Don't add artificial advantages or disadvantages for any playstyle, ever.

[ezdaroth 1]

There's increasing amount of threads suggesting artificial disadvantages for bandits, these include anything from increased spawn times to decreased accuracy and disappearing player loot.

My suggestion is to ignore it all and focus on the things that make DayZ a very unique experience - Realism, immersion, survival, player interaction and the lack of rules and restrictions.

This will be a rather lengthy post and I'm not supplying a TL;DR, but I'd appreciate if you took the time to read it before replying.

DayZ is not a mod for everyone

DayZ gained a lot of popularity very rapidly. Many popular gaming sites such as Rock Paper Shotgun and PC Gamer noted it, which resulted in a surge of players.

Many of these people bought ARMA 2 and Operation Arrowhead just to play this mod, that is only going through early alpha testing. There's now over 90 000 unique players, which is fantastic.

It's inevitable there will also be many players who have wrong expectations and don't have the mentality to enjoy a mod like this. Games tend to be fair, forgiving and packed with action. DayZ is the exact opposite. It's unfair, unforgiving and most of the time nothing happens.

Players get frustrated when they realize the mod isn't what they wanted. Sneaking around a dark forest for an hour and losing days of progression to a bullet from out of nowhere isn't something most people consider fun.

Unsatisfied player is a vocal player

Because the players think they paid for the mod, they want to change the things they don't like rather than just quit playing it. It's only natural, nobody wants to waste money. They become very vocal about it, which results in a ton of suggestion threads.

Bandits are easily considered the most unfair part of the mod. Zombies are predictable and you can only blame yourself for alerting them, but bandits may be anywhere, they might lie to you and you can never be absolutely safe from them. This is why many suggest various artificial disadvantages for bandits, to reduce their numbers and make the mod more fair and predictable.

Bandit skin was a terrible idea, perfect example of what not to do

The bandit skin was an artificial disadvantage to anyone who killed other players. While it successfully reduced murders a little bit, it also took a lot of depth away from player interaction.

Seeing a player in DayZ causes a huge adrenaline rush, at least for me. I can't predict what the player will do when he sees me. I have to make a quick decision to hide, shoot or carefully approach him.

Each decision has natural advantages and disadvantages with a different outcome.

If I approach the player as friendly, he might just kill me, but I can potentially get the most valuable resource in a game, a friend who has my back and is more useful than any piece of gear in the game.

If I shoot him, I might alert zombies and/or his friends who would hunt me down, I might also miss and give him a chance to kill me. However, I could potentially get a bunch of nice gear which increases my chances of survival.

If I hide, I don't take a risk of imminent death, but I might die later, because I didn't have the friend or the the gear with me.

All these advantages and disadvantages are natural, they are based on real-life and make sense. You need to do some risk evaluation and thinking. They are about equally good decisions and you are free to do any of them, but most importantly you can make the right decision without reading some wiki article.

If you throw a bandit skin system in the mix, it has a huge impact on this moment. The game essentially tells you "Hey, that guy has murdered someone. You didn't see it or hear about it, but you magically know it. Better not trust him and oh, killing him adds value to your humanity which is beneficial." It breaks the immersion and simplifies the moment. It also places new players in a disadvantage, because they might have no clue about the skin/humanity system.

I believe the natural advantages and disadvantages are enough to balance the game.

Balance can be tweaked, but it should be done very carefully, should be based on realism and should make sense. Making artificial disadvantages for a certain playstyle hurts the game in general, even if it might be a quick fix to a certain issue.

Please note I'm not trying to say new players don't have the right to suggest changes, I'm a new player who got into the mod via RPS article, but I just wanted to share my concern of the wave of new players suggesting something that would ruin core elements of the mod.

Share your thoughts.

[-AoXo- 24]

I think a more important issue is why shouldn't we all play as a bandits?

I haven't, thus far, but I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that it gets me nowhere to try and trust others when I can (probably) more easily survive much better on my own. I can sneak more easily, I only have to worry about my own ammo and food and water, I can go into a town, grab some food, and go back to the woods for a while, and if I see anyone else then I should kill him in case he tries to kill me.

There's no point to the "survivor" aspect if I can just kill others and take their loot on the coast.

[eegore 23]

Good points OP.

I do notice most the "Coasties" that keep getting killed are new to ARMA and the game mechanics.

This mod is about freedom and fewer rules, which is hard for many to deal with.

Dont want to get murdered? Hide and sneak around.

[ezdaroth 1]

' pid='59143' dateline='1337853453']

I think a more important issue is why shouldn't we all play as a bandits?

I haven't' date=' thus far, but I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that it gets me nowhere to try and trust others when I can (probably) more easily survive much better on my own. I can sneak more easily, I only have to worry about my own ammo and food and water, I can go into a town, grab some food, and go back to the woods for a while, and if I see anyone else then I should kill him in case he tries to kill me.

There's no point to the "survivor" aspect if I can just kill others and take their loot on the coast.

[/quote']

Being in a group greatly increases your chances of survival from zombies, bandits and lack of supplies.

Good enough reason for me to mostly play friendly survivor. Once you have the group, the biggest vulnerability is a backstabbing friendly or encountering a hostile group.

I do notice most the "Coasties" that keep getting killed are new to ARMA and the game mechanics.

This mod is about freedom and fewer rules' date=' which is hard for many to deal with.[/quote']

This is also the reason why "coasties" will eventually be a smaller problem. They will get bored of the DM at the coast and if the game doesn't adapt to them, they will either adapt to the game or leave.

You could argue it's bad for the mod if a lot of the players leave, but in reality niche communities are often way more stable and reliable. Many new games try to appeal for everybody, get a ton of players, but then crash and burn. Games like EVE Online grow steadily for 10 years, because they do what their niche market wants and don't try to appeal for largest possible audience.

[eegore 23]

Yeah when people ask why we arent all bandits the answer is we are.

I dont go deathmatch people, but the bottom line is that most "penalty for killing" threads want Rocket and the games calculators to be a justice system.

That guy shot me..penalize him. Except in an apocalyptic world there is no justice, no one to punish that murderer for you.

[ravenger 10]

I have to say that being with a buddy or a group is the best way to go but i found a great player today that was friendly and has stuck by my side. Its perfect because we are a 2 man force so its easy to sneak around and we have enough firepower if we need it. We have got good weapons huge spacious back packs and tons of food, water, and trust. Id rather have him at my back opposed to being alone with any gun. He is just one of those rare players that you find. I lost my faith with people for a while especially when you have bandits and such trying to kill you just so you never trust anyone again. They do this because you are an easy target to them alone if your not smart. I respect that play style because its immersive. I am just not the type of person to kill people that coldly. I did it a couple times and i felt bad.

They shouldnt ever add an artificial advantage/disadvantage over another player because of the way you play. If your smart and patient you can best the bandits. Sorry COD players but you cant run up and down streets and not expect to get shot or get a snowball effect of zombies.

Honestly this mod is great but this game isnt just zombies. Arma is a great game with lots of other mods. People need to remember that day-z is a bonus to an already awesome game not the game itself. Try out the other mods in arma and im sure youd like them. People need to understand like he said that you bought arma 2 not day-z although i hope they make it a game varient in arma 3 so the game engine fits it better possibly melee?

[FrIEND (DayZ) 9]

Listen to Those Words Of Wisdom! OP Should be handed a Nobel-Prize

[unsobill 0]

That guy shot me..penalize him. Except in an apocalyptic world there is no justice' date=' no one to punish that murderer for you.

[/quote']

...also in an apocalyptic world looting marauders get shot in sight by any armed forces - does that mean if we want to be realistic to have AI military patrols to shoot every marauder (which is 100% of DayZ players) in sight ?

[FrIEND (DayZ) 9]

@unsobill

Military DID Patrol for goons, now theyre all zombies ;D

[n7snk 13]

i do agree with op.

there is no need in military ai.

there is no need in scripted mechanics to punish bandits.

the term of bandits is irrelevant aswell

game need more features and time for players to establish thats it.

when game will get more features i.e. some rp and cti features, more established players and groups of em will actually be "militaty patrool" or "defending some fortress"

more about all of this in this thread.

http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=6152

[JudgeX 1]

LOL, so, to sum up OP's post...

"My playstyle has no disadvantages, don't change anything!"

My reply is...

Your playstyle exists in other games. Go give those a try. Survival games are very rare. 100% random PVP with no consequence for the aggressor is stupid.

[ezdaroth 1]

LOL' date=' so, to sum up OP's post...

"My playstyle has no disadvantages, don't change anything!"

My reply is...

Your playstyle exists in other games. Go give those a try. Survival games are very rare. 100% random PVP with no consequence for the aggressor is stupid.[/quote']

Well, thanks for the bump.

You clearly didn't take the time to read through the post or discussion after it.

I don't play exclusively aggressive or friendly role and believe both have enough advantages and disadvantages as they are. Currently there's more bandits, but main reason are the new players who haven't quite grasped the goal of long-term survival and will eventually adapt better to the game, or leave.

I also said I have nothing against tweaking the balance, but it should be done very carefully, the tweaks should make sense and the mod should remain realistic. People tend to suggest all sorts of artificial restrictions and hindrances that hurt the immersion and freedom in the game.

[Krobar 75]

I got into a conversation with a fine gent on a server the other trying to say "the game is better with assholes" while everyone should know nothing is better with assholes. So I like indications of assholes in DayZ it gives you a better opurtunity to make things better.

[UbiquitousBadGuy 846]

I agree. Penalizing bandits (or survivors) is a band-aid solution that doesn't address the core issue, if it even needs to be addressed at all.

With diversification of gameplay as we move to Beta and onward, people will have to find new ways to cope with problems introduced to them if they want to survive. Which will naturally encourage alliances, no matter how temporary.

[Suicide Mouse 50]

In case you guys forgot, this is already in the game.

You need two people to do blood transfussion, giving advantages to players with friends.

I'm sure rocket will put more stuff like that too.

This is going to happen, it's how it is, everything has advantages and disadvantages.

I don't see why you people can't understand that everything you do has bad and good side-effects... That's how the world is.

[hazdude222 0]

Two points:

1. It's not the "COD kiddies" who are complaining about the bandits, it's the RP guys. How many more people do you see posting about how they are fed up with "noobs" running around with a makarov killing everything.

2. Most bandits have far too high an opinion of themselves when, in reality, what they're doing sort of breaks the game (or at least in its current state). I'm all for bandits, but don't think you have some kind of god-given right to be an asshat to everyone without any penalties.

[FrIEND (DayZ) 9]

Bump..

[Reav 0]

Second that. I understand that people can not fully embrace the fact that this game is unfair to players it was designed to be unfair and it is going to get worse. Much worse. At least I hope so. That's what's fun about it. You survive against the adds, against all the zombies and crazy bandits. Also, if you follow some basic survival rules the adds are not overwealmingly against you.

[daedrick 90]

When people will stop spawning all at the same place mindless killing will be very diminished. See my signature for a suggestion that help to get rid of the problem of spawn killing and spawn zergling(players running straigh for major city gunning every new survivor they come across).

[i wub pugs 16]

Do you people need straws?

[joikd 25]

Pussification ideas are running rampant in the forum now. It's time for Rocket to turn up the heat and cull all of the ADD, cry baby, bunny hoppers, and send them back to their mommies for a diaper change. Or, just leave things be and let them wallow on the coast with each other.

[SilverWeed 0]

I've only been playing DayZ for a week, but I'm still struggling to see the advantage of being an bandit. I've been killed by a few, sure, but I only blamed myself for those deaths. And those bandits usually didn't walk away any healthier or more alive than before...

Unless a bandit is in a group or has a sniper rifle which they had to earn, aren't they at a serious disadvantage in the DayZ world by taking on the only threat worse than the zombies? Maybe it's a bigger problem on the Expert and Veteran servers where you often have to obtain resources from other players, the server hopping keeps me away from those anyway since I assume those players gear up on Regular and camp key destinations before switching.

TL DR: I would prefer adding/improving survival gear rather than imposing penalties on bandits, like binoculars that don't feel like I'm putting on blinders while trying to balance on one toe. Better than having to walk right up street signs at least...

[Cutter888 3]

I don't get the problem here, Bandits on the coast killing players for beans? who cares, the coasts loot is nothing compared to what you find inland, and Chern and Electro are pretty much designated war zones. You go into either of those cities, you deserve to die. I've never stayed near the coast, and as such I've never seen a problem of these so called Death match killings. As soon as I spawn I get the hell away from the coast, here I can easily stay alive for days before I slip up and end up dying one way or another, the huge open expanses of the map leave you seeing very few other players.

I'll admit I've killed people, but I don't consider myself a bandit. I play with a group of friends (some of whom I've played alongside in various FPS's for a decade now, so we're quite a tight group) and we usually shoot on sight, is this what you consider death match killing? Yes we have a very aggressive stance, we know we usually have the upper hand in numbers and equipment and are usually found in very hostile areas such as Stary and NW airfield, we shoot to stay alive, but we scavenge for loot just like every one else, which is how we gained our equipment advantage to begin with.

[Jorden 63]

I personally play as a friendly survivor. I help when I can, I trade when I have extra. This creates a balance between people who kill to survive, and those who can rely on others when in trouble.

This tactic isn't seen a lot, but the more people who approach this play style can definitely change the way player interactions take place in DayZ.

[miqueloz 33]

Maybe it's a bigger problem on the Expert and Veteran servers where you often have to obtain resources from other players' date=' the server hopping keeps me away from those anyway since I assume those players gear up on Regular and camp key destinations before switching.

[/quote']

Hm? Looting isn't any harder on Expert/Veteran servers.