An Argument for Money

[Louis13245 29]

I've seen the other posts for a monetary system and their justifications. I've seen what the replies were. How it is unrealistic. How it isn't an RPG. How DayZ is a survival simulator.

The thing is, not having money would be unrealistic. Cash wouldn't just up and vanish, it would still be there. The question is whether people would value it or not.

So, money should be lootable from the vast majority of zombies and other players, along with certain loot spots in the standalone. Less in miltary installations, more in cities and refugee camps. In addition, a trade interface which facilitates but doesn't force the use of money between players should be implemented. In other words, using money is an option not a nececssity, you can still just trade items between players. No NPCs to spend money with. No banks except your own tent. No 'sinks' other then when a body despawns and no one found i

And thats it. From there, the Developers take their hands off and leave. They don't say, use this as a currency. They don't say that this gun should cost this much. They don't set any base prices. It's up to the players whether they trust it enough to use it as a currency. In other words, it expands the sandbox.

But there will be more then one server, how do you keep prices constant? You don't. If something costs less elsewhere, go there to buy it. What if you can't? Say your ping is too high on that server? Well tough, in survival you couldn't just up and travel to another place to get a better price.

What if the market crashes because of hackers? Well it's going to crash. Live with it. Its a zombie world and nothing is certain.

What if no-one uses money? Then so be it. The game's parameters allowed the creation of a currency, and if no-one wanted to then thats how the sandbox rolls. You can still gloat and pretend to be a millionaire if that floats your boat.

Since I don't expect everyone to read all of this, stated simply: It would be unrealistic not to have money available.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Louis13245

[ThatGuyCalledReptile 314]

It'd be unrealistic to have money have any value.

Point destroyed.

[Louis13245 29]

It'd be unrealistic to have money have any value.

Point destroyed.

You sure? Look at Minecraft servers. The game doesn't have anything that is conductive to a monetary system, yet servers still use thing such as gold, slimeballs and others as a form of currency.

In the game, money may or may not have value.

It doesn't matter whether it has value or not. It's up to the player base to decide that.

Incidentally, I said not having money would be unrealistic. Whether money would have value or not is irrelevant.

You destroyed someone elses point, not mine,

Edited August 9, 2012 by Louis13245

[ODoyleRulez 195]

Bullets are the only currency that matter.

[Rokor Fenix 143]

You sure? Look at Minecraft servers. The game doesn't have anything that is conductive to a monetary system, yet servers still use thing such as gold, slimeballs and others as a form of currency.

In the game, money may or may not have value.

It doesn't matter whether it has value or not. It's up to the player base to decide that.

Incidentally, I said not having money would be unrealistic. Whether money would have value or not is irrelevant.

You destroyed someone elses point, not mine,

Your logic here is flawed. On a set server, like in MineCraft. Slimeballs can be set worldwide as the general form of currency. In DayZ this isn't the case.

[Louis13245 29]

Bullets are the only currency that matter.

Then you don't have to use money. What matters is the expansion of the sandbox.

Your logic here is flawed. On a set server, like in MineCraft. Slimeballs can be set worldwide as the general form of currency. In DayZ this isn't the case.

I used that as an example to say that currency does arise from a sandbox enviroment. But I see your point.

However, that's part of the sandbox. Some servers would accept and utilize the currency, others wouldn't. Likewise in the real situation, currency could be accepted in one area, rejected in another, two places which could potentially be very close.

I don't know whether everyone in all servers would use it. In fact I doubt they would.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Louis13245

[IcyZ 295]

i think your post is pointless.cause you just said what's going on now,if someone wants to "buy something" he just posts here and sets up when and where he is gonna take his item,and about what he will give in exchange and stuff.noone said that i'm gonna give you a gps for 10 cans of coke and an AKM for 20.there is no global currency,everyone asks for payment what he wants!so i think your post is pretty pointless

[L0G!N (DayZ) 149]

I agree with the OP, it would actually be weird NOT to find currency all over the place, as it's a commen item that would have been around when 'it' happened. So comming across it should be fairly commen.

It could have some use as a fire starter, or fire bundle though :) ... but otherwise, i can see how we would be able to find it and from there on can decide whether we use it or not ...

[Louis13245 29]

i think your post is pointless.cause you just said what's going on now,if someone wants to "buy something" he just posts here and sets up when and where he is gonna take his item,and about what he will give in exchange and stuff.noone said that i'm gonna give you a gps for 10 cans of coke and an AKM for 20.there is no global currency,everyone asks for payment what he wants!so i think your post is pretty pointless

True. That is what happens now. If the community decides to use cans of coke as a form of currency then so be it. If they decide to barter only, then fair enough.

You'll find on of the reasons why there is currently no 'currency' so to speak, is because that there is nothing in the game that is suitable. Cans of coke are hard to use as they take up too much space.

[tylahfoo 10]

Money or currency will always exist in every society, post-apolocolyptic or not. Currency could be in the form of bullets but this would not unison. Everyone values bullets quite differently. Money on the other hand, as gold or other rare metals, can be used as a product with no spoilage with value. This makes life easier for everyone when trying to make a complicated trade. I don't doubt that some form of currency would be formed in any society as it advances. It is foolish to make the argument that in real life currency should not exist; however, this is a video game and the same rules do not apply. The problem with money in games is that some people "farm" the money creating vast inflation. Money in video games with no sinks or controls is foolish. What costs 1 gold today make cost 20 gold tomorrow depending on how much one "farms" gold. In other words, currency in video games spoils quite rapidly.

At least with the current system, people must protect their tents and other goods. These goods have a value because they can disapear at any time and are not easily farmable. Money would just make surviving in this game too easy and cause more grief than good.

[magmatrix 38]

It would be weird NOT to find toilet paper all over the place... just sayin'

[L0G!N (DayZ) 149]

It would be weird NOT to find toilet paper all over the place... just sayin'

So true! ... it be a great way to leave a 'I was here' message too!

I think a lot of people misunderstand the OP though, and respond from their basic understanding of how money works in other games. All the OP says that money-bills should spawn in various places and that these would likely be considdered another form of 'tin can' spawn. Inflation or moneysinks etc don't realy matter, whether the money is used doesn't matter either. That it could be used is another thing entirely, and as we all don't know what the game will turn into eventually, it may well be a very usefull item once civilisation as restored in certain parts of the game world, by clans alliences or w/e ...

[Louis13245 29]

It would be weird NOT to find toilet paper all over the place... just sayin'

True =P

...however, this is a video game and the same rules do not apply. The problem with money in games is that some people "farm" the money creating vast inflation. Money in video games with no sinks or controls is foolish. What costs 1 gold today make cost 20 gold tomorrow depending on how much one "farms" gold. In other words, currency in video games spoils quite rapidly.

At least with the current system, people must protect their tents and other goods. These goods have a value because they can disapear at any time and are not easily farmable. Money would just make surviving in this game too easy and cause more grief than good.

Thats true enough. You can't expect a in-game currency to work like a real life currency due to the spontaneous generation involved from farming.

However, thats due to how the players create the system. Farming gold would be akin to laundering money in real-life, and some creative individuals may work against it. Such as killing those that farm for gold and letting the body despawn.

It's just how the player base will act which makes it an experiment. Its a sandbox, you leave the tools, those inside create.

Or destroy.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Louis13245

[Catheter Cat™ 7]

You sure? Look at Minecraft servers. The game doesn't have anything that is conductive to a monetary system, yet servers still use thing such as gold, slimeballs and others as a form of currency.

In the game, money may or may not have value.

It doesn't matter whether it has value or not. It's up to the player base to decide that.

Incidentally, I said not having money would be unrealistic. Whether money would have value or not is irrelevant.

You destroyed someone elses point, not mine,

They also have a money MOD that lets them earn money by buying / selling things, its called Iconomy.

[Grodenn 53]

While I can agree that it would be realistic to find money all over the place I don't think that is something we need in the game. Reason for this is simple, if there would be a zombie apocalypse in real life money would have no value what so ever. Why? First of inflation you really don't have to study economics (I have though ;))to understand that there would be some insane inflation when 90%+ of the population dies and that 10% or what ever that is left have access to all the money that was there before. This would mean that a million dollars is barley worth a can of beans and then you get to the question why would you go around with something that has a low value and no real use what so ever? You can't eat it and you can't use it for anything except maybe as toilet paper and something to start the fire with but you don't need a few thousand 100 dollar bills for that (or what ever currency you may want).

So if it was implemented to be realistic the money in the game would have to take up backpack slots for storage which basically mean that they are completely useless. Money only have the value people think/say it has, it is completely worthless and at the same time worth more than anyone can imagine, it is all about trust for the currency. There are many examples of these type of scenarios happening in real life (when currencies basically implode) and that is without the majority of the population dying out.

Basically money in it self is a worthless item inside the game and I don't think it would fit the game. With that said rocket have actually talked about adding some nonsense items to the game that we as players could decide to use as a currency if we wanted to (which I find a bit more interesting tbh).

[DemonGroover 8836]

Money would be a useless commodity, as would walking around carrying a bar of gold. In a Day Z scenario a magazine or tin of beans would be infinitely more valuable.

The barter system would in effect rule.

Havent you seen Mad Max, Beyond Thunderdome? MasterBlaster runs Bartertown!

[RoastLamb 4]

1. Money can be anything, it is any thing that is used as a means of exchange, there in lies its value.

2. "Money" is there to solve the coincidence of wants problem, and will naturally arise within any system of barter within the game because of the that problem.

3. Whatever shape the money comes in it will have to be scarce, but not impossible to obtain, just a bit of effort. It will need to be highly portable and not degrade over time. The real reason metals were originally used as money.

[Badjr 44]

Having money would be unrealistic.

There wouldn't be a form of currency. Exchanges would take place in the form of bartering.

"What do I need that he has" or "Is this worth that"

This is how many cultures trade even in modern times like these.

[Louis13245 29]

Having money would be unrealistic.

There wouldn't be a form of currency. Exchanges would take place in the form of bartering.

"What do I need that he has" or "Is this worth that"

This is how many cultures trade even in modern times like these.

Incidentally, very few cultures still retain the barter system.

Not having money would be unrealistic. Whether money would be used as a currency would yet to be seen.

While I can agree that it would be realistic to find money all over the place I don't think that is something we need in the game. Reason for this is simple, if there would be a zombie apocalypse in real life money would have no value what so ever. Why? First of inflation you really don't have to study economics (I have though ;))to understand that there would be some insane inflation when 90%+ of the population dies and that 10% or what ever that is left have access to all the money that was there before. This would mean that a million dollars is barley worth a can of beans and then you get to the question why would you go around with something that has a low value and no real use what so ever? You can't eat it and you can't use it for anything except maybe as toilet paper and something to start the fire with but you don't need a few thousand 100 dollar bills for that (or what ever currency you may want).

So if it was implemented to be realistic the money in the game would have to take up backpack slots for storage which basically mean that they are completely useless. Money only have the value people think/say it has, it is completely worthless and at the same time worth more than anyone can imagine, it is all about trust for the currency. There are many examples of these type of scenarios happening in real life (when currencies basically implode) and that is without the majority of the population dying out.

Basically money in it self is a worthless item inside the game and I don't think it would fit the game. With that said rocket have actually talked about adding some nonsense items to the game that we as players could decide to use as a currency if we wanted to (which I find a bit more interesting tbh).

I agree. In real life, inflation would most likely ruin our current valueing system. But this is an in-game economy. There would be no artificial inflation as there is no pre-existing standard. Money is generated not pre-existing. In terms of real life example, I'm thinking you're thinking the German Mark in 1924. I'm not denying that it might also occur in-game eventually. But thats the experiment of it all.

You could view money as a nonsense item. Indeed, as the posts show, some people do. Adding other nonsense items and saying you can use those as currency too is basically the same thing as adding money, just less realistic. While the Fallout sentiment of using bottlecaps as currency is interesting, and I'm sure other 'unusual' items would also have their appeal, they would suffer from the same inventory issues as money, most likely more so.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Louis13245

[Obsolescence 129]

The only use I have for money is to make smaller, less noticable fires to cook meat with. Even then, I would never risk getting near a stranger to trade for this marginal benefit.

[ANCD 17]

If you are talking about money in terms of notes and coins then the idea wouldn't work without a central bank to underwrite the value of the currency.

[debiru 27]

Having money would be unrealistic.

There wouldn't be a form of currency. Exchanges would take place in the form of bartering.

"What do I need that he has" or "Is this worth that"

This is how many cultures trade even in modern times like these.

I agree.

there is no need to re-invent the wheel and no need to add anything.. except modifying the inventory to make barter easy

- I can give you this ghillie suit, what do you have?

- I have this can of beans...

- pfff no way!

- *shoot to the face, takes the ghillie suit, walks away* :D

[Louis13245 29]

If you are talking about money in terms of notes and coins then the idea wouldn't work without a central bank to underwrite the value of the currency.

Then how did money originate in the first place? There was no central bank, only a general consensus of value. Money itself is a very simple thing, it only gets more complicated when the playing field expands. Essentially, the central bank would be the player base.

I agree.

there is no need to re-invent the wheel and no need to add anything.. except modifying the inventory to make barter easy

- I can give you this ghillie suit, what do you have?

- I have this can of beans...

- pfff no way!

- *shoot to the face, takes the ghillie suit, walks away* :D

How about vehicles? Assuming you don't shoot the guy in the face for it, what can you give him thats worth a Helicopter or a APC? Theres only so many guns and so much ammo a person can need. Thats where currency comes into play. Even in smaller cases, its easier to have a median commodity to get what you want, rather then finding someone who has what you want in addition to you having what they want.

The thing is whether or not people would trust the currency enough. Thats the sandbox of it.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Louis13245

[ANCD 17]

Then how did money originate in the first place? There was no central bank, only a general consensus of value. Money itself is a very simple thing, it only gets more complicated when the playing field expands. Essentially, the central bank would be the player base.

How about vehicles? Assuming you don't shoot the guy in the face for it, what can you give him thats worth a Helicopter or a APC? Theres only so many guns and so much ammo a person can need. Thats where currency comes into play. Even in smaller cases, its easier to have a median commodity to get what you want, rather then finding someone who has what you want in addition to you having what they want.

The thing is whether or not people would trust the currency enough. Thats the sandbox of it.

Money in its note form began when individual banks underwrote hard currencies, gold and silver, that people deposited with them and gave them what was, effectively, a bearer bond and is today note money. This meant that the value of your note for five gold pieces depended upon the solvency of the bank in question. Eventually, nations began making their own notes to centralise the process and it was all underwritten by that countries central bank or government. This had a number of benefits: foremostly that the value of the currency was much more stale as a nation is much more solvent than a bank and, secondly, it began the end of hard currencies.

Thus, the chief failure of the idea of using actual bills becomes apparent, because with no institution to underwrite their value they are essentially only scraps of paper with a limited number of uses and are, as such, worthless. If you took Metro 2033's, or someother game's, idea and used "special" bullets then then that is another story; both because the bullets hold a greater inherent value than scraps of paper and that the game garuntees its value.

So, unless you are in favour of the game establishing a value for money by providing npcs who sell at set prices then there is no way to introduce anything beyond a barter system.

Edited August 9, 2012 by ANCD

[ESDeadmond 7]

The way I'm seeing it, nobody would use the money. I mean there really would be no reason at all to use it. Why give up good weapons/equipment you found for something that is completely useless. No one is going to give up their newly acquired FN FAL no matter how big of a wad of cash you throw at them because when it comes down to it, that money is going to be useless in a situation where you have to fight or die.