Spawn with a hatchet?

[The OCD 10]

Pretty sure I didn't resort to name calling

No concessions to casuals, noobs, crybabies, studios, economic success, playability.

You are directly insinuating that this is what this thread is about and for, promoting "casual" play. Which it isn't. It's a means to counter broken game mechanics until they are fixed, ie glitchy as fuck zombies that new players don't know how to exploit to avoid.

No consessions, I'm not for anything that would make the game easier.

At what cost? Is your scale literally black and white? If it doesn't make it harder, it can't be a good thing?

I would be for spawning naked, I would be for a skill system that really punishes you for death and hampers new spawns thats what would make surviving that much greater.

Most people aren't for this type of gameplay; you are in the minority in this respect. Maybe have hardcore servers where you get 1 shot by zombies, while spawning with absolutely nothing in the middle of town with hundreds of zombies already aggro when you spawn. Sounds like your perfect game.

You do have a way to defend yourself, you can run or find a weapon.

I'm not sure if you know what defend means, but running away is not a way to defend yourself; It is a way to avoid confrontation. Finding a weapon sometimes is easier said than done when you're being chased into residential areas that only have 1 entrance and 1 exit. Not to mention, that again, zombies are extremely buggy inside buildings, can hit through walls etc.

Still haven't seen a valid argument. People are saying it would be easier or less realistic, but this game is in Alpha. This is when you try new things and test them out and get feedback. I bet if you asked newer players what the most annoying part of this game is when starting out, 9/10 you'd get an answer that has something to do with zombie aggro and it being unavoidable in small coastal towns.

[koze 113]

I disagree, when a new player starts he/she should know that they are unarmed and therefore vulnerable to zombies. If you think about it, the first time we played, we were shit scared of zombies. If you give people weapons when they spawn they loose that fear of death when they start DayZ, also the first thing players need to learn when they start is to be stealthy, if they have a hatchet then they would have a sence of security.

And lastly, starting with a hatchet wouldent fit the game.

[lemon65 2]

I like the punching ... maybe some small attack to get you started off .... but something that you really cant attack with normally

[xximrtwoixx 104]

You are directly insinuating that this is what this thread is about and for, promoting "casual" play. Which it isn't. It's a means to counter broken game mechanics until they are fixed, ie glitchy as fuck zombies that new players don't know how to exploit to avoid.

You don't fix glitches by wasting development time adding in new content or code that serves as a band aid, you fix the glitches.

At what cost? Is your scale literally black and white? If it doesn't make it harder, it can't be a good thing?

Pretty much, more authenticity usualy means a more difficult and frustrating experiance, this of course is not always the case but that would be off topic and semantics. I do agree that we appear to have a fundemental difference of opinion when it comes to what should/should not be included to effect playability. I think things should be included to punish poor choices by the player (The stick) while you appear to think that things should be given to players to make life easier (the carrot).

Most people aren't for this type of gameplay; you are in the minority in this respect. Maybe have hardcore servers where you get 1 shot by zombies, while spawning with absolutely nothing in the middle of town with hundreds of zombies already aggro when you spawn. Sounds like your perfect game.

I'm not sure if you are reffering to a skill system or to what you precieve as "hardcore".

Rocket has already said he is working on and has a skill system, so I don't really care what people think that don't like it, it needs to be included for authenticity and to introduce specialization and co-dependance.

I also know that the majority of gamers are precieved to disdain harsh games or punishment, this is why perma death is not included in major titles, because it is thought that players will not accept it. DayZ seems fairly popular though so this may be a misconception and if some players don't like it there will be a host of other games riding DayZ's coat-tails that will likely offer a more casual experiance. WarZ has already stated that Perma death will not be a base feature. Also based on what Rocket has said in interviews I think he wants to attempt to stay true to his vision, if thats possible with a studio eager for profits footing the dev costs though we will see I guess. This is also why I hope people that don't appreciate DayZ for what it is soon move on to other titles, You can have everything else we just want this one...

I'm not sure if you know what defend means, but running away is not a way to defend yourself; It is a way to avoid confrontation. Finding a weapon sometimes is easier said than done when you're being chased into residential areas that only have 1 entrance and 1 exit. Not to mention, that again, zombies are extremely buggy inside buildings, can hit through walls etc.

Thats your biggest mistake, never leave yourself without an exit. You could learn to avoid it, there are a very limited number of building models that are re-used in the map and you can respawn. This is a perfect example of why ,I and others, see your issues as you making poor survival decisions. I agree Z's do glitch in/around buildings, and this has been attempted to be fixed several times,. I don't really see how this would be effected by you having a weapon though, you can't hit them through the wall and would still have to avoid walls as you do if your unarmed.

Also running away is a way of defending yourself from harm, as you stated your avoiding confrontation. Do you think you are going to chop your way through a horde unharmed? From my experiance this is not the case IG, and I think it would be in authentic if it were the case.

Still haven't seen a valid argument. People are saying it would be easier or less realistic, but this game is in Alpha. This is when you try new things and test them out and get feedback. I bet if you asked newer players what the most annoying part of this game is when starting out, 9/10 you'd get an answer that has something to do with zombie aggro and it being unavoidable in small coastal towns.

This has been asked, 3 times in fact via a poll.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/viewanalytics?formkey=dFYtUm1EdmRkcVRTelJremg2Y3MtakE6MQ#gid=0

https://spreadsheets.google.com/viewanalytics?formkey=dDBoc1pMTElvaXRBVWtYMDBpR2RaVEE6MQ#gid=0

https://spreadsheets.google.com/viewanalytics?formkey=dFpVdWltTGRHZVBSSkpIV1lQSmdWS2c6MQ#gid=0

It looks like you are in the minority when it comes to thinking the game is to difficult at spawn.

[Smiric 11]

I don't agree with starting wit a hatchet but I DO think that you should be able to punch zombies - it won't cause any damage (or very VERY little at most) and has a SMALL chance of knocking it down, therefore players will still rather run away and use their fists in a last ditch attempt if they end up in a corner somewhere. Also a chance that a zombie can grab you whilst you are punching it would also deter the use of fists.

[The OCD 10]

Thats your biggest mistake, never leave yourself without an exit. You could learn to avoid it, there are a very limited number of building models that are re-used in the map and you can respawn. This is a perfect example of why ,I and others, see your issues as you making poor survival decisions. I agree Z's do glitch in/around buildings, and this has been attempted to be fixed several times,. I don't really see how this would be effected by you having a weapon though, you can't hit them through the wall and would still have to avoid walls as you do if your unarmed.

I have already said that I am not suggesting this for personal benefit. I have been playing for almost a month and am more than capable of survival. My longest survival thus far was maybe 14 days I think, and I was murdered in cold blood.

That being said, out of all the places I have spawned, 5/8 are in or near small coastal cities that only have residential homes with 1 entrance and 1 exit. When cornered in a life or death situation, would you not fight tooth and nail to survive? Oh, nope. Looks like I only have this useless giant flashlight, and I never learned how to use my arms or legs to defend myself, guess i'll just lay down and let this dude enjoy his meal. It doesn't make sense.

This has been asked, 3 times in fact via a poll.

https://spreadsheets...3MtakE6MQ#gid=0

https://spreadsheets...2RaVEE6MQ#gid=0

https://spreadsheets...mdWS2c6MQ#gid=0

It looks like you are in the minority when it comes to thinking the game is to difficult at spawn.

The percentage of people that voted is less than 1% of the number of concurrent players at any one time. Not to mention that the polls were probably advertised on the forums, and let's be honest, only a small portion of gamers ever visit any forum, and usually only when they have a problem they can't solve. If those numbers were a little more substantial, maybe twenty-thirty thousand votes, I'd be more inclined to back you on the matter. From my experience, "hardcore" or "devoted" gamers are more likely to visit the forums than others, seeing as that's the place to find up to the minute changes and a place where people can express their ideas and try to change their favorite games for the better.

We can agree to disagree, but I will say that spawning with a hatchet probably wouldn't be the best scenario as far as its usefulness goes. With that being said, having SOME way to defend yourself in those clutch moments as a noob is absolutely necessary. Even if it's just being able to throw your flashlight at an infected or pissing in his face, anything is better than laying down and dying with no alternative.

[pepsiblue 8]

The problem here is that people aren't thinking about the design of the game. You don't need a weapon to defend yourself. You don't need to kill zombies. Killing them is pointless. And if you aren't good at running away from zombies, you are going to die in the zombie apocalypse anyway. This isn't a little kids game. ANd I know games on the wii that are tougher to learn than dayz. People are lazy. (that rhymes)

Truth be told. I was attracted to the game by the stories of starting with nothing. So i, dont see any reason in complaining or making it newbie friendly or anything.; Those were the things i signed up for. Now if someone is running around promoting this game as a Left for Dead wanna be... then yes, new players will be unaware, and perhaps upset.

My only complaint is that I get too attatched to my gear. And I refrain from playing, because I don't wanna die. Perhaps after I become a bandit, I won't mind as much.

[braaienator 1]

You should atleast spawn with a crow bar, takes lots of hits to kill zombies and they should make that it wears out of 100 hits for example.

[The OCD 10]

The problem here is that people aren't thinking about the design of the game. You don't need a weapon to defend yourself. You don't need to kill zombies. Killing them is pointless. And if you aren't good at running away from zombies, you are going to die in the zombie apocalypse anyway. This isn't a little kids game. ANd I know games on the wii that are tougher to learn than dayz. People are lazy. (that rhymes)

Truth be told. I was attracted to the game by the stories of starting with nothing. So i, dont see any reason in complaining or making it newbie friendly or anything.; Those were the things i signed up for. Now if someone is running around promoting this game as a Left for Dead wanna be... then yes, new players will be unaware, and perhaps upset.

My only complaint is that I get too attatched to my gear. And I refrain from playing, because I don't wanna die. Perhaps after I become a bandit, I won't mind as much.

This WILL be a standalone game at some point, and saying it shouldn't be "noob" friendly is ignorant at best. Never having played the game before, you would be a noob. Everyone who has never played DayZ is a noob at DayZ.

You DO need a weapon to defend yourself. Running away is not defense, as much as you people would like to argue. You DO need to kill "zombies"(infected humans), because they will otherwise chase you to the ends of the earth.

I said this in an earlier post; making something user-friendly doesn't mean making it easier. It just means that people won't be wasting all their fucking time having to run from infected until they figure out how they work. This is a unique genre, and there is definitely a learning curve. Not everyone is a "hardcore noob pwner" like you, and alienating the portion of gamers that are being "pwned" is not a good way to launch a new product that you would like to support.

[Choobeast 4]

As a noob that managed to survive his first night entirely and come out of it, I will say that there is a certain logic to having some sort of item intially. It could be something as simple as a rock that we pick up off the beach. As this game is closer to a simulation than anything else, it seems odd to me the limited number of items which can be used as melee weapons.

I understand that ARMA2 did not have melee weapons, but in a real-world situation where you found yourself suddenly on zombie-island on a beach, you may well pick up a rock. It wouldn't be the best of weapons, but if you were to find a zombie sniffing at a corpse with a gun near it, or a bit of food than you would be able to use it to sneak up and bash the thing in the head repeatedly.

I'm definitely all for the game being hard, but I also want to feel like it's hard because of the zombies and survivalism, not because my character is too idiotic to figure out that one of the poles from a tank trap (example) would make a fantastic head-bashing club.

As well, though this might be a limitation of the ARMA2 engine, why is it that we're incapable of carrying an axe, a pistol, and a rifle? It might be somewhat cumbersome, but in real-life one could manage that combo far more easily than they could manage 5 stacks of firewood, a rifle, and a pistol. Perhaps make the Axe take up 4 toolbelt slots?

[dra6o0n 15]

The funny thing is that the players here thinks that playing DayZ makes them a hardcore player, when they barely play other games of the same type.

Nobody here played Haven and Hearth? If not, then that makes the 'hardcore' player a noob in my view.

Do you play various mmorpgs, a few hundred games, do you check out gaming news, and non-gaming softwares that can be coordinated with games?

Edited August 7, 2012 by dra6o0n

[Dimes123 60]

just play arma 2 and don't try to ruin Dayz!

DayZ isn't a game you moron!

this community has turned to crap

[magmatrix 38]

another delusional player who thinks he actually is in a zombie apocolypse, news flash dumbshit, if the developers have big plans to further this mod or release a standalone they need to make this game more user friendly, any potential players will be pissed off if they get a spawn next to 6 zombies and they have nothing to defend themselves with.

Jeez, man... cool down a bit. What's with all the name calling and stuff? u mad?

I have played DayZ for a while now and i love it. I love they way you actually have to find out how things work, which isn't that hard unless you are a lazy ass cod fanboi or just plain retarded. No starting weapons is needed, in fact everything got better when the Makarov and beans were removed. Before that, you got killed by noobs as soon as you spawned on the beach.

And as for potential players, i don't think Rocket needs to whore just to get more players. Despite your hate, it already has a million players...

[magmatrix 38]

I think the real question iswhy the fuck do you care if a brand new player to the game has a melee weapon so he doesn't die right as he spawns? Does it peev you're delusional wanna-be zombie survivalist shut-in mindset to see that new players get even a tiny bit of help? do you just like to see people struggle? Now go on and tell me how ' THIS GAME IS SUPPOSED TO BE LIKE REAL LIFE' and deny that you're full on delusional.

Spawning with a hatchet means that you will be hunted down and axed to death by noobs/griefers/dumbasses spawning beside you on the beach.

Being unarmed is also more authentic. Why would you have a melee weapon when you are flushed up on the beach? Having to struggle is part of the experience, or maybe you would like to spawn with a M240 and 2000 rounds? No thanks.

[magmatrix 38]

Most people aren't for this type of gameplay; you are in the minority in this respect.

I don't think that's true. Do you have any data to back up that statement?

I agree completely with Mr Two - you should spawn without anything and you should have hard time trying to survive. That's what is is all about.

[Choobeast 4]

Spawning with a hatchet means that you will be hunted down and axed to death by noobs/griefers/dumbasses spawning beside you on the beach.

Being unarmed is also more authentic. Why would you have a melee weapon when you are flushed up on the beach? Having to struggle is part of the experience, or maybe you would like to spawn with a M240 and 2000 rounds? No thanks.

This "authenticity" argument seems to me a bit of a silly one. Yeah, you might not have a hatchet, but what's to stop you from walking up the beach to the rocky ground and picking up a stone? Something basic that lets you fight? Real authenticity would involve punching, zombies grabbing you and you trying to hold them back and push them off of you, sneaking up and bashing in a zombie's brain with a piece of metal you find in the train-yard. Not magical knives that can't be used to attack anything or anyone, only axes and crowbars as weapons while many other instruments would be far more realistic.

I'm not suggesting that the devs have done a poor job, I just find your argument to be poor. As well, I want to feel that the game is hard because it's hard, not because the game has been designed to restrict me from functioning in ways that are logical.

Edited August 7, 2012 by Choobeast

[The_Weapon1 33]

Ok first of all explain this to me, Why on earth would you wash up on the beach with a hatchet? Secondly this is a survival game, if you spawn with stuff on you is pretty unrealistic, you are supposed to scavenge for supplies which is not hard at all. If you go to 1 barn you will more then likely find enough melee weapons or basic weapons for you and several friends. If you are new to the mod and don't know where stuff is read the basic tutorials, It took me literally 30 minutes to find out where good loot supplies and heavy player activity would be when I started out.

[Badjr 44]

Am I the only person who finds 15 hatchets within the first couple minutes after a new spawn?

[BalborValis 4]

Hatches aren't all that hard to find, but it is pretty hard to find one without getting agro, and the first thing you need to do after finding it is arm it, reload it and then kill off all the zombies you've pulled. The melee system needs to be improved so that they can be equipped without having to move them to the primary slot, and could do with a rider range, lead pipes, metal bards, machetes, baseball bats etc.

Starting without even a melee weapon wouldn't be such a problem is zombies didn't run so fast. Making them only move at walking space but require headshots to kill (ie classic Dawn of the Dead style zombies)

[Dimes123 60]

Am I the only person who finds 15 hatchets within the first couple minutes after a new spawn?

no you're not. we should start with a crowbar

[Badjr 44]

Hatches aren't all that hard to find, but it is pretty hard to find one without getting agro, and the first thing you need to do after finding it is arm it, reload it and then kill off all the zombies you've pulled. The melee system needs to be improved so that they can be equipped without having to move them to the primary slot, and could do with a rider range, lead pipes, metal bards, machetes, baseball bats etc.

Starting without even a melee weapon wouldn't be such a problem is zombies didn't run so fast. Making them only move at walking space but require headshots to kill (ie classic Dawn of the Dead style zombies)

Zombies don't run fast; they run barely faster than the player, and when they catch up to the player they have to stop to attack. Unless you're walking backwards, a zombie won't be able to hit you while you're running.

On top of that, all you have to do is run into a building to lose aggro. Sure they'll walk in, but they won't be aggroed to you anymore they'll just walk around like "hurr durr what did I come in here for again?"

no you're not. we should start with a crowbar

Why would you wash up on the beach with a crowbar?

Not to mention, it'd be replaced as soon as you found a hatchet

Edited August 8, 2012 by Badjr

[magmatrix 38]

You DO need a weapon to defend yourself. Running away is not defense, as much as you people would like to argue. You DO need to kill "zombies"(infected humans), because they will otherwise chase you to the ends of the earth.

Are we even playing the same game? I play this thing called "DayZ" where i don't HAVE to shoot zombies, i just do it at times when i'm in a hurry and don't want to sneak around them. Or if i have a shit load of ammo and just want to see how many headshots i can score.

Most of the time, shooting zombies is just a way to invite bandits to kill you...

[paradox. 12]

Spawning without any way to defend yourself is incredibly hard for a new player. They don't know how the zombie aggro works, much less how to equip/use hatchets initially if they were to stumble on them. If you aggro even 1 zombie in the starter zone, you either have to kite it into a building with multiple doors, or just run forever until you finally lose it behind a building or something.

I just think starting without any way to defend yourself initially is pretty crippling. Maybe not even a hatchet, maybe just punching animations; like 4-5 punches and you can knock a zombie down and be able to run away from it while it's trying to get back up or something.

Thoughts/comments/concerns about starting with a melee weapon equipped when you spawn?

I think you should only spawn with a bandage and that is all imo.. would make it alot harder.

[The OCD 10]

Difficulty for the sake of difficulty is not intuitive. It isn't actually difficult, the mechanics just suck.

"Why would you wash up on the beach with a hatchet?".

Why do you wash up on the beach with anything? Your flashlight surely doesn't work after the batteries have been soaking in salt water for however long they have been and were corroded by salt water. Your bandage would be far from useful, even in its little package. You probably wouldn't have any shoes, and you would be so dehydrated you wouldn't be able to walk or see straight. ENOUGH with the "realistic" "authentic" comments; You don't even justify why, you are basically saying "this is how it should be" with no support for anything you say. That's how children argue, they don't discuss things.

To all of the arguments saying "Well I can do this", "I'm a badass", "I have over 9000 headshots".

YOU ARE NOT A NEW PLAYER

That is what this is about. I KNOW you can run inside buildings to lose aggro. I KNOW you can sneak around infected most of the time. I KNOW that you can easily get headshots. I KNOW how infected move and how their aggro works.

NEW PLAYERS DON'T KNOW ANY OF THESE THINGS

This isn't about "whoring" out to a larger market, it's about making the game playable from the beginning without getting frustrated. Like I said, not everyone like's getting raped by infected while they hide in a corner every-time they spawn and try to loot a building. How are you going to know how to use a hatchet the first time you pick it up? It goes onto your toolbelt and you spend the next 5 minutes figuring out how one of the 5 basic game mechanics works because it isn't intuitive.

I would be for spawning naked, I would be for a skill system that really punishes you for death and hampers new spawns thats what would make surviving that much greater.

Most people aren't for this type of gameplay; you are in the minority in this respect.

I don't think that's true. Do you have any data to back up that statement?

While there aren't many relative statistics to gamer type per se on this particular issue, it's easy to see the distribution of games. Most games are just watered down re-hashes of tried and true content. How many games do you see that punish the gamer adequately for dying or punish you beyond reason for trying to play the game? I can't name a single one. Mainly because that's counter-intuitive for wanting people to play your game... Punishing them for playing it? Here's a link with some random statistics:

http://thegamerguyra...ss.com/2012/01/

[HardCoreNinja7 24]

Why spawn with one they are too easy to find..