Why I host a non-hive server

[Mrdk 50]

Mods and critics, I humbly request you read all the way through before deciding to criticize this post or suspend me.

Before I begin I feel its important to state right now that this is not an advertisement. I will speak of my communities server, but I will not link you to it.

By default all DayZ servers are connected via a shared player database known as the hive. If your playing on hive servers, you may have noticed times when the hive lagged you out from connecting. Due to the popularity of DayZ the hive database management server has been unable to keep up with demand at peak usage times. Though temporary it is annoying and sometimes the singular hive server itself goes down - and when it goes down you can't play on any hive servers!

Alongside the occasional log in issues on hive servers other problems also present themselves such as hive server hoppers (hopping from server to server with their character, usually in a good sniping position or something like that).

In addition, rocket (DayZ developer) has hive servers on a complete lockdown. Admins have next to no rights on their own servers that they physically own. It is ridiculous, and it is for that and many more reasons that we have non-hive servers today. In our non-hive server, your player save is isolated to our server and database. So not only do you lose the problems of the hive right here (and at roughly 150 other nonhives!) you also gain the comfort of playing on servers with admins that are actually capable of doing things and aren't locked down by ridiculous agreements and blatantly unfair rules that only hurt admins of hive servers and help hackers.

Sure, you might encounter a few bad admins that cheat or abuse the power they have hosting a non hive server. But the thing is at least half of all non-hive servers appear to have awesome admins (including mine, but perhaps I have a slight personal bias). Its just a much more stable enviroment.

Let me be clear: I have nothing against the idea of a hive and hive servers. I have a problem with the execution of it. You had two hive servers, you shut one down and then popularity skyrocketed. Now what? Now we can't login half the time especially at peak hours. Now we play on non-hives. And we notice something when we (referring to the community here in general) play nonhive servers: The lag is gone. Another thing we notice is that the good admins of decent servers who are putting in an honest effort have the power to keep their servers clean.

Last night, my server got thunderdomed by a hacker. We had caught and banned his friend for scripting himself in an AS50. His response was to thunderdome the server. The result? The hacker was banned in less than a minute of his attack, the server was quickly shut down and restarted, and people who were teleported were escorted away by admins from our server (while I was busy sifting through the database and various logs to confirm what just happened) and encouraged to continue playing the game as normal.

You made an amazing mod, a type of game that people have been waiting to play for years. You create something epic, awesome and amazing for millions of gamers out there who have been waiting for something like this - and what do you do? You pull Admin rights and put users up first? Should we get rid of all the police in the world because a few of them are bad cops? No. The bad cops are the MINORITY. Both in (most) police forces, and in DayZ server admins.

An admin abuses his powers? You blacklist him. You ban his GUID from the hive. Maybe you even give him a Battleye ban as well. You punish HIM. You do NOT punish every admin in the hive by severely limtiing their abilities and creating a system. This is the completely wrong approach. Its wrong and its disgusting. You are punishing the people who pay you to run a restricted server they have no control over. Obviously there is something very seriously wrong here.

I have never run a hive server. I'd like to think if I had started playing DayZ sooner perhaps I would have. I only started up, about 10 days ago. Now I'm hosting a nonhive server on a dedicated box. Its great. Loads fast, holds a buttload of players and if some script kiddie comes in and starts running stuff, he's usually out the door before any harm can come from it.

Oh, not to mention I can also whitelist my server if I decide the hacking attacks become too frequent. I can whitelist based off user GUID's.

Oh, not to mention I can also modify the database and fix problems. I have the ability to restore items that are lost due to bugs. If a player reports the loss of a backpack (say, from grabbing another backpack without putting his down) I have the ability to goto my database and restore his backpack. I also have the ability to look in various caches, logging and a secondary redundant database that contains older data in order to confirm the loss. Then I can just restore it. Its just that easy.

Why would I want the rights and power to do that? Well I wouldn't - not on a hive server anyway. What I want the right for is the right to run and talk about non-hive servers without getting suspended or removed from the forums. We deserve full support, just as much as any hive server admin. We deserve equal rights, we are not doing anything wrong. We are providing a service to a community in need. We are filling demand for private hive servers. We NEED support.

You ever play a MMORPG? You ever see a GM (gamemaster) within one of those games? Thats an admin. He has all of the above abilities I talked about and more. he is policed by his superiors to ensure he does a good job and does not offer any player an advantage. And for the most part, that GM does do a good job. He restores lost and stolen items, investigates hacking and botting reports, recoveres scammed or stolen items depending on the game, he bans hackers, he mutes spammers.

So, why do I host a non hive server? I host a non hive server for security. I host a non hive server so I can control the hosting enviroment that my friends and I are paying for. I host a non hive server so the community that plays on it can play in a decent and secure enviroment. I host a non hive server because need be, I can whitelist it to a selected, trusted GUID list. I host a non hive server because I've hosted game servers for years and its common sense to have some form of control. I host a non hive server because the hive creates a large amount of problems.

And I protest very strongy against the whole push against non-hive servers coming from the developers. Stop shutting us out. We are future paying customers too. Hell, we'd probably be willing to pay a small fee to register as an official private hive server (even though there should be no additional charge for such a thing at all) Let us talk on your forums. We paid for arma, we are testing dayZ just like everyone else, and most of us players who play the game now will be buying dayz when it gets that standalone release.

And when the standalone is released. I will host a non hive server. I will host a non hive server because for the community growing around my server it is the right, moral and decent thing to do. If non hive servers dont show up on the list, we as non hive admins will find a way to get around it by providing ip connections or direct connect apps that launch right into the server. Who knows what we'll do. BUT WE WANT YOUR SUPPORT.

Thats why I host a non hive server.

Stop suspending people talking about this. What? Is it "against the rules"? You know, pot is illegal too but we can't point to a single death in medical history that can be directly attributed to marijuana consumption.

Talking and sharing non hive servers might be against some kind of rules or TOS or whatever, but that does not make it right. The Non-hive community is growing very fast. It deserves just as much support as the hive servers. Non hive admins tend to be much nicer people. They just want to play - and if crap hits the fan they have the power and ability to take care of it. Do not take that as a jab at hive admins. I have the utmost respect for you guys just for putting up with all the stuff that you have.

Let us host in peace.

Let us post in peace.

We are an equal part of this community.

Support non hive servers!

[suspense 210]

No - Go create your own game from scratch, then advertise your servers - Dont steal others work.

Thread reported.

[Viktoree 18]

Pls pm server info or website info, myself, my brother and cousin all would love a secure place to play. We recently lost a loaded camp site because the server we were playing on unexpectedly disappeared off the face of the earth. I'd give up my NVG's, GPS, Silenced Pistol and Camo to play on a server I know will be there day after day.

[Neek (DayZ) 53]

No - Go create your own game from scratch, then advertise your servers - Dont steal others work.

Thread reported.

As detrimental to rockets dev as they may well be. Private hives are the only real way to play the mod without all the annoying things you encounter on public servers.

Passwording them is not on tho imo.

[Viktoree 18]

No - Go create your own game from scratch, then advertise your servers - Dont steal others work.

Thread reported.

He's not stealing anything, he paid for ARMA and OA and downloaded Dayz for free just like everyone else. He already stated he'll be paying for DayZ when it goes standalone AND said he'd gladly pay for the right to host a non-hive private server. Did you even read his post or are you such a raging fanboy that anything not kissing the behinds of the DayZ team is considered blasphemy and must be reported?

[suspense 210]

As detrimental to rockets dev as they may well be. Private hives are the only real way to play the mod without all the annoying things you encounter on public servers.

Passwording them is not on tho imo.

Only reason private hives are more "stable" right now, is because its the underdog. Just wait until they become popular, it wont be any different.

He's not stealing anything, he paid for ARMA and OA and downloaded Dayz for free just like everyone else. He already stated he'll be paying for DayZ when it goes standalone AND said he'd gladly pay for the right to host a non-hive private server. Did you even read his post or are you such a raging fanboy that anything not kissing the behinds of the DayZ team is considered blasphemy and must be reported?

He is using modified code, its no different then pirating a game. And here he is, encouraging people to support other people that stole code. Dont matter whether he wanted to pay for standalone or not, he is still using Rockets work.

[Mrdk 50]

No - Go create your own game from scratch, then advertise your servers - Dont steal others work.

Thread reported.

Wow. I think you missed every single word I posted entirely there buddy. Why don't you go ahead and read the post?

Better yet, how about the 2nd line of the post?

Before I begin I feel its important to state right now that this is not an advertisement. I will speak of my communities server, but I will not link you to it

Yeah. Advertising. Right.

[suspense 210]

Wow. I think you missed every single word I posted entirely there buddy. Why don't you go ahead and read the post?

Better yet, how about the 2nd line of the post?

Yeah. Advertising. Right.

You are indirectly asking for support, whats the difference lol? Theres none.

[Mrdk 50]

He's not stealing anything, he paid for ARMA and OA and downloaded Dayz for free just like everyone else. He already stated he'll be paying for DayZ when it goes standalone AND said he'd gladly pay for the right to host a non-hive private server. Did you even read his post or are you such a raging fanboy that anything not kissing the behinds of the DayZ team is considered blasphemy and must be reported?

Thanks for the support man I appreciate it. Its nice to know somebody took the time to read my post.

He is using modified code, its no different then pirating a game. And here he is, encouraging people to support other people that stole code. Dont matter whether he wanted to pay for standalone or not, he is still using Rockets work.

Read my damn post there buddy. Using a server emulator is not akin to pirating software and your personal opinion does not change that fact. In fact, everything in here appears to be emulation and not stolen code. Get your facts straight. Furthermore, I bought Arma2+OA and downloaded DayZ just like you did. I also plan on buying the DayZ standalone. And I would be willing to pay for private hive support if the option was available.

If you're going to criticize, I suggest you read the content you're critizing. I am not the person you are trying to make me out to be.

[Viktoree 18]

Thanks for the support man I appreciate it. Its nice to know somebody took the time to read my post.

Read my damn post there buddy. Using a server emulator is not akin to pirating software and your personal opinion does not change that fact. In fact, everything in here appears to be emulation and not stolen code. Get your facts straight. Furthermore, I bought Arma2+OA and downloaded DayZ just like you did. I also plan on buying the DayZ standalone. And I would be willing to pay for private hive support if the option was available.

If you're going to criticize, I suggest you read the content you're critizing. I am not the person you are trying to make me out to be.

Check your private messages please

[suspense 210]

Thanks for the support man I appreciate it. Its nice to know somebody took the time to read my post.

Read my damn post there buddy. Using a server emulator is not akin to pirating software and your personal opinion does not change that fact. In fact, everything in here appears to be emulation and not stolen code. Get your facts straight. Furthermore, I bought Arma2+OA and downloaded DayZ just like you did. I also plan on buying the DayZ standalone. And I would be willing to pay for private hive support if the option was available.

If you're going to criticize, I suggest you read the content you're critizing. I am not the person you are trying to make me out to be.

You're right, emulating is not directly stealing code. It is exploiting code and/or using direct functions intended for something else, without the consent of the original creator.

I am not making you out to be anything, i actually like the idea of private hives and i think it could work with the right set of tools. What i dont like, is that people on here push it out on the official forums even though it is clearly NOT something that the Day Z team wants right now(but might in the future, Rocket has talked a bit about this).

When the time comes where Rocket allows for private hives, i bet he will publicly say so and let the forum have their own section, or however he finds it appropiate, until then, respect its his work, and that he does not wish it here at this moment.

[Ped 80]

May I ask what the benefits are for a private hive? Exactly what tools do you have that 'normal' server Admin do not? Outside of the obvious DB Manipulation.

[tnbdare 0]

non hive ftw

[AllDayZSimon 75]

No - Go create your own game from scratch, then advertise your servers - Dont steal others work.

Thread reported.

What all did Rocket do? Zombies were already in ARMA 2, as is the ability to take items from corpses. All he did was add weapons to the area worth killing for - Something that was already done in Dynamic Zombie Sandbox.

Should Rocket make a new idea because it's obviously 80% ripped content from ARMA 2?

[suspense 210]

What all did Rocket do? Zombies were already in ARMA 2, as is the ability to take items from corpses. All he did was add weapons to the area worth killing for - Something that was already done in Dynamic Zombie Sandbox.

Should Rocket make a new idea because it's obviously 80% ripped content from ARMA 2?

Nop, if you paid attention, you would have known that Day Z, the term, aswell as the mod code is at this moment, copyrighted work of Bohemia Interactive.

[disorder 344]

You know what, I say who cares what rocket 'wants'. He has devised a system that is unworkable. Until it gets addressed, people are going to keep 'enjoying' the mod and they will do everything they can to enjoy it and not let their enjoyment be ruined by others.

There is nothing legal, nothing to stand on. Because we have not accepted any agreement at all.

I've already opened the mod with PBO tools as I've made my own missions before, its nothing special, but that doesn't mean I'm a thief. I run my own private hive, but that doesn't make me an abusive admin.

This forum and mod could do with a lot less bigots and a lot more support and that support comes from liking the mod and that in turn comes from enjoying the mod.

So I say this to everyone. Stop being captain buzzkill. We're not the enemy OK?

Edited August 12, 2012 by disorder

[AllDayZSimon 75]

Nop, if you paid attention, you would have known that Day Z, the term, aswell as the mod code is at this moment, copyrighted work of Bohemia Interactive.

And Left 4 Dead was created because people liked killing Terrorists with knives in Counter-strike. GG Turtle Rock, get your own fucking ideas appearantly instead of taking them from your mother company!

[Ped 80]

What all did Rocket do? Zombies were already in ARMA 2, as is the ability to take items from corpses. All he did was add weapons to the area worth killing for - Something that was already done in Dynamic Zombie Sandbox.

Should Rocket make a new idea because it's obviously 80% ripped content from ARMA 2?

Uhm...

Dynamic Zombie Sandbox was created using the Arma2 script engine.

DayZ was created using the Arma2 script engine.

Are the scripts the same? There many be some similarities, but both games were made from the same script engine. How could there not be some similarities?

What I'm trying to tell you is...Rocket didn't steal anything from anybody.

[AllDayZSimon 75]

Uhm...

Dynamic Zombie Sandbox was created using the Arma2 script engine.

DayZ was created using the Arma2 script engine.

Are the scripts the same? There many be some similarities, but both games were made from the same script engine. How could there not be some similarities?

What I'm trying to tell you is...Rocket didn't steal anything from anybody.

And what I'm trying to tell you is that Rocket didn't "Create a game from scratch" like you morons seem to think. What's in DayZ that isn't in ARMA 2? A winchester and a fireaxe? Good work Dev team, you created a few weapons!

Edited August 12, 2012 by AllDayZSimon

[gwbrewer 49]

As long as the hive is shit.. might as well make it playable for ourselves.. There is no stealing going on here, and if anyone thinks it will get worse than the hive, they don't understand databases (ie MYSQL,SQL)

[suspense 210]

You know what, I say who cares what rocket 'wants'. He has devised a system that is unworkable. Until it gets addressed, people are going to keep 'enjoying' the mod and they will do everything they can to enjoy it and not let their enjoyment be ruined by others.

There is nothing legal, nothing to stand on. Because we have not accepted any agreement at all.

I've already opened the mod with PBO tools as I've made my own missions before, its nothing special, but that doesn't mean I'm a thief. I run my own private hive, but that doesn't make me an abusive admin.

This forum and mod could do with a lot less bigots and a lot more support and that support comes from liking the mod and that in turn comes from enjoying the mod.

So I say this to everyone. Stop being captain buzzkill. We're not the enemy OK?

Your right, its not legally wrong to create private hives. Thats not even the arguement i am pulling.

Its the fact that "private hive owners" complain that they are not allowed to discuss private hives/link/advertise to them on the offical forum, its the fact that they are not happy that they recieve no support.

This forum is Rockets, and his team. No, theres no term of service when using the mod code, but he can limit posts about it on his forum as he likes, which is what the day z team has been doing. So take your "communities" and "work" to your own forums, and there wont be any problem at all. But dont expect full blown support here, its obviously not supported.

[Ped 80]

And what I'm trying to tell you is that Rocket didn't "Create a game from scratch" like you morons seem to think. What's in DayZ that isn't in ARMA 2? A winchester and a fireaxe? Good work Dev team, you created a few weapons!

I have to say that perhaps your anger is blinding you to the underlying work Rocket has done. You are quiet ignorant if you think he has stolen 80% of the game from zombie sandbox or only created a few weapons. Perhaps you should go for a walk and maybe drink a nice cool glass of milk.

Edited August 12, 2012 by Ped

[Mrdk 50]

As long as the hive is shit.. might as well make it playable for ourselves.. There is no stealing going on here, and if anyone thinks it will get worse than the hive, they don't understand databases (ie MYSQL,SQL)

Agreed! Though I think the hive quality should not matter, we should have private hives with full support regardless. Though, the state of the hive system today really does help push the point.

You're right, emulating is not directly stealing code. It is exploiting code and/or using direct functions intended for something else, without the consent of the original creator.

Emulation is not about code exploitation or "direct functions intended for something else". You have no idea what you're talking about. Emulation is just that - emulation of software or hardware that already exists. It is not stealing. Further, emulation software for any type of soft or hardware is 100% legal virtually everywhere. Its not even a gray area. Its entirely Legal. Here, maybe this will help:

tr.v. em·u·lat·ed, em·u·lat·ing, em·u·lates

1. To strive to equal or excel, especially through imitation: an older pupil whose accomplishments and style I emulated.

2. To compete with successfully; approach or attain equality with.

3. Computer Science To imitate the function of (another system), as by modifications to hardware or software that allow the imitating system to accept the same data, execute the same programs, and achieve the same results as the imitated system.

I am not making you out to be anything, i actually like the idea of private hives and i think it could work with the right set of tools. What i dont like, is that people on here push it out on the official forums even though it is clearly NOT something that the Day Z team wants right now(but might in the future, Rocket has talked a bit about this).

When the time comes where Rocket allows for private hives, i bet he will publicly say so and let the forum have their own section, or however he finds it appropiate, until then, respect its his work, and that he does not wish it here at this moment.

And what about the meantime? Why not simply offer support or at least permit hive servers to operate without contest? Why not open a forum for discussion? Now seems like an awfully good time to do that don't you think?

May I ask what the benefits are for a private hive? Exactly what tools do you have that 'normal' server Admin do not? Outside of the obvious DB Manipulation.

You have full control over everything. Every possible setting. You have your own independant database and you have whatever redundant security measures you can possibly think of setting up at your disposal. Thats about the best description I can give without "possibly breaking forum rules" I think.

You know what, I say who cares what rocket 'wants'. He has devised a system that is unworkable. Until it gets addressed, people are going to keep 'enjoying' the mod and they will do everything they can to enjoy it and not let their enjoyment be ruined by others.

There is nothing legal, nothing to stand on. Because we have not accepted any agreement at all.

I've already opened the mod with PBO tools as I've made my own missions before, its nothing special, but that doesn't mean I'm a thief. I run my own private hive, but that doesn't make me an abusive admin.

This forum and mod could do with a lot less bigots and a lot more support and that support comes from liking the mod and that in turn comes from enjoying the mod.

So I say this to everyone. Stop being captain buzzkill. We're not the enemy OK?

Very well spoken.

[Disgraced 1123]

The DayZ dev team, led by rocket, is very busy building the mod he created.

Non-hive servers are not supported by the dev team at this time.

I am not here to argue the virtues or detriments of non-hive servers, but to support policy.

This thread being moved to off topic.

[AllDayZSimon 75]

I have to say that perhaps your anger is blinding you to the underlying work Rocket has done. You are quiet ignorant if you think he has stolen 80% of the game from zombie sandbox or only created a few weapons. Perhaps you should go for a walk and maybe drink a nice cool glass of milk.

Then please elaborate on what all Rocket has added to the game that wasn't already in the game/previous mods?