Thermal vision. Does it belong in this game?

[galhast 6]

I realize that in dayz, death falls from the sky. Hackers, snipers, and all other manners of things try to kill you, the point is to survive through whatever means you get. I try to play honestly, I've had this character for a week now, found all the nice camo stuff in a tent (maybe duped, no idea, I only know that I found it) - first ghillie, first svd, first rangefinders. Hackers you can't really avoid. But everything else in the game should have some method of dealing with it, therein lies the nature of the game. Get better or die.

It's not a balanced pvp game, and that's part of the charm - but I've learned the threat of a sniper can be dealt with by zigzagging and watching the treeline, not standing still. A squad can be countered by spotting them first, and staying away. These are all tough to do, but not impossible. Nothing should be impossible to survive against in an ideal DayZ environment. But countering a person, or squad that has thermal vision seems -impossible- to escape without alt-f4ing, unless you are unbelievably lucky and find one yourself, then land a good shot before they can.

The purpose of the game is to punish mistakes. Occasionally you get unlucky, you can't predict every variable, but you can try to deal with every issue that comes your way. I was in a large conifer, in a ghillie with svd camo, completely freaking invisible. I waited for hours to get eyes on somebody. Someone obviously saw me first. The question is, how? I didn't make any noise for the entire time I was waiting, aside from needing to eat/drink. Nameplates weren't on in the server. Then I realised, thermal vision.

I'm not mad, but I am wondering what I could've done better. How do you counter thermal vision, aside from getting it yourself and shooting first? Even if I'm a baddie and got sniped by someone better than I am, the argument remains. Are thermals relevent to DayZ, or are they broke as all hell?

Edited August 17, 2012 by galhast

[Lurke 1]

Thermal isnt in the game, it got removed, dont know when its coming back...

[thehumandove 344]

Yes, it should be in the game.

Why? Because I just got it and it's fucking awesome.

Why does that matter? Because until I got it, I always wanted it.

Why does that matter? Because it keeps things interesting searching for shiny things, and then basking in the reward of finally getting it.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. DayZ isn't meant to be balanced like other games. That ruins the drive. Everyone strives for an unfair advantage. It's good shit.

[Bobcomss 189]

Just got unlucky, kudos for no ALT+F4 like most snipers though :)

Could be a hacker but if you was in a common sniper spot people tend to Ghost those areas...

[Deathcall 101]

They took thermal out? I wasn't aware of this... guess I'll have to throw away the one I found on some guy's body...

In any case, they should keep thermal... as long as they also allow you to cover yourself in mud like Arnold in Predator.

[galhast 6]

Just got unlucky, kudos for no ALT+F4 like most snipers though :)

Could be a hacker but if you was in a common sniper spot people tend to Ghost those areas...

It was in the hills south of stary, looking into the tents. So yes, it very well could have been someone ghosting, or even just checking the spot out. Either way, I miss my beautiful SVD :( I didn't even get to shoot anyone with it!

As for thermals being removed from the game, I kind of hope this is true. But I see on both the wiki and dayzdb pages, it doesn't mention anything about that.

Edited August 17, 2012 by galhast

[buster0083 1]

There's still people confused about this...

In the early days there were TWO weapons with thermal sights. The AS50 TWS and the L85A2 AWS. The AS50 TWS was removed for balance reasons.

About the time of 1.7.2.3 (or thereabouts) there was a bug that resulted in some people losing L85A2s from their inventories. Rocket mentioned this saying something like "there's a known issue with some weapons disappearing, we're working on it". People flew to the assumption that the L85A2 AWS had been removed for balance without reading/comprehending Rocket's words. It was fixed in the following update.

tl;dr - there are thermal weapon sights in game, but not attached to AS50s.

[cur1er 12]

My squad owns about 4 L85's and most of us agree they're over-powered and as much as an advantage they give i'd like to see them removed, or as Death said hae some sort of camo to hide yourself from they eagle-eye thermal. I can see snipers in a treeline 700meters away before they can see me although they've been camping whereas i'd just be running through an area. The only time we really use our thermals is for counter-sniping idiots who sit at elektro/cherno sniping off players with no weapons. That's just my pot-o'-gold for the thermal scopes.

[BL1P 252]

A couple of things I think that are wrong.

1. All the electronic items and optics should need batteries that run out.

2. All items and weapons should degrade over time to help curb the over abundance of high end weapons and gear.

[PoisonedAl 128]

Carebares bitch enough about the vanilla AS50 so I'm not surprised the TWS was removed. That thing was just silly. A 50 cal sniper rifle with a thermal scope was just batty nuggets! However an "okay" assault rifle with thermal? Not so much.

The game needs some rare end game loot to find, otherwise there is little point risking your neck around zombies and other dip-shit players after you find basic gear.

Not that it matters. Carebares won't be happy until we're forced into throwing pillows at each other!... Oh who am I kidding? They would still fucking whine!

[PoisonedAl 128]

A couple of things I think that are wrong.

1. All the electronic items and optics should need batteries that run out.

Not a bad idea.

2. All items and weapons should degrade over time to help curb the over abundance of high end weapons and gear.

On second thought, go die in a fire!

Weapon degradation has long been documented as a lazy and VERY annoying balance mechanic. NOBODY likes it and it only gets used when game designers are lazy idiots (eg: Dead Island).

[PoisonedAl 128]

Double post. ಠ_ಠ

Edited August 17, 2012 by PoisonedAl

[Stworca 87]

There still is a weapon with NV/Thermal scope (L85), you won't be able to win sniper duels with it, but for group play at night, you can not find a better weapon.

While Thermal .50 cal was just batshit insane, L85 can sometimes be described as "meh". (that's an exact quote)

Though i don't mind players having it, i wouldn't mind restricting the number of L85's per server, much like cars. Increase the competition and hunt for those jewels.

Edited August 17, 2012 by Stworca

[belesis 14]

NOBODY likes it and it only gets used when game designers are lazy idiots (eg: Dead Island).

Oh OK, I didn't realize NOBODY likes weapon degradation, glad you cleared that up for EVERBODY.

[elasticz 35]

The L85 with thermal needs to be in game for the exact reason you were killed.

I agree that it's a bit overpowered. But if they completely remove thermal from the game, then there wouldn't really be anything to counter snipers.

But then again, if you play in low populated servers and don't stay in one place to long, you wont encounter a L85 thermal let alone get killed by one.

[elasticz 35]

Weapon degradation has long been documented as a lazy and VERY annoying balance mechanic. NOBODY likes it and it only gets used when game designers are lazy idiots (eg: Dead Island).

Holy shit, are you calling Bethesda lazy? I fucking love the fallout series. And that game had weapon degradation.

[buster0083 1]

elasticz, offtop for just a second but can I thank you and the rest of your country for your wonderful, wonderful beer? I should be over your way now, drinking beer and waiting for the Spa GP but alas my employers seem to think I should be working instead :P

[ozjace 35]

people scavenge for beans yet theirs Thermal dudes hunting unarmed people. Does that sound like balance?

[syncmaster (DayZ) 63]

If balance doesn't matter in this game why was the other thermal removed?

[Venzire 76]

If balance doesn't matter in this game why was the other thermal removed?

Try it out in Armoury, you'll see why... O_O

[PoisonedAl 128]

Holy shit, are you calling Bethesda lazy? I fucking love the fallout series. And that game had weapon degradation.

Actually, yes. You are just being forced to into an arbitrary RPG mechanic you HAVE to use because.... fuck you that's why! it's so they can have a million working guns left laying around centuries after a nuclear apocalypse that fall apart as soon as you touch them like you have acidic hands or something. Because most gamers these days have ADD, they couldn't make it HARD to find guns, so you get force fed the degradation shit pie as a lazy way to force you to upgrade RPG points and to constantly find tonnes and tonnes of crap.

[BL1P 252]

Actually, yes. You are just being forced to into an arbitrary RPG mechanic you HAVE to use because.... fuck you that's why! it's so they can have a million working guns left laying around centuries after a nuclear apocalypse that fall apart as soon as you touch them like you have acidic hands or something. Because most gamers these days have ADD, they couldn't make it HARD to find guns, so you get force fed the degradation shit pie as a lazy way to force you to upgrade RPG points and to constantly find tonnes and tonnes of crap.

The problem isn't just that guns are easy to find, its that the guns are persistent across all servers.

Certain items are never dropped but just get passed on to someone else because of the items high value.

So because of the persistence they become the only items you find in tents, vehicles and on players after a certain amount of time.

It is possible that after a month or two of playing without resets all tents on all servers will hold thermals because of the amount of people that keep that gun over other guns.

[irl-calibre 744]

and suddenly. you're kicked outta your comfort zone, you realise that you can't sit for hours invisible - to everyone, just maybe someojne is scanning the aera you're camped in with thermal scopes. Oh dear, now what? run & cry to the forums? get some virtual tea & sympathy? This is how this game works, your understanding of what you face deepens. Death is inevitable, don't become attached to your gear, it's all going to end in tears. Learn, respawn.

[batflaps 20]

Remove it, its OP. NVGs are enough.

[PoisonedAl 128]

The problem isn't just that guns are easy to find, its that the guns are persistent across all servers.

Certain items are never dropped but just get passed on to someone else because of the items high value.

So because of the persistence they become the only items you find in tents, vehicles and on players after a certain amount of time.

It is possible that after a month or two of playing without resets all tents on all servers will hold thermals because of the amount of people that keep that gun over other guns.

Oh I won't argue that there isn't balance issues, just that degradation is as much fun as dental surgery. Hunting rare ammo for an exotic gun is one thing, having it turn to dust is another. With the first you have the option to cart around a huge lump of metal in the hope of finding ammo for it or abandoning it. Degradation mean you're just scared to use the weapon because it has a limited life. It's unfair and unfun.

All I can say is, go play System Shock 2. Well soon see if anyone still think degradation is a good idea.