Dying needs to have consequences

[instagoat 13]

And so does killing someone.

I am putting this thought out here for review by the community, maybe even the devs if it turns out viable enough, and can be implemented in any way.

One major reason, in my mind, why people like to shoot each other over at the beach is that there are no consequences to dying, and that there is no stigma attached to killing people. That seems to be a contradictory statement, however, let me explain.

Apart from loosing gear, you don´t loose anything when dying. Gear, apart from really high-tier stuff, is quickly recovered. I wouldn´t mind dying right now, and I have pretty rad stuff, lever action rifle, 1911, that kind of stuff.

But in general, because people do not value their OWN life, they also don´t waste a second thought on the lives of OTHERS. Conversely, people also completely overvalue what they do get in the game, currently, and use excessive force to preemptively defend themselves. All they get, at best, as a brand is a temporary bandit skin.

I know I am not making a lot of sense here, but I hope at least a basic Idea is coming across here.

We need more achievements, actually challenging Zombies, maybe some sort of choice of skin for the player (done at will at character generation and kept troughout the game, maybe with a few exceptions for special reasons.), maybe a mechanism for self-generated groups, and a sense of building something. Dying should actually present a serious loss, and killing someone should have some sort of stigma attached beyond a mere skin.

My few cents on this. Insta, out

[jorgamun 2]

One major reason' date=' in my mind, why people like to shoot each other over at the beach is that there are no consequences to dying...

[...']

We need more achievements, actually challenging Zombies, maybe some sort of choice of skin for the player (done at will at character generation and kept troughout the game, maybe with a few exceptions for special reasons.), maybe a mechanism for self-generated groups, and a sense of building something. Dying should actually present a serious loss, and killing someone should have some sort of stigma attached beyond a mere skin.

But you already do lose everything when dying. You lose position, gear, any progress you were making toward a goal you were hoping to achieve...

I think your suggestions add too many goals to the game. The point is to be open ended, to not have definite goals. You can't even really call a core goal of the game to be survival - that's just something you may choose to do.

[Hawk24 94]

I wouldn´t mind dying right now, and I have pretty rad stuff, lever action rifle, 1911, that kind of stuff.

Of course you think dying has no consequences when you still call a Winchester+M1911 "rad stuff"

Once you get your hands on a load of military grade equipment DYING WILL HURT

There is no defined goal in DayZ, that's the point of the sandbox concept

[jockbhoy@blueyonder.co.uk 3]

IMO losing your life is a major pain in the A$$ for most players, an exception might be the run n' gun players who don't care where they spawn, they just either spawn camp near the beach or shoot everything on sight. But if you are part of a team of survivors, playing the way i think the game is intended and that's simply to survive by any means... cooperation if possible murder and treachery if not. If or should i say when you get capped the whole experience of then being faced with a long distance to travel on your own back to join your survivor group, minus your already looted gear/backpack/nice weapons/map/compass etc if your fellow survivors cant retrieve them for you is enough of a penalty to make you play the game with a lot of caution and for me adds a bit of tension as you definitely don't want to lose silenced weapons by being killed. further penalising any player is a bit overkill for me...just my opinion.

[instagoat 13]

True.dat.

If the Idea is that the players make the game, however, I think there could at least be ways to make groups and player movements more distinct. Volountary choice of player skin, etc, that kinda thing.

I have mil-grade equipment now. I aquired an automatic rifle, ammo, things like that. However, I can get those by just double-clicking in the editor anytime when playing on my own. The kit may be motivation for some, but is that really everything? Any rifle kills the enemy, and wether you have a DMR or a CZ550 doesn´t really matter unless you want to chain-shot a dozen targets at once.

Survival is too simplicistic right now. My background in these games are the enhanced Stalker mods, and the Robinson´s Requiem games. In the latter, you had multiple dozens of medications for multiple dozens of ailments, multiple different ways to treat wounds, sprains, broken bones, you had to scavenge and prepare food (or risk getting sick), clean the water you collected, things like that. That may be overkill, to some, but when it comes to this, I am a rivetcounter.

I love it being hard, harder, the hardest. The only thing that is hard right now, to me, is not getting killed on the beach by people out to collect spawnee-scalps.

I dunno. :V I really like this mod, I´d just love it to really go further still.

[SDE Bellisarius 1]

I wouldn´t mind dying right now' date=' and I have pretty rad stuff, lever action rifle, 1911, that kind of stuff.

[/quote']

There is where you went wrong, i dunno who lied to you that that is rad stuff. No wonder you dont care about dying, you havnt done anything worthy of NOT wanting to die.

When you have actually explored and moved out of the beancoast and start getting the good stuff you will know the value of survival

This is what RAD stuff really looks like and i dont even have everything yet, i can get a winny and gov. model in 30 mins of gameplay but it took me a week to gather what you see in this screenshot. THAT is when you start valueing your life.

[jockbhoy@blueyonder.co.uk 3]

When you have actually explored and moved out of the beancoast and start getting the good stuff you will know the value of survival

This is what RAD stuff really looks like and i dont even have everything yet, i can get a winny and gov. model in 30 mins of gameplay but it took me a week to gather what you see in this screenshot. THAT is when you start valueing your life.

Damn, i would kill (literally) for a set of NV Goggles, ive been all over the map and haven't seen anything resembling them yet.

[WalkerDown (DayZ) 296]

Majority of players are playing in those coast cities doing death-matches.. so they don't care to die. I agree, there's nothing to loose atm. Instead of penalize who dies, i believe they should incentivate more to staying alive. In example more hours/days you stay alive, more strong you become. or you can run faster, or you can aim better... and stuff like this.

This one of the ways to limitate the deatmatch we're having now.

[jorgamun 2]

I like the game being goalless. I like the freedom to make my own objectives. Hell, sometimes I play a character that doesn't even care about survival, he's just out to kill as many fucking zombies as possible. The more incentives created to play a certain way the less sandboxy the game becomes. Food for thought.

[old school 2]

One major reason' date=' in my mind, why people like to shoot each other over at the beach is that there are no consequences to dying,[/quote']

eerrrrrr.... wrong. people like me, who kill everyone on sight, do it because its more fun and challenging to fight a thinking reacting human being; we paint a target on our back because the more enemies we have the more fights we get. there is no challenge in shooting a pre-programmed mob that cannot react or think for itself.... its the same thing over and over and over and over etc.

[instagoat 13]

I wouldn´t mind dying right now' date=' and I have pretty rad stuff, lever action rifle, 1911, that kind of stuff.

[/quote']

There is where you went wrong, i dunno who lied to you that that is rad stuff. No wonder you dont care about dying, you havnt done anything worthy of NOT wanting to die.

When you have actually explored and moved out of the beancoast and start getting the good stuff you will know the value of survival

This is what RAD stuff really looks like and i dont even have everything yet, i can get a winny and gov. model in 30 mins of gameplay but it took me a week to gather what you see in this screenshot. THAT is when you start valueing your life.

Aside from the NV goggles, that is just guns. Silenced weapons are nifty, granted, but in the end, all guns kill the same.

I guess the challenge is gathering all that neat stuff, and keeping it. I don´t really value it so much because I´ve had it over and over in Arma 2, Arma 1 and OFP. I could take a screenshot with NV goggles, SCAR-L w. TWS, Silenced sidearm, satchel charges and a tank as backup: not in the mod, obviously, but the "newness" of actually getting this equipment isn´t quite there for me yet. I value having shitty equipment more, than having good equipment, because it makes the game harder.

Except it doesn´t, because wether you have a makarov or a MK-48, Zombies fall over all the same, and they won´t hit you if you just back away at the right moment. Players are the same, if you can get the drop on them.

I guess that´s the beauty, though, everyone can play to their own liking. My goal would be mere survival, so I´d like to see the survival simulation enhanced. Give players reason to band together, long term.

But, again, this is only my opinion. Opinion´s aren´t worth anything unless they´re held by a majority. I love reading what you guys take from the game, so please, keep it coming. At this dev stage, I imagine any sort of productive discussion can only be healthy and helpful for the development of the mod.

[SDE Bellisarius 1]

One major reason' date=' in my mind, why people like to shoot each other over at the beach is that there are no consequences to dying,[/quote']

eerrrrrr.... wrong. people like me, who kill everyone on sight, do it because its more fun and challenging to fight a thinking reacting human being; we paint a target on our back because the more enemies we have the more fights we get. there is no challenge in shooting a pre-programmed mob that cannot react or think for itself.... its the same thing over and over and over and over etc.

soooo....shooting someone with a Makaroni pistol is a challange? :s cuz last i saw thats what ppl spawn with

[old school 2]

soooo....shooting someone with a Makaroni pistol is a challange? :s cuz last i saw thats what ppl spawn with

uhg, this is going to be fun, cause you just dont get it....

first of all, Yes.

yes because zombies dont spawn with a "makaroni" pistol.

yes because tactics beat weapons.

yes because it doesnt matter what i shoot them with, or what they shoot me with.

yes because when a player can kill me with a "makaroni" (weapon doesnt really matter, just mocking you) pistol and i have a full corpse of goodies and good weapons, then i know i met a worthy opponent; i got a good fight of whit and skill and i lost, and i created a wonderful sense of success and accomplishment for the person who killed me when the odds weighed against them.

yes because if i kill the same person over several times with their "makaroni" pistol (i'm not a camper btw) and they get frustrated and change what they are doing to survive... then i just taught someone a valuable lesson in survival.

i could keep going, but based on your baseless response that is derived from some imaginary scenario in your head on what you think i do and who you think i am (and i can tell you that you are completely wrong), i dont think you will be tracking.

[SDE Bellisarius 1]

I wouldn´t mind dying right now' date=' and I have pretty rad stuff, lever action rifle, 1911, that kind of stuff.

[/quote']

There is where you went wrong, i dunno who lied to you that that is rad stuff. No wonder you dont care about dying, you havnt done anything worthy of NOT wanting to die.

When you have actually explored and moved out of the beancoast and start getting the good stuff you will know the value of survival

This is what RAD stuff really looks like and i dont even have everything yet, i can get a winny and gov. model in 30 mins of gameplay but it took me a week to gather what you see in this screenshot. THAT is when you start valueing your life.

Aside from the NV goggles, that is just guns. Silenced weapons are nifty, granted, but in the end, all guns kill the same.

I guess the challenge is gathering all that neat stuff, and keeping it. I don´t really value it so much because I´ve had it over and over in Arma 2, Arma 1 and OFP. I could take a screenshot with NV goggles, SCAR-L w. TWS, Silenced sidearm, satchel charges and a tank as backup: not in the mod, obviously, but the "newness" of actually getting this equipment isn´t quite there for me yet. I value having shitty equipment more, than having good equipment, because it makes the game harder.

Except it doesn´t, because wether you have a makarov or a MK-48, Zombies fall over all the same, and they won´t hit you if you just back away at the right moment. Players are the same, if you can get the drop on them.

I guess that´s the beauty, though, everyone can play to their own liking. My goal would be mere survival, so I´d like to see the survival simulation enhanced. Give players reason to band together, long term.

But, again, this is only my opinion. Opinion´s aren´t worth anything unless they´re held by a majority. I love reading what you guys take from the game, so please, keep it coming. At this dev stage, I imagine any sort of productive discussion can only be healthy and helpful for the development of the mod.

i dont even know where to start with this load of crap but the worst here is a fallacy that goes beyond the game

"Opinion´s aren´t worth anything unless they´re held by a majority"

Holy shit, i bet you believe you can change facts by majority opinion. A lot of scientists at one time thought all the planets go in little epicycles around the earth. Not true. That is what they all thought. They used to teach big rocks fall faster than little rocks. That was taught for 2000 years! Not true! They used to teach if you were sick you have bad blood. Take out your blood, you’ll get better. That is how George Washington died; the guys that killed George were not stupid, they were very intelligent, highly trained, they were trying to help, and they were wrong in what they believed.

No revolutions good or bad would ever happen if what you said were true, no new inventions would be introduced if that were so. No new Einsteins to challange this "majoritiy opinion" that like it or not is ALWAYS wrong proven over and over again by history.

majority opinion = herd/sheep mentality

[jockbhoy@blueyonder.co.uk 3]

One major reason' date=' in my mind, why people like to shoot each other over at the beach is that there are no consequences to dying,[/quote']

eerrrrrr.... wrong. people like me, who kill everyone on sight, do it because its more fun and challenging to fight a thinking reacting human being; we paint a target on our back because the more enemies we have the more fights we get. there is no challenge in shooting a pre-programmed mob that cannot react or think for itself.... its the same thing over and over and over and over etc.

I think you are missing the point of this game. The challenge is to survive by scavenging, looting, bartering or shooting someone (in my case if they are hostile) thats what makes the game different. Running around on a beach shooting everyone who spawns, is whats turned a very promising survival/mod into a deathmatch.... there are hundreds of online games where if your thing is shooting others is more apt. For one...all i see you is another run n' gunner who will eventually tire of the mod and go back to playing COD and Battlefield.... sooner the better for me.

[sgtdorian 2]

And so does killing someone.

I am putting this thought out here for review by the community' date=' maybe even the devs if it turns out viable enough, and can be implemented in any way.

One major reason, in my mind, why people like to shoot each other over at the beach is that there are no consequences to dying, and that there is no stigma attached to killing people. That seems to be a contradictory statement, however, let me explain.

Apart from loosing gear, you don´t loose anything when dying... Dying should actually present a serious loss...

[/quote']

It seems you haven't gone further from the coast yet. When you've passed several hours gearing up, traveling many kilometres, avoiding all strangers contacts, sweating everytime you enter in a town to just fill your water bottles... Trust me, your life is more valuable than in any other game.

The only problem about this is in the south coast

[Mjolnir (DayZ) 1]

It's time to bring out this quote:

It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he's got, and all he's ever gonna have.

OP clearly has never ventured up north; the Winchester and M1911 are everywhere down south. If you had put in hours getting up north and then finding military weapons you would not devalue the lives of players who do so as much.

[Ret (DayZ) 0]

you do realize there is consequence to people dying, right? when you spawn, theres a set amount of (basically) nothing that you spawn with. when you die, no matter how much you had, you go back to that. The game is based on realism. you're attempting to bring in digital effects to it, which would bring the game away from reality. Stop crying and play the game.

[madmaxx@madmaxx.info 0]

Im interested what consequences youre talking about? Sure, if your character is just a couple of hours old, dying is meaningless. But if you played the same character for DAYS, went through a couple or near-death situations, but still made it out alive, when you have invested dozens of hours into this single character, then your live suddendly seems worth a lot and dying really hurts.

It doesnt matter whether those hours of gametime were invested finding the best gear, surviving against the odds, or hunting down dozens of players. There is no 'point' no 'goal' to this game - each player can set their own goals. What matters is the time invested that is lost once you died.

[...]

I think you are missing the point of this game.

[...]

I think you are missing that there isnt a 'point' to the game. You can do whatever you want, play your own game. Anyway, all of this is OT anyway.

[old school 2]

I think you are missing the point of this game. The challenge is to survive by scavenging' date=' looting, bartering or shooting someone (in my case if they are hostile) thats what makes the game different. Running around on a beach shooting everyone who spawns, is whats turned a very promising survival/mod into a deathmatch.... there are hundreds of online games where if your thing is shooting others is more apt. For one...all i see you is another run n' gunner who will eventually tire of the mod and go back to playing COD and Battlefield.... sooner the better for me.

[/quote']

no sir, you are missing the point of the game. the game is not meant for everyone to play it the way YOU want it. the game is what an individual makes it for himself. i am a survivor, i dont give anyone the chance to kill me because i kill them first, then i scavenge them, and loot them (accomplishing 3 of your 4 points)... dont need to barter with a dead guy. you, (assuming based on your posts) see it as a reason to band together with likeminded individuals and sneek around zombies and set up camps and tell stories around the bonfire and defend your self from... guess... people like me. and your absolutely right. that is the beauty of a sandbox. the difference between you and i is, i'm not telling you that your way is wrong; whereas your telling me that my way is wrong.

half the people on this planet think a world of peace love and happiness is a great place to live... the other half think is a great place to pillage. just remember that without people like me, you wouldnt have anything to defend against except dumb zombies

i know how you see me, and your wrong, and thats how i know what i'm telling you isnt going to sink in. i dont run along the coast, and i sure as hell dont play (and never have) CoD.

[jockbhoy@blueyonder.co.uk 3]

Aside from the NV goggles, that is just guns. Silenced weapons are nifty, granted, but in the end, all guns kill the same.

I guess the challenge is gathering all that neat stuff, and keeping it. I don´t really value it so much because I´ve had it over and over in Arma 2, Arma 1 and OFP. I could take a screenshot with NV goggles, SCAR-L w. TWS, Silenced sidearm, satchel charges and a tank as backup: not in the mod, obviously, but the "newness" of actually getting this equipment isn´t quite there for me yet. I value having shitty equipment more, than having good equipment, because it makes the game harder.

Except it doesn´t, because wether you have a makarov or a MK-48, Zombies fall over all the same, and they won´t hit you if you just back away at the right moment. Players are the same, if you can get the drop on them.

I guess that´s the beauty, though, everyone can play to their own liking. My goal would be mere survival, so I´d like to see the survival simulation enhanced. Give players reason to band together, long term.

But, again, this is only my opinion. Opinion´s aren´t worth anything unless they´re held by a majority. I love reading what you guys take from the game, so please, keep it coming. At this dev stage, I imagine any sort of productive discussion can only be healthy and helpful for the development of the mod.

Mostly everything else you have i or someone i play with has found at some point except those bloody elusive NV Goggles. I've lost count of the amount of times we have raided the barracks and airfields looking for NV and found damn road flares, painkillers and chemlights... but you do have a point, the less decent things you possess, the less bothered you are about being killed. The challenge for me then is just simply to get back to where the survivor group is at, while avoiding zombies, humans, towns, etc unless i am forced to loot on my own for food/water, which is risky as you stand the chance of ending up back amongst the lunatic fringe on the beach again.

[SDE Bellisarius 1]

I think you are missing that there isnt a 'point' to the game. You can do whatever you want' date=' play your own game. Anyway, all of this is OT anyway.

[/quote']

yeah you can play whoever you like, but then dont go complaining.

[Guest]

I think you are missing the point of this game. The challenge is to survive by scavenging, looting, bartering or shooting someone (in my case if they are hostile) thats what makes the game different. Running around on a beach shooting everyone who spawns, is whats turned a very promising survival/mod into a deathmatch.... there are hundreds of online games where if your thing is shooting others is more apt. For one...all i see you is another run n' gunner who will eventually tire of the mod and go back to playing COD and Battlefield.... sooner the better for me.

No, there is NO "point" for this mod, people can do whatever fuck they want. Like it or not, your the one who missed the point.

Ps: err, pointception?? :p

[jonesyx@gmail.com 19]

Dying already has consequences by forcing you to lose everything you are carrying. Don't see how you could make it worse somehow.

[jockbhoy@blueyonder.co.uk 3]

no sir, you are missing the point of the game. the game is not meant for everyone to play it the way YOU want it. the game is what an individual makes it for himself. i am a survivor, i dont give anyone the chance to kill me because i kill them first, then i scavenge them, and loot them (accomplishing 3 of your 4 points)... dont need to barter with a dead guy. you, (assuming based on your posts) see it as a reason to band together with likeminded individuals and sneek around zombies and set up camps and tell stories around the bonfire and defend your self from... guess... people like me. and your absolutely right. that is the beauty of a sandbox. the difference between you and i is, i'm not telling you that your way is wrong; whereas your telling me that my way is wrong.

half the people on this planet think a world of peace love and happiness is a great place to live... the other half think is a great place to pillage. just remember that without people like me, you wouldnt have anything to defend against except dumb zombies

i know how you see me, and your wrong, and thats how i know what i'm telling you isnt going to sink in. i dont run along the coast, and i sure as hell dont play (and never have) CoD.

I really couldn't care less how you play the game...and i am not imposing my thoughts or telling you or anyone else how to play the game...I posted MY opinion of how i feel the mod was intended to be played, otherwise its just another boring shooter clone to add to the list of all the others. If run and gunners get their jollies mindlessly running up and down a beach shooting people spawning in then whoopee for them... Shooting someone with a scoped weapon as they spawn in with nothing more than a handgun must be a real challenge. You don't care where you spawn or if you lose what you have collected, because when you die you are spawning back at the same few areas you play the game in, where as i and others want to try and keep what we have and move around the map....but we are forced to play deathmatch to suit you and others because we have to spawn on the beach...yes human bandits do add something special to the game, but for me, they don't add anything if all they are doing is running around the beach spawn killing players or camping on roofs shooting players with a DMR just so they can boast how many kills they have.... if thats the way you like to play the game...good for you. I wont lose any sleep when you get bored and leave.