We've got it too easy

[Donkey (DayZ) 3]

I've heard this argument made before but never really believed it since I die all the time, and half the time it's to the zombies. Tonight, I just finished watching Dawn of the Dead (2004) for the first time and now I think I understand.

My understanding is that the intent of this mod is for you to log in and think, "Damn, now I'm fucked", and then try to survive for as long as possible. The way it is now, you're generally fine as long as you don't do something stupid. You can run through the forest and sneak through towns, and if you happen to spook a few zombies you can run away and take care of them outside of town. At some point though, another survivor will see you and shoot you just so you don't have the chance to shoot them, and that actually makes sense in the context of the game.

People have been playing the mod for a while now and I think at this point we've all kind of settled in to the current atmosphere. We're thinking that maybe we can start clearing out some towns and setting up bases, maybe keep the zombies out and defend from other players like capture the flag, and our biggest concern is how to avoid being killed by a random sniper on a hill.

After watching the above movie, I now believe that we need to reset our expectations of the current game world and remember what this mod is meant to be about. It should be that when you log in, you know there's no hope, and there's no way you're sneaking into that town for some beans because zombies are bad ass and will run you down, and walking around by yourself means certain death. There's no way you're going to climb up on that hill and start cappin' fools as they spawn on the beach because you have bigger problems, and you're worried the Z's will come running.

Most importantly, when you see another survivor you think, "Thank God", and you know they're thinking the same thing because the world's gone to hell.

[esaciar 1]

Tremendous post that emphasises both the core premise of this mod and taps into the hope of a community for such a potentially unparalleled experience.

We could define, shape and take a huge share in how "our" world evolves here. It's exciting.

[jagdfalke@gmail.com 5]

Agreed.

The game was actually really good to begin with. Then all the carebears showed up and the forums were flooded with-

Waaaahh wahhh! the night is too dark!

Waaahhh wahhh! there are too many zombies!!

Waaaahh wahhh! where are all the vehicles?!?!

Now it's just all about PVP. The first weeks of the game were great, because surviving was actually a challenge. The night was actually something to be afraid of (flares had a purpose!). Now it's all just meh.

Rocket, if you read this - f*ck the carebears. This is supposed to be the zombie apocalypse! BRING IT ON.

[esaciar 1]

It's illegal to f**k a carebear.

Under the soft toy sexual abuse act of 1981

[septuscap 42]

I think zombie spawns should be changed.

Rather than having zeds spawn in cities as players show up, spawn HORDES (100+) in various locations. Then have two modes of aggro.

If a shot is fired, zombies from LONG DISTANCES will drift in that direction (not aggro'ed on the player). Maybe only half the horde will be in range and change direction while the others stay on their previous course. Or maybe zombies will simply drift in the direction of the most players (sense of smell?)

If zombies are within a few hundred meters, we get the frenzied zombies we see now.

Cities may have a few zeds here or there, or none at all. Seeing a zombie doesn't scare anyone. Seeing 50 zombies doesn't scare anyone. Not knowing if 200 zombies are going to rush out of the treeline and trap you in a building? FUCKING TERRIFYING.

As zombies are killed, spawn more hordes. There is no reason a server should have only 300 zombies, I don't care if the playerbase is in the wilderness, or concentrated around a few cities, it's a waste of server resources and my time to not be terrified of zombie hordes around every corner.

[dale0404 16]

Some good posts here.

[tugex 20]

Pulse: 60

Pants: dry

Sweat: none

Small talk: say good afternoon to the zombie and walk past

Shopping: pick beanz and coke from the store

Wilderness: shoot wildboars and cook the meat on the campfire while watching sunset

Does anybody know a semi-realistic zombie survival game?

In other words BUMP for this topic.

[aphex187 52]

For me the z's are the least of my worries, it's other players I'm more concerned about. Would love the z count to be risen again and for spawn points to be random instead of around buildings etc.

[liquidje 38]

Still, I don't share the opinion of OP. Dawn of the Dead (remake) is really the exception of all the zombie movies, namely that in most zombie movies the biggest threat is humanity itself.

Also, Dawn of the Dead is not really that much like DayZ. Don't think DayZ is a zombie game, it is a survival game in a post-apocalyptic background. If you want to see a zombie movie which suits the DayZ mentality better, I think "28 Days Later" would suit a lot better.

[Donkey (DayZ) 3]

Okay, I'll admit Dawn of the Dead would be a bit over the top since you couldn't really even walk around outside, but I was inspired and it made me notice that I've become too relaxed about the whole zombie apocalypse thing in DayZ and no longer see it as a threat. I completely agree about 28 Days Later. It was one of my favorite films and works great as inspiration for DayZ.

The problem I see at this point with upping the zombie threat is that when you get killed by the current Alpha zombies, you usually feel like you've been cheated or glitched, kind of like when you fall through the floor, so it would be more annoying than anything to make them more of a presence now. It would be like adding more outhouses, with sharper doors and harder to attain loot inside, in order to make the game more challenging.

We still don't know where this mod will end up or what the developers really have in mind, but once the zombies have been streamlined and made more threatening and less annoying, I wouldn't be surprised to see them become more of a presence in DayZ... so let's not get too comfortable.

[Shag 90]

Agreed I think if the devs were to really try and sort out the zeds in the coming patches we could really start to see the core game materialize.

Talking about wandering zombie hordes causing you to drop a load, how about other random events like special ops teams (AI controlled) landing with good equipment and a need to exterminate all survivors. No witnesses!

I actually think that would be a better way to introduce military hardware into the game than deer stands crashyed chopper sites. Make you kill for your stuff - maybe even force people to team up more.

These events should be rare tho.

[zak757 146]

I'm going to be the one who is willing to not look super ultra elite hardcore and say: Is the game not already brutal enough?

[Tigerr13 1]

I'm going to be the one who is willing to not look super ultra elite hardcore and say: Is the game not already brutal enough?

No, not really. Once you sort yourself out, know the do's and don't's its really quite easy to survive. I agree with a more deadly zombie presence. I want to dread having to go into towns for food etc. Currently I just lol into towns grab my beans and leave unscathed. If I do manage to attract some fans I either run out of town and off them or run into a building and off them since they can't actually catch you.

[FragMonkey 1]

Zombies do need to be tougher.

There needs to be 5x as many as there are now, and they need to be everywhere. In the cities, in the forests, everywhere.

[dph314 2]

Do you understand what you're saying about the zombies? There needs to be 5 times more and 10 times more and all this other stuff, yet...How do you plan on killing them? Two things will happen with 5X more zombies: 1.) Crawling EVERYWHERE making the game incredibly slow and boring, 2.) Dying every single time you need to go into town for food, every single time, since where do you plan on getting all this ammo to kill 100 zombies? How often do you have 100 bullets on you for every can of food you wanna go in and get? And with either of the two outcomes above, one thing is GUARENTEED- the game gets less fun. Whether it gets incredibly slow and boring or incredibly difficult to the point where it's frustrating/impossible, one thing is certain- it gets less fun. I know SOMETHING should be done, but I just don't think a million more zombies is the answer.

[kaffaljidhma 1]

Going prone shouldn't be a magical cloaking device. I go into towns all the time while taking zero risk, and I actually prefer to use the crossbow because it's good enough at killing the 1 zombie I aggro per 500 encountered. Make survivors more noticeable overall and scale the number of new zombie spawns with town size and not noise made. I understand if the Lee Enfield aggroes all existing zombies, but don't make it continually spawn hordes and hordes around a lone barn. It's also ridiculous that places like Vybor have less zombie spawns than the adjacent gas station. If you want to go into a big town, you're going to have to suit up with trainer barns and deer stands and prepare for a big fight. If you're too lazy or unskilled to do that, hunt survivors for their loot, not because you're bored and want to fight an actual threat.

[daedrick 90]

I completly agree. In my opinion, if we dont take all the glitch and bugs that need fixing, zombies are a top priority. threat level must increase dramaticaly.

Even If I love 28 days later type of zombies, infected people are actually really easy to counter. Dawn of the dead remake REALLY nailed the desesperate atmosphere that should reign in DAYZ. Unlike shambling slow zombies, DAWN's zombies really were hard to deal with, praticaly invincible, they could wistand any damage but brain damage, and they were fast. If these kind of zombies apeared in our reality, I wouldn't be surprised if most of the human population disapeared off the face of earth, unlike shambling slow zombies.

Either way, it doesn't matter what kind of zombies, infected people or monster rocket decide to change the current infected into, what matters is that they need to be changed. AT the most basic level, and im not talking about complex behavior like zombie migration or pratrolling hordes, but at the most basic state.

First of all, their collision need to be fixed. They shouldn't go through walls and doors, nor hit you through them, and they should't stop if they try to hit you.

Then, their teleporting lagging sprinting speed need to be nerfed to somewhat realistic running speed.

After that their running behavior or AI must be changed, no more broken flanking. They should run eradicaly toward the player, that I agree, in small ''S'' like if they somewhat lacked balance but not go 90 degrees, then another 90 degree toward the player.

Now, after all that stuff have been done, we have two choice;

We need a lot more zombies because they are easier to kill since they buggy behavior have been fixed.

or

Zombies can now only die if they get shot in the head, they can still be slowed down if they get shot in the legs, but they would only really stop when shot in the head.

Thats my opinion and suggestion about the matter. Im sure rocket can come up with an elegant way to make zombies the real threat to our survival and less the players. I mean, I want bandits, betrayal and roaming organised evil gang. I love them, they make DAYZ what it really is. But as it is, it is such a walk in the park, that even newbies, with starter pistol can deathmatch in the biggest cities while zombies pick their noses.

Zombies as of 1.7.0 are more like flies than anything else, they gravite around player, they annoy them and thats about it. Rarely you will die to zombies because you fought with players and it left you with almost zero blood, but other than that...

Also, allow me to come back to my comment about zombies could be anything. What make a survival horror is not really about the monster, no matter what kind of monsters they are. Its the danger the represent that really make them horrifying. The though that the odds are heavily against you. That you are closer to death, than you are to life, at anytime. Zombies could the monsters from stephen king's ''the mist'',''the flood'' from halo or the ''representation of evil'' from silent hill. It wouldn't change a thing as long as whatever monster is used is indeed very dangerous and hard to deal with. Its just the shell. The only difference is their look. In all cases, like zombies they are;

Hard to kill

Very deadly

legion

and somewhat mysterious. (they raise many questions)

Anyway, what Im trying to say is that I dont care what kind of zombies we get, as long as they inspire despair and fear, and I mean REAL FEAR. Not the fear that the character is suposed to feel, but the fear the PLAYER behind the character feel when encountering the ''monsters'' because they are that dangerous.

[forbesy 1]

agreed. too easy, and too many vehicles

[dph314 2]

First there's "we need more zombies" comments, and now we need less vehicles? I have yet to run into a vehicle, probably because clans keep hoarding them. Like my post a few posts up, more zombies will either equal 1.) crawling way too much which makes the game too slow and boring, or 2.) you're dead everytime you go into a town since there's no melee attack and you aren't going to be carrying 100 bullets on you every time you need to go into a town for food. And vehicles, though I've never had one, are a fun aspect of the game I'm assuming. Why have less of them? They're already practically non-existant as it is.

[zak757 146]

Be careful what you wish for, kids. You sound like a super awesome badass when you say you want to loot barren cities from massive hordes of super tough zombies with impeccable vision and hearing. I guarantee 100% you will be bitching when you do not survive Day 0.

My opinion:

Increase zombie count by 25%

Increase zombie torso/limbs health 25%

Decrease outdoor zombie speed to player speed

Increase indoor zombie speed by 75%

Make it so constant flashlight use may cause aggro

Make it possible to outsmart zombies to stop chase

Make zombies able to vault obstacles

Have rare wandering groups in forests

Make them run in a straight line

No more clipping through doors, make them open them or go around

Make detection radius depend on the weight you carry

The current detection radius would apply for a player with a full inventory, rifle, sidearm, but nothing in the backpack.

[-AoXo- 24]

Until the zombies actually move properly (i.e. don't zig zag, don't turn into ghosts and float through walls) adding more of them, or making them stronger, or faster, is just going to make them feel even more cheap as hell.

[sh1f 2]

If I just spawned, I don't even sneak through towns. Worrying about not aggroing zombies just slows you down and keeps you in the danger zone longer. I use an approach i call "free running". I just sprint (and crouch-run where appropriate) from important building to important building and kite any zombles I pick up. Once indoors, I turn around and head-pop 'em (toooo easy and Makarov ammo in this game is like grains of sand on the beach). Usually I'll only have picked up maybe four or five depending on how long I had to run and whether I worried about minimizing aggro by crouch-running where appropriate and staying off loud hard surfaces. I quickly loot the area (for instance, supermarket takes maybe a minute max) and move on to the next building before other players can respond to the sound.

I've found this is the fastest way to gear up in the beginning. My favorite route is in Elektro: West Firehouse -> Church -> Hospital -> School House -> Offices -> Bistro -> Market -> North Firehouse -> "North" (if I have at least a compass and upgraded backpack)

Obviously my situational awareness is not able to be at max using this tactic, but if I do come across another player, I'm usually moving too quick for them to hit me if they do open fire. Of course, this is helped by the fact I generally only play on Veteran servers.

This tactic SHOULDN'T work. Zombies are currently a non-issue. Only time I worry about zombies is if I get into a PVP situation near a deer stand out in the middle of nowhere.

[Beebs (DayZ) 0]

I think the Dawn of the Dead reference is amusing because in its prequel, Night of the Living Dead, who kills Ben? Spoiler alert: not zombies.

[Matz41 0]

I think the Dawn of the Dead reference is amusing because in its prequel' date=' Night of the Living Dead, who kills Ben? Spoiler alert: not zombies.

[/quote']

Other players will, and should always be a threat to other players. However, right now, they are pretty much the only threat since once you've played enough, say a few hours, you figure out how to avoid any problems with the zombies.

Increase zombie count by 25%

Increase zombie torso/limbs health 25%

Decrease outdoor zombie speed to player speed

Increase indoor zombie speed by 75%

Make it so constant flashlight use may cause aggro

Make it possible to outsmart zombies to stop chase

Make zombies able to vault obstacles

Have rare wandering groups in forests

Make them run in a straight line

No more clipping through doors' date=' make them open them or go around

Make detection radius depend on the weight you carry

The current detection radius would apply for a player with a full inventory, rifle, sidearm, but nothing in the backpack.

[/quote']

Good ideas. But as mentioned by others, these should be added in the order that they make the most sense. The zombies' behavior should be fixed before anything else.

Love the idea of random wandering groups in forests and the possibility of outsmarting zombies (using obstacles to slow them down, hiding during X seconds, etc.).

[prominentalex 76]

Do you understand what you're saying about the zombies? There needs to be 5 times more and 10 times more and all this other stuff' date=' yet...How do you plan on killing them? Two things will happen with 5X more zombies: 1.) Crawling EVERYWHERE making the game incredibly slow and boring, 2.) Dying every single time you need to go into town for food, every single time, since where do you plan on getting all this ammo to kill 100 zombies? How often do you have 100 bullets on you for every can of food you wanna go in and get? And with either of the two outcomes above, one thing is GUARENTEED- the game gets less fun. Whether it gets incredibly slow and boring or incredibly difficult to the point where it's frustrating/impossible, one thing is certain- it gets less fun. I know SOMETHING should be done, but I just don't think a million more zombies is the answer.

[/quote']

The solution to that? Work together. Everyone who wants to enjoy the game, will be nearly forced to cooperate. I believe that will help the "Shoot on sight". It might be more like, I really need food maybe this person can go with me into town and we can share some loot because I can't survive alone.