Cheating death through disconnects

[jorgamun 2]

Problem with that' date=' Sidion, is that nothing stops people from pulling an Alt-F4, or a direct kill of the process in Task Manager.

The only viable solution I see would incorporate some sort of detection system that'll keep track of whether you're "engaged".

For Zs, this could be as simple as not allowing you to log out within a certain distance of any Z(s).

For players, I'd assume it'd be a lot more complicated.

[/quote']

I've written this detection system! It's passive, but it would catalog which users abuse disconnect and have the ability to punish them after a certain number of offenses.

I've been trying to contact the developers about allowing me to implement it. I hope they respond to, I'd rather them focus on making the actual game and letting someone else handle the cheat/exploit handling so that there's maximum progress with maximum efficiency!

[septuscap 42]

Problem with that' date=' Sidion, is that nothing stops people from pulling an Alt-F4, or a direct kill of the process in Task Manager.

The only viable solution I see would incorporate some sort of detection system that'll keep track of whether you're "engaged".

For Zs, this could be as simple as not allowing you to log out within a certain distance of any Z(s).

For players, I'd assume it'd be a lot more complicated.

[/quote']

The server would still keep you in the game for 30 seconds after you alt+f4, pull the plug, whatever. The "log out" function would just let you remain in-game while "safely" logging out so you can respond to any threats during those 30 seconds.

[flincher14 0]

My clan mate told me he disconnected to avoid dying to some players he got shot by. I told him if it happened again I'd kill him myself.

I also warned that if either of the other players was running fraps just for fun they would be able to post the evidence on the forums and get him perma banned from all servers.

[tiff_lee 0]

My clan mate told me he disconnected to avoid dying to some players he got shot by. I told him if it happened again I'd kill him myself.

I also warned that if either of the other players was running fraps just for fun they would be able to post the evidence on the forums and get him perma banned from all servers.

This is the exact kind of thing I was talking about in post #23

[kazer 0]

Problem with that' date=' Sidion, is that nothing stops people from pulling an Alt-F4, or a direct kill of the process in Task Manager.

[/quote']

Yes there is.

If you log out the "clean way" and wait out the inactive period (say, 30 seconds), your character poofs out.

If you lose connection by any other mean, then your character remains in the world, uncontrolled by you, for a period of time that's longer than the clean inactive period (several minutes).

That way, force-closing the game in tough situation does more harm than good.

It does also mean that if you get genuinely disconnected at the wrong time, you might be screwed... tough luck.

[jorgamun 2]

Problem with that' date=' Sidion, is that nothing stops people from pulling an Alt-F4, or a direct kill of the process in Task Manager.

[/quote']

Yes there is.

If you log out the "clean way" and wait out the inactive period (say, 30 seconds), your character poofs out.

If you lose connection by any other mean, then your character remains in the world, uncontrolled by you, for a period of time that's longer than the clean inactive period (several minutes).

That way, force-closing the game in tough situation does more harm than good.

It does also mean that if you get genuinely disconnected at the wrong time, you might be screwed... tough luck.

That's why I think that rather than trying to curb the tools to disconnect effectively and punish potentially unlucky players, detection of abuse and punishment for repeated offenders is better.

[amentes 0]

Problem with that' date=' Sidion, is that nothing stops people from pulling an Alt-F4, or a direct kill of the process in Task Manager.

[/quote']

Yes there is.

If you log out the "clean way" and wait out the inactive period (say, 30 seconds), your character poofs out.

If you lose connection by any other mean, then your character remains in the world, uncontrolled by you, for a period of time that's longer than the clean inactive period (several minutes).

That way, force-closing the game in tough situation does more harm than good.

It does also mean that if you get genuinely disconnected at the wrong time, you might be screwed... tough luck.

Ok, fair's fair.

I wouldn't advocate any solution that ran the risk of people getting screwed hard for a disconnect though.

I haven't had too many disconnects myself, but I don't get the impression that the connections are all that stable either.

[kazer 0]

That's why I think that rather than trying to curb the tools to disconnect effectively and punish potentially unlucky players' date=' detection of abuse and punishment for repeated offenders is better.

[/quote']

There's not a way in the world to differentiate a willful disconnect from an accidental one.

The guy with an ISP/computer problem that's prone to losing connection can either have his character left in the world unattended, potentially being killed, or he can be auto-banned by a script that detected him disconnecting one too many time while being near a threat. He's screwed either way.

[jorgamun 2]

That's why I think that rather than trying to curb the tools to disconnect effectively and punish potentially unlucky players' date=' detection of abuse and punishment for repeated offenders is better.

[/quote']

There's not a way in the world to differentiate a willful disconnect from an accidental one.

The guy with an ISP/computer problem that's prone to losing connection can either have his character left in the world unattended, potentially being killed, or he can be auto-banned by a script that detected him disconnecting one too many time while being near a threat. He's screwed either way.

There are ways to analyze the behavior and determine likelihood of abuse versus general issue. You're wrong, but I don't want to reveal the ways publicly in case they simply be abused. They do exist though.

[tiff_lee 0]

The guy with an ISP/computer problem that's prone to losing connection can either have his character left in the world unattended' date=' potentially being killed, or he can be auto-banned by a script that detected him disconnecting one too many time while being near a threat. He's screwed either way.

[/quote']

Relic online (Company of Heroes) works similar to this although it doesn't ban, the first few disconnects you get the benefit of the doubt but after that every time you lose a connection genuine or not you forfeit and lose.

[kazer 0]

There are ways to analyze the behavior and determine likelihood of abuse versus general issue.

At that point you're just fiddling with the ratio of Type I to Type II errors.

The more your system is tough on willful DCers, the more accidental DCs you'll punish as collateral damage (False positives).

The more your system can be forgiving to accidental DCs, the more it'll be abusable for intentional DCs to get away with it (False negatives).

MMOs usually go for the former; minimizing false negatives at the expense of more false positives. It's because they know that if you leave ANY wiggle room to exploit a system, a subset of players will always end up abusing the hell out of it, ruining the experience for everyone else.

[jorgamun 2]

There are ways to analyze the behavior and determine likelihood of abuse versus general issue.

At that point you're just fiddling with the ratio of Type I to Type II errors.

The more your system is tough on willful DCers' date=' the more accidental DCs you'll punish as collateral damage (False positives).

The more your system can be forgiving to accidental DCs, the more it'll be abusable for intentional DCs to get away with it (False negatives).

MMOs usually go for the former; minimizing false negatives at the expense of more false positives. It's because they know that if you leave ANY wiggle room to exploit a system, a subset of players will always end up abusing the hell out of it, ruining the experience for everyone else.

[/quote']

That's not how my analysis would work, actually. It's behavioral studying that incorporates a lot of AI work that I have done. I can't really expose its innards because it would compromise its effectiveness, but the core of any anticheat system is that protecting innocent uses is the paramount objective.

[kazer 0]

That's not how my analysis would work' date=' actually. It's behavioral studying that incorporates a lot of AI work that I have done. I can't really expose its innards because it would compromise its effectiveness, but the core of any anticheat system is that protecting innocent uses is the paramount objective.

[/quote']

Are you claiming that your metric to discriminate innocent DC from willful DC is 100% PERFECT?

Because if it's not, then by definition, it has a Type I error rate, a Type II error rate, and they will be invertedly proportional.

If it's focused on not punishing innocents, then it'll be abusable to get away with intentional disconnects. No way around it.

[amentes 0]

The reason MMOs can take the hardline approach is that there's usually not a lot of consequence involved.

The same can't in any way be said for DayZ.

Honestly, I'd rather any system be lenient, and then having to rely on video evidence to catch people who do it. I'd rather have people abuse the system than risk screwing over the innocent.

People talk about DayZ and "realism" all the time, so lets take a leaf off of that and use a realistic justice system too.

[jorgamun 2]

That's not how my analysis would work' date=' actually. It's behavioral studying that incorporates a lot of AI work that I have done. I can't really expose its innards because it would compromise its effectiveness, but the core of any anticheat system is that protecting innocent uses is the paramount objective.

[/quote']

Are you claiming that your metric to discriminate innocent DC from willful DC is 100% PERFECT?

Because if it's not, then by definition, it has a Type I error rate, a Type II error rate, and they will be invertedly proportional.

If it's focused on not punishing innocents, then it'll be abusable to get away with intentional disconnects. No way around it.

Nothing is perfect. All bans are up to rocket regardless as it stands. The software just presents data about users and makes cases and likelihoods of them abusing the system.

Sure, it won't be 100% perfect, but it will be damned close (I think), and those that get unfairly banned if it happens will put up ban appeals and make their case.

[stilton 14]

People who are saying there's a problem with your character remaining idle inside the world with this arguement:

'lets not fix the problem incase we hurt people who accidently DC'

Lets face it.. You dont actually lose -anything- if you die.. that cant be replaced, just a waste of time.. We're here to solve a problem..

If you have terrible internet, perhaps you should get that fixed before you play a persistant online game with permadeath?

Right?