Implications of the Arma2 weapon nerf - really that bad?

[tarquinbb 28]

I know this has been discussed (cried over) to death already, with tonnes of negative feedback.

However, after thinking about it, do we really need an immediate patch to reverse the changes?

I'm a believer in the philosophy that a change doesn't necessarily have to be balanced or realistic, as long as it's fun. Obviously you take them into consideration, especially if the game is based on realism and/or competitiveness. However, extreme realism and competitiveness translates to extreme boring and lack of variation.

The damage nerf will have a noticible impact on zombie killing (and player killing) with certain guns, but it seems that relative to one another, the weapons are actually more balanced, for example shotguns - and that adds to variation and imo more fun i.e. a GOOD change.

I don't want to go too in-depth here, so I'll just give some brief points outlining why imo it's not such a disastrous change.

1) lee enfield is no longer REDICULOUSLY strong or super loud (good & realistic balance change)

2) shotgun slugs now actually deal (substantially) more damage than a .45 (good & realistic balance change)

3) .45 is no longer the only viable sidearm type, damage brought closer to other sidearms (good & arguably realistic balance change)

4) ak74 (and variations) are now a bit weaker than m4a1 (and variations including m16) (arguably a good balance change because ak is more common, but not fully realistic because i think ak74 and m4a1 have almost identical 'stopping power' IRL)

The damage system is obviously not final, and I'm not sure where rocket wants to go with regards to 'how many shots to down a zombie/player' etc, but where's the harm in making some of the 'obsolete' weapons more viable?

(a nice weapon damage table can be found at dayzdb http://dayzdb.com/da...apon-comparison)

Edited July 29, 2012 by tarquinbb

[peacemonkclan acheron 2]

The .45 pistols could still use a buff, maybe not one hit kills anymore, but two shot, since the makorov is only 3, like when i use my ak-74 sometimes one hit kills the zeds, other times it takes two, i feel like that would be a good power for a pistol. Though the .45 acp round is pretty large, i mean that's 45 caliber, so it would have pretty good stopping power, and right now its accuracy is only decent. Since it is a pistol, perhaps they could revert to the old power levels but make all the pistols less accurate, giving more advantages to weapons with stocks.

[CarloNord 29]

I only really hate the Enfield nerf, everything else I'm fine with.

[Ozelot (DayZ) 394]

It does not take four or more shots in real life to kill someone with a fourty five. Do your research. They are supposed to be handcannons.

[tarquinbb 28]

It does not take four or more shots in real life to kill someone with a fourty five. Do your research. They are supposed to be handcannons.

it usually does not take four or more shots in real life to kill someone with a 9mm. what is your point?

the amount of stopping power to kill a living infected 'zombie' is contestable. i would argue that if you can kill them with a guaranteed single .45, then it should NOT require a guaranteed 4 x 9mm rounds. it should be more like two, to be a viable alternative to the .45 instakill shot.

HOWEVER. if the infected are crazy, already suped-up on epinephrine or whatever and don't feel pain or emotion, it's not unthinkable that they don't die instantly if your 1-2 initial body shots were unfortunate to miss the vitals... like maybe the heart and spinal cord would be near instant death.

the UNREALISTIC (lol, referring to the human physiology/ergonomics - not the realism of zombies) thing is that they don't fly backwards a couple of meters after taking a .45 shot at point blank - but that would be kinda hard to implement at this stage.

Edited July 29, 2012 by tarquinbb

[bobtom 10]

Question: Does the weapon nerf apply to the entirety of ArmA 2 CO or just the DayZ mod?

[Ozelot (DayZ) 394]

the amount of stopping power to kill a living infected 'zombie' is contestable. i would argue that if you can kill them with a guaranteed single .45, then it should NOT require a guaranteed 4 x 9mm rounds. it should be more like two, to be a viable alternative to the .45 instakill shot.

You have no idea what you are talking about, lol.

The reason a .45 'insta-kills' things in real life is because the stopping power and velocity of the round tend to produce what is known as 'hydro-static shock' in the body that it passes through. People don't nessecarily die instantly from the shot, but it almost always puts them down on the ground because their body enters a sort of catonic state of shock. They then usually end up dying later due to lack of medical attention.

9mms do not have the stopping power and slower velocity speed required to produce this effect, usually, and because of that people very often DO take full clips of 9mm ammo only to keep on trucking.

If the zombies don't die from .45 caliber rounds instantly, then they shouldn't be dying from all the OTHER high-powered weapons in the game instantly. They should require a full clip of anything up to the AS50.

Edited July 29, 2012 by Ozelot

[CarloNord 29]

Question: Does the weapon nerf apply to the entirety of ArmA 2 CO or just the DayZ mod?

Arma, it's a patch for the game.

[bobtom 10]

I see. Because I haven't noticed this supposed nerfing yet, so it must not be that bad.

[spartan029 0]

The bizon is worthless now.

[FrankDaTank1218 (DayZ) 41]

This nerf should only apply to Dayz, not ARMA 2 entirely.

[Swineflew 480]

It does not take four or more shots in real life to kill someone with a fourty five. Do your research. They are supposed to be handcannons.

I failed to find any valid zombie related .45 information on the internets.

You should report this to the video game police immediately and tell them this is a breach of realism.

[thehumandove 344]

Yes, the nerf sucks. Rocket's looking into fixing it.

[Ozelot (DayZ) 394]

I failed to find any valid zombie related .45 information on the internets.

You should report this to the video game police immediately and tell them this is a breach of realism.

Oh, I forgot to mention it takes ELEVEN shots to kill a survivor with a .45 now.

[bobtom 10]

Oh, I forgot to mention it takes ELEVEN shots to kill a survivor with a .45 now.

Obviously depending on where you hit him/her and how far away, etc.

[Swineflew 480]

Oh, I forgot to mention it takes ELEVEN shots to kill a survivor with a .45 now.

I'd suggest using a rifle then.

[tarquinbb 28]

You have no idea what you are talking about, lol.

The reason a .45 'insta-kills' things in real life is because the stopping power and velocity of the round tend to produce what is known as 'hydro-static shock' in the body that it passes through. People don't nessecarily die instantly from the shot, but it almost always puts them down on the ground because their body enters a sort of catonic state of shock. They then usually end up dying later due to lack of medical attention.

9mms do not have the stopping power and slower velocity speed required to produce this effect, usually, and because of that people very often DO take full clips of 9mm ammo only to keep on trucking.

If the zombies don't die from .45 caliber rounds instantly, then they shouldn't be dying from all the OTHER high-powered weapons in the game instantly. They should require a full clip of anything up to the AS50.

but .45 ammo is ten a penny.

you probably found 500 x .45's in the time it takes you to find a single mag for the cz550 etc.

there's a clear line where any more realism is counteracting the FUN. making some of the most common guns in the game far more powerful than some of the most rare guns in the game is certainly crossing that line.

requiring 12 shots to kill a survivor is stupid, yes. but you're in the wrong thread if you want to whine about that.

Edited July 29, 2012 by tarquinbb

[Ozelot (DayZ) 394]

but .45 ammo is ten a penny.

you probably found 500 x .45's in the time it takes you to find a single mag for the cz550 etc.

there's a clear line where any more realism is counteracting the FUN. making some of the most common guns in the game far more powerful than some of the most rare guns in the game is certainly crossing that line.

requiring 12 shots to kill a survivor is stupid, yes. but you're in the wrong thread if you want to whine about that.

M1911 ammo and the gun itself are very common in real life. It's common because it's a really good gun. It should be everywhere.

On the other hand, a flintlock pistol would be almost impossible to find. Does that mean it should be the most powerful gun in the game if it was put in?

Take the rocket launcher for example. It's extremely hard to find, yet it's mostly useless. Rarity =/= usefulness. This isn't an MMO.

[a_casual_banana 38]

Jesus, it makes me mad sometimes.

But, I like it. Makes the game challenging.

[Bludy 324]

if you headshot zombies it's still one shot kill, this nerf made me care more about the aim when shooting infected. with players i don't know..the aks make the job done fast and clear.

and didn't quote the guy above, but 7.62 ammo of the ak has more stopping power than a 5.56 of m serie.

headshot with gun, does kill a player in one shot?

and last, don't forget than you don't always find a 12000blood player :-)

[FrankDaTank1218 (DayZ) 41]

Here the issues with this nerf:

-There is NO NEED to make the nerf apply to vanilla Arma, that's stupid and counter-intuitive

-This games is supposed to be realistic, now guys can shrug of 9mm's? Bullshit.

-The guns shouldn't have gotten a nerf. Zombie health should have had a buff, that way combat against other players is realistic, pistol calibers are still viable, but zombies are still no longer pushovers.