Whats wrong with the bullets in this game?

[UnAVA 1]

Why does M9 Silenced use a different ammo type than normal M9?

I understand some guns need a different ammo type because the bullet reaches sonic speed and could be heard, but for M9 that is not the case.

And why can't you use ACP45 bullets for your M1911?

[Doommaker 3]

Well in real life, in order for a suppressed weapon to be effective, you should use subsonic ammo. When an object breaks the sound barrier, you hear it.

Not sure about the .45 ACP though. You're right about that.

[fiya 0]

Its an engine limitation. Its just how it works. Each 'magazine' is set to work with certain weapons. You can't take the bullets from the revolver .45 and put it in the M1911 mag. Its not really a big deal, we have been around it for a loong time.

[Suicide Mouse 50]

Because there isn't a way to put bullets in the mag, yet.

[Alex519 1]

Yet the g17 uses a bunch of different mags. Same with the pdw.

[UnAVA 1]

Well in real life' date=' in order for a suppressed weapon to be effective, you should use subsonic ammo. When an object breaks the sound barrier, you hear it.

[/quote']

yes I know that, but that is only for rifles. M9 never reaches the sound barrier, so even in real life normal M9 ammo is used for Silenced M9.

[Virfortis 111]

Well in real life' date=' in order for a suppressed weapon to be effective, you should use subsonic ammo. When an object breaks the sound barrier, you hear it.

[/quote']

yes I know that, but that is only for rifles. M9 never reaches the sound barrier, so even in real life normal M9 ammo is used for Silenced M9.

mind linking? Not everyone knows that.

[VZ58shooter 1]

dude, 9mm does break the sound barrier and of course obviously there a loads that do not.

The sound barrier is 1126fps a standard 9mm travels 1200-1500.

[Alex519 1]

Well in real life' date=' in order for a suppressed weapon to be effective, you should use subsonic ammo. When an object breaks the sound barrier, you hear it.

[/quote']

yes I know that, but that is only for rifles. M9 never reaches the sound barrier, so even in real life normal M9 ammo is used for Silenced M9.

Do some research before you post. The 9mm, the cartidge used in the m9 has a weight around 115 grains, while the 5.56 caliber, used in the m4 carbine, has a weight of only 62-63 grains. Regardless, any bullet unless subsonic, will break the sound barrier. It does not matter if it's in a rifle or a sidearm.

[Doommaker 3]

Well in real life' date=' in order for a suppressed weapon to be effective, you should use subsonic ammo. When an object breaks the sound barrier, you hear it.

[/quote']

yes I know that, but that is only for rifles. M9 never reaches the sound barrier, so even in real life normal M9 ammo is used for Silenced M9.

Even a .22 breaks the sound barrier. There's pellet guns that break the sound barrier.

[waphlez 2]

I did some searching and see that the M9's muzzle velocity is from 381-390 m/s. There are many sources with different values, but all that I've seen are above the speed of sound (~343 m/s for reference). I also believe that suppressors in general slightly increase muzzle velocity (some designs don't). This means the standard 9 x 19 mm round will still make quite a bit of noise.

[Alex519 1]

I also believe that suppressors in general slightly increase muzzle velocity (some designs don't).

The increase is negligible in most cases.

[Doommaker 3]

I don't see how a suppressor would increase muzzle velocity. All it does is strip the gas from the bullet. If anything, it would decrease velocity. I could be wrong, but it seems unlikely to me.

[waphlez 2]

I don't see how a suppressor would increase muzzle velocity. All it does is strip the gas from the bullet. If anything' date=' it would decrease velocity. I could be wrong, but it seems unlikely to me.

[/quote']

It doesn't lose the internal barrel the normal firearm has, so it still gets the same gas pressure behind it for the internal length of the barrel + additional pressure from the extra length provided by the suppressor. The gas is being dissipated in the suppressor, so the pressure behind the bullet is considerably less than it was inside the internal barrel, but in most cases it actually will gain more energy (more than any energy lost while moving through the suppressor) as it leaves the end of the suppressor than it would if it just left the internal barrel and moved that distance through the air. I don't know if this holds for the M9 specifically, but it does in general.

It is negligible, but it is a few extra m/s and my point was that it was even more likely to break the sound barrier when firing standard ammo through the M9 SD.

[Doommaker 3]

Makes sense. Almost like having a longer barrel.

[Oddball_E8 1]

The .45ACP is usually subsonic to start with, so it is a very easy caliber to use supressors with (no need for special ammunition and so on)

As for the original topic, yes it seems some weapons can use different mags (the MP5SD for example can use the M9SD mags apparantly) whilst others cant.

I dont believe this to be an engine limitation, but rather a sloppy design.

Basically the internal information of each weapon has a list of what magazines it can use, and some have a logical choice (like the G17 being able to use most 9mm magazines) and some just have their own specific one with no others added (like the M1911)

Im not so sure that Rocket can change this without some major overhauling, but it probably wont happen anytime soon anyway since there are alot of other things to deal with in the game first.

[ferrard 0]

Beyond the lack of a telltale "CRACK" sound from the bullet's passage through the air, subsonic ammunition also has a logistical purpose: you decrease the velocity of a bullet by decreasing the gas pressure generated by its firing - the reduced gas pressure also slows down wear and tear on the suppressor itself, whether it's integral or detachable. Subsonic ammunition may also require further modifications to the bullet or recoil / gas mechanisms to make a semi-automatic / automatic weapon cycle properly.

The (not-so-)obvious downsides to subsonic munitions are slightly reduced power, slightly shorter range, slightly worse bullet arc, slightly longer bullet travel-time, and the requirement of an additional logistical detail to the supply chain. All of which would be vitally important to a simulator as detailed and rectum-retentive as ArmA II.

As for the non-transferable bullets... yeah that bugs me too. I wish we could carry empty mags and refill them or transfer bullets from one mag to another. Maybe ArmA III?

~ Ferrard

[UnAVA 1]

thanks for the replies. I really didn't know much about the SD bullets so this helped me a lot.

[dead3ye 21]

This will probably change with time, its still an Alpha. In ACE mod you can use rounds with different guns just like you could in real life.