone on here is not interesting, nor does it weigh on your conscience

See, now. You're wrong again. Why do you assume that your own personal subjective emotional reactions to the things that happen in the game are universal? Don't you think that's arrogant? Don't you think it might be a bit of an enormous consensus bias on your part? I have had emotional reactions to killings in the game. Times when I have been surprised to turn around and see a survivor nearby where I wasn't expecting one and in my panic firing and second-guessing the decision afterward. Regretting that I didn't hesitate even a little in the moment of panic. Thinking about his journey back to where we are and how much time I might have cost them. Maybe you don't consider those things and reflect upon them. I do.

Again, we see a running theme. The game is what YOU make it. It's not going to be gift-wrapped and hand packaged for you with a bunch of icons and blinking arrows and sound effects and achievements and I know you're not asking for these things nor would you want them but just for dramatic effect you have to consider that DayZ is setting itself apart in so many ways like this. No in-game communication - almost unprecedented in an online game. Permanent death - how many games this popular can pull that off? Unrestricted PvP in what feels like an almost MMO environment? Even the MMOs who tried to do that couldn't really pull it off the way rocket has with this simple mod that's only in Alpha.

But if you approach it like every other game and just ho-hum your way through and expect it to jump out at the screen and shit zombie awesome sauce all over your face then I don't think it's going to happen. YOU have to involve yourself more deeply in the game. Again, if that means finding a new group of people to hang out with - give it a try. It sounds like your friends are dickheads anyway.

Realism's not the be-all end-all of this mod, just see my sig.

I think realistic human emotions are the most important part of this mod. The mechanics themselves need not be realistic, but as near as I can tell the point of the mod is to put you into extreme situations that compel you to think, act, and behave in ways that might not necessarily be fully within your normal zone of comfort and expectation.

You want to communicate? Figure it out. You want safe zones? Figure out how to make them. You want punishments for rampant PvP? Go guerilla on the bandits - set traps, steal vehicles, and take them out before they take you out. Die too often in Cherno/Elektro? Stop going there. Nights too dark? No, don't just turn your gamma up. Not allowed anymore. Figure it out.

But as nice as it is, it's completely unrealistic for most people. Half of it is all these situations that hardly ever happen, and the other half would require that you're part of the biggest group on the server and you're essentially running the place.

This is complete hogwash. I am "most people." I have a job, a family, other hobbies. I don't play DayZ 14 hours a day and I'm not in a clan or a posse. I play with 2-3 other friends occasionally. But we all play to survive. We travel together, move carefully, coordinate our efforts, utilize tents and vehicles to our advantage, etc. We plan ahead nights when we play so that we're never doing anything dangerous alone. We cover each other and never leave people behind. And combined in our group we have had 2 deaths in the last 31 days of the game.

You don't need a large group to be an imposing force. 2 or 3 people is sufficient - if you play intelligently. Don't stand on top of each other everywhere you go - so you are all basically one target. Spread out. Take turns raiding buildings while others stay outside. When you're traveling through the wilderness - fan out at least 200m apart so you can scan more area and aren't all vulnerable to a single grenade or one clip of assault rifle ammo. If one person is raiding a grocery store, leave the other out back to watch for approaching players.

I'm not going to make the whole list again. It's right up there at the top of the thread. Nearly all of the goals I listed can be accomplished by two people working together. And they don't need to be some kind of wizened ARMA experts either.

Until then the status remains quo, communication and cooperation will still be almost nonexistent.

Cooperation will always be nonexistent if you don't take responsibility for it yourself.

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[fml 29]

There doesn't need to be incentives for co-operation. Co-operation is an incentive in itself.

[Ejaculacid 19]

Even if there was an incentive for co-op play they'd just be more murders to be committed in one square mile :D

[septuscap 42]

Sounds great' date=' but if you don't have any IRL friends playing, making "friends" in this game is very difficult.

[/quote']

Find a group here.

Or help these guys here.

Or join any # of servers with teamspeaks for friendlies.

The problem is, you aren't approaching from a position of strength. You see, the game as it stands presents you with an issue -- you're either going to come across a bandit, or a friendly so scared he'll open up on you. Friendlies know this which compounds the reflex to simply KOS.

If you stalk a player, you can find out very quickly what kind of player he is. Once you have reason to suspect he's friendly, you can approach from from a position of strength. This will telegraph to the friendly that you COULD have killed him but DIDN'T, the sign of a friendly.

Initial hurdle passed.

[duddbudda 33]

ZdB has put together a comprehensive thread laying out and defending the advantages and pleasures of group play

but I read the whole thread and I leave depressed: so many responses that determinedly refuse the truth of his words, for reasons. I never thought I'd empathise with Jehova's Witnesses...

Kolchak, imma have to make you tear up

you see, I run in just such a group every day, we've got brits, scots, germans, danes, a lithuanian, a couple of american vets... and we all met in game

half the group formed on my second night in Chern: I sat on a crane and threw flares to lure the nubs

over a quarter hour, half a dozen makarovers stumbled onto the dock, killing each others' pursuing zeds and swapping names

after things quietened down, I descended; a torch-bearing messiah come to throw back the night, dispense fully automatic justice from my M4A3 and lead them to the promised land, to Balota airfield for lootz

and now we got each others' backs

[to mitigate the self-aggrandisment: I was a total noob, I had just found a rad gun and my excited naïveté encouraged me to share - I didn't realise the risk until I had six fresh spawns gawping at the M4A3 saying 'I want that gun' :p]

and Kolchak, you shouldn't look at handicapped veterans and addled stoners as dead weight, you should delight in every success and make every adventure into your own Forrest Gump

ZdB might like to add:

- when one spawns 22km NW of 0 0, another will run/ride/drive/fly from Cap Kratoy to deliver food and water before the glitch-ee starves out in the wastes

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

A new one to add that has been coming up a lot for us lately: the ability to control more than one vehicle.

The higher-capacity vehicles are often slower and use more fuel.

Our team sends a "jerry can strike team" out on a faster, off-road capable vehicle in order to retrieve fuel and return to the larger, lumbering beast of a machine and fuel it up.

Often the quicker vehicle can make multiple trips before the larger reaches our ultimate destination.

A secondary benefit is that any attack that might destroy a vehicle isn't going to kill your entire team in one go.

[davidcastle 19]

At least once per day I see someone post a comment to the effect of there being "no reason to cooperate" or "no benefit to grouping up." I grow weary of posting these reasons as a response time and time again' date=' so I am creating a thread to which I can link in the future. It should also serve as an aggregate for ideas on cooperative play - if you have your own that I have not listed here, please add them in the thread and I will update the list as time goes on.

Understand that I am not suggesting the game is "complete" with respect to cooperative play and I certainly welcome the addition of new, more complex mechanics that facilitate cooperation - such as fortifying positions, taking over settlements to establish outposts, etc. I am simply providing these as a counter to the people who claim that there are currently "no" reasons to do so - often followed quickly by a claim that this is the reason behind the rampant murder or wanton PvP in the game.

I welcome everyone to post links to this thread in response to these claims moving forward.

[hr']

• If you fall unconscious in battle, a friend can apply an Epi-Pen and revive you.
  
• If you are low on blood, a friend can apply a blood transufion to completely heal you.
  
• If you are losing blood in battle, a friend can continue to fire on incoming zombies or players while you bandage - or, in groups of 3+, one player can receive a tranfusion from a second while a third continues firing.
  
• Looting towns can severely limit your visibility and awareness while you are among the tall buildings, walls and fences. Ask friends to take high ground near town and watch for approaching players with binoculars or rifle scopes.
  
• Looting building interiors severely limits your awareness and visibility. Ask a friend to remain outside and watch the door while you go in to loot. Best when combined with a third player on high ground near town.
  
• Managing your inventory or reading the map leaves you vulnerable; have a friend watch your back while you do so.
  
• Setting up a camp fire, harvesting wood and cooking takes time, exposes your position with light, sound and smoke, and can leave you vulnerable. Have friends cover you while you prepare dinner for the group.
  
• Weapons in the game have wide ranging effective ranges and varying degress of ammo rarity. Have some friends carry close range weapons (shotguns, SMGs), others carry medium range (AK, M16) and at least one with long range (DMR, CZ 550, etc.). This will make you an effective fighting force at a variety of ranges; alone with a shotgun, you are a sitting duck against anyone with a medium/long range weapon.
  
• Mix and match ammo types among your group - don't carry the same primary or secondary weapons; this will allow you to take maximum advantage of ammo you find. No more leaving precious rounds behind, someone in your group can use it.
  
• Inventory space is very limited, even with larger backpacks. Carrying sufficient food, water, ammunition and secondary items like smoke and frag grenades often leaves precious little room for medical supplies like blood bags and epi-pens. Appoint a member of your group as the medic and ask that he sacrifice firepower in exchange for inventory space dedicated to these precious supplies.
  
• Vehicle parts occupy a huge amount of inventory space, and repairing a vehicle leaves you very vulnerable to attack. Appoint multiple people to carry various parts, and establish a "pit crew" style repair strategy which allows you to quickly, efficiently and safely repair and refuel a vehicle in short order.
  
• When using a vehicle to travel, stopping to loot a building can leave your vehicle vulnerable to enemy fire or theft. Leave at least one friend behind to guard your wheels while you set off in search of loot.
  
• Should you fall in battle, ask your friends to guard the corpse and await your return - or, alternatively, loot the "good stuff" and set off to meet you when you spawn.
  
• Should you fall in battle, friends can use a vehicle to pick you up and drive you back to base - rearming and re-equipping yourself much more quickly after death than would otherwise be possible and getting you right back in the action.
  
• You don't always need a large group to loot a single town - you can increase loot efficiency by splitting up into teams and simultaneously looting different towns or hitting a different circuit of deer stands; return at the end of the mission and share/store all of the great loot you found!
  
• Finding rare vehicle parts like engines or main rotor assemblies is very difficult on your own. With a larger group hitting more industrial sites, you can gather the materials necessary to repair a vehicle fully in much less time than you would have alone.
  
• The appearance of a large group can ward off potential agressors. If you are alone and someone spies you from afar, they will likely track and potentially murder you. If they see you with 4+ friends, they might decide to stay quiet and leave you alone.
  
• Sheer firepower - no brainer. More guns means more bullets means less enemies to worry about.
  
• Throwing a frag grenade can often leave you vulnerable to arms fire. To maximize the effectiveness of grenades, have a friend lay down covering fire while you lob the grenade.
  
• Friends can provide distractions for other players. If you suspect a player might be present very near you, try and coax him into revealing his position by asking a friend to fire off some makarov rounds at a medium, safe distance. The player will likely think "That was far away, let me investigate" and you will get the drop on him.
  
• Friends can provide distractions for zombies. If you want to loot a town but are short on time due to approaching players or because you are low on ammo or food/water, have a friend draw the zombies away using gunfire or, ideally, a loud, fast vehicle navigating through town honking the horn and dragging all the zombies away like lemmings.
  
• Friends can play while you are not. This increases your loot, survival gear and equipment gathering potential. If you log out low on AKM ammo, you might be pleasantly surprised when you login the next day and your buddy says "Hey, I found some of that AKM ammo you were looking for!" With a common tent, you don't even have to find each other to exchange items.
  
• Friends are eyes in the back of your head. If you are held down in a structure with two, three or more entrances you can only cover one at a time on your own. Having additional eyes and hands to cover the other avenues of approach increases your survival chances exponentially.
  
• General equipment sharing is more important than you might think. "Opps, I just used my last bandage/food/water" goes from a potentially deadly situation to just a minor inconvenience when you have friends with you.
  
• Helicopter pilots need gunners in order to be maximally effective.
  
• You will probably find a natural division of varied skill levels among your group of friends - some people will be great snipers, others good with short range weapons. Some will know certain towns or terrain better than you do. Maybe some are great pilots for when you finally find that huey? You're probably not amazing at everything - so surrounding yourself with others is a great way to round out your available skill set.
  
• Just having people around to chat and joke with makes the game much more enjoyable, intense, emotional and sometimes heartbreaking. Alone, you will never save your friends life nor he yours. You will never accidentally shoot your friend in the back and have to apologize profusely while bandaging him. You won't make jokes to take the edge off a tense situation. Nobody will be around to say "Nice shot!" when you spike that 400m shot on the money. In short, as in real life, friends are nice to have around even if they're not currently doing anything to help you personally.
  

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I don't even see it as survivor and bandits. I just see it more as make friends with who you want and be better at surviving than other groups. Survivor or bandit its fun to just fight others. For example the group i play with has been fighting to hold berezino for a while and it's been pretty fun to see other groups try to take us out.

[rotekz 18]

There are indeed many reasons to co-operate. Unfortunately nearly everyone will shoot you on sight or in the back of the head for your gear, to protect theirs or just for the lulz. Until there is a deterrent to murder nothing will change.

Nearly everyone likes co-op play. You are preaching to the converted. The game simply does not make approaching strangers a realistic option right now. Unless you want to die that is....

[Uuni 74]

Nice list, definitely makes me appreciate my friends more

[Steve McAwesome 6]

Exactly what I've been saying all along! It's not desthmatch, it's team deathmatch! In otherwords, simply adding more options for teamplay will not stop the murders.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

Unfortunately nearly everyone will shoot you on sight or in the back of the head for your gear' date=' to protect theirs or just for the lulz. Until there is a deterrent to murder nothing will change.[/quote']

Why is that unfortunate? That's literally the reason why all of these cooperative elements are so important - find a small group you can trust to defend you against all those you cannot.

If you take away the wanton murder, all of the points I made become moot. Who cares if someone is watching your back all the time if nobody is actually threatening to shoot that back? There's no point watching something that's not in danger. Might as well go watch grass grow.

[zipper 69]

Been looking for this post for a couple days now. People could use a reminder on the advantages of playing in a group.

[supasam 1]

Sounds great, but if you don't have any IRL friends playing, making "friends" in this game is very difficult.

I have tried reaching out to 6+ people in the week I've been playing and guess what? I was shot by each and every one of them. If you can find an ally, that's fantastic. But for those like myself, this is a very difficult proposition. Also, half the things you list can probably be condensed into one line. Example: Epi-pen, Bandages, Bloodpacks, etc > Render First Aid. I appreciate you trying to counter all the "whiners" like myself out there, but your list looks like you intentionally broke it up to make it appear larger (and hence, showing more benefits of cooperation) than there really are in this game.

TL;DR

Teaming up is great. Getting a team of strangers to cooperate together without dying in the process is easier said than done.

Im in the exact same position myself but ive always been quite shy and reluctant to talk threw a mic aswell which is why i havnt joined any of the clans that are recruiting at the moment :(