Social Observation: Playing DayZ to not play DayZ

[nicraM 137]

I stopped reading a bit into OP's post when I realized there would be a QQ at the end.

I might be wrong, maybe, maybe not (heh).

Either way, you take me and anyone that plays like me out of the game (where I will KoS 8/10 times) and what do you have left?

An SP experience with broken AI and no real path or story line. Boring game-play that makes no sense and only a dullard would enjoy.

I understand the frustration of getting killed over and over again. The thing is, it is you, not I that needs to change.

Observe

Adapt

Overcome

or,

Die!

[st0nedpenguin@st0nedpenguin.org 25]

There is also strong influences from other games and movies. People expect things to work in a certain way, the same way sniper rifle users in games expect their target to drop from a single shot to the head. There is a lot of "movie logic" and "videogame logic" behind all this.

...I'm pretty sure that's not movie or videogame logic, taking a high velocity, large caliber round to the face isn't just gonna leave a scratch.

[The Sad Panda 113]

• Permadeath: People are specifically organising their game to avoid this mechanic. They love to talk about it and how "hardcore" it is, but they don't REALLY want it to apply to them. That would suck. And so they play with a group of friends, and organise it so that if and when anyone dies, they either race back to get their stuff, or their friends take it and hold it for them.
  
• Scavenging: This is a grey area, and comes in a variety of forms. Loot maps, server hopping and camping specific locations to get respawning equipment, and clan stockpiling. It is when a person is not wandering the wasteland/wilderness, stumbling across those rare finds, setting up a makeshift camps to store a couple of beans. Basically, when your gameplay stops representing hunter/gatherer type behaviour, and now resembles loot-agriculture.
  
• Stark finiteness of resources: Item duping, clan camps with all sorts of vehicles, unlimited ammo bugs. Lets be honest and say that the number of people running around with ghillies, sniper rifles, nvgs at the moment makes a bit of a mockery of the "rarity" of these items or the scarcity of resources. I think a significant portion of the community doesn't really want a stark finiteness of resources to apply to them.
  
• Disorientation/isolation: Some people just come right out and say they don't want this(I'm not one of them). Starting alone, unarmed, unsure, vulnerable on a beach. Having to find survivors. What kind of sucky game is this! They want to be able to start immediately with their (preferably well armed)pre-arranged friends.
  
• Spontenaeity of random social experiences: Part of this, I think, stems from the other aspects of "not playing DayZ". A lot of people are complaining that "everyone just shoots on sight". Now, I've been lucky enough to have a couple of social experiences where they don't, and they were almost always spontaneous encounters by chance, earlier on in the game, and specifically where the other aspects of "Playing DayZ" actually applied to us both. Scroll down the list above and think for a moment. Are the people who "Play DayZ to not play DayZ" going to shoot you on sight or take that chance to come talk with you? I think the former. They aren't in this for the "DayZ experience".
  

Before I begin, I'd like to point out that I'm not angry, I don't hate the OP's guts, but I do have differing opinions about the game, and would like to post them for the sake of discussion. Nothing more, nothing less

Perma-Death

I think some of this just stems from differing ways of seeing the game. Your first point for example. Perma-death is somewhat of an oddity in the gaming industry, for obvious reasons. That's not to say that it's BAD, but it does stand in stark contrast to the industries current model of

> Start new character

> Progress character

> Keep character on gear / xp treadmill

Why is this model so widely accepted by developers? Because it's believed that this will increase the longevity of the title. Now let's take a look at DayZ,

> No experience

> No specific skills

> "Progression" (if you can really call it that) is measured in your characters gear

The main penalty of perma-death isn't even present in DayZ, you don't have any XP or skills to lose. You can, essentially, dump all your gear into a tent except a bandage and pain-killers, and you've essentially "died". The death system in this game doesn't follow the same rules as other "perma-death" systems, because it's not LIKE other systems.

So that makes gear the current driving force in the world of post-infection Chernarus. Without the hunt for more and better gear, the game essentially turns into finding a field that spawns livestock that's also close to a watering hole. That's it, you've won the game - congratulations. Now proceed to survive to Day 100, you can't lose. You are right on the point that being able to re-aquire the same gear from your body diminishes the "perma-death" aspect of the game, but you're not looking at it from all angles here.

There is an established (Most would say over-developed at this point) culture of PKing, or Banditry in this game. The entire playstyle revolves around hunting other PLAYERS in order to take their GEAR. That's how they progress (Note, I'm speaking of actual Banditry, not LOL I BE SNIPIN AT CHERNO). Now, let's implement the style of perma-death found in other games - once a character dies, their gear disappears from the world forever. You've just killed an entire playstyle with that one change. I submit to the readers that the looting of player corpses (by friend or foe alike) is an integral part of the game. This is a survival sim, you should be able to scavenge everything possible. Now, gear degradation and damage....that's a whole nother ballpark. Gun begins to jam because it's improperly maintained? Better find a cleaning kit, or get a new gun. Your NVGs took a bullet when your last character was shot? Guess you've gotta find a new pair. Think about it.

Scavenging

Maybe we just see this issue differently, but I think a "Loot - Agriculture" type of system can be healthy for the game, not detrimental. Once you've got the basics of survival down, there's not much for you to accomplish anymore, aside from placing a bullet between another survivor's eyes. When you begin to set up a permanent residence, you stop surviving and begin to thrive - to rebuild "civilization" or so to speak. Now I will agree with you that server-hopping is wrong, it's against the risk/reward system that drives the game's atmosphere. Instead of having to carefully pick and choose what locations you visit to find the resources you need, it turns into "LOL made it to the barracks, better start hopping till I've got an M4 CCO SD and M107 with 6 mags each!!!! YOLO!!!!".

I'm divided on the external loot map situation, so let me explain - I use DayZDB's loot map.... but I don't want to. I want to be able to find a map in the game, and make PERSONAL notations on it. This vehicle can spawn here.... there's a supermarket and some high value residentials in this area of Beriz... Ect. Sadly though, I can't. Every notation I make on the map right now can be seen by everyone else on the server with a map. I would MUCH rather learn the loot by exploration, than by having it just handed to me, but it is what it is.

I also find nothing wrong with clan stockpiling as far as game mechanics are concerned. Me and my crew (3-4 others, not really a clan) had a camp setup on the large island at one point. We had a boat, tents with medical supplies, spare weapons, ammo, and food. It wasn't much, but it allowed us to partake in different aspects of the game more efficiently. We managed to locate and repair a helicopter, and a ground vehicle or two. Our base allowed us to streamline to the process because we didn't have to make constant stops in high-danger environments to pick up medical supplies and food, instead we were as a group able to do one-two trips to bring back enough goods to last for a few days. It all comes back to the concept of thriving in a harsh world.

And believe me, it is a harsh world. To anyone who believes that tent stockpiles are against the nature of the game, well you really do confuse me sometimes. Many people seem to forget that tents are not locked...they can be raided by other players (which they rightfully should be able to do), or even completely destroyed, taking all that was stashed inside with them. And believe me, it happens. My group has been set back to square one so many times it almost makes my head spin, but that's part of the game.... for every person seeking to thrive, there's another that wants to see the world burn - and that's what makes this game special.

Resources

I 100% totally agree. with over 400 man hours (group's combined total) we've only ever found two ghillie suits, ONE M107, and ONE pair of NVGs. Even accounting for supreme amounts of bad luck, it still doesn't explain why every sniper and their mother has NVG, Ghillie, AS50, L85 AWS backup in bag, and enough rounds to hold off a tank column.

I won't bother with the other two because I agree with the sentiment, in fact if there was a group-spawn implemented, I would lose alot of respect for the game.

I would like to add though that not every organized group KoS's. If we find a player (outside of NW airfield, that's a free-fire zone to us), one of us usually tries to approach the player while the others provide overwatch. Sure, we get shot in the face alot, but sometimes we do meet other players that are indeed "Friendly"

[st0nedpenguin@st0nedpenguin.org 25]

An SP experience with broken AI and no real path or story line. Boring game-play that makes no sense and only a dullard would enjoy.

Sandbox gaming isn't for you. You should be looking for Call of Battlefield duty 9.

[AryanBoogeyman 185]

I stopped reading a bit into OP's post when I realized there would be a QQ at the end.

I might be wrong, maybe, maybe not (heh).

Either way, you take me and anyone that plays like me out of the game (where I will KoS 8/10 times) and what do you have left?

An SP experience with broken AI and no real path or story line. Boring game-play that makes no sense and only a dullard would enjoy.

I understand the frustration of getting killed over and over again. The thing is, it is you, not I that needs to change.

Observe

Adapt

Overcome

or,

Die!

Then you have formulated a response without even examining the base material.

Fundamental FAIL.

[Honest Bill 37]

What i think this all boils down to is a lack of suitable conflict.. Itäs natural for people to want to survive in the game, we have their motivation, and we have antagonists, what there isn't is enough hardship in the game.

No story is ever successful without the protagonist having some kind of conflict to overcome that is genuinely difficult for whatever reason.. If people are surviving too easily in this game, it's because the game is making it too easy for them. You can't tell a player that their motivation is survival and then expect them not to try to accomplish that.. You must then, place restrictions on how he is able to do that..

Overcoming hardship and strife is not something anyone would ever actively seek to do, It is something people are forced to deal with, and because of their accomplishments against the odds, people feel more satisfaction because it was difficult to achieve. people will take the easiest route all the time. It's natural, so it is up to game designers to make sure that the easiest route is hard enough that it is satisfying.

If there were only one can of beans in the entire game, then getting a can of beans would be a massive achievement and sense of accomplishment...now people feel nothing when they find one.. The act or gameplay content hasn't changed, just how hard it was to accomplish. It's all relative really.

[AryanBoogeyman 185]

Panda- you bring up some good points as well. Excellent, well thought out post.

Much of the perceived lack of "end-game" content is a player problem not a game problem.

We as gamers have been force-fed the scripted event, xp treadmill, dumbed-down gameplay model for so long that DayZs true sandbox approach is just baffling to begin with.

We are truly only limited by our imaginations in DayZ and that seems to be the real problem for the majority.

All geared and bored? Try running as a medic, sign up with Freeside Trading Company and guard a player driven trade fair, start a bus service from Cherno to Elektro, hell run down to the beach and give everyone you see medical supplies and steaks. There is no limit except what we put on ourselves....

The central problem in relation to "end game" is our perceptions/expectations and not the game itself IMO.

[SpecOpsScott 20]

I like the OP's observations of the stark finite-ness of resources. After playing for several weeks, the group i roll with had found and set up a few well stocked camps with everything one would need to be completely geared out. My characters had been lasting on average about 2 weeks, so when i died i would run back to these camps and regear, sometimes taking far less than an hour to do it.

But at some point i realized that the big draw of this game, at least for me, was the working from the ground up aspect. There was a ton of fun to be had in gearing up as if it was your first time an you were utterly alone with no group support. Now when i die, which is much more often now as i go looking for trouble to add excitement, i do not run back to my body. I slowly work my way up the coast, or i will mad dash into cherno, electro, Balota or wherever the closest decent loot spawn site is. I guess it depends on my mood. Over the next couple of days i will play it like i did in the beginning and will inevitably stumble upon some tents to fill in the gear gaps that i might have.

Most of the members of my group dont really get it, they die then run right back to known locations of stocked tents. I find this a bit boring. I do have a stocked tent or two myself, but with med supplies and only a couple of extra guns, if its convenient for me to hit up i will do so, but i would prefer to loot a close by town for what i need.

Maybe that goes hand in hand with another aspect of my game play. I am still a friendly player. I will either stay concealed and allow others to pass unmolested, or i will attempt contact if they look like they could use some help ie: a lone survivor with patrol pack having a tough time with Zeds while attempting to gather supplies from a town. Thats part of the reason my average life has been cut in half, and honestly, i have not had great success in getting folks to trust me, but thats who i am, and what i bring to the game. In a way, i am glad that there aren't too many folks that play the game like that, It helps maintain a level of mystery and suspense with each encounter. Those are the things that drew me to the game in the first place, and although it (DayZ) has changed considerably, i still try to play it old school.

[Honest Bill 37]

Panda- you bring up some good points as well. Excellent, well thought out post.

Much of the perceived lack of "end-game" content is a player problem not a game problem.

We as gamers have been force-fed the scripted event, xp treadmill, dumbed-down gameplay model for so long that DayZs true sandbox approach is just baffling to begin with.

We are truly only limited by our imaginations in DayZ and that seems to be the real problem for the majority.

All geared and bored? Try running as a medic, sign up with Freeside Trading Company and guard a player driven trade fair, start a bus service from Cherno to Elektro, hell run down to the beach and give everyone you see medical supplies and steaks. There is no limit except what we put on ourselves....

The central problem in relation to "end game" is our perceptions/expectations and not the game itself IMO.

I don't know if i'd agree with that. The game could easily provide a few more tools thst players csn use to facilitate their imaginations.. For instance, the whole fixing up a vehicle idea is a very good one.. It's loosely structured in that there are certain specific things you need to accomplish it, but what sets it apart from other games is that a players motivations for his actions belong entirely to himself.

There is nothing wrong with adding more loosely structured and entirely optional content, basically just giving the players more ways to interact with the world.. Your reasons for doing so, and your choices being your own are what i think defines the 'sandbox' genre

[AryanBoogeyman 185]

I don't know if i'd agree with that. The game could easily provide a few more tools thst players csn use to facilitate their imaginations.. For instance, the whole fixing up a vehicle idea is a very good one.. It's loosely structured in that there are certain specific things you need to accomplish it, but what sets it apart from other games is that a players motivations for his actions belong entirely to himself.

There is nothing wrong with adding more loosely structured and entirely optional content, basically just giving the players more ways to interact with the world.. Your reasons for doing so, and your choices being your own are what i think defines the 'sandbox' genre

My bad, I should have elaborated.

In no way do I see the mod as perfect. As you say, more ways to interact with the world and other players would add immensely to the overall experience.

I personally hope to see clues in the stand alone as to the genesis and back story of the "infection". I just hope this can be accomplished without resorting to the canned quests and xp treadmill style of game design.

Edited August 11, 2012 by AryanBoogeyman

[AryanBoogeyman 185]

-removed- Dingus

Haha ok. Run along now while those who are capable have a civil discussion.

Edited August 11, 2012 by Dingus

[paney 23]

My thoughts exactly, OP.

I believe DayZ would be a better experience without tents/vehicle storage. You shouldn't even be able to loot your own body, actually.

Once your stuff is lost, it should be REALLY lost. Only then would it become a stronger experience.

Wipe all the camps and all the gear except this currently on characters, delete tents and trunks from the game. Playing this mod is pointless now. I hate myself for knowing where the camps are, and where people hide their vehicles. I don't enjoy the game anymore. One challenging thing that left is PvP. And anyway if I die I just need to run to the nearest known camp and gear up. I don't even have my own tent. I don't need it. It's not a survival mod anymore - that's for sure.

[Honest Bill 37]

My bad, I should have elaborated.

In no way do I see the mod as perfect. As you say, more ways to interact with the world and other players would add immensely to the overall experience.

I personally hope to see clues in the stand alone as to the genesis and back story of the "infection". I just hope this can be accomplished without resorting to the canned quests and xp treadmill style of game design.

Couldn't agree more.. It's just a point i often try and make, a lot of 'old skool' role players are totally fine with barebones and see anything which might even resemble a quest as bad thing. And they are totally comfortable with pretending.. I know pretending is what everyone who plays the game is ultimately doing, but the world must give you some kind of feedback. It's al very well saying your character is doing this or that, but if he isn't actually doing it, then it's pointless.. At lest that's my view.. I know the role players don't all feel the same as me.

I agree that a lot of clues and things to be found throughout the world add tons of replayability, and that's the beauty of it, the developers only have to set up the framework for the story, but the players decide what that story is.. And like the real world, sometimes people with conflicting narratives will clash.. thus adding dynamic and emergent gameplay.

I agree though, no 'quests' that we don't instigate, initiate, and make our own decisions to complete/

[bazbake 456]

It's funny how quickly people stop reading a post that makes them feel bad. It's like there are two completely different discussions going on:

The ones who mostly agree with what the OP said.

And the ones who want to keep playerkilling. (For some reason...I don't...that doesn't have anything to do with anything, what are you people talking about? Unless the point is that most bandits are afraid of permadeath, which would explain why they randomly jump to defending banditry in a thread that mostly ignores it.)

Anyway, while I think looting other corpses should still be possible, deleting tents on death would maintain the banditry aspect while still preventing players from not having to worry about death.

Edited August 11, 2012 by BazBake

[Honest Bill 37]

I agree that you definitely shouldn't be able to keep your gear after you die. It defeats the whole object of 'perma death' it removes any significance to death.

[nicraM 137]

So the easiest way to talk about the group who "play DayZ to not play DayZ" is to go down such a list and look at the desires/gaming style that has developed, and ask "Do those things apply?", or "Is their entire mode of operation geared around making sure that such game mechanics do not apply to them". Observe:

• Permadeath: People are specifically organising their game to avoid this mechanic. They love to talk about it and how "hardcore" it is, but they don't REALLY want it to apply to them. That would suck. And so they play with a group of friends, and organise it so that if and when anyone dies, they either race back to get their stuff, or their friends take it and hold it for them.
  
• Scavenging: This is a grey area, and comes in a variety of forms. Loot maps, server hopping and camping specific locations to get respawning equipment, and clan stockpiling. It is when a person is not wandering the wasteland/wilderness, stumbling across those rare finds, setting up a makeshift camps to store a couple of beans. Basically, when your gameplay stops representing hunter/gatherer type behaviour, and now resembles loot-agriculture.
  
• Stark finiteness of resources: Item duping, clan camps with all sorts of vehicles, unlimited ammo bugs. Lets be honest and say that the number of people running around with ghillies, sniper rifles, nvgs at the moment makes a bit of a mockery of the "rarity" of these items or the scarcity of resources. I think a significant portion of the community doesn't really want a stark finiteness of resources to apply to them.
  
• Disorientation/isolation: Some people just come right out and say they don't want this(I'm not one of them). Starting alone, unarmed, unsure, vulnerable on a beach. Having to find survivors. What kind of sucky game is this! They want to be able to start immediately with their (preferably well armed)pre-arranged friends.
  
• Spontenaeity of random social experiences: Part of this, I think, stems from the other aspects of "not playing DayZ". A lot of people are complaining that "everyone just shoots on sight". Now, I've been lucky enough to have a couple of social experiences where they don't, and they were almost always spontaneous encounters by chance, earlier on in the game, and specifically where the other aspects of "Playing DayZ" actually applied to us both. Scroll down the list above and think for a moment. Are the people who "Play DayZ to not play DayZ" going to shoot you on sight or take that chance to come talk with you? I think the former. They aren't in this for the "DayZ experience".
  

Now the funny thing is I'm all for player killing and bandits. Its one of those things that keeps you on edge, and every now and then there's someone, or a situation, where you just have to put a bullet in someone's face. But lets also be honest and say that part of the problem, if you accept that such a problem exists, is that a significant portion of the community is specifically tryig to "not play DayZ". They do not lose anything appreciable when they die, they do not have to struggle to survive, they are not lost or alone. They are generally farming the game rather than playing the game.

Their goal, probably, is to log on to farm equipment, to kill people with their friends while playing as much outside the initial game mechanics as possible.

Now, I sort of expect this observation to not go down very well with some, in part because its a truthfull observation and a description of how alot of people are playing the game. People really don't like being called out on what they're doing, especially when they have visions of themselves as "hardcore gamers"(whatever the hell that means).

I do not have a solution prepackaged. I am aware that many will say "this isn't a problem that needs fixing".

Personally, I admit, I think the game would be better if fewer players were involved in this type of behvaiour. If it were impossible to "avoid the consequence of playing DayZ". Consequences of permadeath should apply to all. I am not against clans, or social gaming. Frankly, I relish in the opportunity to take them on. But I do think that if your clan was "hypothetically wiped out in a confrontation", then your clan's equipment should, like your clan and your single player life "be practically wiped out". Have to start again from scratch. Keep your social ties. Lose all your stuff. To the victor go the spoils. Same as everyone else.

Discuss.

Permdeath - It is still a death. Just because people play as a team and watch over their friends corpse/gear doesn't take anything away from the game. In fact, it is a great mechanic and if you don't have anyone to do that for you, oh well.

I have a team, and I do that for most of them. There are some, that I wouldn't do that for, cause they haven't shown me the same respect. But that is neither here, nor there. What I mean by that is, you win some you lose some. Sounds like you are pissed cause you keep losing and/or you have no one to help you out.

This does not detract from the overall experience of the game. Once again, it creates strong ties between you and the other player (hopefully, unless they are stupid and selfish - which does happen - you will know next time, when it is there turn to help and they vulture your body - lesson learned). Both have happened to me and those people will never get my respect, nor protection. They are my decoy, at most.

Scavenging - I agree with all of this. Meta surfing for loot is gross. I have done it twice. I felt like a ninny.

Finite resources - I agree with you. But, it is an engine problem and everyone does it. Including you. You can't help certain things. Am I never supposed to log out (supposedly fixed now). How about finding a suit? Am I supposed to refrain from putting it on, because it will refill my ammo? I tend to drop the civ clothes because I don't like to willingly exploit any engine. As for dupes? Bug, unavoidable. And everyone has nice weapons cause hackers are spawning shit for everyone. Oh well, BIS has to care for this to change.

Disorientation/Isolated start - IDGI, are you for or against this? I am for this, but I will venture towards my team if they are online. I know when I get there, at the very least I have protection till I find a weapon. I don't get your argument on this point.

Last point - ...

...And there it is, folks.

It is a care-bear post in disguise. I knew it. I am for my DayZ experience. Who the fuck are you to tell me that the way I play is not the DayZ Experience?

Go play your game the way you feel is right. I will continue to play the way I want.

I hate CoD, trust me. I love this game and the experiences it has brought me. Maybe if some of you spent some time learning the game mechanics and training your aim you would be real players (yeah, I said it) and wouldn't cry so much.

Edited August 11, 2012 by nicraM

[thewanderer 16]

your whole argument is based on YOUR opinion of how to play Dayz or how not to play Dayz.

Its an open sandbox for people to play how they wish, the difficulty for most at the moment is that their are those out there who want to play in such a way that is contra to letting the others play as they wish.

Its the classic "i want to play in a world where people wont kill each other" vs the "i want play in a world where i am free to kill people"

For those who are having difficulty with the shoot-on-sight mentality that has developed you need to really understand that in a situation where people have no consequences for their actions in real life or a game (or at least nothing significant) they will do as they wish however abhor ant you may find it. In this instance maybe DayZ is too realistic in that it correctly allows people to make their own moral decisions outside of any form of punishment or retribution.....

[nicraM 137]

In this instance maybe DayZ is too realistic in that it correctly allows people to make their own moral decisions outside of any form of punishment or retribution.....

That is exactly what makes DayZ special. It doesn't placate (slowly going away - bandit/hero skins) to the losers who QQ about losing pixels.

The moment they punish me for murdering/banditing/ensuring my survival, is the moment this game becomes like every other POS game out there that tries to hold the same style.

I hope Rocket sticks to his guns and, even with the BIS buyout, he doesn't let those corporate dickheads stick their, well, dickheads into this project.

[s.taylor.75@gmail.com 23]

Spot on post OP. A good example is to watch some of the twitch streams of day-z. You'll see a group of people, each equipped with every item one would want in the game flying in a helicopter on a low pop server. They simply hoard more of the same gear they have or tactically outmaneuver 2 lee enfield equipped noobs on the south coast with their team of snipers/spotters and designated machine gun users. Variations on this theme exist but the same general principle always applies. The people are assuming zero risk in doing whatever they are doing.

[Honest Bill 37]

your whole argument is based on YOUR opinion of how to play Dayz or how not to play Dayz.

Its an open sandbox for people to play how they wish, the difficulty for most at the moment is that their are those out there who want to play in such a way that is contra to letting the others play as they wish.

Its the classic "i want to play in a world where people wont kill each other" vs the "i want play in a world where i am free to kill people"

For those who are having difficulty with the shoot-on-sight mentality that has developed you need to really understand that in a situation where people have no consequences for their actions in real life or a game (or at least nothing significant) they will do as they wish however abhor ant you may find it. In this instance maybe DayZ is too realistic in that it correctly allows people to make their own moral decisions outside of any form of punishment or retribution.....

Fair point.. But in real life of course, it is up to the other people to ensure there are consequences for antisocial behaviour, such as imprisonment or death penalty, or plain old revenge.. whatever it may be.

The thing is, that the game does not really facilitate players to take any meaningful action against said players.. As has been noted several times, if good guys shoot the bad guys, bad guys will run back to their tent to get their equipment back and come back. Game worlds have to be fundamentally different from the real world in certain ways//

If you want to stop people killing other players (or at least curtail it a bit) you will have to give them resons not to. There has to be something for them to fear, or something else for them to do.. Preferably both.

[AryanBoogeyman 185]

That is exactly what makes DayZ special. It doesn't placate (slowly going away - bandit/hero skins) to the losers who QQ about losing pixels.

The moment they punish me for murdering/banditing/ensuring my survival, is the moment this game becomes like every other POS game out there that tries to hold the same style.

I hope Rocket sticks to his guns and, even with the BIS buyout, he doesn't let those corporate dickheads stick their, well, dickheads into this project.

Therein lies our problem.....

That would be an accurate description of the teenage cod rejects that tent dupe the shit out of their leet gear and never have to fear perma death. Deathmatch all you want, once the proper mechanics are in place to make it an accurate representation of "skill". Winner takes all - loser starts on the beach with nothing.

As it is now we might as well be playing any generic FPS. Unlimited ammo, unlimited guns, unlimited lives. Just boring crap that "only a dullard would enjoy".

You just don't get it.

[tom_gr7 20]

Spot on post OP!

I agree with everything you have said!

I'd like rocket to remove the tents and stop storing in vehicles, then do a complete wipe of the hive, all tents gone, all players wiped.

But he wont do that, not a flippin chance.

[Honest Bill 37]

This idea of 'punishing' other players is a bit odd.. Unless of course you can define what constitutes punishment. The idea should not be to 'punish' players who kill other players, but to make them make more logical decisions which will have a consequence. If it is more conducive to their fun and survival to kill, then that's exactly what they will do. If they can find the same doing something else, they may do that instead.

Whether you like it or not. player killers will remain in the game.. They need to be there to add the vital conflict that any narrative (player driven though it might be) needs to be interesting. they add the necessary bad guys to a game which would be a bit boring without them.

Now the devs should focus on making being a good guy more attractive and beneficial.. Then a natural equilibrium can be achieved.

[Bigtaff 23]

I'm just waiting on the standalone. I have a feeling Rocket is going to kick the shit out of us and we'll love every second of it :)

[Lin (DayZ) 22]

Good post btw.

I feel a few issues that really hurt the game is looted based. Loot cycling sucks to do, and is a chore, I bet a majority will agree with me on that. But what happens if you go to a store, take all the food and just leave behind empty cans? The stuff you took will respawn, with a chance of it being crap, and the stuff you left behind is still crap. If everyone just ran though each building the just took everything that Is needed, soon all the buildings will just be filled with undesirable items. I always feel, compelled to take all the loot out of a supermarket or firestation if I took some look, just so the next guy after me has a chance of getting someone thing good.

I know people always tell you to run away from cherno or eletro, but these are the hot spots I tend to stay. It is exciting to interact with people, as I don't KoS, I do die a lot to random people, but that is okay due to the fact that all my gear is from the town itself. I do find friendly people and I help gather him/her supplies for the road ahead of them, and then see them off the town. I will always stay in town, making sure loot is fresh for newly spawned players.