Why Bandit skins are a terrible idea.

[discombobulated 27]

Whilst I agree that the skin system is quite artificial, I think that it is a slightly flawed way to achieve a realistic end result.

Trying to model this IRL: people would trust each other more. You wouldn't go wasting your ammo deathmatching and you wouldn't enter into battle with someone who would not otherwise know you were there because even if you get the jump on them every battle just might lead to (permanent and possibly genuinely painful) death.

We have a human instinct towards sociability. If you meet another cold and hungry survivor IRL you are more likely to help each other out and share stories. I think this is where the skins come in. The skins to me represent things we would otherwise 'learn' about certain players in a real life situation. I meet you on the road. We chat. I tell you about the kind guy who gave me morphine in the woods North of Balota, you tell me about the bandit at NW airfield who murdered two of your buddies. We give each other physical descriptions of these people: their face, build, backpack, gun etc. Then we meet these people and we know whether they are heroes or bandits not because they have, in some unrealistic sense, 'chosen' to don certain clothes, but because their reputation has preceded them and we know to look out for them.

This to me is what the skins mean, in the absence of any real need to socialise and share, they are the next best thing. They are a slightly unrealistic way of making sure that folk end up a little more clued up about the intentions of their fellow survivors.

Yeah, I get where you're coming from, unfortunately I think we have different views on human nature in general, lol. I personally think that in this post apocalyptic survival situation people are more likely to behave in a very similar way to how they do in this mod.

You have one person, hasn't met anyone yet, and longs for companionship. He sees someone and he gets their attention. To his surprise the guy just turns around and starts shooting at him, so he fires back, only in self defence. He gets the kill, and he is alive, but does he still want the companionship of others? Probably not anywhere near as much as his instinct screams at him to trust no-one and to live above all other things. Most people have a survival instinct that will trump any other emotions their mind brings to the table, which eventually ends up with a dog eat dog world.

I mean also people can change how they look, cut/grow a beard, or your hair, different clothes, finding a new weapon. Without technology such as say a picture to associate with someone it becomes increasingly difficult to prove anyone did anything, meaning there is no trust. Yes there would be groups of survivors living together, the same as there would be groups of bandits doing the same thing, except they raid survivors hideouts to get their loot, because it is easy. Regardless of in a game or not people like to take the easy route out, and that is killing the guy for his stuff rather than finding their own.

First and foremost we have to think why we have the kos problem in dayz, and that is bandits, people who revel in killing other people for whatever reasons they mention.

So even with the glitch the OP comments about, the skins are a positive idea for those who want to play in a more social way. Before the only way to play in groups was with pple who you actually knew and this update has brought more interaction. So sorry for the bandits but they were getting away with it since it was impossible to distinguish them.

So, my opinion is that i feel sorry for the OP, but in many cases the skin system works and the bandits who have been preying on survivors for so long now have to be more careful so i want the system to be fixed but to be kept implemented.

Bandits can wear Ghillie suits, so can survivors, what do you do when you see a guy wearing one? What happens when a survivor starts shooting at you, and you become a bandit for returning fire in self defence? the former could be fixed possibly, but the latter is something the game can't account for. There are ways to team up without being with people you know, but if you're willing to trust anyone that says "friendly", then maybe change up the tactics a bit. Just my opinion.

[Jex =TE= (DayZ) 218]

Perhaps if there was a way to holster all weapons? As it is right now, if someone looks at you they are also aiming at you...does not make for a nice meetup for sure.

I do think if ammo was more scarce folks would be less inclined to just fire it off without thinking.

Double tap your left CTRL - it only works for rifles though

[tad@tadshackles.com 75]

If you don't want Bandit skin, don't kill people... How is this hard?

Yeah you might end up dead, but you aren't a murderer. "I was defending myself" Well, don't... Just die and regear.

I have almost 30,000 humanity and zero bandit kills and zero murders. If you get bandit skin, that's your fault, sorry.

[dallas 5195]

Obviously we need to fix it, humanity bugs the debug monitor at the moment, when you join or changes skin.

But bandit/hero skins are actually inviting good natured survivors to return to the cities south to do good deeds(Killing bandits on sight). So the skins are actually enforcing PvP. Before I'd never shoot anyone on sight, now I KOS bandits and visit Cherno/Elektro, providing bandits with additional targets. How's that a bad thing? I mean, while we survivors were whining, when bandit skins where removed, we were repeatedly told, KOS PvP is the name of the name, now we participate on our own terms and now KOS is suddently bad, because it's a two way street?

Edited August 29, 2012 by Dallas

[SillySil 295]

Obviously we need to fix it, humanity bugs the debug monitor at the moment, when you join or changes skin.

But bandit/hero skins are actually inviting good natured survivors to return to the cities south to do good deeds(Killing bandits on sight). So the skins are actually enforcing PvP. Before I'd never shoot anyone on sight, now I KOS bandits and visit Cherno/Elektro, providing bandits with additional targets. How's that a bad thing? I mean, while we survivors were whining, when bandit skins where removed, we were repeatedly told, KOS PvP is the name of the name, now we participate on our own terms and now KOS is suddently bad, because it's a two way street?

The problem is: nothing changes for those who KoS. They are not in more danger than they were. They already are killing everyone they see because they assume that everyone is a threat anyway. The only thing that changes is that people who don't KoS everyone will now be more eager to engage in firefights with bandit skins. Who by the way might not even be a bandit, but maybe just people defending themselves against a bandit who didn't have the bandit skin yet or just because of a bug. I feel like it's approaching the problem from wrong angle. I think to balance survivors/bandits there should be a different mechanic. Something that would make me think "do I really want to kill that guy" because right now there are absolutely no downsides of killing people except making sound.

[Icharus (DayZ) 13]

...

Not gonna lie, why do so many people care about the Bandit skin. Loot some residentials, find camo skin

Problem solved.

[Nyz 42]

The problem is: nothing changes for those who KoS. They are not in more danger than they were. They already are killing everyone they see because they assume that everyone is a threat anyway. The only thing that changes is that people who don't KoS everyone will now be more eager to engage in firefights with bandit skins. Who by the way might not even be a bandit, but maybe just people defending themselves against a bandit who didn't have the bandit skin yet or just because of a bug. I feel like it's approaching the problem from wrong angle. I think to balance survivors/bandits there should be a different mechanic. Something that would make me think "do I really want to kill that guy" because right now there are absolutely no downsides of killing people except making sound.

What you don't understand is this change wasn't for bandits. Nobody cares about that mechanic, because bandits will be bandits. They will kill whether the skin changes or not. This change was for the people that don't KOS. And a lot of people who wouldn't normally KOS did due to no differentiation. Again the problem is with the humanity system. This can not be overlooked. If humanity resetting to 0 upon death didn't happen, then people wouldn't get accidental murders by killing someone in a bandit skin.

You are right, I will get a murder for killing someone who is chasing me with an axe in a survivor skin. These situations happen, which is why I believe they put the humanity restoring over time. If I kill 1 person in 10 hours of play time, my humanity will be 2500. If I had to kill 2, it will slowly regenerate over time.

Is the system flawed? Yep, not working correctly. Does that mean a new system needs to be created? Nope, just correct the one we have. They have put in place the mechanic you seem to need "Do I really wanna kill this guy?" Is he in a bandit skin, then yes I do. Is he in a survivor skin? Well now I have to decide if a murder is worth the risk of always being shot at on sight.

Edited August 29, 2012 by Nyz

[SillySil 295]

What you don't understand is this change wasn't for bandits. Nobody cares about that mechanic, because bandits will be bandits. They will kill whether the skin changes or not. This change was for the people that don't KOS. And a lot of people who wouldn't normally KOS did due to no differentiation. Again the problem is with the humanity system. This can not be overlooked. If humanity resetting to 0 upon death didn't happen, then people wouldn't get accidental murders by killing someone in a bandit skin.

You are right, I will get a murder for killing someone who is chasing me with an axe in a survivor skin. These situations happen, which is why I believe they put the humanity restoring over time. If I kill 1 person in 10 hours of play time, my humanity will be 2500. If I had to kill 2, it will slowly regenerate over time.

Is the system flawed? Yep, not working correctly. Does that mean a new system needs to be created? Nope, just correct the one we have. They have put in place the mechanic you seem to need "Do I really wanna kill this guy?" Is he in a bandit skin, then yes I do. Is he in a survivor skin? Well now I have to decide if a murder is worth the risk of always being shot at on sight.

But it's not reducing the number of people who KoS. It's just telling those who are friendly who's a certain threat (not taking bugs into consideration).

I feel it's approaching the issue from wrong direction.

[Nyz 42]

In my experience it is reducing the amount of times I get shot at. Before, everyone I ran into would take a shot. There have bee numerous times in the last few days where I have run face to face into someone and we slowly excused ourselves. There has been one interaction with someone actually just saying sup dude... and moving on, lol. I never had that before as I have always played solo. I am not a KOS person, and even before the new bandit skin would try to avoid people, unless shot at then I would engage. The system isn't perfect, but it is a good start.

[SillySil 295]

In my experience it is reducing the amount of times I get shot at. Before, everyone I ran into would take a shot. There have bee numerous times in the last few days where I have run face to face into someone and we slowly excused ourselves. There has been one interaction with someone actually just saying sup dude... and moving on, lol. I never had that before as I have always played solo. I am not a KOS person, and even before the new bandit skin would try to avoid people, unless shot at then I would engage. The system isn't perfect, but it is a good start.

I've had some friendly encounters before and after the change. But I'm not talking about personal experience I'm talking about pros and cons of killing on sight. It's still the same. If you decide to KoS, it doesn't matter to you whether there are bandit skins or not. You will shoot everyone anyway. The only difference is for those who want to be friendly as it gives them some indication on who's who. But again, I'd rather have a reason not to shoot instead of this identification system, that is, and always will be flawed. Nothing stops me from grinding hero skin and then once everyone will be trusting me from a get go lead them into a trap and let my friends kill them. Or throw smokes at them, etc.

Edited August 29, 2012 by SillySil

[ZTrainz 21]

The reason why people kill on sight is because there is no reason not to. And skin isn't changing that.

It can change it for some and it will, as long as other penalties are tied to the skin. I've seen it in UO. Murderers highlight red when you mouse over them and their nametag is red instead of the standard blue. "Reds" get stat loss when they die, they can't enter towns and they are not just KoS but actively hunted by other players. These specific penalties won't work in DayZ at the moment for various reasons (there are no towns or safe zones, for instance) but hopefully some community driven penalties will evolve. In fact, these penalties are already beginning.

As the skin/humanity system gets debugged you will see players trust it more and take more decisive actions because of it. I can see player run trading posts refusing admittance to bandits and some medics refusing to treat bandits. Bandit skins will become a stigma. The community just needs time to react to the system after it is finally implemented properly. Trust me, this downside that you say doesn't exist will become painfully apparent with a more developed skin/humanity system and a little time.

Since the bandit skins came back my personal behavior has changed. I used to avoid contact or KoS if contact was likely. Now with survivors I'll avoid first and shoot only when cornered or engaged. Bandits, I'll actually seek out and kill. The skins have moved at least one player farther away from a pure KoS playstyle.

I think you need to remember that this is not anywhere near a finished product. Start thinking of the possibilities for a given system or feature rather than fixating on the current (broken) state.

You have one person, hasn't met anyone yet, and longs for companionship. He sees someone and he gets their attention. To his surprise the guy just turns around and starts shooting at him, so he fires back, only in self defence. He gets the kill, and he is alive, but does he still want the companionship of others? Probably not anywhere near as much as his instinct screams at him to trust no-one and to live above all other things. Most people have a survival instinct that will trump any other emotions their mind brings to the table, which eventually ends up with a dog eat dog world.

The problem with this example is that you consider the second person shooting on sight a foregone conclusion. If this is how humans really worked on an individual level, we'd have died out a long time ago. IRL it's much easier to survive as a pair than as an individual so your example is unlikely to be the norm for interaction between individuals (groups will probably still work as you described).

In DayZ, shoot on sight was almost a forgone conclusion but only because that was the action most likely to result in a net positive for the initial shooter. The only consequence of shooting was a few bullets and the unlikely chance that the person shooting second would somehow win the firefight. If you add enough consequence to the act of shooting someone to tip the balance and make a net negative the most likely outcome, your initial shooter probably won't shoot. Skins and humanity, if implemented correctly, will help tip the balance.

[SillySil 295]

It can change it for some and it will, as long as other penalties are tied to the skin. I've seen it in UO. Murderers highlight red when you mouse over them and their nametag is red instead of the standard blue. "Reds" get stat loss when they die, they can't enter towns and they are not just KoS but actively hunted by other players. These specific penalties won't work in DayZ at the moment for various reasons (there are no towns or safe zones, for instance) but hopefully some community driven penalties will evolve. In fact, these penalties are already beginning.

As the skin/humanity system gets debugged you will see players trust it more and take more decisive actions because of it. I can see player run trading posts refusing admittance to bandits and some medics refusing to treat bandits. Bandit skins will become a stigma. The community just needs time to react to the system after it is finally implemented properly. Trust me, this downside that you say doesn't exist will become painfully apparent with a more developed skin/humanity system and a little time.

Since the bandit skins came back my personal behavior has changed. I used to avoid contact or KoS if contact was likely. Now with survivors I'll avoid first and shoot only when cornered or engaged. Bandits, I'll actually seek out and kill. The skins have moved at least one player farther away from a pure KoS playstyle.

I think you need to remember that this is not anywhere near a finished product. Start thinking of the possibilities for a given system or feature rather than fixating on the current (broken) state.

I just don't think that branding player killers in an MMORPG open PvP style is gonna work here. One thing is that I can grind hero skin, befriend someone and then relay our position to my friends who will kill the people that trusted me because I had a hero skin. I can grief even more, shooting enfield near survivors in town or otherwise provoking them to kill me causing them to become bandits. Branding people player killers or heroes is never going to work perfectly in DayZ.

However like you said, if there was some penalty for player killing (even without branding me as PK) I would have a reason not to shoot people. And if the penalty would be small at first, people who got griefed by not-yet-bandit wouldn't suffer much. And you'd avoid the whole "I can trust this guy cause he's a hero" thing.

And before someone asks why add penalty for player killing? Because killing people on sight is the most profitable thing you can do when you see another person (unless you're looking for friends). There are no downsides. There is a good and bad decision to make. It's like asking "would you rather pay 5$ for something or get it free" type of thing. Being friendly and killing on sight is not equally viable. That's why most people kill on sight. The skin mechanic is trying to balance it a bit. But branding people "player killers" is not gonna work in a game where you can't have a "defense timer" (someone shoots you so you can shoot them back without penalty) nor it will ever be a reason not to kill people, if that's the only thing that player killers will get.

Edited August 29, 2012 by SillySil

[frankforsyth 12]

If you played dayz before removal of original bandit skins, game was really different back in those days. It's only about people's behaviour. Back then they were not all friendly (and most people i was killed by were survivors, not bandits), but you could enter Elektro and find group of friendlies in office building, help you with some basic equip and talk before you went inland. As a bandit, you were outcast (and I was for a little while), thrown out from society, unable to make friendly contact - if you hadn't any group, game was really lonely.

After removing bandit skin and global chat, all social part was gone. Everyone started acting as bandit in order to survive. That means no contact with strangers and shoot on site or avoiding (which was still the more dangerous option). Game completely changed and I think most people will agree with me - to worse.

Still if you don't like the change, you can have camo/ghilie on you, so bandit skin is no inevitable.

Bandit skins are not realistic, but KoS isn't realistic either and I think it make good balance in the moment.

[Vipala 32]

Nothing has changed, people shoot everyone on sight anyway.

[Maxgor 2314]

Nothing has changed, people shoot everyone on sight anyway.

I've seen it to be about 50/50 lately. I've had some interesting bandit moments, where they didn't just kill me, but tried to rob me...Though I did have some bandits that were rather apologetic when they accidentally shot me and broke a bone, so they bandaged me up, gave me morphine, and gave me my PDW back with a full batch of ammo and then sent me on my way lol

I found that having a mic is very important in this game. Saying your friendly or your not going to do anything won't be a guarantee, but it has helped me at times. Everyone should have a mic. They are very cheap to get a reliable one.

[SillySil 295]

If you played dayz before removal of original bandit skins, game was really different back in those days. It's only about people's behaviour. Back then they were not all friendly (and most people i was killed by were survivors, not bandits), but you could enter Elektro and find group of friendlies in office building, help you with some basic equip and talk before you went inland. As a bandit, you were outcast (and I was for a little while), thrown out from society, unable to make friendly contact - if you hadn't any group, game was really lonely.

After removing bandit skin and global chat, all social part was gone. Everyone started acting as bandit in order to survive. That means no contact with strangers and shoot on site or avoiding (which was still the more dangerous option). Game completely changed and I think most people will agree with me - to worse.

Still if you don't like the change, you can have camo/ghilie on you, so bandit skin is no inevitable.

Bandit skins are not realistic, but KoS isn't realistic either and I think it make good balance in the moment.

No point looking into past. Games change as players evolve, finding easiest ways of winning or in DayZ' case surviving. And shooting everyone on sight is still the best way to do it, despite the skin, plus bandits are just gonna go ghillie/camo anyway.

I want a reason not to kill people on sight, but I also think skins and identification is wrong way of doing it.

[Nyz 42]

If you grind humanity to trick players then good for you. Good job coming up with that. Players arent stupid, they will figure you out. That example still doesnt discredit the current bugged system.

[Nyz 42]

Sense you seem to think the system sucks lets hear your idea. I want to know what you consider incentive not to shoot.

[gywidion@msn.com 80]

I think if more severe effects are added, it will also change the tone. If a broken leg required time instead of just morphine, and things such as that.

It is too easy to respawn and or fix your self up after a fight. Ergo there is no real need to survive. No reason to not shoot first.

[SillySil 295]

If you grind humanity to trick players then good for you. Good job coming up with that. Players arent stupid, they will figure you out. That example still doesnt discredit the current bugged system.

How about serial killers respawning with 0 humanity and being survivors, or just new players who KoS. How about people shooting in self defense a bandit who doesn't have the bandit skin yet and becoming bandits themselves. How about someone in a survivor/hero skin forcing non-bandits to shoot him again turning survivors into bandits. Plus what I already said, heroes relying location of people to their bandit friends. Had enough?

Sense you seem to think the system sucks lets hear your idea. I want to know what you consider incentive not to shoot.

First of all I don't need to be a painter and tell you a better way of restoring paintings to be in a position to tell that this: http://i.imgur.com/QXIWS.gif went wrong.

And the penalty for getting shot? How about slower running, getting hungry faster, having less max blood, zeds aggroing on you more easily (but they'd have to stop being a joke). The most interesting idea I came up with imo would be introducing alcohol and smokes and addiction of things like that for murderers, and suffering some kind of consequences (maybe some of the one's I've listed, maybe something else like shaking or something) if you kill people but don't drink or smoke. Not only that would give you a reason not to shot because you'd finally have a downside for shooting people but it would also be interesting while trying to infiltrate a survivor group because you'd have to hide smoking/drinking so they don't figure you out (all that possible only with additional animations and lack of duping).

You can come up with many things like that. You just have to use your brain for a second and stop thinking that all ideas from devs are the best possible things/ways. You don't have to praise everything they do.

[Nyz 42]

How about serial killers respawning with 0 humanity and being survivors, or just new players who KoS. How about people shooting in self defense a bandit who doesn't have the bandit skin yet and becoming bandits themselves. How about someone in a survivor/hero skin forcing non-bandits to shoot him again turning survivors into bandits. Plus what I already said, heroes relying location of people to their bandit friends. Had enough?

Seriously?? Serial Killers respawning with 0 is a bug. Again, bug in the system. New players KOS, haven't established a pattern, therefore aren't bandits yet. People shooting in self defense is something that I can see needing to be addressed. Someone in a survivor / hero skin cant force anyone to do anything they don't want to do. Had enough? You haven't given me anything yet.

First of all I don't need to be a painter and tell you a better way of restoring paintings to be in a position to tell that this: http://i.imgur.com/QXIWS.gif went wrong.

And the penalty for getting shot? How about slower running, getting hungry faster, having less max blood, zeds aggroing on you more easily (but they'd have to stop being a joke). The most interesting idea I came up with imo would be introducing alcohol and smokes and addiction of things like that for murderers, and suffering some kind of consequences (maybe some of the one's I've listed, maybe something else like shaking or something) if you kill people but don't drink or smoke. Not only that would give you a reason not to shot because you'd finally have a downside for shooting people but it would also be interesting while trying to infiltrate a survivor group because you'd have to hide smoking/drinking so they don't figure you out (all that possible only with additional animations and lack of duping).

You can come up with many things like that. You just have to use your brain for a second and stop thinking that all ideas from devs are the best possible things/ways. You don't have to praise everything they do.

Praise them for everything they do?? Where do you get that? Simply because you don't make a good argument, and I say the problem is a buggy system doesn't mean I'm pro dev. It simply means that aside from the bugs, which everyone knows are there, The core of what is trying to be accomplished is fine. You on the other hand, won't be happy until the bandit life style is given so many penalties that the bandit way of playing is dead. I don't want you to paint my picture, or be involved in developing a game that I play, because honestly those ideas aren't that great. The game is about freedom. The bandit skin doesn't hinder you, or take away your freedom / enjoyment in anyway. It simply lets the other people around know (similar to being red in old school UO), what you are about. You on the other hand want to impose so many penalties, that we will all be holding hands singing kumbaiya in cherno square. No thanks.

[SillySil 295]

Seriously?? Serial Killers respawning with 0 is a bug. Again, bug in the system. New players KOS, haven't established a pattern, therefore aren't bandits yet.

They're still shooting you and you need to shoot back. What are you going to do if a survivor chases you with an axe?

People shooting in self defense is something that I can see needing to be addressed.

And how will you do that in a game that takes seconds to kill someone. What if you know that someone who's not in a bandit skin is in fact a bandit and that if you don't shoot him first he will shoot you? Even if the defense mechanism would be implemented would you wait for him to shoot at you first and then shoot back? That would work in MMORPG but not here where a single shot can kill you.

Someone in a survivor / hero skin cant force anyone to do anything they don't want to do.

How about I chase you with an axe repeatedly trying to kill you? Or just shoot in your direction with some gun, wouldn't you fire back? Or throw smokes at you? Or keep aggroing zombies at you? I can think of something.

Praise them for everything they do?? Where do you get that? Simply because you don't make a good argument, and I say the problem is a buggy system doesn't mean I'm pro dev. It simply means that aside from the bugs, which everyone knows are there, The core of what is trying to be accomplished is fine.

Dude you're all like "you're wrong, you're wrong, you're wrong, come up with something better before you say that something sucks" in defense of something that I'm calmly criticizing in a civilized manner. It's called feedback. You know, important part of alpha/beta testing?

I don't want you to paint my picture, or be involved in developing a game that I play, because honestly those ideas aren't that great. The game is about freedom. The bandit skin doesn't hinder you, or take away your freedom / enjoyment in anyway. It simply lets the other people around know (similar to being red in old school UO), what you are about.

And I think it's wrong way of addressing the problem. I'd rather have reasons not to shoot instead of this identification system that in my opinion will never be perfect because it's flawed in it's design and takes away uncertainty from gameplay. Lets say that the system works perfectly and every bandit is branded bandit and every survivor a survivor, without any mistakes or bugs. Now you know who's on which team. When that happens you might as well swap "bandit" with "red" and survivor/hero with "blue" and just start playing red vs blue. Except that reds might teamkill from time to time. But the gameplay changes into something basic. You might as well pick the red or blue team at the start.

You on the other hand, won't be happy until the bandit life style is given so many penalties that the bandit way of playing is dead. [...] You on the other hand want to impose so many penalties, that we will all be holding hands singing kumbaiya in cherno square. No thanks.

I am the one who snipes your scrawny ass in cherno. I am the one who's in the stary hangar with a grenade launcher piling up bodies in tents. I am the one who puts satchel charge in electro shop and waits for some lemming to go inside. You think I want to sing kumbaiya with you? You mistake my intentions. I don't want to kill banditry. I want it to be equal strategy to being friendly. But for that I need a reason not to kill on sight or for fun. Because otherwise, killing people on sight is the best way of surviving while gearing up very fast. And compared to that, all poor souls who want to be friendly are at a disadvantage. It's kinda ironic. You want the game to give you a lot of freedom yet you think it's a good idea to favor one strategy over another while telling me that adding downsides to the currently favored strategy is a bad idea. I just don't want banditry to be more viable strategy. I want them to be equally viable. But for that you need a reason not to kill. And even when introduced, I'd probably still be a bandit. But this time, I'd have to worry about more things than loosing some bullets and making sound. Because that's the only downside of being a man hunter in this game.

[frankforsyth 12]

No point looking into past. Games change as players evolve, finding easiest ways of winning or in DayZ' case surviving. And shooting everyone on sight is still the best way to do it, despite the skin, plus bandits are just gonna go ghillie/camo anyway.

I want a reason not to kill people on sight, but I also think skins and identification is wrong way of doing it.

Easy. People in real zombie apocalypse wouldn't soot each other. It's not crysis of type - there is only XY cans of food and you need to survive as long as you can. It's just game. It's shooter, so people would not KoS each other.

This game mechanics could solve issue about new spawners in Cherno and Electro KoS each other because they are paranoid. In military areas as Stary Sobor, rules will be always KoS and nothing will change it. And I have no problem about it.

Thirdly, why not KoS when It's easiest way to survive? Because this game is not just about surviving. It's about all kinds of untexpected encounters and experiences, made by interacting with other people. Removing bandit skin made the game experience poorer. Return of skins has potential to enrich dayz experience again.

It's a big tool. It's not perfect in all its aspect but it seems to be working in its general purpouse. I don't want to convince you not to KoS, you can do everything you want, I don't care. Unless you are shooting survivors in Cherno and I meet you.

[SillySil 295]

Easy. People in real zombie apocalypse wouldn't soot each other. It's not crysis of type - there is only XY cans of food and you need to survive as long as you can. It's just game. It's shooter, so people would not KoS each other.

This game mechanics could solve issue about new spawners in Cherno and Electro KoS each other because they are paranoid. In military areas as Stary Sobor, rules will be always KoS and nothing will change it. And I have no problem about it.

Thirdly, why not KoS when It's easiest way to survive? Because this game is not just about surviving. It's about all kinds of untexpected encounters and experiences, made by interacting with other people. Removing bandit skin made the game experience poorer. Return of skins has potential to enrich dayz experience again.

It's a big tool. It's not perfect in all its aspect but it seems to be working in its general purpouse. I don't want to convince you not to KoS, you can do everything you want, I don't care. Unless you are shooting survivors in Cherno and I meet you.

I don't think it's adding to the gameplay. I think it's just chaning gamemode from FFA DM to TDM with the red team teamkilling from time to time. I don't think people will still KoS up north. Because if you do, you will become a bandit. And then you will be KoS'd. I think it's gonna be more like, all survivors are on blue team while all bandits are on the red team. If this is only to help newspawns, then this mechanic is flawed even more than I thought. There are better ways to do help newspawns cooperate. If the skin is supposed to be some kind of fix for rampart player killing then I don't think it's doing good job and never will. If the skin is supposed to change the gameplay into red vs blue, I think it's even worse.

Edited August 30, 2012 by SillySil

[kamajutsu 4]

katniss, on 28 August 2012 - 06:52 PM, said:

Perhaps if there was a way to holster all weapons? As it is right now, if someone looks at you they are also aiming at you...does not make for a nice meetup for sure.

+1

That's the thing that really gets me about it all - if the devs wanted us to be friendly we wouldn't point our guns around constantly.

It's silly, and on the verge of only being acceptable to crazy-mass-killer types in real life.

Definitely agree with this!

What could be a cool idea is a "holster" function (seeing as "lowering" the weapon doesn't seem to be sufficient). Players who are truly friendly, with no intention of a PVP fight, should have the ability to "holster" a weapon and run freely.

This should then be relayed to everyone, that a person with a holstered gun DOES NOT WANT TO ENGAGE in any fight. This way, new players or true friendlies can spot each other from far away, knowing that this person does not want to engage.

If someone wants to "trick" people into being friendly, and whip out their gun - it has to be a slower animation, so you have a chance to engage back or find cover / run.

Killing a holstered individual could mean double negative point deduction from humanity.

The more your weapon is holstered, the more your humanity goes up