Realism & Weapons

[andyjt 1]

ONE MAJOR COMPLAINT : With as realistic and unforgiving as the game is, it is absolutely ridiculous to prevent players from defending themselves using everyday objects, or even via means of basic primitive instincts (fists and feet).

This game is practically a survival horror simulator - very realistic, very diffcult, VERY unforgiving - and your ONLY means of defense (as far as I know of) are firearms and a variety of grenades......and that's it!

If realism is what DayZ is going for, they hit the nail on the head on everything except the weapons system because I can tell you right now, if zombies were to ever one day overrun the world, I'd be using anything and EVERYTHING as a weapon just as anyone else would be that was fighting to stay alive.

Adding more weapons into the game would not only give people more of a chance to defend themselves (and actually live longer), but would also keep with the realism of the game and even enhance the experience.

Some suggestions for weapons:

- bricks, stones, etc.. (which can be used to deliver blows or can even be thrown)

- sharp objects (knives, broken bottles, glass shards, etc...)

- wood (plywood, 2x4's, planks, baseball bats, bed posts, large broken tree branches, etc...)

- tools (large wrenches, tire-iron, hammers, crowbars, nail gun, power-drill, scythe etc...)

- kitchenware (pots, pans, forks, etc...)

- your own hands (punch, shove, strangle, break necks, bones) and feet (kick, stomp, etc...) <--- I was REALLY surprised to learn that you couldn't defend yourself even by these means!

- household items (candle sticks, fire pokers, folding chair, electric guitars, etc...)

Now, this list could go on and on and on, but you get the point. The best thing of all, however, is that NONE of these items would detract from the realism of the game, nor would it take the game in any different direction. These weapons would merely enhance the experience.

Imagine you've caught the attention of a zombie, and you frantically run unarmed toward a deserted house looking for a place to hide when all of a sudden you spot a brick. You pick it up, hurl it at the zombie's head as hard as you can, and BAM!! The brick smashes into the zombie's face, it falls over (still alive, and trying to stand back up), and you quickly run over and stomp the crap out of the zombie's head to finish the job. Now THAT is realistic, and super intense!

Again: With as realistic and unforgiving as the game is, it is absolutely ridiculous to prevent players from defending themselves using everyday objects, or even via means of basic primitive instincts (fists and feet).

In short, I want to see a MUCH more broad array of weaponry, and NOT just firearms or grenades.

Thoughts?

Edited August 16, 2012 by kain_4516

[Max Planck 7174]

You have to take the limitations of the engine into account, hand-to-hand has been confirmed for the standalone though.

[Hampi90 0]

You can at least use hatchet and the crowbar to kill zombies. The hatchet is very good if you want to move stealthy trough a town.

[Bobcomss 189]

Yeah more Melee is planned I think for stand-a-lone

Think ARMA engine struggles with Melee anyway lol :P

AJ

[grezvany13 56]

Please note that DayZ uses the same engine as ArmA 2 (it's even a mod), and usually soldiers (since it's a militairy simulator) won't use their hands or random items to kill someone (or something).

I do agree it would be great to have more day-to-day items and homemade weapons in DayZ, but since the engine was never intended to have this it will take time to build it.

Rocket already stated that this is on the wish list for the standalone game, and due the possibilities they'll have by going standalone I'm sure it will be available.

[xximrtwoixx 104]

Does anyone ask themselves why melee weapons or melee combat itself is not present in RV engine?

It's because it has been created to assist with training soldiers for combat, and you should never seek to engage in melee combat. Range is a huge tactical advantage, going into melee combat throws away your advantage and exposes you to injury. A silenced weapon coupled with range > knife to throat, there is less risk. The image of a SF soldier knifing a sentry is complete BS fabricated for movies.

In DayZ people are desperate and unarmed thus improvised weapons or melee weapons should have a small place I think. They should be an afterthought though, as they would/should only be used until you find a gun. Just as a handgun is *really* only used to kill/defend until a rifle is aquired/functional.

The second point to consider with melee combat in DayZ is that the infected feel no pain, emotion, and do not care about their own survival. This would greatly increase their effectiveness even unarmed against an opponent in hand to hand combat. You would basically have to kill one with one attack in the .5 seconds that they are within range before they reach you, not only are most weapons incapable of this, but virtually no one is trained in a martial art that is designed to do this. If this were 1200AD maybe, but its not, so the training and weapons required to fight this way are non existent.

The third point against melee combat, but especially knives is that if they do "authentic" damage compared to bullets or an axe they are useless. Thus they must be implemented as garbage insta kill weapons for "balancing" and IMO that means they should not be implemented.

If you say "no" they should be realistic then consider the following.

Lets examine this, a 9mm round does almost 900 damage, a FMJ round will break through bones and exit the body. A knife, even a "combat knife" not a "hunting knife" will do 4-6 inches of penetration via a direct stab and maybe an inch via a slashing attack. Individual attacks thus would be less damaging than a 9mm round, meaning you would have to hit a player character more than 15 times with the weapon and a Z more than 6.

Do you think this would be a usefull weapon or that it would serve a purpose in game and thus be worth the development time taken to implement the weapon and annimations?

[Thom_Dee 9]

Lets examine this, a 9mm round does almost 900 damage, a FMJ round will break through bones and exit the body. A knife, even a "combat knife" not a "hunting knife" will do 4-6 inches of penetration via a direct stab and maybe an inch via a slashing attack. Individual attacks thus would be less damaging than a 9mm round, meaning you would have to hit a player character more than 15 times with the weapon and a Z more than 6.

Do you think this would be a usefull weapon or that it would serve a purpose in game and thus be worth the development time taken to implement the weapon and annimations?

I think for the standalone this idea has merit and I'm glad to see that more melee has been confirmed for it. I also agree that compared to a gun, melee weapons should be next to useless, unless and this is a big one YOU HIT THEM IN THE HEAD, random panicked slashing and bludgeoning shouldn't be rewarded. In this regard even the hatchet is overpowered in the zombie war at the moment. 1 or 2 swipes to the head to kill or 2-3 to the legs to disable should be the only effective strategy with these weapons.

In the long run I think any military hardware should be a struggle to come across with ammo being worth its weight in gold, if an infection broke out in the UK I can be pretty sure there woulldn't be marauding bandits with AS50's and assault rifles being common currency, Farmers shotguns and rifles would be the common firearm and even those would be fairly sparse.

I remember spawning for the first-time with nothing but a flashlight in the middle of a zombie apocalypse and it was terrifying, it was also the best gameplay experience I've ever had which is why I love how this game is developing. With the hacking duping and exploiting that's rife in the game at the moment, aswell as the limitations of the engine this isn't necessarily the right time to move in that direction but for a standalone I'm looking forward to how this is gonna turn out.

N.B Before anyone flames.. Comment regarding AS50's doesn't make me think these should be removed from the game, I just think you should be able to consider yourself one of the luckiest people in the world if you wash up on a beach and have managed to find one of these"