Duping: 3/4 of High Level Gear is Duplicated

[Heiduk 265]

Even without duping, desirable weapons are going to proliferate really quickly if the only limit on abundance is spawn probability.

My understanding is that helo crash loot only spawns on server restarts. Does anyone know how many crashes there are per server?

Without knowing that lets assume that on average 1 helo crash is found per server restart. If the server restarts every 6 hours someone is finding a helo crash, with a 0.87% chance of an AS 50 four times a day on that server. After 7 days, the probability that someone found an AS 50 at a crash site on that server is 24.36% After 30 days it is over 100%.

DayZ Commander is currently showing 3779 servers. If all of the servers follow the probabilities given above, and everyone takes the AS 50, a legitimate AS 50 from a looted crash site would be added to the Hive every 11 minutes. How often do those weapons get discarded?

Of course, without any data on how often helo crashes get looted all of the above are just guesses. So lets assume four lootings per server day is way to optimistic. Instead, assume someone finds a helo crash only once every 7 days on each server. That still means a legitimate AS 50 gets added to the Hive every 5.1 hours.

I have little doubt that more AS 50s have been found in DayZ than were ever produced by Accuracy International.

If weapon availability is supposed to be even slightly realistic there really needs to be a cap on the total number of each weapon in the Hive in addition to just spawn probability.

[DarkwaveDomina 1099]

Heiduk you get all my beans.

[Shaimou 49]

Suckers. I have so much satchel charges I could make Chernarus a big smoking crater. I also have so much military guns I could run a gun monopoly.

[Yeni 53]

People dupe so much, I stop by cherno when Im in need of nice gear and kill the people camping on top of the factories.

[NoRegrets 495]

He's saying that it was a 0.87% chance to spawn, and he's right. Don't a dick to somebody if you're wrong.

he mentioned a 0.87% chance and said you will NEVER find one at a helicopter crash site

[mburch2 1]

I agree with the OP. It's far too easy to roam the north as a fresh spawn and find the atypical clusterf$%ck of cloned tents full of gear. And not just one, but multiples of items.

Doesn't stop me from looting the hell out of these places though.

That being said, solving the duping problem, plus fixing the 'full magazine upon login', will drastically reduce the number of guns floating around. Ammo may actually be an issue for a change.

Edited August 5, 2012 by mburch2

[osirish 165]

0.87% chance to spawn in one loot spot. Choppers have have many loot spots? 4,5,6 .... so it's .87% x (number of loot spots per chopper) x (number of crashed choppers) = not as rare as everyone thinks.

[BL1P 252]

Some people say the problem is part of Arma2 and cant be fixed

This is false.

dupeing wasn't so prevelant in earlier versions of dayz tents did not dupe items when you took them down.

vehicles did not hold all items when you saved them after a restart of the server.

the problem was a bi-product of a faulty update to dayz and is not a fault of arma2

[DarkwaveDomina 1099]

dupeing wasn't so prevelant in earlier versions of dayz tents did not dupe items when you took them down.

In fairness, earlier versions of DayZ weren't as popular. It's only been around a short time and has recently exploded.

As for tents, well, according to people on this forum tents are not required for duping and Google agrees.

[Dagyr 16]

he mentioned a 0.87% chance and said you will NEVER find one at a helicopter crash site

And the average player may very well never see one.How long does it take the average player to find one heli? Each heli has 5-6 loot spots that have a CHANCE to spawn loot. It has a 0.87 chance to spawn, you have about a 5% chance to see an AS50 at a heli site (0.87*6 = 5.22% chance per heli). Now assuming that it takes ONLY an hour to find a heli (which is REALLLLLLY common and should likely be 5+ game hours of searching) that's STILL 20 hours of gameplay to JUST FIND ONE AS50, however because "chance has no memory" and each heli is different, it is VERY possible for someone to NEVER see an as50 drop from a Heli. Assuming you play DayZ for 200 hours (which is a lot of gametime) that's still you dedicating *10%* of your TOTAL gametime to finding ONE SINGLE GUN.

Now let's go off of the other estimate and say that you find one heli every five hours, which is still pretty damn good luck. That means that it takes you *100 HOURS* to "Find" and AS50. A lot of people probably don't put 100 hours into a game, period. Let alone looking for helis. IF you play DayZ for 1000 HOURS, you have spent 10% of your time finding ONE GUN. Think about it in those terms and suddenly you realize just how rare it SHOULD be.

As a final note, let's take a realistic estimate. Let's say you find one heli every ten hours, which I'm sure for some people would be one heli every day or every two days. Not bad at all, right?

That means that you spent 200 hours to find a single gun. Yet everyone and his friend has an AS50.

Think on that.

"You would imagine that you would NEVER see an AS50 spawn at a helicopter crash. (Source: http://picacid.com/arma2/loot_en.html)"

Edited August 6, 2012 by Dagyr

[NoRegrets 495]

and whenever you destroy and loot the hell out of a tent it simple respawns with all the loot after the next server restart ... so its not always the players

i duped myself TWICE accidently ... i logged in ... i died instantly ... was moved to the debug forest ... hit abort ... and i spawned in front of my dead body with all the loot duped ... dont know how this is even possible ...

then i took of my ghillie two days ago ... logged out in the camp ... cause we had nothing to do ... logged back in and i spawned inside my own body?!? .. we were all like ... "there is a player in the campppp" .. but when i hit "Study body" my player name appeared and we were all like wtf ...

Edited August 6, 2012 by NoRegrets

[batflaps 20]

If you wipe the server then good guys who find helo crash sites with 2 50cals get them deleted..... and all the other stuff Ive collect... FT.

[BL1P 252]

In fairness, earlier versions of DayZ weren't as popular. It's only been around a short time and has recently exploded.

As for tents, well, according to people on this forum tents are not required for duping and Google agrees.

I realise that there are more people playing now than before.

But ...

the duping has arrived with the updates not the amount of players.

Myself.. I have been playing the mod since its 4th day of release on the BIS forums.

and from playing the game I can say that the duping was created by an update to dayz and was not present in earlier versions of the mod.

before you could place tents and save them with out duping.

before you could save vehicles and gear and when the server restarted they would not dupe.

[Sakeoe (DayZ) 115]

Let's be reall, duping wouldn't be a problem if they removed tents to begin with (apart from the infamous backpack zombie trick). Tents don't deserve a place in a game where you are supposed to lose everything when you die.

Lives need to get a reall meaning again in this game, not just "Oh I died i'll just run to my camp and get my gear back" even if the gear is not duped.

[Daddy'o (DayZ) 146]

Even if duping was fixed, item inflation would cause the very same result although at slower pace.

Many people consider AS50 to be the best sniper in the game, hence any player would be most likely to pick it up. These would only be left behind by mostly by players that already have one. Only the small portion that would be left behind up to the next server restart, would disappear from the game, all the while more is constantly being introduced IN to the items pool.

[John Grimmer 11]

I killed a sniper, and got an AS50 and a rangefinder! I thought I was super lucky. Until I kill another one, and get the exact same loot. Sure is amazing how many AS50's there are, and how those lucky shmucks always have so many rounds of ammo!

[DarkwaveDomina 1099]

How long does it take the average player to find one heli? Each heli has 5-6 loot spots that have a CHANCE to spawn loot. It has a 0.87 chance to spawn, you have about a 5% chance to see an AS50 at a heli site (0.87*6 = 5.22% chance per heli). Now assuming that it takes ONLY an hour to find a heli (which is REALLLLLLY common and should likely be 5+ game hours of searching) that's STILL 20 hours of gameplay to JUST FIND ONE AS50, however because "chance has no memory" and each heli is different, it is VERY possible for someone to NEVER see an as50 drop from a Heli.

It's not actually that hard to find helis if you're looking for them and covering a lot of open ground, as well as checking places people wouldn't normally look. I'm not a great DayZ player but for as long as I've been hunting helis I've found 2-6 per day without trying very hard, so that 5.22% chance per heli is actually very good and explains why I ran in to two AS50s, an M14 AIM, and an FN Fal over the course of last night and this morning.

As I've been saying throughout this thread, duping undoubtedly happens but this gear is just not as rare as people think if you know how to find and retrieve it.

Even if duping was fixed, item inflation would cause the very same result although at slower pace.

That's why I support some kind of item decay mechanic. My friends are always complaining about how they get good gear and are then bored because they're afraid to use it, because they know it'll last forever if they just stay out of trouble.

Edited August 6, 2012 by Ulfhedjinn

[NoRegrets 495]

And the average player may very well never see one.How long does it take the average player to find one heli? Each heli has 5-6 loot spots that have a CHANCE to spawn loot. It has a 0.87 chance to spawn, you have about a 5% chance to see an AS50 at a heli site (0.87*6 = 5.22% chance per heli). Now assuming that it takes ONLY an hour to find a heli (which is REALLLLLLY common and should likely be 5+ game hours of searching) that's STILL 20 hours of gameplay to JUST FIND ONE AS50, however because "chance has no memory" and each heli is different, it is VERY possible for someone to NEVER see an as50 drop from a Heli.

Assuming you play DayZ for 200 hours (which is a lot of gametime) that's still you dedicating *10%* of your TOTAL gametime to finding ONE SINGLE GUN.

"You would imagine that you would NEVER see an AS50 spawn at a helicopter crash. (Source: http://picacid.com/arma2/loot_en.html)"

there a some helicopter crash sites and everytime a server restarts new crash sites spawn with new loot .. so lets assume a server restarts 2 - 4 times a day ... there are over 10 crash sites on each server every day ... plenty of people running around ... grabbing the stuff, run back to elektro .. die ... someone picks it up ... dies ... -> body despawns .. gun is gone ...

sometimes you get lucky ... i once spawned at the coast ... and took out a guy who was camping on top of the radio tower on the "sniper hill" near cherno ... i dont give a flying fuck where he had is stuff from ... he had an AS50, NVGs, Rangefinder etc ... i took it ... if somebody would have shot me he would instantly assume im a noob who knows how to dupe ... so its a never ending cycle ..

sure the problem exists ... but its not the players fault ... its the engine/game/alpha that makes it possible .. and as long its possible people will abuse it ... i'm sure the devs are aware of the problem and they will keep an eye on it ...

[Dagyr 16]

It's not actually that hard to find helis if you're looking for them and covering a lot of open ground, as well as checking places people wouldn't normally look. I'm not a great DayZ player but for as long as I've been hunting helis I've found 2-6 per day without trying very hard, so that 5.22% chance per heli is actually very good and explains why I ran in to two AS50s, an M14 AIM, and an FN Fal over the course of last night and this morning.

As I've been saying throughout this thread, duping undoubtedly happens but this gear is just not as rare as people think if you know how to find and retrieve it.

I'm sure if you did nothing for a week but run around looking for heli's for 10 hours a day, of course you'll find it. The estimates are assuming people actually want to "play" the game, not just run around in a circuit looking for downed heli's.

[BL1P 252]

Even if duping was fixed, item inflation would cause the very same result although at slower pace.

Many people consider AS50 to be the best sniper in the game, hence any player would be most likely to pick it up. These would only be left behind by mostly by players that already have one. Only the small portion that would be left behind up to the next server restart, would disappear from the game, all the while more is constantly being introduced IN to the items pool.

Good point.. if in understand you correctly your saying :-

That because of the high value of an item more people keep that item from the loot spawns.

Then when they get killed that item then gets passed along to other players who loot the bodys. hence not a part of the randomised loot spawns.

Thus increasing the amount of that item over the global server loot pool ?

[DarkwaveDomina 1099]

I'm sure if you did nothing for a week but run around looking for heli's for 10 hours a day, of course you'll find it. The estimates are assuming people actually want to "play" the game, not just run around in a circuit looking for downed heli's.

That's a cool assumption, and it sounds a little bitter from your tone, but you're wrong. I play a few hours a day (it might be six or so at the weekend), it's just not that hard to find crashed helis and sometimes you're just lucky.

I don't run a circuit either, and forgive me for saying so but this is a sandbox game and for many people heli hunting is part of "playing" the game, as is anything else you can potentially do in a sandbox game. You can play it how you like, I will play it how I like.

Edited August 6, 2012 by Ulfhedjinn

[Daddy'o (DayZ) 146]

Good point.. if in understand you correctly your saying :-

That because of the high value of an item more people keep that item from the loot spawns.

Then when they get killed that item then gets passed along to other players who loot the bodys. hence not a part of the randomised loot spawns.

Thus increasing the amount of that item over the global server loot pool ?

Exactly.

And this is happening for every high value item. Mainly rangefinders, NVGs, SVD camos, AS50s, L85A2s, M4 SDs and such.

Edited August 6, 2012 by Daddy'o

[Dagyr 16]

That's a cool assumption, and it sounds a little bitter from your tone, but you're wrong. I play a few hours a day (it might be six or so at the weekend), it's just not that hard to find crashed helis and sometimes you're just lucky.

I don't run a circuit either, and forgive me for saying so but this is a sandbox game and for many people heli hunting is part of "playing" the game, as is anything else you can potentially do in a sandbox game. You can play it how you like, I will play it how I like.

I'm not saying that it isn't, that's why it was in quotes, but I (again) assume Rocket developed DayZ with more in mind than running to all the heli crash sites repeatedly for days on end.

DayZ really needs some kind of a "weapon decay system" where you would have to repair. clean, or perform maintenance on your gun or it would break or something along those lines.

Edited August 6, 2012 by Dagyr

[The2ndLink 156]

my friend said too that it ruins the game, but we all do it anyways. because when he dies. it isnt THAT bad.

without duplicating this game would suck shit and i would start hacking, or quit :)

Without exploiding and hacking the game would "suck shit"?

Well then GET THE FUCK OUT! Go uninstall moron.

[Bubba Jones 30]

.87% chance of an AS50 per helicopter loot spawn location. Average of 5 loot locations per helicopter spawn. 5 helicopter spawns per server each restart. Most servers restart every 8 hours, so 3 restarts per day.

Now, I know percentages don't add up the way I'm going to do it, but just to give you a rough idea.

Approximate chance to find an AS50 per crash is 0.87 * 5 = 4.35%

5 crashes per server gives you about a 20% chance to find one on each server after a restart

3 restarts per server per day is about 60% chance each day to find an AS50 on each server.

Edit: added some additional clarification.

Oh, and 80% of all statistics are made up 75% of the time.

Edited August 6, 2012 by Bubba Jones