Surviving. Really?

[z4ndman 12]

So here we go.

Having played Dayz since may, I have followed the ®evolution of this mod quite closely, as it was the first time I had ever experienced a game that pushed the boundaries of player interaction and ingame immersion so profoundly.

There seems to be a general consensus that this game is about survival in its most basic form, and that as long as you have enough to eat and drink, and maybe even have a big gun, this makes you a "winner".

The debug stats seems to be agreeing with this, as they vigorously keep you updated on how cold you are, how much "life" you got, how much grub you got in the stomach and when you need a soda pop.

furthermore they keep tabs on your amount of kills. Player and zombie alike, and there is even a topscore chart available for the server you are currently on!

If these where the only information you were given about the game, it draws a picture of a glorified FPS with a tad more depth than the average shooty-shoot. Really nothing more.

But in my opinion, none of these factors are what makes this mod worth playing. It is not the desperate hunt for consumables and equipment, nor the horror of the "infected" that make this mod so unique. It has all been seen before.

It is the player interaction.

By taking the concept of a default manshoot and stripping it of its primary objective (shooting people in the face), a whole new dynamic relationship within the game-space is created.

You do not necessarily have to shoot people, you are given a choice. Think about that.

This mechanic is what gives the mod (in my opinion of course) its strongest aspect, but like human trust, also the most vulnerable.

The people that choose to play with friends (myself included), or/and adapt the attitude of "killing everything" is missing out on some of the most interesting ideas the mod has.

Also, there are a ton of people arguing that once you have had the "ultimate" gun, found a vehicle etc, there are nothing left to do than pvp, ultimately arguing that survive to live is the goal. This is not only a silly circular argument, but also wrong.

The social aspect of the game; being able to talk and interact with everyone on the server gives a player powerful tools to experience a large range of emotions (mistrust, desperation, companionship, loyalty etc) with people half a world away, that the player will probably never see, or (when someone inevitably dies) meet again.

These fleeting moments of true human interaction within a fantastical setting is what potentially makes every gaming session for the player an unique experience.

For instance: one time you could be a small group of randoms, that are having fun for hours untill a zed sneaks up on you and takes one of you down. Another time, the guy you thought was cool has put two in your back. you never know. This is the bauty of Dayz.

A problem arises, when butthurt players say "fuck it, ima be a bandit 'cause y'all keep shootin' my @zz!".

Compare the comment (which can be seen in numerous variations across the forum) "silly carebears, never going near crowded areas 'cause they're afraid to get shot" with the argument "I shoot everyone because I have been shot so many times by noobs and griefers OMGWTFBBQ"

The double standards regarding this attitude should be apparent.

Both player groups (carebear-loners & homicidal bandits) believe so intensively that the goal of this mod is to "survive" by all means, that they are willing to give up on the primary thing that makes this mod great, the human interaction.

The shift of the ingame priorities are so profound, that the game is not as much played ingame, as it is played "outside" as a metagame.

The Dr. Wasteland thread is a good example of how bad things are, and how paranoid people have become ingame. You actually need to go to a forum to find a "certified" medic instead of yelling to that dude walking past you ingame, because you are afraid that he will blow you away.

This, together with the huge explosion in "clan seeking people/people seeking clan" threads indicate that what made Dayz an interesting game with social features never before seen in a game to that extent, has taken a major blow.

It is interesting to trawl the forum and see that so many players are so obsessed with "surviving".

It is also interesting to see how many players that have "survived" come to the conclusion that the only other thing to do ingame is to shoot people. Social phobia anyone? Or maybe missing a mic? I dunno, but it is curious.

To finish off:

A lot of threads debating wether or not you should shoot people always include the "its just a game" argument in a ways that it is beneficial for the guys that clearly enjoy shooting people in the face.

I would like to twist it a bit by saying to the people using the argument "I kill on sight because u might be an a-hole" that they should stop being so butthurt about it (just a game remember?), and start realising that twenty minutes of playtime with a total stranger might actually be worth the 10-20 shots to the face it will take to find that individual.

This is my personal experince anyway.

cheers B)

[SimplyFresh 0]

I'm all for grouping with strangers and making friends. I have always found that aspect of the game is severely lacking, but when it comes to fruition, it's quite the grand experience.

However, NOBODY does this, therefore, I have become a Bandit and always will be until people change their mentality of the game.

For crying out loud, I got shot while running on the coast line. Just before I died I saw him crouching behind a brush as I ran by. What are people trying to gain? I suppose the thrill of the kill is enough for them.

What we need in this game is, "FACTIONS". Perhaps a little to sophisticated for a game like this, and to be honest, the Mod itself (in terms of concept) is not complex at all. It's simply a survival zombie simulator.

We've seen it and played it before. Eventually, the developers of DayZ need to consider reinforcing the foundation of what DayZ was supposedly built upon, "Zombie Survival". Not "PvP Human Survival", which is what this Mod has become.

[lordopeth 274]

Again we are testing Rockets POC as the games is still very young in its development.

I agree, I love the sand box idea of the game but I belive there has to be some sort of system put in to make the threat towards the zombies rather than the players. Dont get me wrong I love the PVP element aspect of the game but dying should be like WTF!!!! that was awesome rather than a "sigh" respawn.

I know I like to read and watch the videos of people getting robbed and taken to a place to fight for their survival. Rather than spawning and getting sniped.

Edited August 14, 2012 by opeth

[Toffe (DayZ) 7]

I'm all for grouping with strangers and making friends. I have always found that aspect of the game is severely lacking, but when it comes to fruition, it's quite the grand experience.

However, NOBODY does this, therefore, I have become a Bandit and always will be until people change their mentality of the game.

For crying out loud, I got shot while running on the coast line. Just before I died I saw him crouching behind a brush as I ran by. What are people trying to gain? I suppose the thrill of the kill is enough for them.

What we need in this game is, "FACTIONS". Perhaps a little to sophisticated for a game like this, and to be honest, the Mod itself (in terms of concept) is not complex at all. It's simply a survival zombie simulator.

We've seen it and played it before. Eventually, the developers of DayZ need to consider reinforcing the foundation of what DayZ was supposedly built upon, "Zombie Survival". Not "PvP Human Survival", which is what this Mod has become.

We basically have factions, Bandits and Heroes, and Survivors in between.

I lol'd when i read "I have become a Bandit and always will be until people change their mentality of the game."

You can't wait for everyone to change, you have to do something as well..

I've been killed countless of times for no particular reason, but i'm not going on some vengence rampage just because of it. If i did, i would be just like them.

Edited August 14, 2012 by Toffe

[MastaOfDisasta 30]

TLDR

[Jepix 20]

I'm all for grouping with strangers and making friends. I have always found that aspect of the game is severely lacking, but when it comes to fruition, it's quite the grand experience.

However, NOBODY does this, therefore, I have become a Bandit and always will be until people change their mentality of the game.

For crying out loud, I got shot while running on the coast line. Just before I died I saw him crouching behind a brush as I ran by. What are people trying to gain? I suppose the thrill of the kill is enough for them.

What we need in this game is, "FACTIONS". Perhaps a little to sophisticated for a game like this, and to be honest, the Mod itself (in terms of concept) is not complex at all. It's simply a survival zombie simulator.

We've seen it and played it before. Eventually, the developers of DayZ need to consider reinforcing the foundation of what DayZ was supposedly built upon, "Zombie Survival". Not "PvP Human Survival", which is what this Mod has become.

Factions would be great, and that people from the same faction CANNOT shoot eachother, otherwise factions would be useless again as people will still go out alone...

[lordopeth 274]

Factions would be great, and that people from the same faction CANNOT shoot eachother, otherwise factions would be useless again as people will still go out alone...

This I can't agree with. I like the idea of trust noone still.

The threat needs to be the zombies. The idea is that even bandits are trying to survive the zombie infestation as well here. No just the survivors. Its not unrealistic to think and keep separate for a hero and bandit to team up because of the threat.

There are factions. Bandit and Heroes. The problem is the 2 different goals. Whereas if the 1 true goal was to survive (thus being a survival simualtor) the zombies then we can see a shift towards something else.

Then what happens after that is fair game.

Dont flame me to hard. lol

Edited August 14, 2012 by opeth

[z4ndman 12]

Factions would be great, and that people from the same faction CANNOT shoot eachother, otherwise factions would be useless again as people will still go out alone...

-And then we could call it "generic team-deathmatch FPS with looting". Really guys you can not solve the problem by forcing people in to groups. The Freedom to do what you want in the gamespace is what makes Dayz interesting.

We basically have factions, Bandits and Heroes, and Survivors in between.

I lol'd when i read "I have become a Bandit and always will be until people change their mentality of the game."

You can't wait for everyone to change, you have to do something as well..

I've been killed countless of times for no particular reason, but i'm not going on some vengence rampage just because of it. If i did, i would be just like them.

-This. There has to be a certain attitude towards playing the game. True it sucks to die 2k times, but always consider if you are doing everything you can to appear as a non-combatant.

[ZlobaRUS54 441]

There should not be any enforced mechanic as per Rocket's vision, but players must be given tools to create own communities. Right now a major roadblock is lack of in-game communication for organizing, it's basically a mute, illiterate society so KOS is quite a reasonable approach in this situation. A way to organize and direct such as radios and billboards would help a lot.

There is also needs to be a way to identify individuals, the total anonymity of identical looking individuals is not authentic and removes the burden of taking responsibility for your actions.

Edited August 14, 2012 by ZlobaRUS54

[z4ndman 12]

There should not be any enforced mechanic as per Rocket's vision, but players must be given tools to create own communities. Right now a major roadblock is lack of in-game communication for organizing, it's basically a mute, illiterate society so KOS is quite a reasonable approach in this situation. A way to organize and direct such as radios and billboards would help a lot.

This would be awesome. It is true about the illiterate idiots running around KOS'ing, and more ingame tools to promote coop would definately help. My personal attitude is also that a simple tweak of removing the debug monitor could do alot to change gameplay.

Removing the debug info about how many you have killed (z's and players) would be a small but significant tweak as it would render a murder "meaningless" for a stat-addict. Also, it would just make sense that you wouldn't have a floaty-board telling you that you have killed 44 zombies, 2 bandits and 6 survivors...

Actually, it should only have your blood-level as all the other stats are more or less trivial.

Generally I feel that Rocket & co. should be very careful about the whole statistic-thingy as it could promote unintentional player behaviour (I'm the most murdering psycopath in all of Chernarus! Yay me! :P)

[z4ndman 12]

And one more thing; the game should be hard as fucking nails. I want my respect for the poor infected back. First time I played I was scared shitless, now I just run in circle about the poor guys :rolleyes:

[ironman Tetsuo 181]

However, NOBODY does this,

you personally know all 1 million+ players?

Your facebook must be a nightmare to navigate...

I don't shoot on sight

[dagon (DayZ) 17]

the leaderboard is a server side feature i believe. i have been on hardcore servers with it disabled except on log out. so you cannot check it. I believe all servers should be hardcore. with no third person , no targeting HUD. no mouse over tags. forces you to use the look key. you become even more engaged in the world.third person imo ruins the immersion i feel for this environment. I do not veiw the dr wasteland thread as harshly as you do. I see your point but i also see it as a alternative to the shoot on site no trust game play. IT helps build more trust among players just as it provides data that people do mistrust. Its showing that people are taking matters into there own hands and people are willing to help even though they may be a minority in the game world.

[dagon (DayZ) 17]

And one more thing; the game should be hard as fucking nails. I want my respect for the poor infected back. First time I played I was scared shitless, now I just run in circle about the poor guys :rolleyes:

the infected were never hard. it was our inexperience that made it seem this way. Since we are now vets of Chenarus. You can still see new players crying over infected because they do not have the experiences to deal with them.

[Stantia 0]

AND, the game is only in alpha, there will be a lot of very cool things in the standalone game, like building huts etc..

[dagon (DayZ) 17]

AND, the game is only in alpha, there will be a lot of very cool things in the standalone game, like building huts etc..

Is there a feature list?

[Noose (DayZ) 23]

Usually I'm pretty good at reading walls of text. This one made my mind wander so far away it has yet to return. tl;ttr?

[BlindProphet 34]

I'm not sure where "Zombies need to be the threat" argument is coming from, because its absolutely false.

Now Zombies do need to be an almost ever present hazzard. They need to be constantly there, constantly something you have to deal with. But they don't need to be super dangerous by themselves. Heck to me Zombies should essentially be along the lines of an environmental hazzard, like weather.

Why? Because there's only ever going to be so much you can do with zombies, and they're never going to be a real threat. Players and their interactions are the threat. Not knowing if that guy you just saw duck into the building is friendly or not. If he's going to backstab you in the next hour or not. And so on and so forth. The popularity of The Walking Dead has essentially proven this to be something awesome.

Now to the guy who's going to be a bandit till everyone treats the game different... So you're telling me you're going to perpetuate the style of play you hate until people you're forcing into that style of gameplay that you hate stop doing what you're programming them to do via your actions? Well enjoy that...