Playing DayZ for a week... an overview.

[lev 39]

Anyone who has seen what people do during riots (eg when law and order are powerless to do anything to stop them) knows that the veneer of civilization is very thin indeed.

Yes and as you have mentioned before, trying to suggest that human nature is one way or another is just plain silly and pointless. Human nature has been studied and questioned by greater minds and no conclusive answer has been obtained. To suggest otherwise just reveals the arrogance and/or ignorance of the poster.

[relentless@clear.net.nz 12]

On the flip side HWG, you could say Rocket achieved exactly what he was after..which was an emotional response from you. So much so that you jumped on the forum and posted about it.

I'm not insulting you, just saying it sounds like you had a strong emotional response to the event of getting shot in dark by some asshole which is one of the main aims. You had the range of emotions in the initial part of your characters life, to his ultimate demise.

[Overhang 3]

I mean this in the most respectful way possible, this game is not for you.

If rocket wants to sell as many copies as possible then he should probably listen to you. If he is content on creating a game for the original intended gamers then he should leave it pretty much as is minus bug fixes and improvements.

[Shroud8 3]

Are you kidding me? This the whole point of the game. It's not about shooting zombies with friends, its about surviving, and you failed. How do you know he was killing you for the lol? Maybe the lol was a "lol I cant believe you guys left yourselves so open."

Maybe you think the game is all about you and you and your friend can be "special" and survive and set up a tent somewhere with lots of gear, and you can, but you have to be careful. You spent 9 hours basically gathering supplies for another player. Why werent you smarter? Why did you allow yourself to be taken out by bandits so easily? It is NOT hard to travel safely between different locations.

I've played over 70 hours now, and the only times I've died in PVP are engaging in bean fights as a respawn in cherno/elektro or going to a KNOWN dangerous area, like the NW Airfield. I've been sniped in the NW Airfield and I knew going in full well that I was at risk of being sniped. My death was my own fault.

I have always taken utmost precaution travelling between towns, why did you even see a truck coming when you had your chemlights out? You should have been travelling in the woods. Trucks don't drive through the woods. Snipers have a harder time hitting targets in the woods. Clearly you put yourself in a vulnerable position, but you've learnt your lesson for the future.

This isn't like other games where you can run carefree because if you die you just respawn with all gear, it takes work and patience to gear up and get your survival kit and tents ready, treat them with utmost caution, act like the bandits are stalking you at all times.

You and your friend getting sniped means one of two things.

1. You were really unlucky

2. You were travelling in an unsafe manner.

I'd bet on #2.

You cannot do anything about #1, maybe you walk through the woods and someone logs in and happens to be behind you and kills you, maybe a glitch gets you, maybe you happen to stumble in the woods in front of another group and you just get unlucky. It happens.

But #2 is under everyones control, stay safe, spend a lot of time doing surveillance before entering any villages/towns and don't travel on the roads.

[Mochi (DayZ) 0]

I read all of the first page, but consider this. I've played for about 4 days now and I don't clarify myself as a bandit, I am in a group of 15 people. together we are strong. together we raid areas against other bandits or bandit groups. trust no one. Think of this as a real life situation, people are greedy, there will be little to no help. make a group band with each other get good gear. survive. most of all Trust no one. In this game, the game takes away civilization, meaning, there are little good guys and a lot of bad guys. But the 15 people that I found, we all found each other just by outnumbering them and asking them to join, if not we don't tell them they die, but they do. because of the unrealism of people talking in side channel saying "Hey what is your plan over by cherno?" and revealing our position and threatening our group. Take all caution as if you have $5,000 in your pocket walking in Compton. Those are the kind of odds that you have. Good luck.

[grieves (DayZ) 0]

Short story:

Coming out of Cherno north apartments, headed North. I run through the trees West of the North road. To my right about 200 metres away I see a bandit running along on the road with 5 or so zombies on his trail. He picks them off while running backwards using his m1911. I stalk him through the trees, trying to get a good shot looking down my AK-74 sights. He runs through some houses North of Cherno picking up a few more zombies. He then pulls out an AKM and starts to pick them off. At this point I'm sitting in the trees about 50 metres away with a clear shot. 3 bullets are fired from my gun, he goes down. I approach cautiously, quickly firing another two rounds to be sure he's gone.

I sit back in my computer chair, my heart is palpitating. I start thinking, my mind racing, "I just made someone lose their work". He could have worked really hard for all the survival gear and weapons that he had. Suddenly, I start to feel bad. I feel guilt, even though I can justify my actions by saying that he was a bandit who probably killed and stole for the items he had, I still feel bad.

Since then I have killed people and been killed by people in many situations from beanspawn to heavily-geared PvP to group firefights and every single time, the same feeling I got from the Bandit on the road comes back.

I agree with the OP and yet I can also totally agree with the opposite argument, that this is what makes the game completely visceral and unique. As of right now, however, I don't think I'm having fun playing this game and if something gets implemented to change my game experience I'll come back for another go.

[Cataclaw 3]

Read the homepage.

Average life expectancy; 28 minutes.

[Sminky 5]

The end of DayZ will be because of people like you.

Sandbox titles have died off due to changes the developers made by listening to a VOCAL minoirty. Even if you look at the dayz survey' date=' only about 6 percent of the population has a problem with bandits.

Once you take away player freedom, you destroy the amount of player made content you can generate, which makes the game very stale and bland. It takes away the emotion filled heart pounding aspect that a few sandbox titles are known for. The funnest times ive had in this game was grouping up with survivors I met, doing our own objectives to gather supplies, and having shootouts with bandits who tried to stop that. If that freedom was taken away, I doubt many people would still be playing. Taking away PvP would make this game RIDICULOUSLY easy. The best part about this game is knowing your going to die, take that away and you take away much of the tension and suspense that a zombie survival game should contain.

Theres plenty of other non pvp zombie games out there, Id suggest you check out those.

[/quote']

that's just it, the vocal minority post here, and most say the date of Bandits is more or les ok. I'd imagine a mass of people who experince it will just go 'screw this' and never play again. Without posting on these forums.

The minimun that needs to be done is have proper incentives not to always kill on sight / team up.

The worst thing that could happen to this mod is if PVP is removed.

[Izo Azlion 3]

You're new to ARMA and new to DayZ and then you think its unjust that two of you died to one guy?

Sorry but you were probably moving like a bull in a china shop and stuck out. Instead of playing "hey we're innocent survivors" why don't you play "This environment is out to kill me, everything not on teamspeak is out to kill me. I will avoid and/or defend myself."

Two friends and I got in and out of the NW airfield the other night despite knowing there was at least 3 other people around the same area. We did it with care, we didn't aggro a single zombie and we got two player kills, one from long range, because people seem to think that sitting on top of buildings is a good idea.

You didn't lose because you died. You've lost because you've thrown in the towel so quickly.

[GK_Buba 0]

Awsome story HWG, I had a similar experiance and could not wait to get back and do better that time.

Look at it this way; you and your friend had alot of fun for NINE hours from a free mod.

Learned alot, get a feel of the game and got unlucky at the end by your own failings.

Also, evryone dies.

Really its not a matter of if, but when.

Really, imagine if you got all the equipment you could ever want. The game would become very boring.

Starting fresh is a chance to do better, or play in a differnt way.

[jeremiahn 7]

Awsome story HWG' date=' I had a similar experiance and could not wait to get back and do better that time.

Look at it this way; you and your friend had alot of fun for NINE hours from a free mod.

Learned alot, get a feel of the game and got unlucky at the end by your own failings.

Also, evryone dies.

Really its not a matter of if, but when.

Really, imagine if you got all the equipment you could ever want. The game would become very boring.

Starting fresh is a chance to do better, or play in a differnt way.

[/quote']

^^ THIS.

Get your thrills surviving while you can; enjoy the journey. The only destination is the beach with a makarov.

[baleur 0]

I agree with the op. This is why you can't make a game 100% realistic.

Because in a game NOBODY has their life on the line.

NOBODY has to face the real trauma of MURDERING another human being.

They are just pixels in the distance, who cares if they die?

Also there is a massive pre-pubertal playerbase that is under the false impression that irl people would just turn around and murder eachother for a can of baked beans.

This would not happen. The vast majority of people in this world have never killed a single person, nor have the desire to do so. This is why our society works, this is why economy works. This is why you don't have murder sprees in the streets irl every weekend when someone gets drunk. This is why knowing someone that actually got murdered is a very rare occurance irl.

Quite a few scientific sociological studies have shown that not only animals, but also humans, always strive to work together as it is an evolutionary requirement for prolonged survival.

This is why deer don't murder eachother to get the next patch of grass to themselves, or why a pack of wolves dont kill their 'friends' to get the new freshly killed deer for themselves.

Cuz they'd be fucked from that point on, all alone.

This is something many of you will disagree on, and you will use the old myth "human nature" argument, that human nature is to destroy and be awful. Something which also is just a myth, since the vast majority of people in real life are neither murderers nor murder victims.

Someone lying about their taxes or a soccer mom that cheated on her husband doesn't equal them to being a murderer upon the first sight of a zombie.

END POINT ABOUT GAMEPLAY;

You can not have a 100% realistic survival game because killing another player is no big deal, since it never is a big deal because it is JUST A GAME.

You must have artificial limitations and 'supernatural punishments' for killing fellow players.

This is a game, and this is the internet. People are psychopathic murderers on the internet and in games, because it is NOT REAL LIFE.

There is NO PUNISHMENT, there is NO MORALE, NO REMORSE.

This is why, as much as i love this game and how hardcore it is, there must be some form of player-killing punishment or downside. Perhaps announce the killer's location on the map of all other players for 5min. Or perhaps cause him to lose some sort of stat that impairs his aiming, hunger/thirst or causes him to be in a constant shaky annoying sense of panic/frenzy.

There must be some penalty because this is never going to simulate real life, this is a game and there is no reason why players should be kind to eachother. There is no penalty, no morale and no emotional baggage to murdering eachother in a game. Therefor there is no question that people will be arseholes in a game. They have no reason not to be.

[arreally 4]

though your post was very whiney, you do come up with a good and very true point. going to groups does become a weakness.

in DayZ, safety in numbers really does not apply when the enemy would still take you head on with abandonment.

[andreamit 2]

OP you have to consider that you played those 9 hours not just for getting the loot which you lose by dying, but to explore the world and have fun. I also got angry the first time I was gunned down, but everytime i spawn again I set new objectives to myself and try to be more careful. The more you play the more you actually learn to stay alive and survive, and even if there's a bandit in the bush sometimes it's part of the game, pvp needs balancing of course, but punishing people for PKs it's damn wrong. you take away from this game one of the most hardcore features. this game is SUPPOSED to make you fear death constantly and while the zombie system has to be fully developed yet, players interactions are great because they are unpredictable: will that guy over there be friendly or just a bandit? I keep reading people in chats asking if playerXX is friendly or not, by removing or putting penalties to PVP you take away the tension of the game. You of course are free to think it is a bit too much hardcore but we only are at alpha stage and with time there will be tons of new and fixed features, like survivor camps where you leave your gear when you venture outside, or surv outpost where you can stay safe. just be patient or come back in 6 months.

[HWG 0]

Just wanted to point out I was given negative reputation for an opinion (a constructive opinion at that). Clearly, I struck a nerve and pissed in someones pie. If anything, it is simply a reflection of this community - and it is the community (not the game) that is the real problem. It harkens back to the original post. There is nothing wrong with DayZ, there is a fundamental problem with the community itself. The players are the real downfall. It's a shame too, but great ideas have been squandered by ravenous fanatics who are convinced that nothing is wrong (APB anyone? Countless titles that had potential and were killed by heavy divides in the community.), "Keep Calm and Carry On." mentality. Despite the looming problems, with again, the community and not the game itself (Which I think most of you have missed the point entirely of my post.)

If this is a community, then constructive feedback is necessary. Even if the idea isn't warranted at the time, feedback IS feedback. The problem is the majority (Omni, and a few select others excluded) don't understand that this is a work in progress, and what you might be mocking me for, may very well be implemented at some uncertain point in the future.

But the majority of you have shown your true colors, and it makes me wonder do I really want to play with a community like this. Perhaps I'll just throw up my own DayZ server on one of the many dedicated boxes I help run, and bring in 50-100 people who will want to be on that server. I never said get rid of PvP, I never criticized the actual gameplay mechanics. I criticized the majority of the people that this game has attracted. Who are for a lack of a better word, zombies themselves.

****

I noticed earlier that I was criticized by someone who said the reason I died is I was being careless and out in the open. Actually, we were travelling at night, in pitch black darkness under cover of tree and hillside. Can't get much more covered.

And I think more over I should point out that I'm not going to stop playing... and I never stated as such. I'm going to tough it out, if only to see where this goes.

[Mycaelis 12]

Just wanted to point out I was given negative reputation for an opinion (a constructive opinion at that). Clearly' date=' I struck a nerve and pissed in someones pie. If anything, it is simply a reflection of this community - and it is the community (not the game) that is the real problem. It harkens back to the original post. There is nothing wrong with DayZ, there is a fundamental problem with the community itself. The players are the real downfall. It's a shame too, but great ideas have been squandered by ravenous fanatics who are convinced that nothing is wrong (APB anyone? Countless titles that had potential and were killed by heavy divides in the community.), "Keep Calm and Carry On." mentality. Despite the looming problems, with again, the community and not the game itself (Which I think most of you have missed the point entirely of my post.)

If this is a community, then constructive feedback is necessary. Even if the idea isn't warranted at the time, feedback IS feedback. The problem is the majority (Omni, and a few select others excluded) don't understand that this is a [u']work in progress, and what you might be mocking me for, may very well be implemented at some uncertain point in the future.

But the majority of you have shown your true colors, and it makes me wonder do I really want to play with a community like this. Perhaps I'll just throw up my own DayZ server on one of the many dedicated boxes I help run, and bring in 50-100 people who will want to be on that server. I never said get rid of PvP, I never criticized the actual gameplay mechanics. I criticized the majority of the people that this game has attracted. Who are for a lack of a better word, zombies themselves.

****

I noticed earlier that I was criticized by someone who said the reason I died is I was being careless and out in the open. Actually, we were travelling at night, in pitch black darkness under cover of tree and hillside. Can't get much more covered.

HWG,

Although I can respect your position, I can't really agree with you.

The whole Bandit issue makes the game amazing for me...

This is my situation:

- I play with up to 6-7 of my friends, usually in a group of 3-4 at a minimum.

- I trust no-one else in the game.

- Anyone coming close to my friends and me is a threat.

- I will not announce that I see someone, or ask if they are friendly.

This essentially loses my element of suprise, almost levelling the playing field as the person or persons we see, will know they are being watched.

Sometimes, we die (Although mostly to silly things like laying down into trees, or accidently clicking respawn, instead of options).

- We generally kill on sight, although we have helped people on the odd occasion.

I can accept, that we may sound like a bunch of dicks, but the only thing I can say, is 90% of the enjoyment I have experienced in the game, has come down to combat with other players.

I played last night, my friends and I cleared out Starry Sobor, went to Air Field, cleared the barracks there and went back to Starry Sobor.. In this whole time, we only saw 1 other player, who was running like a maniac way in the distance.. This was an extremely boring night.

We're all pretty geared out, only lacking a few more NVG goggles, killing zombies is a chore, more than enjoyment, becuase we've become a quite powerful group, gear wise, killing 10-15 zombies in a single fight is not even a problem (except for me accidentally shooting a friend in the head.. he know's who he is..). We've explored almost the entire map, and the pretty much the only thing we really haven't done is fix up a chopper... so the main enjoyment comes from killing other people.

Helping players is well and all, but without the almost constant fear of being shot in the back, or sniped by someone, this game would have no atmosphere to me...

Although, to give ourselves a little bit of credit, we never go near the coast, and kill new players, we're generally in the middle of the map, moving between popular towns and landmarks, killing those in our way... people who should understand, if you're in Starry Sobor or NW Airfield, you are risking your life.. As we are.

I always expect to be killed in this places, which I have been, it's a part of the game and sometimes you need to accept it.

I seriously suggest you find friends, people you trust to play with, that security gives you so much, and with good, skilled players, you can rely on them to have your back, when you do something risky.

Forgive me if I've read your opinion wrong, and please feel free to counter any of my points.

But the whole tone of my message is, for me... without the constant fear of being shot by a random guy, this game just wouldn't have any atmosphere.. the adrenaline rush when you see 3 people in the distance running towards you, and your group of friends is something that I have not found again in over 10 years of FPS gaming... and it's what makes this game so appealing.

[HWG 0]

I can't really disagree with you Mycaelis, in fact many of the things you talk about I think are perfectly applicable and really drive the atmosphere in DayZ. But again, if we head back to Post #1, the original problem I have is that the game punishes group mentality and rewards lone wolf gameplay.

Have you ever seen a zombie movie, game, tv show or otherwise that solely pits you against the rest of the world alone, by yourself? I can't think of one. In fact, the natural instinct it seems for everyone in all these settings is group mentality. Look at Walking Dead, you have not individuals roaming around but groups that are roaming around. Sure, the groups feud over each other and there are people shooting at other people in other groups, but the fact remains that there really aren't even groups for bandits. Many people kill indiscriminately, that is not what would be happening. Look - even you are part of a group of a few friends who kill other people. You grouped up in response to the environment. But I can tell you, gathering those supplies and such was sure a hell of a lot more difficult as a group than you just getting exactly what you want when you found it.

I think there might be a rather simplistic solution to the problem... put more gear further out, and higher volumes of it. The other option is spawn players closer together in relativity to the major cities. Not IN the cities, but closer to them. So dying isn't a 40 minute walk towards Churnogorsk or Elektro. Food for thought.

[Mycaelis 12]

I can't really disagree with you Mycaelis' date=' in fact many of the things you talk about I think are perfectly applicable and really drive the atmosphere in DayZ. But again, if we head back to Post #1, the original problem I have is that the game punishes group mentality and rewards lone wolf gameplay.

Have you ever seen a zombie movie, game, tv show or otherwise that solely pits you against the rest of the world alone, by yourself? I can't think of one. In fact, the natural instinct it seems for [i']everyone in all these settings is group mentality. Look at Walking Dead, you have not individuals roaming around but groups that are roaming around. Sure, the groups feud over each other and there are people shooting at other people in other groups, but the fact remains that there really aren't even groups for bandits. Many people kill indiscriminately, that is not what would be happening. Look - even you are part of a group of a few friends who kill other people. You grouped up in response to the environment. But I can tell you, gathering those supplies and such was sure a hell of a lot more difficult as a group than you just getting exactly what you want when you found it.

I think there might be a rather simplistic solution to the problem... put more gear further out, and higher volumes of it. The other option is spawn players closer together in relativity to the major cities. Not IN the cities, but closer to them. So dying isn't a 40 minute walk towards Churnogorsk or Elektro. Food for thought.

I do agree that in some way. the game doesn't really help people playing on their own (i.e. without personal friends).

Since it's so easy for someone just to kill youand take your stuff, and with the player killers on the coast, someone on their own will probably not enjoy the game as much, from constantly being killed or shot by someone who pretends to be a "friend".

I can't say I've experienced, or want to experience that element of the game really, since I have always (and prefer to) played with my friends.

I think one of the more interesting suggestions I've seen / heard is the concept of player run towns, or at least, maybe just one...

No zombies, but an NPC guarded town, or possibly maybe just a town where PvP isn't allowed.. at least it gives you an area to meet up, trade gear, or group up with like minded people. It's not unreasonable, to have this situation if there were a zombie apocolypse, a certain group of people would no doubt setup their own territory and guard it themselves, allowing people to enter, but removing their weapons before they can enter (thus giving you the situation of PvP being disabled)..

Only problem with this I suppose is outside of the town will probably be a kill zone of the same player killers which you're trying to avoid.

It would at least give you the opportunity to find people who want to group, allowing that aspect to grow a little, rather than more "every man for himself".

Even allows people who want to role play and provide services, like blood transfusions, they can simply stay in the safe area and trade their way into business without ever leaving the safe area...

Maybe only 1 safe zone in the entire map.. it certainly opens up a lot more possible ways to play the game, without being too unreasonable from a real life situation.

[zarunil 0]

The fact that I can lose everything in a second is what makes the game interesting. I cannot trust anyone except my friends on TeamSpeak. The penalty of death is so harsh, it dictates the way I play.

Because of this mechanic most people tend to shoot first and ask questions later, including myself. I can see how this is problematic, and I understand the OP's frustration when dieing.

However, if I died it was because I was foolish or unlucky, usually the former. I learn from my death and it won't happen again, thus increasing my chance of survival.

I would like to see more cooperation between survivors, but not if the cost is making the game easier and more "casual".