My thoughts after 2 months of play

[Trickster (DayZ) 10]

Hey guys. So I've been reading this forums since I started playing, but I never really took the time to register. I just wanted to share my thoughts regarding some aspects of the game that I've formed an opinion on. I want to state ahead of this, that I've read the threads on why Arma2 is the way it is regarding hackers and whatnot, and why a lot of things just can't be changed by Rocket. I accept that, and I know that some of the things I'll say can't possibly be fixed until the game goes standalone. I love DayZ, and this isn't one of those "omg im quitting game sucks" threads. I work on a development team for a relatively successful game modification (not Arma2 based) myself, so I know how mods run into these kinds of limitations. So this is really just a gathering of my thoughts.

After playing for this last 2 months, I've played in a variety of ways. Most of it has been aimed at banditry, but the style of play has varied. I've trekked around the map on foot, avoiding players, surviving off what I can find. I moved on to living outside of towns and avoiding them, using helicopter crash sites and deer stands to sustain my weaponry needs, even though I barely used them. I later ended up with more players involved, and we formed camps, did battle with what was possibly a cheating clan, lost vehicles, regained vehicles, etc. But I haven't encountered any real hacking so I haven't felt that frustration personally.

1) Kit Inflation is really hurting the game. I saw a thread about this a few days ago and I don't think the majority of people agreed with it, but I thoroughly agree with the poster. End-game kit is way too common these days, and this isn't due to the amount of spawns. The natural cycle of kit being lost and found is completely out of whack due to the amount of duplication and script-spawning of weaponry. Back when I started, I must have been one of the first people to find an L85 AWS. It wasn't on the wiki, only a couple of threads mentioned it and virtually everyone thought it was hacked. Now, I find that nearly 50% of the people I kill have one. This is just a single example (I would argue that thermal probably shouldn't be in the game at all), but it goes for most top-end weapons. End-game kit is too easy to come across. You don't loot towns, or the airfield, or even players if you want to avoid the risk. Anyone spending 30-60 minutes to avoid doing that, but the problem is, why would anyone disadvantage themselves against all the other players who do this? Until a time in which duplication is no longer possible, I honestly wouldn't mind if there was a total reset every 4-6 weeks, to keep the vehicles and weaponry levels cycling properly.

2) Chernarus has too much wasted space. This leads from my last point. The 2km boundary around the map where people form bases is really bad for the game in general. It keeps players out of the main gameplay area and just stagnates things so much. It's just an area for high-level kit storage and vehicle hoarding. It's not really what DayZ is about. But the fact is, you can't blame people for it, the option is there, and you can't expect anyone to put themselves at a disadvantage. I know the map won't be changed because it's an Arma2 map, but if in the standalone game things can be changed, I would like to see an island map, or at least the wasted space made use of, with the map boundary being up close to points of interest, so that people can't hide there.

3) This is arguably my most controversial point, and one I feel people will disagree with the most. This might not be as much as a problem as I believe it to be, as it could very well be point #2 causing this, but I feel that the ability to hunt animals and fill up bottles from lakes doesn't really enhance the game, and the game could be improved with this removed. People should be encouraged to enter towns, to take the risk, to encounter players more, not to hide in the forest avoiding all human contact. You can argue that this is a survival simulator, but it is a game. With any game, if you give people a less-fun, but more "sensible" option, they'll take it. But if people had to go into towns, I feel like the game would flow a lot better. I had a character live for 6 weeks by avoiding this kind of thing. But did I have fun? Not really. I've had more fun cycling through my last 5 characters in a much shorter timeframe.

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EDIT: In later posts in this thread, I've tried to clarify that I've really put my point across poorly with regard to hunting. As stated in my later posts, there are ways around the problem, it's just that they aren't really possible with the current Arma 2 version of DayZ. Ideas such as your hatchet blunting over time so it has to be replaced, it taking 2-3 minutes to cook meat (added risk of being seen), requiring water purification tablets to drink pond/lake water, having limited matches or lighter fuel. The problem is that people can avoid entering towns entirely and sustain yourself, rather than a problem with the ability to hunt. If people had to visit towns for survival supplies every now and then, then the problem wouldn't be there. Apologies for putting it across poorly in my initial post. Please read my latter posts in this thread for further clarification.

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/60384-my-thoughts-after-2-months-of-play/#entry577133

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/60384-my-thoughts-after-2-months-of-play/#entry577226

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/60384-my-thoughts-after-2-months-of-play/#entry577344

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I have a load more points, but I don't really want to overfill my first post, as it's already past the point of TL;DR for a lot of people. But just give me your thoughts on these matters, and I'll add more if people are up for discussing things.

Edited August 5, 2012 by Trickster

[deedz 6]

tldr

[Buffjesus 357]

1) duping is fucking the game hard. all you need is a ghillie or camo clothing and you can dupe your entire character an unlimited amount of times. alpha so these problems are to be expected; even though i heard these duping problems are right in the game engine, so they wont be the easiest things to fix (and rocket cant even do anything about it directly?).

2) this is an arma 2 map, not DayZ. if youve seen the other maps in the game youd know that chenarus is the best by far.

3) hell no, if people want to be nomads off by themselves let them

Edited August 5, 2012 by Buffjesus

[disorder 344]

For number 2, its possible to set up a trigger in code and in the editor that basically checks to see if a player is outside a certain zone and then moves them. The zone can be stretched around the playable part of the map. Sadly hackers might still get around it, but legit players should have a hard time storing stuff outside of it.

Edited August 5, 2012 by disorder

[unconsciousobjector 69]

Good points.

Point #1, I agree. ScriptShits have made it entirely too easy to get great gear.

Point #2, agree again. An Island would force players inland and greatly increase the chance of encountering others, not to mention significantly increase the vehicle turnover rate.

Point #3, Refer to my comments on point #2. The problem isn't the hunting and pond water, it's the "ring of safety" that surrounds the map and keeps mountain men (and women) away from the fray. An Island would greatly increase your chance of encountering another player while "living off the land.

[Trickster (DayZ) 10]

I'm not questioning the quality of Chernarus as an Arma 2 map. It's a great map, it's just that 2km wide rolling hill and forest area that goes around the North and West sides of the map that really pull people out of actually playing within the map itself. If all that got cut out, and the boundary pulled in, it'd make a world of difference.

As for nomads, there are part-way solutions. If matches were limited, and you need say, water purification tablets to drink lake/pond water, then people can go into town less frequently if they wish, but at least they have to go in every now and then. The fact is, a player who avoids contact with any other players isn't really playing. Whether you work with people, hunt them, help them or just try and hide from them, then that's up to you, but human nature is to take the easy option in games. People often don't want to be given an easy choice that makes the game easier but less fun, but you simply can't expect people to put themselves at a disadvantage. If people can avoid towns and stay alive, then they will. But if they knew everyone had to go into towns at some point, then they would probably get a lot more enjoyment out of the game. But yeah, as the post above says, it may not be as much of an issue on an Island. I guess it would need to be played out first, to see if the problem is still there.

For number 2, its possible to set up a trigger in code and in the editor that basically checks to see if a player is outside a certain zone and then moves them. The zone can be stretched around the playable part of the map. Sadly hackers might still get around it, but legit players should have a hard time storing stuff outside of it.

I'd love to see this tried out. It's all very well have 225km of game area, but the fact is, a good chunk of that isn't contributing to the game at all.

Edited August 5, 2012 by Trickster

[KennyNZ 121]

1/ Agreed.

2/ They've said they will probably move DayZ to a new map when it goes standalone or ArmA 3.

3/ Disagree

[JAMESWOODS2012 0]

About your 3rd point I don't agree in fact I believe there should be more animals in the woods like Predators that can kill you. If your going to have animals in the woods then add the ones that can kill you. Content is really what this game needs. More Cars Vans Trucks and Boats. More Zombies, by skill and by type. How about some Boss Zombies? Like maybe a time in the night where a big ass super zombie would spawn. something that doesn't die easyly and no not god zilla big. sharks in the water as well. npc bandits should be added. MORE Content is key, A city like electro should have like 30+ Cars ect. maybe not all full of gas and in best shape but cars should be there. if there was more cars out there no one would care to hord them all up.

[johnnyglitter 13]

I think that you have made up a quite nice list of points there, and would like to give my input on them.

1. I do agree with you, but the reason why there is som much high end gear, is because tents and vehicles can be used to dupe items. This is likely to be fixed before the game is released, but i also think that it should be much harder to raid the high end gear places. NWAF is pretty ok, considering that you almost always bumps into another survivor while beeing there, but crashed helis are for most of the time in totally remote places, and it's pretty easy to raid them.

2. Chernarus is a big map, but i have heard that Arma 3:s map is even bigger, and is an island. I have heard rumors of a standalone DayZ, but if it's not, your whish will be fullfilled.

I would personally see a really big city on the map. Having a really big city with maybe a military facility(government building) deep within the city with unique high quality gear, would provoke survivors to raid the city.

3. Partly see 2. about the city, if the endgame gear is in a crowded place, you will get endgame action. Removing the survival gear as the knife and water bottles is just weird in a survival game.

I do have another proposal for more action, and that is a horde of infected that is wandering around the map (inspired from the Walking Dead). Maybe two or three of this horde with around 50 infecteds that wander the map straight through cities and woods.

[Trickster (DayZ) 10]

I always liked the idea of a wandering herd, again, inspired by Walking Dead. And yeah, upon looking at the Arma3 map, it could be pretty ideal for the game. It's really just about making sure that most of the map is usable for actual gameplay, rather than a storage facility.

As for survival gear, like I said, there can be ways around it. We have unlimited matches right now, and that could always be changed to limited, or a lighter that needs fuel. Your hatchet could get blunted and need replacement over time, and water purification tablets could be required for any water not coming out of a spring. Forcing meat to be cooked for a time period would mean you have the risk of a 2-3 minute fire, thus adding disadvantages to this style of play. There are really a wealth of solutions. I could have made this point better in my initial post, but my main point is that people should be encouraged to go into areas where they may meet other players, and the gathering of supplies which can't be found in woods/fields is essential to this. There is the other hand as well, where the localised microphone chat could have the distance increased, or volume settings, so you don't HAVE to fight in towns, you can contact people much easier, if you want to take that risk. Human interaction is the best aspect of DayZ, and we should only encourage more of that.

We are however, getting into more ambitious ideas here, and a lot of the above just couldn't be done until DayZ became a standalone game, due to the fundamental engine changes it would require, none of which are possible sadly.

Edited August 5, 2012 by Trickster

[sostronk 334]

Sounds like you just want this game to be fast paced with really short lifespans, shorter than the 49 minute average that is at present.

[Strategos (DayZ) 190]

Nice to see a reasonable post for a change.

1: I agree 100% certainly the biggest issue right now. I made a post recently asking for a reset just to get things back to normal for a little bit. http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/55238-dear-rocket-reset-please/

2: This is linked to 3.

3: I dont think this is the solution. I think the wilderness survival aspect is great and should be encouraged. The solution to this imho lies in Ammo and gear. Without duping, and unlimited ammo bug, people will have to go into towns etc for ammo, fuel, necessities like that. I also believe ammo and high end gear shouls be rarer all round, to make it a scrabble for survival. This goes for military gear, blood bags, survival gear the lot. Maybe gear degradation and repair. Tents also need to have their originally intended life span after you die and not last forever.

This stuff might also pull the focus away from PvP a bit (i like pvp btw) and force people to "just survive" a bit more.

In my suggestions list below there are also some points about making the wilderness aspect of the game a bit more involved to make hunting harder etc.

Edited August 5, 2012 by Strategos

[Distance 29]

Nice topic :) agree on all except number 3. if people wanna live alone and live the booring life let them :)

when it comes to the items i agree there is to much of the good shit right now, but wont a total reset every 4th week kind of make it pointless in filling up your base with items and stuff?

when it comes to the debug part, i would like a timer that resets all veichles back to their original spawn point after beeing in debug area for more than 30min, as of now there is a timer like that. but its set to 24 hours.

Great thoughts by the way :) keep em coming :) hope rocket reads this topic.

[Trickster (DayZ) 10]

Nice topic :) agree on all except number 3. if people wanna live alone and live the booring life let them :)

I think this is one of the major issues though. If people have the choice, they will. Why risk their characters if they don't have to? People often KNOW that it isn't as fun as going into a town, but why take the risk if others don't have to. Sometimes, it's really liberating to have that choice removed, to know that you have to take that risk. It allows people to actually play the game, rather than just maintain their character.

[ApriL 28]

Really interesting read and I agree with you points apart from taking hunting out of the game.There are no hospitals in land and if you are running low on supplies as well as being far from the coast, hunting is the only way to regain blood relatively quickly.

[Trickster (DayZ) 10]

I've added some clarification regarding the hunting aspect of my post into the first post. Apologies for putting the point across badly. It should be a bit clearer now with what I'm trying to get at.

[STimroth 7]

I'll give you my two cents after playing this for two weeks.

I think in general the game needs a direction, new players get into surviving, finding gear, not getting shot. That holds your attention for a day or two till you get the mechanics of the game figure out. Then after you find gear you start worry more about losing it. Atleast, some players might have this view. So then you get the players your talking about that hide out in the forest. I agree that granted they are safer but they aren't really doing anything, and then you lose intrest.

As I read in someone's post eventually you get bored and start hunting people if you are so inclined. Which is something else I don't care for in this game, no matter what you are wearing, carrying, if your naked on the beach, if you see someone they will shoot you if they can. I don't disagree that in this sistuation people probably would be doing that, but it kills alot of gameplay right off the bat cuase no one gives anyone a sec to do anything but die. Bandits, I didn't get to play when they had the bandit suit, but I feel that now no one knows who bandits are and that contributes to more of the parnoid shoot first that is going on. Enough on that.

Back to playing the game, so in my case I found alot of camps with all the gear in them. I have never seen a gps,nvg,or rangefinder drop anywhere, I only found them in the tents. I just recently found a bipson on a helo crash. Most of the gear I found was in hidden tents around the west and north edges.

Availability of gear, well I can tell you with just a bit of expermenting you can figure out the tent mechanics. It is a form of duping, but from what I can see it is in the game and not a hack, its just the way the tents are setup. They take record of what is saved in them at any given time, and if never saved again keep that record after restarts even if the items have been removed. And recently, if you save new stuff in them, within the limits of the tent, you can have those new items dupe as well. Yes I do believe if this mechanic was fixed and the gear you had on you and in the tent were just one set, then yeah maybe we wouldn't have so much bravado running around cuase they would know they can't get another set so easily.

I personally I don't like to go to town, cuase no matter what speck town I pick I always find someone. But I do agree that finding things to bring people into town would create more interaction. Though I don't think the interaction has to allways be killing each other. I wasn't playing when this game first started, but if you notice on the left side as you enter the game, your on the blue team, like everyone else. the enemy was suppose to be the Zombies. Granted npc bandits and player bandits is a great dynamic, but i think the removal of their identity didn't help.

In regards to more stuff to do, I think if we were able to setup bases with reasonable defenses that players could work together to maintain that would help with post beginner objectives. You can't really do that now cuase if no one is there, anything you setup is destroyed, raided, and driven off. Hence the reason everyone hordes stuff in the less traveled areas. When it comes to ammo, most of the high end stuff only has like three or four clips. if you couldn't dupe it it would be rarer. Most of the low end stuff, like the enfield, yeah it has ammo everywhere, but do you really want to fire that thing off all the time? The 1911 is still my favored gun, though it seems to have lost some of it kick lately. The versatility of the ammo with the .45 makes it a great choice to defend against zombies. Everything else like I said early I don't see drop at all or very little.

Hunting, I see post poping up about this as I type, the hunting needs to stay, Its the only way I can repenlish my blood when none of my buddies are on. I do think aggressive animals would mix it up a bit, a grizzly bear would have a large sum of meat on it but also might kill you while you try to kill it. As others said you can't always get to a hospital. Hunting is a good aspect, just needs some spice added to it.

I said at the begining this game needs direction and I strayed myself just talking here, Mainly I see it like this, you survive off the beach, you get your supplies, you get some stuff saved up in tents, its duping so you get brave, you go out and start looking for whatever, in my case a vehicle. Which usually ends up in me having to go to town to get the parts. I get killed and the process starts over. I actually like the starting over part, getting the stuff to make it, and then moving in land is exciting. I think this game fails after that, your either a bandit that hunts people, or you gather things eventually losing them to either a player, a hacker, or a server wipe. Maybe most of you like shooting and dying and repeating the process but I would like to get back to more killing zombies and surviving. Most of us got drawn to this game because of the zombie survival aspect ,atleast I would think so, I feel like i'm surviving a redneck rampage.

Well gentlemen and ladies, I written a book that will probably be laugh at, and ripped apart. I have trouble getting my thought in uniform, but I hope I made some sense. Tear away.

[LumberBack 43]

so to sum it up, you want the game to be even more about deathmatch....

[Strategos (DayZ) 190]

We are getting closer to the same page I think But hunting etc isn't going anywhere and shouldn't it should just be more realistic. Rocket loves the survival aspects of the game , inspired as it is by his own survival training in the army.

Your premise is good though , as a sandbox game it's all about creating the right pressures on the players but still giving them freedom. As you rightly point out No 1 is the major problem right now. We can't even assess the situation properly until this is fixed.

I like the limited matches idea. Add it to the various options I posted.

I don't think the map is perfect but you need wilderness to allow people to make camps. When i play i almost exclusively hunt player camps and it is a great part of the game I would hate to see removed. The further away you make the camp the more of a penalty you pay in travel times so most people tend to make them in places that arn't that close. Had some brilliant encounters doing this. The tension is fantastic. You may think the map is to big but it is already easy to find camps.

[YethHound 5]

I agree with your second point, after spending 4weeks in the game i have enjoyed it alot.

the biggest gripe for me atm is not seeing vehicles not just at spawn points but anywhere, i have not seen a single travelling vehicle once in my alpha play, only a friendly hacker who picked me up and gave me everything(character died)

i have all this gear and would like to assault a group who are out and about with a vehicle, maybe i can steal the car? but like i said i haven`t seen one.

the chance to get about faster with a car would be fun i guess but sadly hasn`t happened yet. i have looked through the forests up north but it does take a lifetime to get about on foot.

the Arma3 map could be exactly what is needed

Peace

[Strategos (DayZ) 190]

"I agree that granted they are safer but they aren't really doing anything, and then you lose intrest."

Well this isn't true I'm an "end game" player and I very rarely get bored. Hunting player camps, helping out my mates, making my own camp, vehicle hunting and trying to track down that damn helicopter all keep me very occupied. The game is what you make of it. Which obviously isn't everyone's cup of tea. I'm not saying there shouldn't be more content but there are many possibilities to try to make the game entertaining.

[nev2k 16]

About your 3rd point I don't agree in fact I believe there should be more animals in the woods like Predators that can kill you. If your going to have animals in the woods then add the ones that can kill you. Content is really what this game needs. More Cars Vans Trucks and Boats. More Zombies, by skill and by type. How about some Boss Zombies? Like maybe a time in the night where a big ass super zombie would spawn. something that doesn't die easyly and no not god zilla big. sharks in the water as well. npc bandits should be added. MORE Content is key, A city like electro should have like 30+ Cars ect. maybe not all full of gas and in best shape but cars should be there. if there was more cars out there no one would care to hord them all up.

I have to disagree with you, as i think, the idea of cars being high valuable is good.

zombies sort by skill and type, not that good as well, because then high gear players would chill around the cost, so they don't have to handle more dangerous zombies, but i heard that rocket want's military zombies to take more shoots.

but to the op:

i agree to the first point, but think that wiping the databse, isn't that good, as it would create a mass run on the costs afterwards.

to the second point i'd also agree, but on the other hand, there should be options to protect a camp, when not loged in, like locking the tents and cars, so it requires anyone about 3 mins to get trough the lock. once started you should be unconsious for the time it takes to remove the lock, which brings it at a high risk to remove the lock.

the tent duplication problem should be fixed asap, for instance a force autosave all vehicle's/ tents before shutting down a server.

Another idea on looting, would be, that the chance for high military loot decreases with less player's at the server, so no one can go on an empty server, loot the arifield and stary frequently, without the danger of facing players.

to the 3rd point, i'd partly agree, as it's way more easy to hunt some animals then taking blood bags...

this could be reduced, by making the spawn rates for animals less high, as well as i think you should regen health over time, when you're not hungry but regaining health should increase the hunger you get, and then the hunger should be dynamic, so eating beans just gives you 75% of hunger back, while the meat gives you back 100%.

you could force people to drink more frequently, so they have to get to water places regulary, which would bind them more to the center map.

being hungry and thirsty should effect the aiming ability and the moving speed, so even being a hunter requires you to be more active.

[Sando 9]

I agree about a reset, or a semi-reset (everything but what's on your character). Not sure how this can be done with the server infrastructure and forcing community servers to reset at a certain point?

I agree with the ability to live off the land 100% once you've got canteens/knife/matches/hatchet is a bit silly. I think removing the ability would be too much, but I think forcing people to replace those things reasonably often would be good as well. I think there's a middle ground there, but the change to charges on those things needs to be made and made high, then tweaked.

[Grim7 6]

I think the game needs some direction and content, too. And no, it does not need to become more like a typical game with set objectives or achievements. But as it is, the novelty wears off very quickly, and the zombies become merely a nuisance, a backdrop. You don't need assault rifles, machine guns, or military-grade high-powered sniper rifles to fight these kind of zombies. That all feeds into senseless, pointless PVP, an itch that can be better scratched in other games. It ends up driving away those who come for the authentic survival horror zombie experience.

Granted, it's alpha. We need to see what new updates and eventually standalone will bring. But this is definitely a problem that needs to be addressed going forward. Those who don't think it's a problem will either leave the game after a month or two, tops, or they'll find themselves alone in empty servers.

[STimroth 7]

I figured you would say the game is what you make of it. But after chasing down all the enemy tents on the server and cars. I don't even try for that damn helicopter. Making tents, helping mates. What else is there to do? Shoot people seems to be th popular answer. Granted as you say your cup of tea. Perhaps thats all some poeple want outta of a game, killing each other. I don't mind that so much, but it would be nice to do things in around that happening. Not to jump away from the orignal poster. I figure were discussing here, might as well broaden the subject. Also I do get bored eventually running around the countryside doing not much, but chasing down the next drink, food, or blood source. I have had a few fair fights, and those were great. But lately I get the dispearing dead man, or the overly hacked player. So even if I was inclined to pvp more, I know most of the time its going to be unfair one way or another.

I tell ya, I think alot of my trouble is I played games before they were online, you worked your way up to better items, you unlocked things, you saw special events, and you saw a conclusion to your efforts. Now days its just the thrill of the kill and the how you can ruin the other guys experience. I guess I'm just an old school player from a diffrent era. anyway, good discussion, better then alot of posts, keep it going.

edit to the above: No I don't want objectives, or a layed out plan, just more avenues of gameplay to explore. sandbox is great.

Edited August 5, 2012 by STimroth