Incentive system for team play (discussion and possible ideas)

[css_god@yahoo.com 543]

There are players complaining about killing, players complaining about people wanting the bandit PvP playstyle nerfed, and generally people just fighting left and right on both sides with no solution in sight.

It seems as of right now and up to this point everyone is fighting about leaving it how it is or nerfing it.

What if there were a better way which could appease both sides? I have seen no one even mention this or approach it from this angle and it's honestly kind of surprising.

What if there were incentives which encouraged people to work together instead of against each other? You could play solo just like now and would not be at any kind of disadvantage, the choice is up to you but how or what could be implemented that would make people want to work with each other?

I don't actually have a clue and figured this thread would be a good starting point for a possible answer, let's see what you guys think could work to accomplish this.

What could bring people together and not punish people who do not want to play with others?

[rukqoa 4]

Fix direct chat.

[feriluce 2]

Isn't direct chat fixed in the beta patch?

Anyway, as I've suggested before, some sort of specialization system would help with cohesion, because people would need to rely on eachother. This would obviously also mean that bandits would want to group together in larger groups, and you would actually have some interesting scenarios where groups of bandits raid survivor camps etc.

[css_god@yahoo.com 543]

What I was thinking is something along these lines....

What generally unites two enemies? A common enemy, as of right now it's extremely easy to survive in this world when other players are taken out of the equation, in fact you could survive indefinitely.

Now if an enemy in the game is introduced which is an extreme threat and makes the world hard to survive in when other players are taken out of the equation, what happens when they are added back to it?

People bind together as it's easier to destroy a common enemy as a group rather than as a singular entity.

Just an idea but it makes you think....

[eegore 23]

I think group incentives need to be environmentally managed.

No magic stat increases etc. Theres a thread about an electric grid and that could be a group project.

[Lingwo 0]

It already kind of has an incentive in game. If you band together and work together loot places in groups look out for each other, you're more likely to survive, plus have fun doing so. Solo play is great if you want to stay alive for long periods of time but can get quite lonely and boring at times.

I like the idea of working together but i don't think that is what the game is about. It is about surviving. If you choose to work with someone to do that then so be it. If you don't then that is your choice. Giving someone an obvious choice as in "work together with X survivors to get X reward" kind of removes some of the freedom the game has and will almost force users to work together.

On the other hand if they gave incentives for both (solo and teamwork) then the player would have choice again.

[liquidje 38]

What I was thinking is something along these lines....

What generally unites two enemies? A common enemy' date=' as of right now it's extremely easy to survive in this world when other players are taken out of the equation, in fact you could survive indefinitely.

Now if an enemy in the game is introduced which is an extreme threat and makes the world hard to survive in when other players are taken out of the equation, what happens when they are added back to it?

People bind together as it's easier to destroy a common enemy as a group rather than as a singular entity.

Just an idea but it makes you think....

[/quote']

The problem is that something like introducing an "extreme threat" means you change the core game. Also, this is not an incentive or anything, it is a gamechanger.

The game is simple as it is:

1. Get loot

2. dodge or kill zombies

3. deal with other players as you see fit (teaming, killing, backstabbing, and everything in between)

4. SURVIVE!

Introducing such an element changes the above 4 points very much!

[ShortsNL (DayZ) 0]

Nya's reasoning is correct. If you want less players killing each other, add more zombies to the game so players are forced to work together more.

More zombies = more risks taken when shots are fired = less PvP.

Less zombies = less risks taken when shots are fired as well as the player threat becoming relatively bigger to your own survival = more PvP.

It's simple as that.

[css_god@yahoo.com 543]

It already kind of has an incentive in game. If you band together and work together loot places in groups look out for each other' date=' you're more likely to survive, plus have fun doing so. Solo play is great if you want to stay alive for long periods of time but can get quite lonely and boring at times.

I like the idea of working together but i don't think that is what the game is about. It is about surviving. If you choose to work with someone to do that then so be it. If you don't then that is your choice. Giving someone an obvious choice as in "work together with X survivors to get X reward" kind of removes some of the freedom the game has and will almost force users to work together.

On the other hand if they gave incentives for both (solo and teamwork) then the player would have choice again.

[/quote']For me the problem I am seeing is people are working together against each other instead of together against a common enemy.

The zombies in this game are not a threat of really any kind, they are actually an afterthought and the main focus is PvP. But what if they became the main focus, a very real and serious threat which if you were alone and got caught with your pants down your chances of survival are considerably diminished.

What I see as needing to happen is make the PvP the afterthought and secondary to the zombies themselves. PvP can still happen as it does now but it makes more sense to be with others against the real threat in the game being the zombies instead of the secondary player threat.

[eegore 23]

I think group incentives need to be environmentally managed.

No magic stat increases etc. Theres a thread about an electric grid and that could be a group project.

[mrcheapy 1]

Add a medic bag which allows players to revive someone

[qbert 4]

It already kind of has an incentive in game. If you band together and work together loot places in groups look out for each other' date=' you're more likely to survive, plus have fun doing so. Solo play is great if you want to stay alive for long periods of time but can get quite lonely and boring at times.

I like the idea of working together but i don't think that is what the game is about. It is about surviving. If you choose to work with someone to do that then so be it. If you don't then that is your choice. Giving someone an obvious choice as in "work together with X survivors to get X reward" kind of removes some of the freedom the game has and will almost force users to work together.

On the other hand if they gave incentives for both (solo and teamwork) then the player would have choice again.

[/quote']For me the problem I am seeing is people are working together against each other instead of together against a common enemy.

The zombies in this game are not a threat of really any kind, they are actually an afterthought and the main focus is PvP. But what if they became the main focus, a very real and serious threat which if you were alone and got caught with your pants down your chances of survival are considerably diminished.

What I see as needing to happen is make the PvP the afterthought and secondary to the zombies themselves. PvP can still happen as it does now but it makes more sense to be with others against the real threat in the game being the zombies instead of the secondary player threat.

I agree %100 with this, maybe increasing the zombie numbers would do this? Like a drastic increase, 3000 on map at a time or something crazy.

[css_god@yahoo.com 543]

I agree %100 with this' date=' maybe increasing the zombie numbers would do this? Like a drastic increase, 3000 on map at a time or something crazy.

[/quote']More of them, faster, stronger, more deadly and have them in many more places. Being that the map is about 90% woods it would not be a bad idea to somehow code in traveling hordes of them going through the forests.

People are way too comfortable in this game world as it sits right now and that is forcing people to find enjoyment in just killing other people rather than focusing on what is going on in the world around them which should always be trying to kill them.

Want people to work together and be scared to go out into the world? Throw this kind of in game reality in their face.

PvP will be the least of anyone's concerns.

[reasand83@gmail.com 2]

I agree %100 with this' date=' maybe increasing the zombie numbers would do this? Like a drastic increase, 3000 on map at a time or something crazy.

[/quote']More of them, faster, stronger, more deadly and have them in many more places. Being that the map is about 90% woods it would not be a bad idea to somehow code in traveling hordes of them going through the forests.

People are way too comfortable in this game world as it sits right now and that is forcing people to find enjoyment in just killing other people rather than focusing on what is going on in the world around them which should always be trying to kill them.

Want people to work together and be scared to go out into the world? Throw this kind of in game reality in their face.

-snip-

PvP will be the least of anyone's concerns.

I agree with that.

We need Zombies in the woods and hordes of them moving around.

EDIT: Just imagine the rivers of tears if Rocket added that silently in one of the updates :D

[StrayWolf 1]

Its simple. At the present time, the spawn system is placing everybody in the same area. All the bandits have to do is stick around the same areas in order to find prey.

So, first fix - make the spawn points map-wide, not just around the shoreline.

Second, make the loot random so that people can't just say 'oh, AKs spawn over there'. I'd say make ammo spawns even rarer so that people can't horde tons of ammo and then go Ramboner all over the place.

I think the wound/healing process should make PvP that much more risky - bullet wounds should wipe out 2/3 of your blood...or cause blood lose at a much faster rate than getting hit/bit by a zed. Bullet wounds are CRITICAL so it will require CRITICAL care...not just some magic bandage... So, that means that GROUPED players with the APPROPRIATE gear will become paramount.

Blood packs and the likes should be RARE items as well...not automagically spawn in hospitals.

The other issue that needs to be addressed - and to somehow excise the idiotic ongoing mentality - is that this is NOT a FPS shooter. This is a zombie apocalypse SURVIVAL game. The morons that are just going balls out shooting every single living person need to either get the fuck out or need to be severely penalized. Again...make PvP gun battles extremely risky as they would be in RL. If this game is trying to simulate RL...then make it TOUGH.

In order to penalize anybody that gets into a gun battle or starts one...and they log out...they DIE. Period. End of story.

[President Rex 0]

Add a medic bag which allows players to revive someone

This is one of my core recommendations for improving co-operation. Much like the blood bag, but more useful for keeping a group together, since the only use it has is if you trust your team mate more than you want his stuff. Give a 60-90 second window after someone's blood reaches 0 where a teammate can still resuscitate them (to ridiculously low blood levels).

Make it a portable defibrillator that takes a random time between 5 and 20 seconds to revive someone (to help prevent mid-battle resucitation).

And for all the people grouping up for PVP and complaining about how a change doesn't help them: this change helps anyone sticking with a group (of people they trust enough to keep alive).

Making more zombies would be awesome, but probably won't affect the PVP situation. Every time I've gotten shot it has been someone camping in a barn or chasing after me when I spawn. All the complaining I hear about is people getting sniped in Cherno or Elektro (hurr, don't stand around in big cities and all).

...but none of those 3 core death areas will be changed by adding more zombies.

[Chicago Ted 3]

The incentive for team play is already there. Your mates can cover you, hold more loot, patch you up, have extra pairs of eyes, can return fire and knock out the bandit scum, then cover your corpse until you get back/assemble new kit for you while you run your ass from the coast. And people may be somewhat hesitant to attack a large group.

[dead ben 0]

There is a built in incentive for teamwork. You survive longer. This is irregardless of whether you are facing players or zombies. That is more than enough incentive. Nothing else is needed.

[BigMorgan (DayZ) 3]

The rewards for teamwork in this game are plentiful and extremely powerful. Chicago Ted has a great summary of them.

So now imagine yourself spawning on the beach and the group of 3 pk's have access to the revive bag suggested here, or have to shoot you only once to reliably kill you as mentioned above. Nothing is solved.

The problem isn't one of teamwork, it's one of trust. This mod needs to be played in a group you already know. Playing solo only works if you're willing to use the wilderness and nighttime to your advantage and abandon all hope of teaming up with randoms.

[QuickSkope 1]

The incentive for working as a group is that youre a group : /. There should be no "We neez freh roflcawpters cuz were trustin".

If you has a GROUP of some sort (Lists members, kinda like red dead redemption) and there were some perks between members Vision, and such like FF off (Very iffy) Those might suffice.

If you give physical bonuses, 8 friends are gonna go in vent together and rape an entire server.

[septuscap 42]

The rewards for teamwork in this game are plentiful and extremely powerful. Chicago Ted has a great summary of them.

So now imagine yourself spawning on the beach and the group of 3 pk's have access to the revive bag suggested here' date=' or have to shoot you only once to reliably kill you as mentioned above. Nothing is solved.

The problem isn't one of teamwork, it's one of trust. This mod needs to be played in a group you already know. Playing solo only works if you're willing to use the wilderness and nighttime to your advantage and abandon all hope of teaming up with randoms.

[/quote']

The rewards for teamwork ARE there, but there is no way in hell I would ever team up with anyone outside of my pre-made group of friends I always game with. That leads to pretty one dimensional player interaction.

[BigMorgan (DayZ) 3]

The rewards for teamwork ARE there' date=' but there is no way in hell I would ever team up with anyone outside of my pre-made group of friends I always game with. That leads to pretty one dimensional player interaction.

[/quote']

Maybe so, but it doesn't mean that DayZ is broken or needs to be altered so you and others can make new friends.

We (TGW) don't let strangers in our Minecraft server. We're not really looking for people to join up with our group in DayZ, either. But when RO2 came out we added several new members, and I expect the same with Iron Front: Lib.

Some games lend themselves well to building new friendships, and some don't.

[-=Grunt=- (DayZ) 0]

Add AI soldier "clean up crews" with guns or choppers that patrol around killing anything on sight. ('Cause it's a contaminated infection zone) The clean up crew drop random loot when killed. (Like zombies, their gear will be deleted n replaced by the random loot upon death)

Include ASR AI mod in.

Clean up crews would involve a 12 man squad of Russian soldiers and randomly patrol areas such as forests and towns up north, killing anything on sight. Heavily armed with assault rifles, grenade launchers and light machineguns. (Since Russia is just north of Chernarus in the story mode, make em wear gas masks too)

Unskilled solo players venturing up north would cower at the sight of them or possibly die if he gets spotted. Problem solved, incentive to team up due to the threat up north. Oh and it would give assault and sniper rifles more use other than for killing other players.

Zombies aren't a threat at all at the moment, even for a solo player. Bullets are.

Probably not gonna happen. But I'd like it if there was something of a threat that is dangerous enough for people to team up on.

[lucas78 0]

This is quite a stimulating discussion: among other things, I think it also comes down to how much "game" do you want to add to the experience, and in what measure you want to keep that "social experiment" appeal, no holds barred.

With a premise like this mod, teamwork feeds on itself, of course. Fundamentally, it's about creating your own little stories, be it of lone, hopeless and random exploration and survival, forming up zombie killing parties or commit treachery on other fellow humans.

So how to preserve this feeling, and at the same time create sub-systems that have an impact on the gameplay?

[deadbolt (DayZ) 10]

Add AI soldier "clean up crews" with guns or choppers that patrol around killing anything on sight. ('Cause it's a contaminated infection zone) The clean up crew drop random loot when killed. (Like zombies' date=' their gear will be deleted n replaced by the random loot upon death)

Include ASR AI mod in.

Clean up crews would involve a 12 man squad of Russian soldiers and randomly patrol areas such as forests and towns up north, killing anything on sight. Heavily armed with assault rifles, grenade launchers and light machineguns. (Since Russia is just north of Chernarus in the story mode, make em wear gas masks too)

Unskilled solo players venturing up north would cower at the sight of them or possibly die if he gets spotted. Problem solved, incentive to team up due to the threat up north. Oh and it would give assault and sniper rifles more use other than for killing other players.

Zombies aren't a threat at all at the moment, even for a solo player. Bullets are.

Probably not gonna happen. But I'd like it if there was something of a threat that is dangerous enough for people to team up on.

[/quote']

last time rocket added lots of zombies a bunch of people cried because it was too hard, so he ended up lowering the amount, i imagine the same thing would happen here