The "I know that guy" visual system

[Felix (DayZ) 21]

Oktyabr, I can understand your points about recognizing somebody already identified in the past.

I don't have any issues with the recognition system you posted above, the actual mechanics sound like something that would fit well. I'd even like using a system like that, though there's still points of concern for me.

1) If the recognition system were to be in, I'd still want names kept out of it without some sort of formal introduction mechanic like what I mentioned above. This would put your system into 2 tiers.

First stage is recognition that you've met the person before, that would be as you've outlined.

Second stage is naming. Because you've scoped in on a person in the past shouldn't give you their name. You can recognize the person you've spotted in the past, but if they didn't give you their name, you shouldn't be able to see it now.

2) Profiles, characters, GUID and looks.

Players can change how they look at a whim, they can also change their name. How would this fit in with the recognition system?

If clothing and customization is going to enter at some point, how is that going to affect recognition? If you met a guy as a survivor skin for example, do you still recognize him later as a bandit skin or something else obscuring the face?

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I'm sticking with the voluntary method of name association because I personally dislike somebody scanning and getting my name for free. I also believe that having a function to give out your name to others you physically meet could be a great addition to the social mechanics of DayZ.

Interacting with other players and getting names becomes so much more important so that you can determine whether that person you see is a bandit you ran into a couple days back or that friendly guy that helped you out and gave you his name.

[TeaLeaf 5]

This is quite interesting. A lot of design issues pop up to mind' date=' but there could be something here. The biggest problem is representing it. UI etc... breaks the immersion. So its very hard to model this mechanic.

[/quote']

I think this is one of those cases where UI is pretty much the only option unless you feel like modding a full facial customisation system into the game.

[oktyabr 53]

First stage is recognition that you've met the person before' date=' that would be as you've outlined.

Second stage is naming. Because you've scoped in on a person in the past shouldn't give you their name. You can recognize the person you've spotted in the past, but if they didn't give you their name, you shouldn't be able to see it now.

2) Profiles, characters, GUID and looks.

Players can change how they look at a whim, they can also change their name. How would this fit in with the recognition system?

If clothing and customization is going to enter at some point, how is that going to affect recognition? If you met a guy as a survivor skin for example, do you still recognize him later as a bandit skin or something else obscuring the face?

[/quote']

I didn't say it was the perfect solution and frankly I don't think there are any. ;)

I wasn't sure how to "recognize" a player *without* using the name tag but maybe this would work:

I used to play a text only MUD that whenever you met another player you were given a very brief, generic description such as "tall man in a grey cloak". If you bothered to "look" at the person for an extra amount of time you got more information such as "tall, mature male elf with a long scar on his cheek in a grey cloak with buckskin boots and an elaborately bejeweled short sword at his belt". Whether you communicated with the individual or not you could choose to "remember" them any way you like... the elf says his name is "PorkpieHat" (and could lie about it as well) you could remember him as such or "scarred up elf" or whatever you wanted to change it to. Further meetings would present you with what you chose to remember.

While it would take an extra few bytes on the data base maybe a similar system could be used here? Remember anyone you meet by any key you would like to use. They reveal their name such as "RobertRedford" for example, as you have suggested, fine, that is how you remember them by default. But they also acted in a way that made you nervous so instead you remember them as "Robert-cautious". If the guy immediately killed half your group and ran off into the woods laughing manically you might change it to "SHOOT ME - Robert".

By default the name might be simply "Unknown.", a very important label to have. Even without giving you their name you might later choose to remember them as "guy with broken leg at Elektro" or something.

What you remember them as shows up per range/light as I have suggested?

[taxe117 0]

Good idea. Would increase the game experience and social factor. :)

+1

[Felix (DayZ) 21]

A labeling system with the recognition system would work nicely. That does come back to what sort of interface, but given time we can hammer out something workable there.

I definitely think the lighting/distance is a good modifier for recognition.

One addition to the system would be to tie in the identification with a corpse. Same limitations for labeling above, but being able to study up close either alive/dead should probably have some benefits.

[Publik 404]

Maybe if you know the guy it puts a brightly colored armband/rag on them, but only on your screen.

+1

[_Profile_Shame 37]

Great idea... but it should wear off after a while. You shouldn't be able to remember someone after a long time. And if that person changes their skin' date=' they should be removed from all of those lists. Thus skins become a gameplay element for disguise.

[/quote']

add in a limit to say 20-50 meters, where you can actually see a face, and this would make playing is named servers bearable. Cool idea op, and I like what prometheus suggested

[Gibbonici 9]

This is a great idea.

It would also be cool if the Examine Body thing (or whatever the option is) tied in with it, so if you stumbled across a dead player in the game you could see if it was someone you knew. It's a tiny thing really but it would be a very nice little detail I reckon.

[ivan2294 0]

Seems like a good idea overall, although obviously you would want to limit how far you could see him. Pretty sure I CAN'T recognize someone from a mile away, no matter how long I've known 'em XD

[Mutonizer 78]

This is quite interesting. A lot of design issues pop up to mind' date=' but there could be something here. The biggest problem is representing it. UI etc... breaks the immersion. So its very hard to model this mechanic.

[/quote']

Hmm. Using a light variant either the green lozenge (from firesquad recognition) or the light "dot" like the ones that are shown on NPCs from when you play in easy mode (you know, white dot, red dot, etc).

These are very light UI effects and not too intrusive, unlike showing the full blown name. Could simulate the "I remember that dude from somewhere", without making it too obvious.

Also, to prevent abuse, could require something like having the names of the two people in each othere's "remember him" lists?

For example A and B meet up at some point. A uses the "remember him" and B does the same. From now on, they both recognize each other. However is only A uses it, then it won't work, since B doesn't have A's name in his list.

That way, people can't just add names offline. It's a bit clunky though of course but you get the idea.

[S0N0S 0]

This is quite interesting. A lot of design issues pop up to mind' date=' but there could be something here. The biggest problem is representing it. UI etc... breaks the immersion. So its very hard to model this mechanic.

[/quote']

Handshake. Requires both players to "approve" before engaging and includes chance of infection. Effect would reinforce the feeling of trust between participants. In order to get the advantage of easy recognition, you must trust their word that this person is not infected.

[Razumen 0]

This is quite interesting. A lot of design issues pop up to mind' date=' but there could be something here. The biggest problem is representing it. UI etc... breaks the immersion. So its very hard to model this mechanic.

[/quote']

I think this is one of those cases where UI is pretty much the only option unless you feel like modding a full facial customisation system into the game.

a full custom facial system might be overdoing it, especially at the ranges most conflicts happen at. A greater variety of face skins and the ability to customize your character model would probably add enough visual variety that you'd be able to tell people apart.

Perhaps some of these physical accessories you'd be able to find within the game world?

[Tartantyco 1]

I am perfectly capable of recognizing someone from 100m away and this must be represented in-game. As there most certainly is not enough detail in character faces the names much double as such.

People shouldn't think of their name as their actual name, but rather a representation of their appearance, which is what is being identified, not some magic nameplate that starts hovering around people.

[Razumen 0]

I am perfectly capable of recognizing someone from 100m away and this must be represented in-game. As there most certainly is not enough detail in character faces the names much double as such.

People shouldn't think of their name as their actual name' date=' but rather a representation of their appearance, which is what is being identified, not some magic nameplate that starts hovering around people.

[/quote']

Yes but then you're not recognizing players yourself anymore, the game is doing it for you. Any sort of UI that does this pretty much is magic and doesn't really fit into the nature of the game.

[Luieburger 15]

Great idea. I like it.

[iashford 73]

Agreed on that more player models would be approrpiate. Is it possible for the engine to be able to Choose a head, then a body/outfit seperately, as well as choosing a different colour scheme?

Say there's 2 heads, 2 outfits and 2 colour schemes for said outfits. That'd give you what, 12 different variations (I hate math, makes my head hurt so I'm most likely wrong lol)? Eitherway, it's a good setup to add variety. Now say you have 5 male heads, 5 bodies/outfits, 10 colour scehemes, 5 female heads, 5 bodies/outfits, and 10 colour schemes, you get a lot of variations.

[Zalz Torus 1]

The game isn't about bandits vs survivors, its about us vs them. Pretty much all of human history is about us vs them. So who is "us"? Maybe its just you, a little tribe of one. Or maybe its you and your pals trying to make it cherno alive with only one can of beans between you. "Us" can even be a clan of 100 crack shot snipers guarding the airfields from anyone stupid enough to get close. "Us" then is who you work with, for a common goal, devoid of any moral judgement. "Them" is everyone else, "them" is the unknown or the enemy, damn near the same thing in DayZ.

"Get to the point" you say, ok I did kinda wax poetic there. So, the problem then is I can't tell fuck all who is who, we all look the same. "Oh but skins will fix that, we can customize" you say. No, not even close. DayZ just passed 100k players, there is no way to make that many skins unique enough. No the real problem is we real humans all have unique faces that our society needs to function, but DayZ can't have faces. Instead we need something to replace them, a stand in for what in the real world we use most when dealing with other humans.

Here is my suggestion in short: put badges or icon on the chest of all players

When you get close to another player, 5,10,20?m, you hit a button and get a small range of numbers, 1-10 for example with 1=asshole/red color and 10=BFF/green color, mouse wheel over a number and click. That persons badge changes color/icon to match what you picked. Now anytime that person is facing you and within that certain range, you glance at their badge, as you would their face, and know how you feel about them.

Pros:

Fast and visual. This system needs to work quick to mimic facial recognition, especially during combat

Client side. Ill admit I'm no coder but I would guess all of this info could be stored client side because its how you see others, so I see no reason the server would care.

Immersive...sorta. It can't replace faces, but it isn't another UI element or floating name. You only see the badge when close, on the character and when facing them. All things you need to remember a face.

Cons:

Ugly. Ill be honest, my idea isn't elegant and folks may not want a big ol badge ruining their awesome new skin, plus it could possibly defeat camouflage .

???. Help me out here, suggestions?

[Zalz Torus 1]

One bump then Ill let this die if there is no interest. Also had further ideas which may or may not be too "gamey"

-The ability to "share badges" with others which is basically just telling other people who you personally think is good or bad.

-Add a second badge on the opposite side, allow users to put icons on there for clan use, etc.

-Have the badge reset on death. I personally dont like this idea, but it would keep things very dynamic, better yet

-Have ratings decay back to average over time. This obviously isnt perfect either since you may well hate someone forever.

-Lastly if,IF! the devs want to keep and track humanity, have the badges be affected by that number. A player whom has 20,000 humanity defaults to say 7 or light green, to signify they are probably nice. Players can still choose their own number to assign people, overiding the default. This however still falls into all the trappings that the old bandit system did (of passing judgement) so I am not in love with this idea either.

[Zalz Torus 1]

Dammit, wish Id seen this thread before I made a new one. Ive had a similar idea, although I think I took it a bit further in that you can assign colors to a badge on each person. The idea being you can quickly "remeber" someones face in a game with no faces. Either way something like this needs to be implemented. Link to my thread is in my sig.

[synesthesia 4]

this is a good idea. There are limitations with the deep, deep, uncanny valley arma 2 rests on. Thats why i think the bandit skins, while not working perfectly, kinda helped a little. This might help a lot with the ShootOnSight problem weve been having. Kudos! (is that how you say it?Not really my mother language, this one. )

[TeaLeaf 5]

I'd really like a system a bit like this, but I think it would actually end up having to be a UI element anyway. The whole badge thing would probably be even more immersion breaking than just a popup when you get close with their name in green/red.

[oktyabr 53]

Dammit' date=' wish Id seen this thread before I made a new one. Ive had a similar idea, although I think I took it a bit further in that you can assign colors to a badge on each person. The idea being you can quickly "remeber" someones face in a game with no faces. Either way something like this needs to be implemented. Link to my thread is in my sig.

[/quote']

I merged your thread with this one since it seems to be the most prominent. For future reference it's called the "SEARCH" function at the top of the page ;)

[dunkhan 8]

Can someone explain to me why this thread has 5 pages of "great idea man" and when I suggested this a few days ago I got one single reply that said 'I dont like it' without specifying why.

Sigh, guess I just suck at writing threads that people agree with.

This will make the game work, and failure to implement something like this will prevent it ever working. Recognition is the foundation of all social interaction.

[oktyabr 53]

Can someone explain to me why this thread has 5 pages of "great idea man" and when I suggested this a few days ago I got one single reply that said 'I dont like it' without specifying why.

Sigh' date=' guess I just suck at writing threads that people agree with.

This will make the game work, and failure to implement something like this will prevent it ever working. Recognition is the foundation of all social interaction.

[/quote']

Next time try to follow the guidelines I've posted at the top of this page... the "read me BEFORE posting". The key element in your case being try to keep a new thread on a *single* new, unique idea rather than half a dozen. It makes it easier for others to find (that SEARCH thing up there) and they can pretty much get right to the heart of the matter just by reading the title. Threads that are well thought out and confined to a single, specific suggestion tend to survive better than those that do not.

I don't care if people split up their 6-in-1 super post into separate threads, as long as they are unique and specific.

[TeaLeaf 5]

I think the renaming system would work well, it wouldn't cause too much UI clutter either if you did it right. Just have one hotkey for renaming people, or make it a scroll wheel option when within whatever distance and looking at them. Then this opens a text box, you type the name real quick and hit enter to rename them. It'd take less than 3 seconds.

If you haven't renamed someone yet they should be known as "Unkown AZ012" or any 5 random characters, if they are wearing a mask they should always be "Unkown" and you shouldn't be able to rename them.