RE: Private Hives and 'The Rules' - (Update from Rocket inside)

[Anton17 97]

Aside from the obvious downfalls, I think these types of discussions and suggestions are exactly what the forums are intended for. We have two parties thinking coherently and presenting their opinions and facts about one objective and how it stems out into other areas. I'm pretty sure that posts like these are what are helpful in the development of the mod. If Rocket was at a stage where he was thinking if each server have its own individual database (to combat a lot of the issues the community has) then where else would he need to look, other than the responses to this thread?

That is, however, a tangent off from what I started the topic for. Although I have confirmation about the rules from several players here, a specific reply from staff that isn't copying and pasting rules would be most appreciated.

[Nalestom 116]

That is, however, a tangent off from what I started the topic for. Although I have confirmation about the rules from several players here, a specific reply from staff that isn't copying and pasting rules would be most appreciated.

Somebody in this thread posted a link to a post Rocket made where he essentially stated that he doesn't like the idea of "private servers" and that he claims it isn't helpful to the project in any shape or form, but that he can't do anything about it because nobody who plays DayZ has agreed to any EULA or Terms of Service in regards to the mod.

I agree with you. I think that there are certain aspects of the mod that Rocket shouldn't listen to the community's opinions about, and I think that there are certain aspects where the community's opinion should play a major role in.

I'll be honest. Do I think the idea of a private hive fits with Rocket's vision of DayZ? No, I don't think private hives are a good idea with DayZ. However, I do think that, at this point in the mod, private hives offer the sense of community and provide the proper environment to facilitate Rocket's vision for this mod. The challenge lies in how Rocket plans on porting that environment and community into the public hive.

Private hives will end up creating a war between server communities. Server owners will be more concerned about how many unique players they have on a daily basis as opposed to the actual quality of their servers and databases. DayZ was most definitely created with a public hive in mind, and I think that a public hive would be an absolutely beautiful thing to have, provided that a community can be built among groups of players.

For example, wouldn't it be absolutely fascinating if certain servers had factions and politics of their own? If large groups of players formed private armies of sorts and set up their own economy and conquered towns and countrysides, warring against other private armies? That would revolutionize the survival aspect of the game, especially if zombies are transformed into a real threat.

[orb917@hotmail.com 117]

The most difficult part of bug-fixing isn't diagnosing what's causing the bug; the most difficult part is combing through hundreds upon hundreds of lines of code to find the one misplaced parenthesis that is screwing everything up. My participation in the main hive servers would do nothing but add a single additional player for hackers to toy with. Also, my participation in the main hive servers does not help Rocket catch hackers at all, nor does my lack of participation hinder it. There is no logical basis behind that argument.

sorry, when i say flaws i don't necessarily mean just bugs. i should have been more clear. i mean any sort of flaws in gameplay mechanics or exploitations that could arise due to said gameplay mechanics or hive stuff, as well as bugs. what i'm saying is that you could be a data point that helps the project by adding data to their set so they can then look at statistics and make informed decisions about any number of things. hiding in private servers gives no data to them, it's purely selfish (i do understand why people would be driven there though), and you trying to say that you're just one person is not a particularly strong argument as many people use the same argument to justify their decision as well. the more people with that attitude the less real data the developers will have to work with regarding the future direction of the mod. right now they're actively compiling alt-f4 data as an example so they can develop a solution to this that's based on real data and not just people complaining on the forums. the hive essentially helps them cut through the bullshit. so yeah, you're enhancing your own experience, but at the expense of the project and the real data vital to it moving forward.

[Nalestom 116]

sorry, when i say flaws i don't necessarily mean just bugs. i should have been more clear. i mean any sort of flaws in gameplay mechanics or exploitations that could arise due to said gameplay mechanics or hive stuff, as well as bugs. what i'm saying is that you could be a data point that helps the project by adding data to their set so they can then look at statistics and make informed decisions about any number of things. hiding in private servers gives no data to them, it's purely selfish (i do understand why people would be driven there though), and you trying to say that you're just one person is not a particularly strong argument as many people use the same argument to justify their decision as well. the more people with that attitude the less real data the developers will have to work with regarding the future direction of the mod. right now they're actively compiling alt-f4 data as an example so they can develop a solution to this that's based on real data and not just people complaining on the forums. the hive essentially helps them cut through the bullshit. so yeah, you're enhancing your own experience, but at the expense of the project and the real data vital to it moving forward.

As I've said, the only difference between the private hive server I play on and the hive servers is the source of the database. Everything else (with the exception of a much more robust anti-cheat on the private server) is exactly the same. Because everything else is the same, I can effectively comment on flaws in gameplay mechanics and bugs. You're right about Rocket being unable to see who is and isn't Alt+F4ing in our servers, as well as a few other key statistics, but we take care of the Alt+F4ing and ghosting in our servers by ensuring that those people never play on the server again. Also, because I DO play on hive servers occasionally, I am serving as a data point. I don't play exclusively on non-hive servers.

[orb917@hotmail.com 117]

As I've said, the only difference between the private hive server I play on and the hive servers is the source of the database. Everything else (with the exception of a much more robust anti-cheat on the private server) is exactly the same. Because everything else is the same, I can effectively comment on flaws in gameplay mechanics and bugs. You're right about Rocket being unable to see who is and isn't Alt+F4ing in our servers, as well as a few other key statistics, but we take care of the Alt+F4ing and ghosting in our servers by ensuring that those people never play on the server again. Also, because I DO play on hive servers occasionally, I am serving as a data point. I don't play exclusively on non-hive servers.

see that's the main problem. people say lots of things here. do you trust what i have to say about anything, especially regarding the entire future direction of the mod? people can rattle things off all day, but if you have statistics compiled from hundreds of thousands of data points, that paints a picture that will be significantly closer to reality than twenty people who just got spawn camped coming onto the forums and saying "everyone is spawn camping, this game is terrible, it's a major problem, address this immediately, everyone is leaving!"

that, to me, is one of the most destructive things about private servers. sure they may give you a better gaming experience, but what's it really doing for future updates? is it helping to make the mod be developed in the right direction? should rocket really be listening to what amounts to a small fraction of the user base who post on the forums or looking at a huge dataset and analyzing it to see what the data says? also, i'm glad you mix it up and play on the hive servers.

[Dekey (DayZ) 31]

It's a mod. There's no EULA. You can do whatever you want with it.

If you don't like private servers, don't play on them. Their existence will have pratically zero baring on the development of DayZ. They might even contribute positively considering HiveZ has turned into "Call of Modern Battlefield for Dead 7". Privates still work creatively with this mod in my experience, and generate some really creative ideas within the mod.

Also "we" fixed helicopters 2 builds ago. Just sayin'

Edited July 30, 2012 by Dekey

[Nalestom 116]

that, to me, is one of the most destructive things about private servers. sure they may give you a better gaming experience, but what's it really doing for future updates? is it helping to make the mod be developed in the right direction? should rocket really be listening to what amounts to a small fraction of the user base who post on the forums or looking at a huge dataset and analyzing it to see what the data says?

Well, like I said, whether or not Rocket should listen to us depends entirely on what the issue is. Sometimes, it's necessary to look at the data, and sometimes, it's necessary to listen to people.

Designing a game based entirely off of data is why games are shitty these days. If Rocket looks at the data and sees that 80% of all players die within 200-300 meters of the coast, he'll hopefully say, "Well, tough luck, welcome to DayZ." If a major gaming studio looks at the data and sees that 80% of all players die within 200-300 meters of the coast, they'll implement a massive spawn protection system and safe areas inside of cities, regardless of whether or not it's a good idea for the overall design of the game.

Data is good for analyzing things such as item distribution and rarity throughout databases, average deaths by zombie, average session time per player, and so on. When it comes to tweaking key gameplay mechanics, such as whether or not third-person should be globally disabled, it would be best for Rocket to make his own decision based entirely off of how he wants DayZ to play and what he considers fair advantages over other players. When it comes to redesigning things such as tents and item storage, it would be best for Rocket to discuss it with the community and get the playerbase's input, since they're the ones who are playing the game.

See what I mean? It all depends on what the mod developer sees his game becoming.

[TheStoryteller01 12]

As an MMO veteran (I still have my EQ1 toons), I understand the problem of those preferring their "bubble servers".

I play BF4F too but would never count it as an MMO, while dayz comes close (for me at least). And I start to miss the feeling of continuity I usually have playing on "my" MMO server knowing the playerbase a bit, having a friends/ignore list and generally being able to organize something. When the game will become stand-alone I will definitely look for a community with their private server to play and develop my character, not just gearwise but also as a RP.

[VitaminK 6]

It's a mod. There's no EULA. You can do whatever you want with it.

If you don't like private servers, don't play on them. Their existence will have pratically zero baring on the development of DayZ. They might even contribute positively considering HiveZ has turned into "Call of Modern Battlefield for Dead 7". Privates still work creatively with this mod in my experience, and generate some really creative ideas within the mod.

Also "we" fixed helicopters 2 builds ago. Just sayin'

This. I run a private myself and we have quite a few regulars but mostly its new players who just got the game or are trying it out and we get to help them out a lot. I would rather new players experience that first then got on a official hive server and get owned like 10 times immediately by some vet server hoppers.

There are a few others big reasons I prefer private but those have been listed in this thread already and I'm too lazy to type them back out.

[jetao2008@hotmail.com 175]

Private server :

NO server hopping

COMBAT DC = BAN

HACKERS = maybe 1-2 in a month

FRIENDLY community

LESS TIMES wasted on Loading screen

GAIN respect , or be hated due your deed.

Rockets hive :

Hackers

Combat DC

Server Hop

Waste all day wait all day on loading screen

Noone knows you or gives a fuck who you are

I had a friend who was able to kill everyone in a server with one command or spawn F35 , Apache etc... He was able to hack on Rockets Hive server but when he tried entering the Private server I was playing , he was automaticlly kicked from the server .

I was writing a comment but then i saw your post.

That's exactly why i play on a private hive server at the moment.

It's by far the best way to avoid hackers and server hoppers, and i'm having a great time.

It's doesn't affect AT ALL my ability to test the game and to report in the forums what i found, giving my suggestions if necessary.

[VitaminK 6]

I was writing a comment but then i saw your post.

That's exactly why i play on a private hive server at the moment.

It's by far the best way to avoid hackers and server hoppers, and i'm having a great time.

It's doesn't affect AT ALL my ability to test the game and to report in the forums what i found, giving my suggestions if necessary.

Hopefully if enough people come to realize this then rocket might come to change his view on the subject. Although kind of doubt it.

[Jimmy James 18]

To all of you who are against private hives, how does their existence affect you?

Is it just the idea of it that offends you? I only play hive servers but can definitely see the appeal of having your character bound to one server.

[disorder 344]

That quote doesn't mean what you think it means.

And what do you think that I think it means?

Insanity is a delusional state of mind. I made that reference to the 'grand experiment' that Rocket is conducting and the fact that so many people want to play it a different way. It is insanity that people keep trying to play the game in its current form and metaphorically bash their heads against a brick wall by doing so. So many people want PVE and so many people want Private Hives. They are all potential customers, why not make them happy too?

Is it just the idea of it that offends you? I only play hive servers but can definitely see the appeal of having your character bound to one server.

Like MMOs and they function pretty well without server hoppers ruining it for others.

Edited July 30, 2012 by disorder

[`Orum 17]

...right now, we're testing this, trying to help rocket gather data, if you're playing somewhere he can't gather data, then you're hindering the project.

Rocket himself said he wants a authentic experience. Server hopping and alt-f4'ing are not authentic, so if anything, by playing on a private hive with only one server you're actually playing the game the way it was intended. So, what's more important? Helping Rocket "gather data", or playing the game it was intended to be played? In my mind, the latter.

sure, you can make all these anecdotal evidence arguments, but unless you present actual valid data sets it's all ultimately meaningless.

Valid data sets on what, exactly? Rocket could honestly spend his entire time just fixing glitches in the game from now until a standalone comes out, and he still wouldn't fix everything. Even if he needs player data, there are still the vast majority of players playing on hive servers. I've had way more engaging, interesting gameplay on non-hive servers than I have ever had on a hive server--and I've only played on non-hive servers for a fraction of the time I've played on hive servers.

[Lin (DayZ) 22]

Rocket said he might loosen the grip on server rules. He made the hive to show that DayZ can be a MMO format. He even said private server are a good way to fight hackers, do Machinima, and help with streamers.

[Aveal 1]

Beside the well known pros for non hive servers like

-less dcing

-no serverhopping

-less cheater

-a real community

-admins that are able to administrate etc

there are also things like fixing the tentbug before the offical fix or having scripts that shutdown most of the arma 2 stuff (meaning tanks,jets etc cant even be spawned on that server)

i dont know what has happened to the dayz mod, but since things are only going sideways, i ld say rocket is focusing on the standalone and only invest a very small time at the current mod.

Things must be really messed up when private servers offering better service than the offical ones.

[boatie 34]

Thanks for all the post guys and gals. I am going to give these private server a chance now. So many problems exists with the main hive that seem beyond Rocket or the dayz's current ability to solve. This sounds like a good temp solution until the stand alone comes out.

Here is my summary of why private servers are a good alternative:

1. Server admin actually can do something about hackers. On the normal dayz server, they can do nothing and it seems that Rocket is also powerless to do anything. With greater admin control, easier to identify and ban hackers. If there is admin abuse, just pick another private server.

2. No server hopping. The solutions that rocket has talked about seem pathetic (monitor, warn and ban) will not solve anything.

3. No ghosting. Tactical play and teamwork will actually pay off now. You don't have guys magically appearing 100 meters behind you. Then the true fun of dayz will come back.

4. The dayz hive, because of the crazy popularity of dayz, is a quivering mess. Duping, desync, lag, alot of these issues are related to a main hive that is overwhelmed. In fact, Rocket needs to at least consider creating regional main hives, such as 1 for North America, 1 for Europe, etc. Currently its a mess.

5. Reduce metagaming, such as hoarding all cars. People can work together to get at the hoarders and have fun experiencing all facets of the game.

6. Private servers allows for variance to local settings, so you can pick and use servers that have options you like, such as side chat, alt-f4 banning.

Edited August 3, 2012 by boatie

[tuleg1t 50]

problem i have with these servers is there is hardly anyone on any of them.. maybe 25 people at most.

[TimKuchiki 9]

Still waiting for someone to recommend a good private server with a constant of 40-50 people. I'd be all over that.

[tuleg1t 50]

Still waiting for someone to recommend a good private server with a constant of 40-50 people. I'd be all over that.

Yea that is what im saying. You just don't get very much player interaction really, and too me that's what Dayz is all about.

[Medic Austin 23]

This thread makes me so sad to see the direction dayz could head.

I can't explain it better than rocket has multiple times.

You're taking a groundbreaking game that has a legit chance at success and showing him that it doesn't work and only games that don't really penalize you for making mistakes or playing dumb can succeed.

Instead of letting players balance the game (politics of a post apocalyptic society is what I think rocket calls it) themselves you cut yourself off from the populace and defy that whole concept of the game. You're not really interested in the evolution of player interaction or how the games progresses at all. You only care about your server and forget everything else.

All I can hope for is that people like you don't ruin this game for the people who want to play it the way it was intended and that he sticks with the "core" of his vision for the game.

Nature tends to lead towards entropy, if you or Rocket happened to forget.

Cutting one's self from the populace? I'm pretty sure that's natural too.

In real life, if you don't like the people you live around, you move.

If you don't like the country you live, you move.

Think about how the countries rapidly began popping up and empires started taking over.

Think about how the United Staes of America was formed.

People didn't like where they were at, so they left the populace and did their own thing.

Nature always leans towards entropy, get used to it.

[Aveal 1]

just do me a favour, if anyone here is tempted to name a good priv server, pls do it over PM. otherwise there will be a shitstorm of hackers on your server.

[kexy 7]

The reason people want to play on these servers is legit far too many hackers that are killing servers. The game isn't fun when you die from some invisible guy, teleported into the air, or blown up buy a invincible guy. If some small communities want to play on a private server with players they trust and it doesn't affect official servers it shouldn't be a big deal. Remember this is a beta and some people want to actually play this game how it's intended but with how some servers are with the problems that is impossible now these problems would most likely or hopefully go away with standalone.The clan I am in were going to look into a DayZ server but our box can't handle the bandwidth which sucks as were are zombie game fanatics (Have Zombie Panic Source and Killing Floor servers had L4D, L4D2, and No More Room In Hell). So if any private server group is looking for more players that don't cheat, follow server rules, and are semi-mature we'd be down. willing to interview

Edited August 3, 2012 by Kex

[Anton17 97]

I'm not recommending any private hives, even though there's two that I frequent, since the reason they've managed to maintain somewhat successful running and experience is down to not advertising them like this.

SInce I let this thread die over 3 days ago, it shows people do want this as an option. I did, however, see two hackers on a private hive yesterday (although they were strangely friendly and offered me weapons) and about 10 minutes after I interacted with them (refused and walked on) the server admin, who was online, rebooted the server (even without the 'no message received' sign) and we were brought back to the lobby, only me, one other person and the admin. I can only assume they were all banned.

If that doesn't make you want to use private hives given the current situation then I don't know what will.

Edited August 3, 2012 by Anton17

[darthbro303 7]

I play primarily on a non-hive server, simply because I needed a little bit more experience with the mod before venturing into hive servers - similarly to your scenario. However, now that I've played for a few weeks on this non-hive server, I really don't have a lot of motivation to leave. The thing that hive servers lack is a sense of community. Since there's only a handful of servers that share the private database, you become quickly acquainted with who's a bandit, who's a friendly, and who is part of which group. We've had multiple small wars between campsites thus far, and I can confidently say that I'm having the time of my life.

If I had decided to stick with hive servers, I may just have quit the game after a few days of fruitlessly trying to become acquainted with the mod. Fortunately, I discovered the non-hive servers.

This sounds pretty cool actually im sure the game would be alot more like this on the normal servers but you have to constantly switch servers because hackers will completely fuck a server.