Make Dayz Harder! Part B: Zombies

[Graz (DayZ) 146]

Have your say on part A;

http://dayzmod.com/f...-part-a-cities/

Zombies have received a lot of attention and there is a ton of changes already proposed on the forums. Apologies in advance if I step on anyone's toes. These changes are to add more variation and immersion to the zombies, meaning that you need to have some situational awareness to survive which is what ARMA II is all about.

Part 1: Some ways to make zombies a 'living' terror;

• Zombies can play dead, they have the same detection properties but you'll need to be a bit more careful
  
• Zombies can climb through the windows: an extra animation for zombies to climb through windows that players can't (most likely too hard to implement)
  
• More body shots required before death
  
• Larger zombie to zombie detection, mainly so that you can't take one out in a corner so easily
  

Part 2: A more controversial change, feedback appreciated

• Armed Zombies
  

1. Melee armed zombie (crowbar or hatchet): these would always cause bleeding on hits and deal extra damage. They would have a reasonable chance to break bones.
   
2. Pistol armed zombie: a zombie would have a pistol (most likely makorov or G17)
   

• 2-3 bullets in chamber (less damage then 12,000 blood if you get crazy RNG)
  
• Extremely inaccurate: %20 or so
  
• Always cause bleeding on hit
  
• gun is lootable
  
• after shots are fired, is a normal zombie holding a useless (but lootable) pistol
  
• Shots alert nearby zombies
  

The reasons for this are to have a bit more immersion, it would also mean that not all shots mean an armed survivor is nearby. It's within reason that zombies can be armed and none of these zombies would be "imbalanced" it would mean a healthier supply of pistols for the new players, provided they are smart enough to take down an armed zombie.

Players would also be forced to engage and/or avoid some zombies. Meaning that some intelligence would be required when moving through an infested area.

Part 3 I put in some zombie 'fixes and changes' to balance them out a bit more

• No more bleeding on hit (armed zombies fill that role)
  
• No broken bones on hit (armed zombies can do that)
  
• Remove "Mike Tyson" bloodline from the zombies, no more knockouts please
  

As always, praise, flames, suggestions, beans are all welcome.

[Graz (DayZ) 146]

Reserved for Responses

Response: An armed zombie is too powerful.

I believe that this is up for debate, it's also more easily balanced out then you would think.

The inclusion of a gun isn't to make zombies ubercrazyimbasuperawesome, it's to add more immersion and to balance out the removal of zombies making you bleed all the time

The idea is simple, some zombies will cut you, others won't. It will require more situational awareness and target prioritizing

I would appreciate more feedback on what you don't like about armed zombies, is it that you feel zombies should be too stupid to use an axe or gun, or is it more of a gaming issue.

Yea to zombies playing dead, but everything else, no. If the zombies can walk through walls, they must not be able to climb through the windows too.

%100 agree, the bugs are an issue but they will be fixed at some point.

The 'zombie coming through the boarded up window' is a great cliche and gives you a very 'horde of morons running at you' feel.

This idea is assuming that the zombie speed and wall glitches are solved.

There is a bit of talk about zombies and the speed they move, this isn't something I haven't brought up and have no intention of talking about.

Zombie speed is mainly due to the engine from what I understand so I have no idea how to go about changing or 'fixing' it.

I like reading all your responses and would prefer something a little constructive,

no, no and no

Is an example of a retarded response, hating the ideas is perfectly fine, providing a reason is better!

Edited August 8, 2012 by Graz

[teteiyusu 36]

Dunno.

Would make being a solo player which I mostly am, kind annoying.

[Someonerandom 5]

Worst idea ever sorry I don't want to fight an armed zombie that's ridiculous sure it adds to difficulty but zombies simply don't use weapons and never will

[KILLERBUCK13 2]

Part a maybe, the rest NO. If a zombie is better armed than you, you know something wrong.

[Robert Shannon 27]

Yea to zombies playing dead, but everything else, no. If the zombies can walk through walls, they must not be able to climb through the windows too.

[ryokukitsune 5]

I'm for making zombies more difficult but I think they should spawn with predictable status ailments and levels of “health” that can be exploited to thin them out. Zombies shouldn't die from body shots they should only be immobilized until a killing blow. If paralyzed they should at least writhe to show to the player that they are still a minor threat. Zombies that hop/crawl have damage to their flanks or legs preventing them from walking up rite even indoors (stuck with the ground game) and zombies can only run/walk depending on how decayed they are (*more on walk/runner in the city thread). All of these would have grades of available health and acuity (runners would have higher health and be more aware than a walker, walkers more than monkeys or crawlers, so on) and when taking on a horde taking shots at their legs/flanks should slow them down by changing their posture and potential speed.

for zombies playing dead they would be similar to the immobilized zombie but instead of writhing on spawn they would be still until the player came to investigate them [landmines]. They would occasionally twitch but would start squirming at the last second to scare the crap out of the player who's trying to loot dem beans, they try to take a chunk.

I'm against armed zombies, at least the ones that can actually use weapons. I wouldn't be against finding empty or battered weapons on zombies. A slung AK on a soldier or a holstered pistol on a cop but the consensuses of the majority of the zombie genre is that the undead are to far removed from humanity to remember how to use them.

I find it a little unrealistic that damaged loot like that isn't found on zombies. A clenched hand around a rusted AK with a buffer spring dangling, an MP5 with a flowered barrel even a zombie with a pistol slide sticking out of his chest from a back fire. (last one is an exaggeration that would require asset modification) indoor civilian zombies too.

armed zombies I'm against, at least with zombies that use weapons. a soldier zombie with a batter AK slung or a police zombie with a holstered pistol is one thing but by consensis of the Zombie Genre majority zombies can't use weapons. I don't count RE:E chainsaw Zombies but I wouldn't be against the ocassional super mutant zombie stalking the woods for an extreamly rare challenge (like spawns once a week rare)

[harley001 315]

None of these should be implented until the game is fixed. Currently its a freaking mess. The zombies are to fast and the anamations are to spazzy. There is challenge then there is cheapness. PS before you say if the zombies were slow it would be to easy i am talking about running 80% the speed of the player. Also they hit though walls and waht not.

[zombiejun 13]

Nope. not. this. kind. of zombies.

Have you watched the movie "The Crazies"? that might just be the kind of zombies you are thinking about, this is DayZ, Nowhere near what you are talking about, sry brow :)

[zombiejun 13]

None of these should be implented until the game is fixed. Currently its a freaking mess. The zombies are to fast and the anamations are to spazzy. There is challenge then there is cheapness. PS before you say if the zombies were slow it would be to easy i am talking about running 80% the speed of the player. Also they hit though walls and waht not.

zombies run too fast? what would the thread be if you could outrun them??

[WavezZ 6]

Only like Part 1 :c

[Elektro (DayZ) 7]

Armed zombies? What the f%$^ did i just read ._.

[DieBrotmafia 79]

I'd do three things:

- Improve pathing so they run in a direct line towards you

- Make them run in buildings

- Implement some system so they have a chance of hitting you while you run

Would make everythin much more realistic and much harder, especially the last one

[Uuni 74]

I'd love to see the zombies be more like the walking dead zombies. They'd move jogging speed at best, straight at you, and appear in HUGE masses. Easy to shake off but would make some places inaccessable by sheer number

[harley001 315]

zombies run too fast? what would the thread be if you could outrun them??

THEIR ZOMBIES! If he wants them to be super humans then stop calling them zombies. And there is NO excuse for spazzy animations and zombies teleporting, going though solid objects, and hitting me from miles away. PS the crazies wasn't even about zombies!

[L0G!N (DayZ) 149]

Making DayZ harder is currently not something that can be done by messing with the infected. The biggest 'problem' is that we can outrun them forever, so untill some sort of stamina/fatigue system is implemented there is realy no use messing with the infected.

Actually i think my case is even proven by the fact that they seem to be somewhat broken atm. since Rocket tried to implement a chance based range spotting, something that totally ignores line of sight as it seems. Zeds seem to come for you from behind buildings or ridiculous ranges, not because they truely saw you, but because you drew a short straw...

The moment there is stamina, the zeds can likely move slower, since you won't be able to outrun them for ever, once they move slower they will also become less glitchy, as part of that is mostlikely due to the animation that is used for them currently. Pathing does not have to be improved, the problem is not so much that they have an zig-zag motion, the problem is that they do so at lightning speed. If they were to just run straight at you they are way to easy to shoot...

Anyways, i don't agree with any of these suggestions as first the player needs to be made less OP in regards to the infected, to create a more authentic movementspeed sceme (sprint = faster than zed-sprint, jog = slower than zed-sprint, zeds don't have fatigue). After which it's fairly likely the zeds will have to be toned down a bit instead of being made stronger!

[Senection 6]

no, no and no

damn how lucky that we got rocket, if you the comunity would manage this game it would be broke in les than a week

[Warped_Jack 16]

Zombies with melee weapons doesn't seem all that unlikely to me. It died with a crowbar in its hand, and just hasn't released that grip yet. There's no obligatory reason why it should.

Zombies with guns is a little less believable... If you take the argument that it was a guy who died with a gun in his hand, then it's kind of the same idea as above. But the gun should only go off by chance, misfire even. Say, the zombie hits you while holding a pistol, and that causes the pistol to go off. Could miss, could kill the zombie, could kill you.

[Bjorn9486 9]

I am all for making zombies the main threat of this game, but not armed zombies please.