Ideas: Bloodtypes and changes to wildlife, Epi-pen and Matches

[Teos (DayZ) 14]

First of, hi, I'm fairly new to this game having played it about 1 week ... however there is already a few things I would like to see in this game:

Blood & Bloodtypes

-- Blood as it is now in the game to me is overpowered in the extreme and makes a no-brainer out of a very complex subject.

1. Split bloodbags into being bloodtype specific (O-Neg ofcourse can be universally applied much like the bloodbags as they are now).

O+ 36%

A+ 28%

B+ 20%

AB+ 5%

O- 4%

A- 4%

B- 2%

AB- 1%

2. Assign bloodtype to players when they spawn (This should be unknown to the player and equal the percentage chances of the bloodbags).

3. Add "Blood typing kits" as one use items which can be used to get the players bloodtype (Hospitals (rare) and H-tents (common) only)

4. Give bloodbags 2 states "cold" and "Heated"

A. Giving cold blood to a patient would induce shock and leave the person unconsious for X?X minutes.

B. Blood can be "Heated" at heatsource (fireplace, oil can) and would degenerate to cold in 3-5 minutes.

5. Make blood giving take X?X minutes, in real life this would take est. 30-45 minutes, that might be overdoing it :)

6. Make blood transfusion cure varied health

A. 6000 restored if heated and of correct bloodtype (3000 if cold)

B. 4000 restored if heated and of O-neg type (Unless patient is O-neg in which case 6000 is restored)

C. Cold blood restores only 25% of health stated in A & B and if wrong type as in D would double damage.

D. Giving wrong blood type in transfusion causes X?X minutes of shock and damages patient for 2000 (4000 if blood is cold)

Matches

-- Where I am (Denmark) considering the amount of smokers there are or people with wood burning furnaces and people who use candles the sheer rarity of matches is mindboggling considering that a backwater country like *Chernarus would have even more wood burning, smokers and candle/torch users.

1. Introduce "Lighters" which have 1-4 uses, would be common, est. atleast 1 per house spawn.

2. Redesign "Matches" to have 5-10 uses, should be uncommon, est. 1 per 3 house spawns.

Wildlife

-- Wildlife as they are are extremely unrealistic and should be modified to be atleast semi realistic

1. "Wild Boar" have exceptional hearing and this should be reflected in game (Right now you can just run up to a wild boar and whack it with an axe)

A. A Boar which hears you will run away, at around 45 kmh.

B. A Boar which gets wounded will charge (30ish kmh)

2. "Sheep" should be more squeamish and prone to running away when they see/hear people running.

3. "Cows" should be more squeamish and prone to running away when they see/hear people running, the cow however should most likely stop after running est. 50 meters (As a domestic cow does, atleast the ones I have worked with (Jersey and black spotted races common in Danish agriculture)).

A. Walking and crouch running should not cause the cow to flee.

4. "Goats" should be more squeamish and prone to running away when they see/hear people, regardless of stance of human.

5. "Black bears" Introduce the Asian Black Bear as a rare critter found only in woodland (Not near towns, zombies) the black bear should be aggresive and dangerous just as in real life (average hearing, poor eyesight, exceptional sense of smell; so it should spot us unwashed survivors long before we spot them)

Epi-pen

-- The use of Epi-pens in real life have certain side-effects which could easily be reflected in DayZ

1. After having recieved Epi-pen treatment the target should have the "shakes" for X?X minutes

2. After having recieved Epi-pen treatment the target should have the heartbeat sound play for X?X minutes (As with low blood)

...

Troll away, or be constructive.

[Nick2389 54]

Sounds like a good idea to me. It would expand on the Medical & Survival sides of the game without making it too over complicated :thumbsup:

I would end up always forgetting to heat my Blood Packs though lol!

[IIxSubmarinex 13]

Very good idea, hard to do but good, i saw where you said 4000-6000 health, i find that not much not to mention the trouble to get the correct one, you could just cook some meat ? +1

[Teos (DayZ) 14]

Very good idea, hard to do but good, i saw where you said 4000-6000 health, i find that not much not to mention the trouble to get the correct one, you could just cook some meat ? +1

True, however instant full health from ANY bloodbag, right now bloodbags to me are overpowered (or unrealistic atleast) ... also if changes are made to the wildlife system as suggested above getting meat wont be all that easy as wildlife will run away or in the case of bears and wild boars actually try to kill you (And succeed in many cases).

Futhermore it would give snipers something better to do with their bullets (kill wildlife safely) rather than Lol-killing fresh spawns from the woods (Where the bears and boars would also add the tension of risking a pummeling if you stay in the woods for too long)

Edited September 1, 2012 by Teos

[Mos1ey 6301]

I like the wildlife AI changes, minus the bear. I don't like the blood types idea, this would give some players an advantage over others therefore isn't fair. Having to warm the blood bags sounds like a nice idea to nerf them slightly though.

[Bludy 324]

really really nice! and to the most skeptics: consider that most of the time you search for bloodbags you are in a hospital where there is plenty of them..so just pick up your type..after having discovered your type with a kit!

then improving the behaviour of animals is a good idea and i hope it will be done in standalone..

[Frozen (DayZ) 144]

Blood & Bloodtypes

no to bloodtypes, because people will suicide to get AB group, rendering whole concept useless.

nerfing bloodbags is the only option to keep all logical and balanced.

reduce amount of blood and add status that prevents blood receiving from bloodbag for certain amount of time, and it will be fine.

Matches

you probably never used matchbox or a lighter. they has a lot of uses, and assuming life time in dayz, it would be fair to say that they have unlimited amount of uses.

[Johnny_Pfosten 18]

I agree with your suggestions about matches, wildlife and epinephrine but not for the blood/-types.

Blood is overpowered at the moment, I agree with that, but implementing different types of blood and cold/warm transfusions with different outcomes of the treatment is just way to much IMO. If you want to implement those kind of more realistic stuff then you have to go further (e.g. a player drawing blood from himself to give it to another player etc.) but it will get to complex. So maybe a bloodbag should just increase your blood for a random value between 4000 to 6000.

Edited September 1, 2012 by Johnny_Pfosten

[Bearded McGee 121]

All in except not knowing your blood type.

I know mine and everybody should know theirs.

Okay with random blood type but no for not knowing which.

Otherwise, totally okay with this.

[Photolysis 25]

Adding bloodtypes is stupid and as stated would cause people to suicide to get AB. O- is kept around in hospitals and suchlike because it can be quickly used in an emergency without having to test for compatibility. It's not a huge break from reality that it's the only blood type around.

As for heating it in a fireplace, that's an excellent way to melt the plastic, contaminate it, and overheat it, denaturing it. Plus if you want it to take time to increase the realism, in reality this would allow the temperature difference to be largely negated. Transfusions and saline drips are not heated in the real world either, and it doesn't cause patients to go into shock. You're not flushing the entire circulatory system with 15C fluid in a few seconds.

On the subject of blood at least, your ideas are pretty bad.

[Teos (DayZ) 14]

Adding bloodtypes is stupid and as stated would cause people to suicide to get AB. O- is kept around in hospitals and suchlike because it can be quickly used in an emergency without having to test for compatibility. It's not a huge break from reality that it's the only blood type around.

As for heating it in a fireplace, that's an excellent way to melt the plastic, contaminate it, and overheat it, denaturing it. Plus if you want it to take time to increase the realism, in reality this would allow the temperature difference to be largely negated. Transfusions and saline drips are not heated in the real world either, and it doesn't cause patients to go into shock. You're not flushing the entire circulatory system with 15C fluid in a few seconds.

Its true that emergency units have some O-neg on stock, however when time allows it it is more likely that people are tested for type and thusly given the correct bloodtype, as O-neg only accounts for 4,33% (Source: Wikipedia) of the world population an assumption that endless supplies of O-neg to be available would be naive at best, as the donors available would mean if randomality is counted that O-neg donors account for between 0,1-9% of the available blood.

Lets assume blood types was implemented as stated in the original post: Would you seriously have me believe that people would create a character, go through the trouble of finding a typing kit and then continuedly commit suicide until they get an AB positive character? I cannot in my wildest dreams imagine that people would spend 2-15 with each character to check bloodtype and then kill themselves if they dont fit in the magic 5% group, that means that you would kill yourself 19 out of 20 times???

Also lets imagine a blood transfusion in Dayz as it is, my buddy gets ventilated by zombies/bullets, were outside, its night, its cold, its raining ... are you telling me I can pump a pint in him cold with no trouble? No chance, qoute Ballya Healthcare (http://www.ballya.biz/bloodwarmer.html):

---Low temperature transfusion may slow down the metabolism of the body, and it is easy to cause syndrome of hypodynamia, ague, spasm of blood vessel muscle, arthrosis ache and stomachache

---Low temperature transfusion slows down the medicine metabolic speed and affects anti-infection ability of the body..

---Low temperature transfusion may cause blood platelet function disordered, coagulation activity damaged and blood viscosity increased. Test proves that once the temperature declines by 1 degree, blood viscosity increases by 2%- 3%.

---After low temperature transfusion, oxygen consumption and carbon dioxide creation declines, myocardial ischemia may occur to the patients with coronary heart disease because arterial oxygenation declines. Symptoms, such as, sleepiness, clumsiness, metal disorder, easy agitation, slowing down or even stopping of breath and heartbeat will occur to some patients.

--- Low temperature transfusion affects the cardiovascular function, leading to the heart rate, and cardiac output declined, systemic vascular resistance and central venous pressure increased,. The symptoms of heart rate abnormal, ventricular vibration and sinus arrest occur as well.

--- Low temperature transfusion restrains pulmonary vascular contraction, increases pulmonary vascular resistance and reduces renal blood flow. It damages urine concentration and dilution function, which significantly affects breath and renal function

[Frozen (DayZ) 144]

Lets assume blood types was implemented as stated in the original post: Would you seriously have me believe that people would create a character, go through the trouble of finding a typing kit and then continuedly commit suicide until they get an AB positive character? I cannot in my wildest dreams imagine that people would spend 2-15 with each character to check bloodtype and then kill themselves if they dont fit in the magic 5% group, that means that you would kill yourself 19 out of 20 times???

if people suicide if they spawned in kamenka they will suicide if they expect to get couple transfusions per characters life.

assuming servers population, i believe there left enough O- bloodbags for everyone.

[Teos (DayZ) 14]

if people suicide if they spawned in kamenka they will suicide if they expect to get couple transfusions per characters life.

assuming servers population, i believe there left enough O- bloodbags for everyone.

I take your point.

Would it perhaps be better to remove blood bags entirely?

1. Blood in storage lasts between 3-35 days depending on who and where you ask (I assume from the state of things in Dayz that it is atleast apocalypse day 30 or something in those lines)

2. I dont assume the player charcters are ment to be doctor/nurses, how many can actually properly set up an IV?

2A. Also considering in DayZ its done on the fly, in combat with Zombies/bandits on your 6 and possibly even in darkness or unsanitary conditions.

[Photolysis 25]

Its true that emergency units have some O-neg on stock, however when time allows it it is more likely that people are tested for type and thusly given the correct bloodtype, as O-neg only accounts for 4,33% (Source: Wikipedia) of the world population an assumption that endless supplies of O-neg to be available would be naive at best, as the donors available would mean if randomality is counted that O-neg donors account for between 0,1-9% of the available blood.

Lets assume blood types was implemented as stated in the original post: Would you seriously have me believe that people would create a character, go through the trouble of finding a typing kit and then continuedly commit suicide until they get an AB positive character? I cannot in my wildest dreams imagine that people would spend 2-15 with each character to check bloodtype and then kill themselves if they dont fit in the magic 5% group, that means that you would kill yourself 19 out of 20 times???

Also lets imagine a blood transfusion in Dayz as it is, my buddy gets ventilated by zombies/bullets, were outside, its night, its cold, its raining ... are you telling me I can pump a pint in him cold with no trouble? No chance, qoute Ballya Healthcare (http://www.ballya.biz/bloodwarmer.html):

---Low temperature transfusion may slow down the metabolism of the body, and it is easy to cause syndrome of hypodynamia, ague, spasm of blood vessel muscle, arthrosis ache and stomachache

---Low temperature transfusion slows down the medicine metabolic speed and affects anti-infection ability of the body..

---Low temperature transfusion may cause blood platelet function disordered, coagulation activity damaged and blood viscosity increased. Test proves that once the temperature declines by 1 degree, blood viscosity increases by 2%- 3%.

---After low temperature transfusion, oxygen consumption and carbon dioxide creation declines, myocardial ischemia may occur to the patients with coronary heart disease because arterial oxygenation declines. Symptoms, such as, sleepiness, clumsiness, metal disorder, easy agitation, slowing down or even stopping of breath and heartbeat will occur to some patients.

--- Low temperature transfusion affects the cardiovascular function, leading to the heart rate, and cardiac output declined, systemic vascular resistance and central venous pressure increased,. The symptoms of heart rate abnormal, ventricular vibration and sinus arrest occur as well.

--- Low temperature transfusion restrains pulmonary vascular contraction, increases pulmonary vascular resistance and reduces renal blood flow. It damages urine concentration and dilution function, which significantly affects breath and renal function

If you're going to give people an unfair advantage through blood types, why not go further. Randomise maximum health. Randomise how much weight a character can carry. Randomise height. It's not a good game mechanic because it places certain players at a disadvantage with no way to overcome it.

If you get a bad spawn you can still move to some place better. If you get bad RNG on loot you can still overcome that. But if you spawn with a certain blood type there is nothing you can do to eliminate that disadvantage, and that's why it should not be included. As best possible, players should all spawn equal, rather than granting some unfair advantages in the name of 'realism'.

As for your other comment, you would heat the patient if needed, you wouldn't make a haphazard attempt to heat the blood in a fireplace. Reduced core temperature would help reduce the damage of hypoxia as well, which would be a real danger for your shot up buddy while he's getting the transfusion.

Frankly if you get shot almost to death on a cold dark night, you've got bigger problems than the temperature of the blood for the transfusion.

[Frozen (DayZ) 144]

Would it perhaps be better to remove blood bags entirely?

1. Blood in storage lasts between 3-35 days depending on who and where you ask (I assume from the state of things in Dayz that it is atleast apocalypse day 30 or something in those lines)

2. I dont assume the player charcters are ment to be doctor/nurses, how many can actually properly set up an IV?

2A. Also considering in DayZ its done on the fly, in combat with Zombies/bandits on your 6 and possibly even in darkness or unsanitary conditions.

1 agree with this. some bloodbags became unusable, but i guess survivors are smart enough to check only for fresh ones.

2 thats quite an issue in game design. rocket wants that people who know stuff about survival could apply this knowledge in dayz..

if add "medical book" in game that has info about transfusion, upon death you character will lose this knowledge, but player still know how to do it. so at this point there should be a mini game(pick a place where to stick a needle) and a poster in a hospital that describes proper position for a needle. so people who know learned how to do it, wont be forced to learn when they star a new character.

2A. there was a suggestion of adding alcohol, so i hope it will make into standalone :). but if you got shot, you will have more major problem then infection.

[Heiduk 265]

Let's not forget that blood needs to be refrigerated so the chances of finding usable blood supplies in a hospital that has lost power and whose generators have run out of fuel is almost zero. Not to mention carrying them around in the bottom of your backpack.

If you want to make blood bags more realistic, just change their color and call them IV Fluid bags. No refrigeration required and they can be given to everyone. If would make sense though if more than one Blood/IV bag was required to return a patient to full health.

[Gordon Axeman 191]

No to blood types, yes to nerfing their healing and warming. Why? Read the posts up there. I have nothing to add.

[kebman 213]

Not a good idea at all. It would make the mod unplayable. Generally I don't like your ideas on meds, as they make the game too difficult, rendering your backpack filled with useless bags of blood. Not to mention that blood has to be fresh. It can only be stored up to six weeks with refrigeration. Dunno how long it would last without it, but you can be safe to assume it would last a much shorter while.

I don't like your idea about lighters either, especially when lighters have fewer uses than matches. And four? Why four? That's completely arbitrary. Again, it would render the mod unplayable, unless matches and lighters are very common.

I kinda like your ideas on wildlife, though, but then again this is not a hunting sim, rather a zombie apocalypse sim. Firstly, you could point out that there are far too few cows on the fields of DayZ, and secondly that sheep aren't really that squeamish, and thirdly that maybe there would be no cows at all, since probably zeds would aggro on them... No way to know, but it wouldn't be realistic either way. Now, the most important factor is really availability, and currently, I happen to think that the availability of game makes up for any lack of realism - despite how game never gives a single fuck about you shooting them.

[Bratalise 26]

I like these ideas however id bump up those lighter and match uses for sure 4 is way to low for a lighter, the average smoker from one Bic lighter can get around 1,000 lights so honestly in the world of dayz i can't see someone using the entire lighter in one life time, unless they added more uses like smoking a cigarette, sterilizing medical equipment, or even setting a gas tank or Jerry can a light. I do like your ideas on blood bags however blood types would be a very confusing system to people since no one really can name off the top of they're head which blood you can use for A positive. I would like to see blood bags nerfed for example the games blood system is based off the amount of blood in one person so the average human has around 5-6 liters of blood and at 2k per each liters the comes out to 10000-12000 blood Arma 2 went with 12000 cause why not? Each blood bag contains 1 unit of blood which is 500 ML of blood 1000ML is a liter so it would take 10-12 blood bags to fully heal a person since each blood bag would heal 1000 blood. BAM blood bag nerfed to a realistic amount and with your hunting ideas cooked meat would be much harder to come by.

[ward 8]

Like it, but only 1-4 uses for a lighter? What kind of lighter are you using?

[that 1 stranger 19]

Bears?

So I can finally achieve my dream of being Davy Crockett?

[Teos (DayZ) 14]

Like it, but only 1-4 uses for a lighter? What kind of lighter are you using?

Answer to this and some of the other comments on the "usage" numbers I put down.

Being a Smoker myself and having a wood burning furnace the usage numbers is based on me being an idiot (And hoping I am not the only one) .... I have maybe 20 lighters in the house and 1 box of matches;

The matches cannot actually be found inside the house or near the wood burning furnace but at my grill (Weber), hence my matches are outside on the terrace, the box is not full and some of them are mostly useless due to over exposure to moisture.

My lighters, yes some would have alot of use in them, but the idiot that I am means I have a lot of sucky lighters and alot of used up lighters lying around.

Hence I have around 5 good lighters, 1 at the furnace, 1 on me, 1 on my girlfriend and a spare 2 in the living rooms.

Bad lighters I have every where, both living rooms, at the furnace, in my barn/garage, at my computer and in my bedchamber.

...

Considering I am probably the first to die in a Zombie apocalypse I guess it would be reasonable to find lighters/matches on dead infected with more uses that what is found in houses, also as stated above I would like to have lighters be found in every house (est. 1 per house) and matches available in 1 out of 3 houses, which is by a far cry far more common than they are in DayZ today where I can roam ALOT of houses typically finding 10 watches, 2 maps, dozens of hatchets and a few hunting knifes before finding a box of matches .... but maybe that is just me :)

...

Also, couldn't emergency flares start a fire?

Edited September 3, 2012 by Teos